I definitely missed all the threads based on a single tweet from an indie dev for other systems so feel free to post links .
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Why are some people still obsessed with Nintendo being the premiere third party platform?
- Thread starter TheMisterManGuy
- Start date
Because I don't care about cutting edge graphics, I care about the convenience of portable play. It's why I want EVERYTHING on switch including as many classic system libraries as I can.
OP
OP
Except that's not the case with the Switch. Anything publishers are throwing at it is selling well on the Switch. People are buying non-Nintendo software on the Switch. Thus, Indies, Japanese games, mid-tier projects, rounded out by a couple AAA third party titles each year is fine for the Switch. The point is that the Switch is not the #1 place to play the newest Assasin's Creed, or same day-to-date AAA releases of the other consoles. It's meant to be an alternative to those who want to take some of those games on the go. Plus, being a mobile device, the Switch can't run every current AAA title.
That's not really what I'm saying. My point is that people keep wanting the Switch to be the #1 or at least primary place to play all the latest AAA blockbusters. When that's both unrealistic and unnecessary. Look, I want as many developers supporting the Switch as possible, but the Switch can't possibly get every single AAA game that's on the PS4 or Xbox One. There are limits to what it can actually run. The Switch is an impressive device, but it's much closer to last gen than current gen in specs, so it's not always as simple as downgrading a game to run on the Switch. Doom is an amazing feat, but it's not something you can apply to everything. In the end, it's the "port everything to Switch" people I'm talking about. Those who want everything to magically appear on the console, with no regards to how mobile technology works.
Last edited:
The fact it's unrealistic doesn't mean we can't complain about it and critisize nintendo for it, does it?
Oh if the complaints are going to Nintendo then by all means go for it, they deserve it after all. I was just saying there's not much devs and publishers can do about the Switch only being roughly 1/3 of an original xb1 (and that's when it's docked). Most games running on the popular engines aren't meant to scale down that far without completely breaking the game. Go look at the digital foundry video for monster hunter and look at how poorly it runs on an original xbox one, now try to imagine it running on something 1/3 the power.
It's because it is newsworthy. It wouldn't really be a shock to anyone if those games sold more on a platform with 6x the install base that usually is where 3rd party games sell the best.
Switch indie sales blowing others out of the water is unprecedented for a Nintendo system and should be discussed.
OP
OP
Just because something is running poorly on base PS4 or Xbox One, doesn't always mean it's pushing the hardware, it could also mean the game was poorly optimized or coded. Also, how is it Nintendo's fault that mobile technology hasn't caught up to Xbox One level power yet. They chose to make a portable home console, and thus, they had to work with what was realistically available.
It depends entirely on implementation and optimization, things don't scale that linearly. MHW isn't exactly pushing the limits of Xbox One S or PS4 even if it doesn't run great on them.
Switch (docked) being roughly a third Xbox One (or a quarter PS4) is only by one metric too (GPU GFLOPS). You introduce heavy fp16 calculation and that metric halves. Switch also comes closer in other aspects too like CPU (roughly half) or RAM (about 2/3), it's not only around a third of XBO power wise overall.
I don't think it's true that in raw numbers most non-indie games wouldn't be able to run on Switch. Bandai Namco alone probably releases more games than the big four western publishers combined and the vast, vast majority of their games could work on Switch.
Sees this is what I take issue with. There are no numbers so the bolded is your personal slant and it happens all the time.
There's no hard numbers but there are endless developer testimonials. If a dev says their game sold best on Switch, often by a wide margin, why would you discount that?
Switch won't ever have meaningful third party support even from the companies that should support it for logical reasons (games mostly aimed at more niche audiences or general bigger Japan appeal).
I think it's kinda sad how it can help Japan's market or smaller genres, but I don't think companies will get on it.
I think it's kinda sad how it can help Japan's market or smaller genres, but I don't think companies will get on it.
Generally speaking, people aren't asking for Red Dead Redemption 2 on Switch. Everyone knows that the Switch wouldn't be able to handle that, they've been asking for products that make sense for the Switch.
