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Let's assume the worst and edit it out later if we're wrong, lol
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PS4 Pro/PS5 - Native Supersampling Omissions |OT|
- Thread starter Vashetti
- Start date
Let's assume the worst and edit it out later if we're wrong, lol
Joined you! :) Guys, please all Twitter Bluepointgames. Maybe we can change something till release in case they indeed plan right now to just lock out HDTV users of a higher resolution mode.
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I don't know it from personal experience, but it's been stated by a developer who would know several times, yes.
I knew super sampling was going to have technical issues. If you have to render the game at 4x HD and then resample, while rendering an interactive environment with various unpredictable performance spikes obviously that's going to present and insurmountable obstacle for a lot of developers that aren't Guerilla Games.
Too bad we can't expect the gaming media to do any actual journalism... such as getting a straight answer from Sony.
I thought it was worded correctly in the blog article that HDTV users would at least get a better image quality:
Downsampling confirmed.
https://blog.us.playstation.com/201...nts-special-edition-revealed/#comment-1225818
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Thank goodness! :D I wasn't going to allow myself to be hyped for this game or preorder it until that was confirmed.
Why do we always have to drag a confirmation of downsampling out of the devs? Often we only learn about it after release form Digital Foundry or NX Gamer. Why don't they just address it themselves, when they are already talking about improvements on the Pro? Downsampling is not a given after all and there are still a majority of people gaming on 1080p TVs.
Why do we always have to drag a confirmation of downsampling out of the devs? Often we only learn about it after release form Digital Foundry or NX Gamer. Why don't they just address it themselves, when they are already talking about improvements on the Pro? Downsampling is not a given after all and there are still a majority of people gaming on 1080p TVs.
Good to hear, the game looks amazing and I still have a 1080p TV.
Every PS4 since Oct 2013 had down-sampling as default behavior, internet just decided to conveniently forget about it when Pro/4k displays came out.
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That would be an interesting topic in all honesty, but not relevant for this one.
I'd be interested to read a thread about people discussing that.
Sorry, it's your thread, so if you want to keep it super narrow to one particular poor PS4 Pro behavior, I'll leave, but it follows along right from this statement in your original post. 1080p users are being arbitrarily locked out of PS4 Pro benefits, only in more than just one way. I don't consider a lower frame rate than a regular PS4 user in exchange for a marginally more antialiassed image a "benefit", and I thought this problem within the realm of limiting 1080p Pro users' choices enough for the same discussion.
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Yep. Play your PS4 (OG) or PS4 Pro on a 720p/768p TV and your 900p/1080p games are downsampling, their internal resolution doesn't drop to 720p.
But you're not getting a worse framerate in Fallout 4, etc. on a 1080p display (on Pro) than if you were playing on a 4K display. It's not relevant for this topic.
But how the fuck would you know that if you never used your PS4 on an old-ass 720p screen lol hardly something people "conveniently forgot about."
Yeah, but most people arguably didn't, so they would never come in contact with this system-wide downsampling.
Sony's (and devs') communication on PS4 Pro downsampling leaves so much to be desired. They expressly marketed the Pro as a console for enthusiasts, yet leave said enthusiasts to find out for themselves, through forums and twitter, exactly what benefits the Pro version will deliver, and particularly whether downsampling is in for 1080p users - a benefit that was promised before launch. I find it absolutely astonishing.
Yeah I remember games looking much sharper on my 720p TV than any 720p PS360 game I've played last gen. Any ideas or insight why a developer would put in the extra work to disable downsampling? I don't recall any PS4 game rendering at 720p when the system was set to that resolution.
Not disputing anything you've been saying BTW, just curious as to why we've never seen SS disabled until the Pro was launched.
Have any links to devs or other corroborating info? If boosting dynamic res were the default, then how is it that devs have to "intentionally offer a different mode for 1080p display"? If the res is boosted in accordance with processing power and then is downsampled automatically as you claim, then why would devs need to do it manually as your say in the 2nd paragraph? If framerates were the main concern, they could cap the dynamic res to downsample from.
You can force 720p on a 1080p display to test it out - I was mainly pointing out anyone could see this for themselves, and consoles have had this since 2005, and it was quite commonly bypassed by developer back then also.
As Liabe Brave and others have pointed out - explicit support for 1080p/4k usually means different performance profiles, and users seem to want multiple options for that. I recall a lot of noise was made on the old forum over certain early Pro enabled-games that only-downsampled without choice of other modes, and their performance wasn't perceived favorably.
As to why that, over using in-game menu with graphical-modes (that would work regardless of TV connected) the answer is simple - far less work is involved. UX and QA/performance testing are generally the biggest time/money sinks when supporting multiple configurations.
Meh they both have their strengths and weaknesses. MS has been unifying things at a system level going back to the original xbox. Sony has always had a "we provide the hardware leave the rest to the devs" type of stance.
I get it with games that have different performance profiles. I don't question the developer choices with those games since it's pretty clear. I'm curious on games that don't offer multiple rendering modes but also don't downsample when hooked up to a 1080p display. Games like the Assassins Creed Collection, Dishonored 2, and Outlast 2 all render at higher resolutions when hooked up to a 4K TV but render at 1080p when hooked up to a FHD display with no benefits. If I understand you correctly, additional work would have needed to be done to disable SS and I'm just curious why they would go through this additional work. I'm not bothered by any of it in the end, it's just a curiosity on my part.
