Why are full video playthroughs of games with no commentary not considered piracy?

[Executive Taxi]

You know the ones I'm talking about! Those YouTube videos of games that are like 5+ hours long with no editing or commentary.

Edit: Ok since people are being intentionally obtuse, here's what I mean: I find these sorts of videos problematic because it's a straight rebroadcast of a game and its content with no other purpose. When a content creator adds commentary (and other means of transforming the content), then it's a different matter because they are adding value to the content.

You can argue that games are interactive and therefore it's not the same but there are many story-oriented games that are linear enough to be negatively impacted by such practices.

 

[It’s Time To Go]

Thats a great OP, lot of details and examples. Why would it be piracy?

 

[Rosebud]

Because people watching are not playing the game illegally?

 

[Pankratous]

Why would commentary make it not piracy in your eyes?

You're still seeing all the content without paying.

 

[SMD]

.

 

[Deleted member 54320]

Piracy? I consider it more of an advertisement than anything else.

 

[Cenauru]

Cause watching isn't playing

 

[Executive Taxi]

Why would commentary make it not piracy in your eyes?

You're still seeing all the content without paying.

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Because with commentary, the video creator is actually adding their own content not just rebroadcasting a game

 

[sir_crocodile]

because it's a game, not a movie

 

[Eumi]

Usually an OP like this would come with some kind of argument as to why it would be.

But if you don't have one I guess that just answers your own question.

 

[Hella]

Video games are defined by interactivity with the player. Remove that and it's just not the same.

 

[Roukira]

There are quite a number of Twitch streams without any commentary either. Do you consider those piracy too? Imo it doesn't make sense, watching it doesn't mean playing it.

 

[Modest_Modsoul]

?????????

Without commentaries, I could hear the game, the sound effects, the music, the voices, etc.

 

[Sankara]

I think it should be considered piracy to even talk about games unless you have forked over money to these poor multibillion companies who desperately need more control and power over everything.

 

[dorjjj]

Well, that's the reason Telltale went under guys

 

[Vostranoid]

Because you are not playing.

 

[Eumi]

Well, that's the reason Telltale went under guys

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Contributing to the downfall to a company doesn't mean something is piracy. You can argue that these playthroughs shouldn't be allowed by using Telltale as an example, but has nothing to do with whether or not it's piracy.

 

[Skyfireblaze]

This is a very slippery-slope line of thinking. The main aspect that differentiates video-games from other mediums is interaction and the dynamic created by controlling the game. Streams and videos don't allow for this element and are therefore not considered piracy. It might apply to Kinetic Novels but these usually don't get broadcast.

 

[nbnt]

Because with commentary, the video creator is actually adding their own content not just rebroadcasting a game

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So it's ok to stream a movie but with my commentary on it?

 

[Mechaplum]

Brb going to start a channel filled with videos where I flip pages of novels without commentary.

 

[Executive Taxi]

So it's ok to stream a movie but with my commentary on it?

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Yes because you are transforming the content and adding value to it

 

[Nintendo]

You find them problematic but the publishers don't. Publishers can stop content creators from uploading/streaming their games but they don't.

 

[Simon-chan]

Atlus agrees with you.

 

[Deleted member 23212]

Prisons and jails are already overcrowded as is, do we really need to lock people up for uploading clips of them playing games too?

 

[Alvis]

I can't believe the CEO of Atlus has a ResetEra account

 

[SgtCobra]

I'm glad pubs and devs don't have the same mindset you have when it comes to this subject. I immensely hate gameplay with commentary with the intensity of a thousand suns.

 

[Mr.Branding]

Because people watching are not playing the game illegally?

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This. Wrap it up, folks.

 

[It’s Time To Go]

Prisons and jails are already overcrowded as is, do we really need to lock people up for uploading clips of them playing games too?

Click to shrink...

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

You find them problematic but the publishers don't. Publishers can stop content creators from uploading/streaming their games but they don't.

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I bet they would love to, but those days are now gone and people would kick up a big stink about it if they do so it's not worth the bad PR.

The only company still in that era is Atlus.

 

[Kyougar]

Well, that's the reason Telltale went under guys

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Telltale was the reason Telltale went under.
Walking Dead Season 1 was released at a time where Youtube was already big.

You have to give your potential customers a reason to play the game themselves. And that reason wasn't there with the last games.

 

[Executive Taxi]

I can't believe the CEO of Atlus has a ResetEra account

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SMT V is delayed by a year for every reply to this thread!

 

[NekoFever]

So it's ok to stream a movie but with my commentary on it?

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There are allowances in copyright law for derivative works of criticism, so possibly. You'd have a hard time getting it past YouTube's copyright system, of course, but that's not the same as it being illegal.

 

[KDR_11k]

There's already enough difficulty in preserving games, some curators have already claimed that video footage of the games is good enough for preservation. If we remove even that then how are we supposed to keep old games recorded at all?

 

[Deleted member 35204]

don't give me ideas, if i want to watch a playthrough i don't want to hear a petulant and obnoxious voice behind every pressed button

 

[Orioto]

When i look for vids of a game on youtube i always put "no commentary" on the search to avoid annoying youtubers on top of it.
Also a game has to be played i guess.If watching it passively equals playing it, then what's the point of playing it..