People are annoyed when we have to "beg" to get a fucking Megaman collection on the Switch, which should have been a no brainer from Day 1 considering like basically the entire market for Megaman stuff is on Nintendo consoles. People get annoyed when we have to be "tested" to see if there's a market for Switch with a game that's been ported fucking everywhere already like RE: Revelations, and we still passed that test by outselling every other version. People would like something like Okami HD on the Switch, considering the original game did great on Wii and there's absolutely no reason the Switch shouldn't be able to handle something like that. Stuff that was cross generation like GTA V, or Metal Gear Solid V would seem to make sense for the Switch. Maybe the most unrealistic common ask is Monster Hunter, but I mean, Nintendo fans kept that franchise alive for the last decade, so hey, god forbid if they might want to play the fruits of their labor. PS4/Xbox don't have to ask for products, they just get them, because it makes sense for that product to be there. Switch is selling in record numbers, it makes sense for sensible, realistic, products to make their way there. When that doesn't happen, you'll see people complain. Just like you would if a major release randomly decided to skip Xbox for whatever reason.
People are annoyed when we have to "beg" to get a fucking Megaman collection on the Switch, which should have been a no brainer from Day 1 considering like basically the entire market for Megaman stuff is on Nintendo consoles. People get annoyed when we have to be "tested" to see if there's a market for Switch with a game that's been ported fucking everywhere already like RE: Revelations, and we still passed that test by outselling every other version. People would like something like Okami HD on the Switch, considering the original game did great on Wii and there's absolutely no reason the Switch shouldn't be able to handle something like that. Stuff that was cross generation like GTA V, or Metal Gear Solid V would seem to make sense for the Switch. Maybe the most unrealistic common ask is Monster Hunter, but I mean, Nintendo fans kept that franchise alive for the last decade, so hey, god forbid if they might want to play the fruits of their labor. PS4/Xbox don't have to ask for products, they just get them, because it makes sense for that product to be there. Switch is selling in record numbers, it makes sense for sensible, realistic, products to make their way there. When that doesn't happen, you'll see people complain. Just like you would if a major release randomly decided to skip Xbox for whatever reason.
It's nintendo's fault because they chose to make a mobile system. Mobile system means it can't run the types of things that consoles and PCs run. Everyone but switch fans seem to have accepted this fact and have moved on with their lives.
Half the power/speed of the embarrassingly weak 2012 netbook CPUs that ps4/xb1 use isn't exactly doing the switch any favors in this discussion. Those consoles are hamstrung enough by their cpus.
Everyone will be better off if they can just accept that it's not going to get most AAA games unless they put out some docked only Switch+ that can bridge the gap a bit.
This. All of this.
It's dishonest when people make it (just) about AAA games.
Pretty much what AdropOFvenom said.
SNES and DS are among the best systems ever because in addition to great first party content there was alot of amazing 3rdParty content. When people ask for 3rds to step up their game its usually about...wait why arent Mega Man Collection or Okami not coming to Switch ? Any chance of a great title ala Persona 5 coming to the system ? GTA V should be possible too right ? Bamco where is FighterZ, after XV2 sold amazing on Switch ?
At least on Era you dont really hear people asking for Anthem, RDR2 and co. on their Switch.
SNES and DS are among the best systems ever because in addition to great first party content there was alot of amazing 3rdParty content. When people ask for 3rds to step up their game its usually about...wait why arent Mega Man Collection or Okami not coming to Switch ? Any chance of a great title ala Persona 5 coming to the system ? GTA V should be possible too right ? Bamco where is FighterZ, after XV2 sold amazing on Switch ?
At least on Era you dont really hear people asking for Anthem, RDR2 and co. on their Switch.
You are quite wrong about that.
It's roughly half the CPU power because it's literally half the cores. A57 is pretty old too.
It's not like Switch is a gen or two behind in processing like Vita and n3DS were vs 360 and PS3. In fact handheld and home consoles haven't had this small a power gap since PSP and PS2.
I agree Switch won't get every AAA game, but most of those aren't because of system capability.
Overall I'm pretty happy with the Switch library, even if it doesn't get the big Western AAA franchises. Getting games like SMT V is good enough for me. Plus I will probably get Valkyria Chronicles 4 on the Switch because a srpg is better on a portable. I have Disgaea 5 on both PS4 and Switch, and I definitely prefer the Switch version.
Hopefully it gets a similar library to the 3DS, which has a good selection of 3rd party Japanese support. The 3DS rpg library reminds me of the PS2 years.(and some were actually PS2 games.) The addition of older Western games like Skyrim and Dark Souls, along with great indie games like Rocket League, and Stardew is an added bonus.
