Why 3d audio is not more common?

[MillionIII]

I love me some good sounding games like battlefield and overwatch on the pc so I'm wondering why it's not more common to have 3d audio in games, it's one thing to have a good looking title but if the audio is great it can elevate the whole experience.

The Dolby atmos list is far too short, also it's weird that ac origins supports it and odyssey does not, same with battlefield 5 (apparently they use their own tech) crackdown 3 is the only 2019 game with support for atmos on the list. Edit:RE:2 too
While searching about it I noticed that ps4 games have 3d audio with the platinum headset but it seems to be exclusive just to that...

 

[Piccoro]

The 3D audio in the PSVR games is awesome, so yeah I would like for it to be more used.

 

[banter]

I agree, good audio can really transform a game. This is why I rarely play a game without using headphones. Also, knowing where sounds are coming from really immerses you in the game.

 

[Mifec]

rackdown 3 is the only 2019 game with support for it.

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Resident Evil 2 also has it.

 

[MillionIII]

Resident Evil 2 also has it.

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That's awesome then! I noticed how good the audio was in the demo

 

[J75]

Hellblade audio was great and it didn't require special equipment or headphones.

 

[Booker.DeWitt]

man, resident evil2 demo sounded amazing on my 5.1 HT set up.

 

[Mifec]

Hellblade audio was great and it didn't require special equipment or headphones.

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They used binaural mics to film it, they're great.

 

[RestEerie]

Every psvr game has 3d audio

 

[FutureLarking]

I'm confused as how Windows Sonic support works on Xbox One. Am I right in thinking if the game outputs in 5.1 or 7.1 with "proper" object positioning, Windows Sonic should downmix properly to stereo for Headphones? Or do the games output in Sonic's format with correct virtual positioning in the first place when headphones are involved? Obvs the latter would be better but I don't know anything D;

 

[Deleted member 862]

Microsoft have Windows Sonic at the platform level on Windows and Xbox. It seems to work quite well. I don't know if it's game dependent but it seems to work whenever I try it.

 

[Sonicfan059]

Yeah there are a small number of Sony exclusives that support it with the Platinum headset. Uncharted has it and so does Horizon.

 

[Deleted member 28962]

Virtualized surround sound has existed for many years. I'm pretty sure it's been a feature of directsound for a very long time, but the effect has never sounded good. I remember affordable Dolby Headphone processors being a thing around 2005 which sounded ok. I've been most impressed with Sony's virtualized surround sound; the Uncharted games on PS3 had it, and PSVR is by far the best implementation yet.

 

[Xtortion]

Xbox One can output Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos for Headphones, which I believe are both virtualized 3D audio solutions for headphones.

Question: when outputting either of these formats to headphones, should the game audio be set to headphones or surround sound (home theater)? And if the game has a native 3D audio option like Monster Hunter World or RE2, should that be enabled or disabled?

 

[Arkanius]

I'm confused as how Windows Sonic support works on Xbox One. Am I right in thinking if the game outputs in 5.1 or 7.1 with "proper" object positioning, Windows Sonic should downmix properly to stereo for Headphones? Or do the games output in Sonic's format with correct virtual positioning in the first place when headphones are involved? Obvs the latter would be better but I don't know anything D;

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There are two modes for Windows Sonic / Dolby Atmos to work

1) Game sends 3D Positional data, and Sonic/Dolby mixes the sound correctly
2) Game sends 5.1/7.1 data and Sonic/Dolby tries to use that instead of accurate 3D Positional data

The best case is 1), but there is a low implementation of the feature
2) is the most used case for Sonic/Atmos

 

[Ste]

It's actually called object based not 3d audio but yeah I agree as I have pretty much bought every game that has dolby atmos except overwatch.

Rise of the tomb raider and shadow of the tomb raider are my recent full game play throughs with it and I love it.

Battlefront 1 is my demo game to show off the technology.


Forza horizon 4 has unbelievable atmos when you do the big events as planes or whatever fly over your head so sounds great.

I'm also really looking forward to resident evil 2 remake as the demo sounded promising.

I'm assuming the price of the dolby atmos rights are too expensive or something even though Windows 10 and xbox have the ability to play the sound as standard. Anyway to find out the cost?

 

[No Depth]

Was actually impressed with Uncharted 4's 3D audioprofile for the plat headphones.

Sony has done fuck all with the tech since.

 

[Jeffrey Thoman]

From what I understand, true hardware audio acceleration support was ripped out of Windows after XP. It made MIDI composing more difficult than it needed to be, and frankly, helped sound cards become more and more irrelevant to the consumer. That's a big reason. The other reason is due to a focus on graphics and AI as opposed to aural budget. But hopefully Hellblade gets something changing in that direction!