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Sure, but why would anyone do that? You can't blame people for being ignorant when there was simply never any benefit of a downsampled 1080p on 720p for the majority of people, and you might not even notice it without sufficient knowledge even if you did try it. Same goes for playing PS3 on an SD screen, something I've even actively looked down upon.
People have only started to care now because there is actually some relevancy to the function this time. You're buying a console for specific benefits, not even to just play the games, but to get extra goodies, and sometimes you're just missing out. That's bad.
And since no dev ever seems to talk about why they turned it off or didn't implement it (in case people don't know which one it is), we were almost completely reliant on comments on the matter such as yours to even get the slightest bit of insight.
Fafalada has already responded so this may be superfluous, but you're a little confused about what I was saying. Boosting resolution automatically only happens with unpatched games with dynamic resolution. And it tops out at whatever the original target was, which I believe in all cases is 1080p. Therefore, unpatched games don't ever get downsampling.
Patched games will automatically downsample on 1080p displays if necessary, so if the dev wants to focus on a different benefit, such as framerate, they have to intentionally offer a non-default setup. And yes, theoretically they could choose to not remove but just reduce the res increase instead. So on 4K displays the game could be, say, 1800p with unstable 30fps, but on 1080p displays 1440p downsampled with stable 30fps.
In fact, we seem to have a (similar) instance announced just now. It appears that Shadow of the Colossus resolution mode is 2160ti on 4K displays (that is, 4K resolution reconstructed from prior frame info). But on 1080p displays, it's downsampled from only 1440p (the single-frame render target), rather than the reconstructed 3840x2160 buffer. It's not known if the framerate is improved, but I imagine it could be by some little amount.
Good to know, doesn't change the point of my initial question though.
And vice versa, I don't consider marginally improved performance a benefit over noticeably improved anti-aliasing and textures that supersampling provides. Let alone, removing supersampling from 30fps quality modes, like it was with The Last of Us until it was reverted back.
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If any Rocket League fans want downsampling, I'd ask you to upvote and perhaps comment on my post on their official Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeag...ease_implement_downsamplingsupersampling_for/
I initially posted it on their official support system, before being redirected to Facebook, before again being redirected to Reddit! :P
https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeag...ease_implement_downsamplingsupersampling_for/
I initially posted it on their official support system, before being redirected to Facebook, before again being redirected to Reddit! :P
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This still annoy me, I sold my base ps4 to get ready for the pro deals this holiday but as a 1080p tv user this kept me from going with the pro. But seems like the average consumer is not bothered with it.
As a full digital consumer I welcomed xbox one vision in 2013 but that did not turn out great as we all know :p I really really hope ps5 will embrace super sampling for every customer
As a full digital consumer I welcomed xbox one vision in 2013 but that did not turn out great as we all know :p I really really hope ps5 will embrace super sampling for every customer
Yep, they simply aren't. Here on this forum you can count the members that not just complain, but at least try to take action on one hand. Vashetti and me being already two of those.
It basically always goes like this:
1) Word comes out that game has no downsampling
2) Several people complain: Why is this still a thing?
3) Several people don't get it: Why are you are even complaining?
4) Several complaining people justify themselves:This is why we complain...
5) Several people that don't get it: kay...
6) Out of several people complaining only a couple actually go to developer and Sony to complain
7) Rinse and repeat step 1 to 7 when next game with no downsampling arrives
If I were Sony I'd ignore this too...
Downsampling is NOT enabled by default on the PS4 Pro.
There are two modes. A 3840x2160 mode, and a 1920x1080 mode. The mode is selected based on your TV's resolution. By default, games in 1920x1080 mode will display in 1080p and offer no downsampling.
There are two modes. A 3840x2160 mode, and a 1920x1080 mode. The mode is selected based on your TV's resolution. By default, games in 1920x1080 mode will display in 1080p and offer no downsampling.
That makes it sound like most of the games don't offer downsampling, which is utterly wrong. About 90% off the games with Pro support offer their high res setting in form of downsampling. And of the rest, most have specific benefits like increased draw distance or better antialiasing for 1080p users.
The majority doesn't care because it only affects a minority of games. Still sad to see in certain cases, but don't make it more than it is. The worst culprit is Square Enix, and Ubisoft may hold the high score with AC Ezio Collection, which is pixel for pixel, frame for frame identical to base PS4 for 1080 p users.
I guess it wouldn't be SOTC without at least one mode having framerate drops.
What would you say looks better on a 1080p screen, downsampled native 1440p or downsampled checkerboard 2160p that is reconstructed from 1440p?
What I appreciate most about higher resolutions is the increased clarity of textures and texture filtering (imo especially important) and the increased detail on things like foliage in the distance, which doesn't look as cut out and undetailed in higher resolutions as it does in 1080p. Improved AA is great as well, but today most games already look pretty smooth in 1080p due to good AA solutions.
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I think it is more the thread topic has nothing to do what you want, and hardly anyone cares about that at all. There are other issues too. We should definitely get more
Shit I doubt they can pull it off lol. My 1070 would not even run close to native 4K at 60FPS. So the best you could hope for is 1440p. They might as well just improve their AA.