I do believe Peter did know something was up due to his changed facial reaction
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Who would win in a fight: MCU Cap or Raimi Spider-Man?
- Thread starter Wrapped in Black
- Start date
I always chalk up that kind of stuff to superhero's entire physical systems being "super" and not just their muscles. I mean otherwise these heroes would be destroying their own bodies with everything that they can do. Judging overall strength by extrapolating from his grip strength is sort of hard to do as well for the same reason. Because these heroes didn't actually work out to gain their strength. LIke, one would assume from the way he travels that Spidey gets a serious grip strength workout nearly all day everyday... but does his body even benefit from working out? Does Cap's?
When it's all said and done these kinds of comparisons are weird things to try to do because of inconsistencies even within their own movies. Though I do find this particular topic of Tobey-Spidey v Cap interesting it's really hard to find scenes where they can be compared because for every major feat shown, there's usually several scenes that undercut them as well. So I can't really call it one way or the other in a situation like this.
I appreciate your posts in response to mine. It's been fun thinking about all the various factors that come into play in these scenes. Thank you for engaging my statements from similar ground.
But ya'll saying Raimi Spiderman has the edge over Super Soldier Serum MCU cap cause of his spider senses so how come Green Goblin trashes him about, and he's no soldier or trained fighter.
You're breaking down all these fight scenes but none of it is explaining why his spider senses stops him from being hit aside from the very last fight when the plot demanded Goblin kill himself.
Honestly it looks more like Tobey Maquire forgot to skip a beat.I do believe Peter did know something was up due to his changed facial reaction
People always have selective memories when it comes down to VS arguments.
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queens is still real
brooklyn's basically mini manhattan now with overpriced hipster eateries with mass produced food and the locals being priced out. feels manufactured like, Cap from a science chamber
Queens still has the organic friendly neighborhoods for our friendly neighborhood spider-man with organic webs. it's still true new york
The strength comparisons are throwing me a bit, in my opinion brute strength by itself doesn't really matter against heroes who routinely go up against enemies way stronger than them.
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I like they ended the main part of the trailer on a character in peril rather than an explosion in a setpiece.
The cool Cap moment worked though.
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I like they ended the main part of the trailer on a character in peril rather than an explosion in a setpiece.
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Thats actually a thing in the comics. When Ock got into Spidey's body he was shocked how much Peter pulls his punches and how hard he could fuck people up if he didnt.
Yup, these 'who would beat who' things are always a bit weird because of the inconsistencies. Fun. But weird. I highly doubt people who make the movies (or comic books) think to themselves: "Well, we've set an upper limit to Spider-Man's strength at 35.000 pounds. So that means we'll have to use six metro cars in stead of seven, and they can't go faster than 56,7 miles per hour. (numbers pulled from my arse). I think it's more like: "Does this look really cool? Yup. Okay, we could go with that. Is it sort of in the ballpark of how strong he should be? Yeah? Okay, awesome!" Problem is then that nerds on the internet actually take stuff from the movies really seriously ;)
I do think Cap is shown quite consistent though. I haven't seen him do any stuff that's extremely out of ballpark. Even people pointing at him versus Thanos at the end of Infinity War. My read is that Thanos was just pushing him aside to get to the last stone (since Thanos was not shown to be needlessly cruel, oddly enough) and Cap put up more than a fight than Thanos was expecting. After that Thanos just casually swatted Cap away. There was no 'going toe to toe'.
And yup, you to :) Thinking about this stuff is fun, though you can get a bit carried away with it. I've read somewhere how much weight could stick to a square inch on Spidey's hands, and I thought about incorporating that into his grip strength...but that seemed like a good place to draw the line :p
As for other weird inconsistent stuff in comic book movies... random thought: I was thinking about Ant-Man and the explanation of how Pym particles worked. And if I'm not mistaken it was the shrinking of the space between atoms? Meaning mass and weight would remain the same, but just on a much smaller surface. So when he fought Falcon in the grass outside Avengers headquarters in Ant-Man you'd have the weight of a 170 (or something) pound guy standing on the surface of like two square mm. Meaning he would just keep sinking in to the soil until he'd hit something with a high enough density...