Nintendo is smart in my opinion to do something different than Sony and Microsoft. It makes their products fun and unique even if the competition has more powerful hardware. Sometimes it fails miserably for them(Wii U) but often it works out well(Wii, Switch, and their many handhelds)
Hopefully it gets a similar library to the 3DS, which has a good selection of 3rd party Japanese support. The 3DS rpg library reminds me of the PS2 years.(and some were actually PS2 games.) The addition of older Western games like Skyrim and Dark Souls, along with great indie games like Rocket League, and Stardew is an added bonus.
Nintendo is smart in my opinion to do something different than Sony and Microsoft. It makes their products fun and unique even if the competition has more powerful hardware. Sometimes it fails miserably for them(Wii U) but often it works out well(Wii, Switch, and their many handhelds)
YES. ALL OF THIS.
It's very annoying when people are always degrading Switch owners for wanting games that could feasibly be ported. The Switch offers ways to play that the competition doesn't. It's been incredibly successful so far, and there's no need for these ridiculous "tests."
And totally agree about MH. It might not be reasonable for an MHW port, but for the series to be Nintendo exclusive and supported by Nintendo fans for X years and then do a complete 180 to be on everything BUT Nintendo? They have every right to be fucking annoyed. I'm getting more annoyed by the "stop talking about MH Switch!" comments, it should be talked about.
Any reason you are sounding so rude? I felt the level of discussion of this thread has been fine but your posts makes me feel we have a ton of people here claiming every game should and could run on Switch.
I've accepted that the games announced for Switch will come to Switch. I think more games will come to Switch in the future. Some will probably be AAA from pubs feeling it's a good fit and making compromises. I do not expect a lot in general tho. I am fine with it. I will support the stuff I feel deserves support. I know many Switch fans on this forum shares these sentiments.
So you need numbers to personally validate if its good or not? Seeing how these devs react and how they seem happy with those, I'd say they have a good reason to tweet these comments.
Anyway, the post from adropofvenom is what some Nintendo fans mean regarding third parties. While there are several fans going overboard about third parties (every Capcom on Switch thread), but some are done with the countless "maybe's", tests and trying to understand what the Switch market wants types of comments from a few key third parties. Although this time around, I believe we'll be getting more.
OP
OP
This makes more sense. I agree, that the no brainier stuff should be on the Switch, and publishers seem to be improving on that front. It seems I wasn't clear enough in my original argument, I want third party games on the Switch, lots of them. Exclusives, ports, indies, etc. My original point was that the Switch wasn't so much about being the best place to play all the latest blockbusters, so much as it is giving a home to games that normally are overshadowed on PS4 and Xbox One.
And again, why is it their fault that they chose to go with a portable home console that plays better to their strengths than risk fighting Sony and MIcrosoft on their turff? We already have two homogenized boxes, we don't need three.
And again, it's not always about the power of the machine, it's about optimization as well. I get that not everyone can optimize as well as id Software, but a game running poorly on Xbox One isn't always the result of hardware limitiations
I don't mean to sound rude I just give honesty whether people want it or not. I see way too much port begging on here, not just this thread, when it's simply not even feasible. To see people constantly doing this is kind of irritating, it's like they just can't accept that the platform cannot run these games.
...why is it their fault that they chose the system they chose? Because they chose it! If you don't want 3 homogeneous systems then you'll have to accept that it won't get most of the games that the others do. That's the consequence to being zany and "unique".
As for optimization there's only so much that can be done. Doom was on the most scale-able engine in the industry and the result on switch was a sub 720p, sub 30fps game that had to have an entirely new low preset made because it was lower than PC's lowest settings. Even after all that if you played on harder difficulty modes the game struggled mightily to sustain the amount of enemies on screen. Other games on other engines have no chance by comparison.
Last edited:
You should defo call out idiots port begging when they do it. I just felt you dragged down the quality of discussion here for no reason which was a shame. But yeah, keep it real.
You obviously don't need numbers to put your own colourful slant on something. I'd rather have more concrete information without a posters personal bias. That's not aimed at you specifically, I mean in general.
I'll believe when I see it, but the trend is clear: japanese third parties pushing for western sales even if this means ignoring their home market leader.
Because Nintendo consoles once were the go to place for major third party games until Sega, and much more than that with Sony, took that away.
