Why are these Game of Thrones books so different from the TV show?

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,483
Alright, this thread is going to have me re-post this old thing I did so long ago:

Jon XX

Jon Snow burst out of the freezing water, the cold air piercing his lungs. He had survived, barely. And, had managed to retain Longclaw. His reward for saving the Old Bear, a triumph that seemed so long ago. He pulled himself out of his would be frozen coffin, the Drowned God would not have him today. Yet, it seemed a futile gesture. Daenerys, the Dragon Queen, and all his seemingly doomed companions had left him. A necessary sacrifice in the Great War. He recalled the look on the Queen's face as she lifted off, high away on her legendary dragon, Drogon. Her silver hair blowing in the winds of winter. He wondered what she was thinking in those final moments, was it the pain of losing a newly gained ally in her fight for the Throne or something more...

It made no difference now. He was alone, once again. A solitary wolf, his pack long gone. By now they should be safely behind The Wall, back inside the warm halls of Eastwatch by the Sea. The War would continue, but without him. The dead were all around him, there was no escape. Why did he climb out of that frozen lake? Wouldn't it have been more peaceful to die swallowed up by the sea? No, that was not the Stark way. He should die with a sword in his hand, in the lands of his ancestors, The First Men, fighting the ancient enemy. Jon's sword hand opened and closed, flexing the burned fingers beneath the glove, a habit he had grown accustomed to. Curiously, he could no longer feel any pain in his burned hand. In fact, he felt nothing at all.

Of course it stops now, I am about to die. I wonder how many I can take with me?

But, before he could finish the thought, a curious sound erupted from the eastern side of the frozen shore. Suddenly, a dazzling spark lit up and went out with a thud. Jon was paralyzed with confusion. He quickly realized it was a man on a horse, fighting the Others alone. Was he saved? But, who could it be? Immediately, his mind went to Gendry. The mad boy must have come back to save me after making it all the way to Eastwatch. Yet, as his vision cleared he noticed that the figure was wielding a flaming thurible in his hand which he whipped about before crashing it into the sea of the undead army. Jon could barely crawl to the figure before he could see that the man was coming towards him. The mounted, shrouded figure rode straight up to his shivering body before dismounting, revealing his face. At first, Jon Snow reacted with panic, it's another undead servant of the Others. His face was pale, his skin peeling apart, and most curiously there was no sign of a frozen breath as he walked toward him. Suddenly, the grotesque visage gave way to a more familiar face.

"Uncle Benjen! "

Jon couldn't believe is eyes. How long did they search for his lost Uncle Benjen, a First Ranger of the Night's Watch that disappeared in what seemed ages ago. Long before the Great War, before the return of Dragons, before his brothers had all died, before the cave...

Jon collapsed under the weight of it all. This undead figure that bared his Uncle's face, lifted him up, placing him on his horse.

"You ride for the pass." He stated, a tired sadness in his voice.

Jon Snow had so many questions, so many things he wanted to tell his Uncle, all the things he had seen, everything he had done. But, all he could blurt out was, "Come with me."

"There's no time," his Uncle stated, shaking his head in a manner that brokered no debate. He then smacked the rear end of his horse yelling, "GO!" Forcing the horse to speed off without him, a solemn look of finality on his face.

But, Jon couldn't understand, there was plenty of time. In fact, by his arithmetic they had at least a minute or so more of time before the Army of the Dead could reach either of them. And, there was plenty of room on the Horse to accommodate both of them. Even moreso, Jon was in no fighting strength. Meanwhile, his Uncle seemed perfectly able to deal with multiple undead servants. Did he think that Jon would not encounter any other Others on his way back to the Wall? What could his Uncle gain by a hopeless final battle against the Others? Why hadn't he explained to Jon just how exactly he managed to survive for so long? Why he hadn't come back to Castle Black if he was still alive? Why hadn't he tried to warn them of what was to come? There was time left, why was he insisting otherwise?

Then it hit Jon like the blast of frozen water that shook his whole body when he fell into the lake. Benjen Stark was a minor character in a grand story that was coming to a close, his looming mystery was no longer necessary. As such, the only way the cruel New Gods could think of closing off his journey was to kill him in the most nonsensical way possible. A jape at the Old God that crafted the character in the first place. The New Gods had plans for Jon Snow, plans involving a silver haired dragon Queen with a fiery portcullis which he would need to dock his ship into. Benjen Stark could undue such plans. And that, the New Gods could not allow.

Jon Snow galloped back to the Wall in the silence of the Winds of Winter.
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,857
Obara IX

The two sisters quickly boarded a boat to sail for King's Landing. They found the kingslayer's ship docked in the harbor. It had been too dangerous to bring Trystane into the city with Myrcella's death so recent.

They entered their cousin's cabin. "I told you. I'm not hungry," the Dornish prince said.