Anyyyway, some shit just doesn't make sense, despite it being awesome.
I don't believe that Raimi Spiderman has the edge over MCU Cap because of the Spidey Sense, I believe that he has a strength/speed advantage, I believe his durability is an advantage, I believe that his webs are an advantage, I believe that his wall-crawling is an advantage, and I believe that his Spidey Sense is an advantage. Cap has the advantage of "Is an excellent fighter while Spiderman is a terrible one." On the balance of individual advantages, I believe that Cap (unarmed) has the overall advantage at close range, while Spiderman has the overall advantage at a distance.
If Spiderman gets close to Cap, Cap's superior fighting ability will win out against Spiderman's superior strength and speed, but Spiderman is fast, and his Spidey Sense does help him dodge (it doesn't make him perfect, but it is superhuman), so Cap is going to miss with a bunch of his punches and kicks, but some are definitely going to get through and connect (because Cap is no slouch when it comes to speed, and he knows how to use it). But once Cap's punches do get through, they're not going to do much more than cause Spiderman some pain, since Spiderman's durability is so crazy high.
I posted the breakdown of the Goblin fights to hopefully show how the Spidey Sense was a factor that works in Spidey's favor in fights, and how/why Spiderman was getting hit with punches from the Goblin.
In Fight #1, Goblin stopped Spiderman's very first punch and kicked Spiderman. That's clearly because Spiderman underestimated Goblin. Spiderman threw a normal, human-strength punch. Then Goblin gets his ass handed to him for the rest of the fight, only punching Spiderman while Spiderman was busy saving Mary Jane. Against Goblin's glider, Spiderman punched through steel like it was paper, and then ripped the glider's steel heart out with his fingers. Spiderman absolutely holds back.
Fight #2, Spiderman is beaten by sleep gas.
Fight #3, Spiderman's Spidey Sense should've been lighting up like a Christmas Tree, and Spiderman ignored that it was saying that he should be careful of the person he was trying to save. That's if it even works as a danger detector, as maybe it just lets him "see" omni-directionally when there is danger (and Goblin tricked him head-on). Regardless, Spiderman used his Spidey Sense along with his crazy agility/flexibility to beat the mass of spinning blades (not perfectly, mind you) and then handed Goblin's ass to him again.
Fight #4, Spiderman got treated like a punching bag because he was saving a bunch of kids. He took all of those punches, deliberately, because saving the hostages was more important than dodging.
Fight #4.5, as an extension of the beating Spiderman willingly took in fight #4, Spiderman is off balance, he tanks a literal grenade to his unarmored face (remember that scene when young Steve Rogers tried to tank a fake grenade? Do you really think that Super Soldier Cap wants to try doing that for reals?) and then got punched a lot before he could regain his balance. And then Spiderman got serious and overpowered the shit out of Goblin.
Spidey Sense saving Spiderman from Goblin's final attack was no mere plot contrivance, it was a perfect setup and payoff. You don't try and attack Spiderman from behind, because he has a Spidey Sense and your sneak attack won't work the way it does on other people.
Bumping to randomly point out... Spiderman specs from a leaked Marvel-Sony contract!
Sony contract
a. Spider-Sense. Spider-Man's Spider-Sense alerts him to hidden threats and danger. This precognitive ability helps him to act instinctively, avoiding danger and the impact from objects (fists/feet, bullets, moving objects, environmental risks, etc.) as well as warning him of disguised enemies. Spider-Man's Spider-Sense also assists in his accuracy when operating his web-shooters and can act like radar in the darkness or if Spider-Man is blinded. He is also able to detect certain radio frequencies (used for his Spider-tracers). Spider-Sense also warns Spider-Man or his alter ego (e.g., Peter Parker) of possible danger to or exposure of his secret identity and warns him of danger to those to whom his is emotionally attached (e.g., Aunt May, Mary Jane or Gwen) or to those in his reasonable proximity (e.g., within a radius of 50 miles). It is permissible to depict a visual or audio manifestation of Spider-Man/Peter Parker being warned by his Spider-Sense (e.g., eyes turn green, twitching ears or buzzing sound).