 

[Xtortion]

There are two modes for Windows Sonic / Dolby Atmos to work

1) Game sends 3D Positional data, and Sonic/Dolby mixes the sound correctly
2) Game sends 5.1/7.1 data and Sonic/Dolby tries to use that instead of accurate 3D Positional data

The best case is 1), but there is a low implementation of the feature
2) is the most used case for Sonic/Atmos

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So basically, when using Sonic or Atmos for Headphones, you would want RE2's audio to be set to "headphones" with 3D audio turned on. For games without a 3D audio option baked in, you would want the sound to be set to surround sound/home theater or whatever else gets you 5.1/7.1 (instead of setting it to headphones) and the virtualization option will interpret it as best as possible, correct?

It's actually called object based not 3d audio but yeah I agree as I have pretty much bought every game that has dolby atmos except overwatch.

Rise of the tomb raider and shadow of the tomb raider are my recent full game play throughs with it and I love it.

Battlefront 1 is my demo game to show of the technology.


Forza horizon 4 has unbelievable atmos when you do the big events as planes or whatever fly over your head so sounds great.

I'm also really looking forward to resident evil 2 remake as the demo sounded promising.

I'm assuming the price of the dolby atmos rights are too expensive or something even though Windows 10 and xbox have the ability to play the sound as standard. Anyway to find out the cost?

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Think an Atmos Headphone license is $15 on Xbox.

 

[Arkanius]

So basically, when using Sonic or Atmos for Headphones, you would want RE2's audio to be set to "headphones" with 3D audio turned on. For games without a 3D audio option baked in, you would want the sound to be set to surround sound/home theater or whatever else gets you 5.1/7.1 (instead of setting it to headphones) and the virtualization option will interpret it as best as possible, correct?



Think an Atmos Headphone license is $15 on Xbox.

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Partially correct, because RE2 has its own binaural implementation which will clash with Sonic/Atmos, so you want to disable Sonic/Atmos for this particular case, and set Binaural to ON + Headphones in the RE2 settings

For every other game, set to 5.1/7.1 Surround and turn Sonic/Atmos on, which will then reinterpret the Surround signal into a Binaural one.

 

[Zafir]

Microsoft have Windows Sonic at the platform level on Windows and Xbox. It seems to work quite well. I don't know if it's game dependent but it seems to work whenever I try it.

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Unless they've fixed it(I'd love for that to be the case) Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos for Headphones doesn't work with most games on PC because it forces the windows setting to be Stereo, and unfortunately that setting is how the majority of games determine whether to output 5.1/7.1 instead of Stereo. If the game has an in game option to select surround sound as the output then it should work.

 

[Xtortion]

Partially correct, because RE2 has its own binaural implementation which will clash with Sonic/Atmos, so you want to disable Sonic/Atmos for this particular case, and set Binaural to ON + Headphones in the RE2 settings

For every other game, set to 5.1/7.1 Surround and turn Sonic/Atmos on, which will then reinterpret the Surround signal into a Binaural one.

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In theory, if a game supports traditional Atmos output through speakers, would enabling that option alongside Atmos for headphones produce the same effect as disabling Atmos for headphones and enabling 3D headphone audio in the game? Not sure if RE2 supports regular Atmos, but it would simplify things a bit to enable that instead of having to flip off Atmos for headphones just for that one game.

Thanks for the clarification btw.

 

[Arkanius]

Unless they've fixed it(I'd love for that to be the case) Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos for Headphones doesn't work with most games on PC because it forces the windows setting to be Stereo, and unfortunately that setting is how the majority of games determine whether to output 5.1/7.1 instead of Stereo. If the game has an in game option to select surround sound as the output then it should work.

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Something must have changed recently to be honest.
Games where I clearly have a prompt saying "Windows Sonic is currently in use" and it's using the 5.1/7.1 source:

Destiny 2
Subnautica
Svencoop

This never worked for me before in the past, and I'm using an ODAC which can only use "Stereo". These games had no relevant updates, so Microsoft must have changed something in the implementation to try to trick games to send the Surround signal if it exists.

 

[FuturaBold]

Sony doesn't support Dolby Atmos for games which is really frustrating. However Sony has Atmos sound bars and receivers so it doesn't make sense.
I guess Sony doesn't want to pay a licensing fee to Dolby?

 

[Xtortion]

Sony doesn't support Dolby Atmos for games which is really frustrating. However Sony has Atmos sound bars and receivers so it doesn't make sense.
I guess Sony doesn't want to pay a licensing fee to Dolby?