The promise of a Nintendo console with full, 100% third party support was a reality but out of market conditions but with more competition Nintendo doesn't have the same hold on the market that they had in 80s/90s
I try to appreciate each console for the games they do have, and not look at it for what it lacks. So I'm used to Nintendo devices (mostly consoles) not getting major AAA third party games. Maybe one day it will change and switch seems on the way to it
The promise of a Nintendo console with full, 100% third party support was a reality but out of market conditions but with more competition Nintendo doesn't have the same hold on the market that they had in 80s/90s
I try to appreciate each console for the games they do have, and not look at it for what it lacks. So I'm used to Nintendo devices (mostly consoles) not getting major AAA third party games. Maybe one day it will change and switch seems on the way to it
Developer statements are concrete information. It's becoming increasingly clear that isn't actually what you want though.
Because publishers would be stupid to ignore it. You're going to sell more copies on Switch than you are on Xbox One.
Looking at things like Disgaea 5, Puyo Puyo Tetris, Nights of Azure 2, etc, Japanese devs are getting better sales in the west on Switch generally too with multiplats. The "for the west" rationalization doesn't really work here, Switch isn't like 3DS or Vita.
...and western sales or pushing for the gloabal market means ignoring the Switch ? How exactly when most Japanese games performed great on Switch thanks to global sales - see Disgaea 5.
Yes it will. You're naive if you think that dedicated console platforms are going to last indefinitely. It simply doesn't make sense anymore, and only greed combined with consumer ignorance is propping up its corpse for the time being. All of these things: PCs, the Switch, the PS4, the Xbox One, are just computers. There's nothing novel about their hardware. People didn't accept having to buy two separate video players to watch movies, and it's only a matter of time before consumers get smart enough to not accept having to buy multiple hardware platforms to play game software when they already have computers coming out of their ears.
They'll still look at the biggest japanese games on PS4 (bigger than japanese third party sales on Switch) and aim for that.
Because it's still a small number in comparison to what other third party japanese games are making on PS4. Not saying all games have that potential, but almost everything skips Switch and I don't see that changing considering how much these companies care about being part of the "modern" western console industry, which Switch is so different from.
Close the book and wrap it up. It's why I'm hoping it gets better 3rd party support. I'd prefer to have everything I want to play on 1 console without having to pay extra money for a second one.
We're talking Nintendo here, particularly the Switch. You seriously expect 3rd party support on the level of a PS4 or XB1? I mean the Switch can't even run the most popular games on these platforms. (COD, PUBG, GTA, Fortnite)
I mean it's fine to be pessimistic about Switch third party support but that's just hyperbole.
OP
OP
Actually, all of those may be possible, particularly Fortnite since its already running Unreal Engine 4, and the director has said he'd like to bring it to Switch.
The PS4 has been on the market for over 4 years and is nearing 80m console sold worldwide.. Expecting the Switch to have anywhere near that kind of support after less than a year of good performance coming from the WiiU is just crazy.
First you say that jpn devs/publishers are ignoring skipping on the domestic market...which would result in them ignoring the Switch - data tells us something different. Now its PS4 support or bust ? Thats not how it works - games that have been in development for 2-3 years and where to launch in 17/18 cant all just be ported to Switch with a button press. It takes time and resources...and often it makes more sense to just include the system for the next/upcoming title in a series.
You havent been paying attention alot of attention if you think jpn publishers are just going to ignore the Switch - KT, Bamco, Square Enix, Sega and co have different plans from what we have been hearing.
It's really not. Most of the japanese third party games skip it and there's no actual big japanese tp release for the system yet.
I'm not talking about ports only, but not even the ports it gets are relevant. Most announcements have no Switch version yet and I wouldn't trust this so much when these companies somehow had poor support even for the 3DS.
Doesn't matter to these companies that the PS4 is 4 years old, they'll still see it as a console with a userbase of 80M+ while the Switch is still trying to catch up. Like I said before, I'll just believe this support when I see it, but I don't think it's on the plans for these companies trying to appeal to the modern western GaaS game market.
I don't think it's unreasonable for people to want to play as many games as possible on their system of choice.
I haven't seen people being unreasonable about it though like expecting games like AC Origins to run on a tablet.
The more games that come to every platform the better for everyone so I say bring it on.
I haven't seen people being unreasonable about it though like expecting games like AC Origins to run on a tablet.
The more games that come to every platform the better for everyone so I say bring it on.
GTA5 is a PS3/360 game so Switch could run it easily.
COD was ported to the Wii for years and Switch is closer to PS4/XBO than Wii was to PS3/360.
Epic just recently expressed interest in Fortnite on Switch.
There definitely are games that wouldn't be possible but those specific examples are probably not the best.