b. Super-Human-Strength. Spider-Man has the proportionate strength of a spider. This means he can lift or press approximately 10 tons. Spider-Man's Spider-Strength allows his attacks against foes to be far more damaging than a normal human being.
c. Super-Human-Jumping Ability. Spider-Man has the proportionate jumping ability of a spider. This means he can jump vertically approximately 5 stories (approximately 50 feet) and/or horizontally approximately the length of a city block (approximately 264 feet).
d. Super-Human-Agility. Spider-Man has superhuman agility. This means he can maneuver his limbs and joints at speeds and angles and with flexibility greater than that of an Olympic level athlete or contortionist and with a faster reaction time than a normal human being. Spider-Man's Agility gives him the ability to dodge bullets and acrobatically maneuver himself around opponents and dangerous objects.
e. Super-Human Speed and Reflexes. He is able to run at superhuman speeds for short distances (e.g., can overtake speeding cars) and has reflexes so fast that he can evade bullets – even from automatic weapons.
f. Super-Human-Durability. Spider-Man possesses superhuman durability. Spider-Man can be injured as any other human being, however as a result of his superhuman durability he is able to withstand severe punishment. Injuries which would be fatal or result in broken bones in normal human beings are not fatal and do not break Spider-Man's bones.
g. Super-Human-Metabolic Efficiency and Endurance and Healing Power. Spider-Man possesses superhuman metabolic efficiency and endurance. Spider-Man's superhuman endurance allows for extended periods of physical and mental exertion. His accelerated metabolism increases his tolerance to toxins, meaning a larger dose is needed to cause the intended effect and he recovers from the effects quickly. Spider-Man is capable of healing injuries faster and more extensively than ordinary humans, but is not invulnerable and can be hurt badly (e.g. a gunshot). Although he is still affected by disease and infection his recovery time is typically shorter than that of an ordinary human. He is even able to overcome what would seem to be permanent diseases, such as blindness or vampirism.
h. Super-Human Spider Metamorphoses. Spider-Man is vulnerable to further metamorphoses in which he might take on additional properties of a spider, such as growth of additional arms, development of spinnerets, etc.
i. Super-Human-Adherence. Spider-Man is able to stick to walls or ceilings and stick/climb on almost any surface. His Spider-Adherence allows for him stick to a surface as easily as most people can walk on the ground.
j. Super-Human Webbing. Spider-Man possesses organic or artificial web shooters which allow him to shoot strong adhesive webbing. Spider-Man's webbing allows him to swing from buildings, tie up villains, safely catch falling bystanders and use the fluid in various configurations for props and structures (such as shields, thrown balls, parachutes, trampolines, hang-gliders, etc.). Like a real spider, Spider-Man can feel vibrations in his web lines. He can use webbing between the arms and torso of his costume to glide or soar for long distances (like a hang-glider).
k. Super-Human-Balance. Spider-Man has superhuman balance and coordination and can maintain his equilibrium better than an Olympic level gymnast.
l. Super-Human-Fighting Skills. Spider-Man combines all of his Core Power's and Abilities to create a unique superhuman improvisational acrobatic freestyle fighting style that functionally encompasses the usage of his strength, speed, flexibility, wits, intelligence, and his "spider-sense", in order to work his strengths against his opponents' weaknesses
o. Additional Powers of Symbiote Black Costume. When Spider-Man/Peter Parker is wearing the symbiote black costume all of the foregoing powers are enhanced (e.g., he has greater strength, agility, etc.)