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Don't the Golds support 3D audio? Sony might have a proprietary solution and is limiting it to the Golds instead of all headphones at the system level. An Astro Mixamp with Dolby Headphone enabled has been my go to on PS4.

 

[bobeth]

I put a Xonar sound card in my PC, virtual surround works for 5.1 DD and 7.1 DD signals, works with pretty much any game..

 

[hmqgg]

Project Acoustics, check it.

 

[Garcia el Gringo]

I'm frustrated that Overwatch has added Windows Sonic support in December on top of the staple Dolby Atmos for headphones, exclusively for PC, while Xbox has gotten nada.

I felt this news post from Xbox in 2016 implied that Overwatch would support Dolby Atmos for headphones on Xbox One natively at some point soon, but in retrospect, I see the wording was very careful not to promise anything from their partners at Blizzard. I reach out to Blizzard every once in a while to ask about and request the feature on consoles.

Anyway, done ranting. When Dobly Atmos for headphones and Windows Sonic is supported on Xbox, or a game has its own spatial solution on any platform (s/o PSVR), I love it. I hope it becomes more common.

 

[Zafir]

Something must have changed recently to be honest.
Games where I clearly have a prompt saying "Windows Sonic is currently in use" and it's using the 5.1/7.1 source:

Destiny 2
Subnautica
Svencoop

This never worked for me before in the past, and I'm using an ODAC which can only use "Stereo". These games had no relevant updates, so Microsoft must have changed something in the implementation to try to trick games to send the Surround signal if it exists.

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I'll perhaps have another look.

I tried it sometime last year and just couldn't get it to work. I also use a DAC (Schiit Modi) that can only output stereo and I even tried using voicemeter to force 5.1 or 7.1 output like people suggest for that HeSuVi software.

In the end I just went back to setting my Soundblaster Z as the default in windows which has it's own virtual surround, and I output the stereo mix from that to the DAC when I want the virtual surround.

Don't the Golds support 3D audio? Sony might have a proprietary solution and is limiting it to the Golds instead of all headphones at the system level. An Astro Mixamp with Dolby Headphone enabled has been my go to on PS4.

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Sony does have their own solutions, yes. Not even just the Golds but they do a few different non-gaming headphones with their own solution. I got some MDR-HW700DS on a steep sale sometime back and they're practically the only headphones that'll decode LPCM 5.1/7.1, Dolby True HD or DTS HD Master into a virtual surround format from a console/bluray player. They're pretty good for movies and more cinematic games, though I think the default price for them is pretty steep - plus the box doesn't support hdmi 2.0 output so you'd have to buy something like an AVR Key to get the audio out to it without losing 4khdr.

 

[Gitaroo]

I think ps4 hardware is not capable of 3d sound is the main issue. You have to go through psvr breakout box or platinum headphone which has their down dedicated hardware for that. Sony really screwed up here imo consider ps3 was great with a lot of pcm 7.1 support for the entire gen.

 

[KodiakOak]

Is the Dolby Atmos license worth buying for Xbox/Windows? Or is the Windows Sonic pretty good enough?

 

[Dant21]

—>Ctrl+F
—>Aureal
"No results found"

The main problem with the audio technology industry, it seems, is that any new good tech gets killed early and fast by the bigger players. Case-in-point is Aureal's A3D in the late 90's

 

[Skyfireblaze]

Microsoft have Windows Sonic at the platform level on Windows and Xbox. It seems to work quite well. I don't know if it's game dependent but it seems to work whenever I try it.

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Windows Sonic used to work amazingly for me before I updated Windows 10 from 1803 to 1809, now on 1809 it sounds like a mess and I can't figure out why :/

 

[Freddo]

The main problem with the audio technology industry, it seems, is that any new good tech gets killed early and fast by the bigger players. Case-in-point is Aureal's A3D in the late 90's

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Yeah, I miss Aureal :(

 

[ChoklitCow]

Is the Dolby Atmos license worth buying for Xbox/Windows? Or is the Windows Sonic pretty good enough?

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For me on the PC side, no. There are some subtle differences between the two that lead some people to prefer one over the other, but their implementation is very similar. I believe the consensus is Sonic is more extreme/exaggerated at the ends and Atmos has bleh mids.

 

[KodiakOak]

For me on the PC side, no. There are some subtle differences between the two that lead some people to prefer one over the other, but their implementation is very similar. I believe the consensus is Sonic is more extreme/exaggerated at the ends and Atmos has bleh mids.

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Thanks! I'll stick to Windows Sonic for now then.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

—>Ctrl+F
—>Aureal
"No results found"

The main problem with the audio technology industry, it seems, is that any new good tech gets killed early and fast by the bigger players. Case-in-point is Aureal's A3D in the late 90's

Click to shrink...