 

[manksalot]

Not a lawyer, but here's how I think of it. Playthroughs are not reproductions of games, they're performances of games. For a flawed analogy: If I buy some sheet music, typically the authors explicitly prohibit photocopying it and distributing for profit. But I can take it to a paid show and perform that music. Are the people listening to me pirating the sheet music? Am I?

 

[Executive Taxi]

Not a lawyer, but here's how I think of it. Playthroughs are not reproductions of games, they're performances of games. For a flawed analogy: If I buy some sheet music, typically the authors explicitly prohibit photocopying it and distributing for profit. But I can take it to a paid show and perform that music. Are the people listening to me pirating the sheet music? Am I?

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That's a really great counterpoint. I think your analogy does apply for most games however I still think it's messy when people upload videos of narrative driven experiences like visual novels.

 

[svacina]

But I can take it to a paid show and perform that music. Are the people listening to me pirating the sheet music? Am I?

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No for the first question, yes for the second. Unless it's free domain already you can't just use somebody else's song in a publc performance.

 

[Deleted member 8861]

Because with commentary, the video creator is actually adding their own content not just rebroadcasting a game

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At what point, then, does a broadcaster's "contribution" to the game become commentary? Because then the LPer might as well put a recurring noise in the background and claim that's different.

I'd argue that playing the game is making a derivative work of a sort... It's not identical and technically what you're distributing is FOOTAGE, which you've to some degree produced yourself (by playing the game). The sole possible exception to this is visual novels, and even then some of them.

 

[Jiraiya]

Who determines what stories are protected and what aren't? Is uncharted story intensive enough?

 

[Laser Man]

It's a grey zone, the reason it is still there is because most videogame companies themselves don't see it as piracy as the exposure to a wider audience via YT and Twitch seems to help them sell more games.

 

[Hanbei]

It's video games. They are interactive by nature, it's not like movies. Watching a full playthrough is very different from playing it yourself.

 

[Borman]

They are banking the the fact that performance is in itself a transformative work. No one really wants to be the one to take a case like that to court either, game companies losing could be far worse than what they might gain by allowing it to continue (where some claim ads, etc).

 

[manksalot]

That's a really great counterpoint. I think your analogy does apply for most games however I still think it's messy when people upload videos of narrative driven experiences like visual novels.

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I hear you on that, and I do see how the more linear the experience the more it could seem like possible infringement. Personally I'd argue that as long as there's *some* interactivity - I mean, as long as it's a game and not a movie - it's transformative enough that I wouldn't consider a playthrough a reproduction.

No for the first question, yes for the second. Unless it's free domain already you can't just use somebody else's song in a publc performance.

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Yeah you're sort of right - for my example, it really depends on a) whether the sheet music extends performance rights or b) if you're performing in a venue that has a license covering performance rights. I'm checking info against https://yourbusiness.azcentral.com/sheet-music-copyright-laws-13305.html But in those two cases, my example holds up. So maybe the question is whether the games we purchase, or license in our shiny digital hell, grant or should grant performance rights. Or whether youtube/twitch/etc should be acting as venues and doing some licensing of performance rights.

...boy I'd hate it if we started to see "Streamer Editions" sold for games and you didn't have permission to post playthroughs or streams unless you spent extra $$$. Wouldn't be surprised with the way monetization's been going.

 

[nekkid]

It's video games. They are interactive by nature, it's not like movies. Watching a full playthrough is very different from playing it yourself.

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Very much dependent on the game.

 

[giancarlo123x]

 

[Flon]

I suppose you could consider it a public performance of the game, which is why a few companies cracked down on gameplay videos through monetization. Nintendo had their Creators Program to take a cut of the royalties through these "public performances". Some companies just took things down full stop, like Atlus did.

Nowadays Nintendo states that "Videos and images that contain mere copies of Nintendo Game Content without creative input or commentary are not permitted." in their guidelines. But I'm not sure to the extent that is enforced.

I suppose it isn't too common because there is benefit seen, there must be. It isn't unheard of that major publishers use Youtube/Twitch personalities as advertisement and exposure. I also think playthrough videos of old games has contributed to many of them achieving cult followings too. I guess cracking down only on certain kinds of playthroughs sets a bad precedent too, I don't know. They have the power to remove much of it though.

 

[hobblygobbly]

because most game companies do not consider it piracy. legally game companies can claim all LPs/twitch streams of their games if they wanted, but they don't , so it's a legally grey area for streamers/youtubers - they operate on the basis that game companies simply don't want to claim it (as they learned it's good for their marketing). commentary or not.

 

[hey it's that dog]

You can argue that games are interactive and therefore it's not the same but there are many story-oriented games that are linear enough to be negatively impacted by such practices.

Click to shrink...

That's exactly why it's not piracy. The fact that it may hurt sales is not sufficient to classify it as piracy, which has a specific definition. Unless you are copying and experiencing someone's creative content in the way it was meant to be experienced by paying customers, you aren't pirating.

Maybe you could argue that a YouTube play through is akin to a camcorder bootleg or something, but it absolutely loses a lot more of the qualities of the original when it's a game versus when it's a movie.

I'd you're comfortable expanding the definition of piracy to be more strict, then you could say this is piracy, but I don't think that's a good idea.

 

[ProstatePuncher]

As the rebel that I am, I take my LP watches one step further by imitating every key press and mouse click made by the player, so that I can stick it to the man even harder.