Sony contract
a. Spider-Sense. Spider-Man's Spider-Sense alerts him to hidden threats and danger. This precognitive ability helps him to act instinctively, avoiding danger and the impact from objects (fists/feet, bullets, moving objects, environmental risks, etc.) as well as warning him of disguised enemies. Spider-Man's Spider-Sense also assists in his accuracy when operating his web-shooters and can act like radar in the darkness or if Spider-Man is blinded. He is also able to detect certain radio frequencies (used for his Spider-tracers). Spider-Sense also warns Spider-Man or his alter ego (e.g., Peter Parker) of possible danger to or exposure of his secret identity and warns him of danger to those to whom his is emotionally attached (e.g., Aunt May, Mary Jane or Gwen) or to those in his reasonable proximity (e.g., within a radius of 50 miles). It is permissible to depict a visual or audio manifestation of Spider-Man/Peter Parker being warned by his Spider-Sense (e.g., eyes turn green, twitching ears or buzzing sound).
b. Super-Human-Strength. Spider-Man has the proportionate strength of a spider. This means he can lift or press approximately 10 tons. Spider-Man's Spider-Strength allows his attacks against foes to be far more damaging than a normal human being.
c. Super-Human-Jumping Ability. Spider-Man has the proportionate jumping ability of a spider. This means he can jump vertically approximately 5 stories (approximately 50 feet) and/or horizontally approximately the length of a city block (approximately 264 feet).
d. Super-Human-Agility. Spider-Man has superhuman agility. This means he can maneuver his limbs and joints at speeds and angles and with flexibility greater than that of an Olympic level athlete or contortionist and with a faster reaction time than a normal human being. Spider-Man's Agility gives him the ability to dodge bullets and acrobatically maneuver himself around opponents and dangerous objects.
e. Super-Human Speed and Reflexes. He is able to run at superhuman speeds for short distances (e.g., can overtake speeding cars) and has reflexes so fast that he can evade bullets – even from automatic weapons.
f. Super-Human-Durability. Spider-Man possesses superhuman durability. Spider-Man can be injured as any other human being, however as a result of his superhuman durability he is able to withstand severe punishment. Injuries which would be fatal or result in broken bones in normal human beings are not fatal and do not break Spider-Man's bones.
g. Super-Human-Metabolic Efficiency and Endurance and Healing Power. Spider-Man possesses superhuman metabolic efficiency and endurance. Spider-Man's superhuman endurance allows for extended periods of physical and mental exertion. His accelerated metabolism increases his tolerance to toxins, meaning a larger dose is needed to cause the intended effect and he recovers from the effects quickly. Spider-Man is capable of healing injuries faster and more extensively than ordinary humans, but is not invulnerable and can be hurt badly (e.g. a gunshot). Although he is still affected by disease and infection his recovery time is typically shorter than that of an ordinary human. He is even able to overcome what would seem to be permanent diseases, such as blindness or vampirism.
h. Super-Human Spider Metamorphoses. Spider-Man is vulnerable to further metamorphoses in which he might take on additional properties of a spider, such as growth of additional arms, development of spinnerets, etc.
i. Super-Human-Adherence. Spider-Man is able to stick to walls or ceilings and stick/climb on almost any surface. His Spider-Adherence allows for him stick to a surface as easily as most people can walk on the ground.
j. Super-Human Webbing. Spider-Man possesses organic or artificial web shooters which allow him to shoot strong adhesive webbing. Spider-Man's webbing allows him to swing from buildings, tie up villains, safely catch falling bystanders and use the fluid in various configurations for props and structures (such as shields, thrown balls, parachutes, trampolines, hang-gliders, etc.). Like a real spider, Spider-Man can feel vibrations in his web lines. He can use webbing between the arms and torso of his costume to glide or soar for long distances (like a hang-glider).
k. Super-Human-Balance. Spider-Man has superhuman balance and coordination and can maintain his equilibrium better than an Olympic level gymnast.
l. Super-Human-Fighting Skills. Spider-Man combines all of his Core Power's and Abilities to create a unique superhuman improvisational acrobatic freestyle fighting style that functionally encompasses the usage of his strength, speed, flexibility, wits, intelligence, and his "spider-sense", in order to work his strengths against his opponents' weaknesses
o. Additional Powers of Symbiote Black Costume. When Spider-Man/Peter Parker is wearing the symbiote black costume all of the foregoing powers are enhanced (e.g., he has greater strength, agility, etc.)
You are forgeting that Spidey a good guy. Feel pity for his enemies good guy.