This was going to be my post.

 

[noyram23]

Yeah there are a small number of Sony exclusives that support it with the Platinum headset. Uncharted has it and so does Horizon.

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Is RE2 supported? It seems the support kinda fell off the cliff for my Platinum

 

[ffvorax]

Probably is not cheap to make it...?
Hellblade was incredible, but there are a bunch of games that use this, and all of PSVR games too.

 

[Nerun]

Well, virtual sound isn't really good in my opinion at least not compared to true 5.1+ systems. Sure RE2 sounds great, but that's the case with common headphones as well and on PS4 too. Tried different sets and Dolby Atmos in the past.

I still have some hopes left for this:
Creative Super X-Fi

 

[DSP]

It's getting better. Some of the newer PC games use windows 10 spatial audio option, like FFXV, tom raider, Overwatch got patched for it and others. It's pretty good, that dolby atmos app is worth buying imo, it works across xbox and PC, 10 devices total and it's often on sale for $10. It can simulate traditional surround sources for headphones very well, nice for movies and older games but if you don't windows sonic is good too, it's just different but free.

Hellblade audio was great and it didn't require special equipment or headphones.

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It did require headphones, the game made sure to tell you that as well, binaural audio only works with headphones.

 

[lumzi23]

I like how it is done in Battlefield V (3D Headphones mode I think it is).

What I am waiting for is proper Binaural Audio for Headphones in games.

 

[Akira86]

Came for Aureal3D...left depressed and on the verge of tears.

 

[Pottuvoi]

One problem is that one cannot freely place speakers where they want and let computer do proper mixing for it.
There really shouldn't be any restrictions on height or direction where the speakers are.

Location calibration could be done quite easily with modern phones.
- Play sound from speaker, aim phone toward speaker playing the sound and mark it.
If speaker is large mark several points within it or even different elements.

- next speaker..
etc.

 

[petethepanda]

It's kind of bewildering that Dolby uses the same "Atmos" branding for 20+ channel theaters, 5.1 to 7.1-channel home theaters, and stereo headphone mixes. It makes it as nebulous as "IMAX" is nowadays.

 

[Maxi]

It's expensive to implement and even harder to test for the variety of sound setups and is only for a niche market which is why it is not commonly supported.

 

[Pargon]

Something must have changed recently to be honest.
Games where I clearly have a prompt saying "Windows Sonic is currently in use" and it's using the 5.1/7.1 source:

Destiny 2
Subnautica
Svencoop

This never worked for me before in the past, and I'm using an ODAC which can only use "Stereo". These games had no relevant updates, so Microsoft must have changed something in the implementation to try to trick games to send the Surround signal if it exists.

Click to shrink...

Can you post more details or perhaps a screenshot of this message? I've not seen anything like that, and I tried reinstalling Subnautica to test it.

For me on the PC side, no. There are some subtle differences between the two that lead some people to prefer one over the other, but their implementation is very similar. I believe the consensus is Sonic is more extreme/exaggerated at the ends and Atmos has bleh mids.

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The larger difference is that Windows Sonic supports significantly more objects than Dolby Atmos for Headphones on Windows.

It's kind of bewildering that Dolby uses the same "Atmos" branding for 20+ channel theaters, 5.1 to 7.1-channel home theaters, and stereo headphone mixes. It makes it as nebulous as "IMAX" is nowadays.

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Atmos means that it's using object-based audio. The speaker setup is independent of that.

 

[Arkanius]

Can you post more details or perhaps a screenshot of this message? I've not seen anything like that, and I tried reinstalling Subnautica to test it.


The larger difference is that Windows Sonic supports significantly more objects than Dolby Atmos for Headphones on Windows.

Atmos means that it's using object-based audio. The speaker setup is independent of that.

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It shows like this:

You have to activate Windows Sonic and tick the box to use the 5.1/7.1 sources since the game wont send the 3D object data. I've tried with that option on/off on the above examples and it never triggered Windows Sonic, which makes me believe it's using the 5.1/7.1 data

 

[Pargon]

It shows like this:

You have to activate Windows Sonic and tick the box to use the 5.1/7.1 sources since the game wont send the 3D object data. I've tried with that option on/off on the above examples and it never triggered Windows Sonic, which makes me believe it's using the 5.1/7.1 data

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Strange, I don't see that anywhere. Are you using an Insider build of Windows 10?
And does that pop up automatically, or are you selecting the speaker icon on the taskbar to bring it up?

 

[Anton]

Creative owns the tech and trademarks behind a lot of the tech for good 3D audio, and they're not afraid to file suit