"We're not here to feed you. We're here to kill you," replied Obara Sand. With his death, the entire kingdom of Dorne would fall under their control.

They made him choose an opponent, and he smartly selected Nym because of her less lethal whip. Turning his back on Obara was a mistake however, as she plunged her spear into the back of his head. Weak men would never rule Dorne again.
 

Birdie

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,516
Asha IV

The ironborn had won a narrow victory against the Bolton dregs, but Ramsay was still smiling. He looked at the invaders and remarked "You've got big balls, bigger than he ever did. But with those big balls, how fast can you run?" He opened the cages and unleashed several large dogs on the ironborn.

They would have to escape the Dreadfort's kennels and head back to the ships without their prince.
Oh God this scene was cut so badly. Basically made it a smash-cut scene you'd see in a cartoon.
 

Neece

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,969
Sansa II

The cold, distant boy looked like Bran, but this was not that Bran she knew. What had happened to him? And then her thoughts settled on the girl that had brought him home. Gods, how could she have forgotten? Meera Reed, daughter of Howland Reed. She had been with Bran through his entire journey beyond the wall. Surely Meera would be able to answer every question Bran had failed to answer.

So she walked through the courtyard of Winterfell in search of the girl. When she found her she would channel the hospitality lessons her mother had given her as a child and offer the crannogwoman food, bath, garments, a warm and comfortable bed to sleep. And perhaps while they talked, Sansa could ask Meera about their fathers, and the times they warred together in the south. Maybe Meera could tell her something about her father that she didn't know.

The possibility excited her and made her so much more thankful for what Meera and Hodor and Jojen had done. She would gather the Lords when they supped tonight and hail Meera and her dead brother as northern heroes for bringing Brandon Stark, the rightful Lord of Winterfell back to Winterfell.

But her smile vanished when she reached the castle room and was informed that Meera had returned home. "Oh," she mumbled. "That's unfortunate."
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,857
Jaime IV

He had seen the horrors his family had inflicted on the Riverlands. His time had rendered him a changed man, and he knew that he would never be able to heal the wounds Lord Tully was feeling.

"I'll call for your son and send him into Rivverrun with a catapult," Jaime offered.

Reluctantly, the Lord of Riverrrun allowed the Lannister soldiers into his castle. According to reports from his soldiers, the Blackfish died fighting.
 

B.K.

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,227
I really hope the novelization of season seven is finally released this year.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
4,622
Because in a single paragraph you can describe months of turmoil and emotional hardship in detail. For example, when writing about Sansa's time imprisoned in the red keep George could write how she watched snow fall at different times or wondered about all the staff and their cats that disappeared every week or so (random made up examples, none are actually in the books but it's just to give you an idea of stuff he could write in a single paragraph).

In a show you have to symbolically show everything visually or with lines of dialogue and that's insanely difficult. Especially when you have the main plot to handle as well as sub plots and background story.

And ofcourse, things can get lost in translation with the quality of the shows writing. They can think some things are more important than others, and they are wrong on many accounts. We want a good story but apparently we need the bad pussy.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,168
I know this is a troll thread but realistic Dire Wolf CG is expensive and hard to pull off convincingly so a lot of the Stark children warging stuff got cut.
 

saenima

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,496
I know this is a troll thread but realistic Dire Wolf CG is expensive and hard to pull off convincingly so a lot of the Stark children warging stuff got cut.
CG being expensive has nothing to do with awful writing. The bad pussy is a poor substitute to Nymeria.

Edit: That sounded dickish :( i know that's not what you were saying. It's just that they could have changed a lot of stuff while still trying to remain faithful to the source material.

On another note, this thread prompted a reread of the series lol. Just reading these little snippets whiplashed me right back into the actual books.
 

Morrigan

Armoring
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
10,332
Missed opportunity to use Ramsay's face (bonus if it's him eating sausage) here ;)

Then it hit Jon like the blast of frozen water that shook his whole body when he fell into the lake. Benjen Stark was a minor character in a grand story that was coming to a close, his looming mystery was no longer necessary. As such, the only way the cruel New Gods could think of closing off his journey was to kill him in the most nonsensical way possible. A jape at the Old God that crafted the character in the first place. The New Gods had plans for Jon Snow, plans involving a silver haired dragon Queen with a fiery portcullis which he would need to dock his ship into. Benjen Stark could undue such plans. And that, the New Gods could not allow.

Jon Snow galloped back to the Wall in the silence of the Winds of Winter.
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude
You want a direwolf, but you need a bad pussy.
Stop, stop, I'm already dead
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,627
Why are any books so different to the movie?


I find this stuff so cringey. It's like, how long will it be before people can comprehend the differences in the mediums enough to no longer need to lose their shit over differences. Film versions of books are not, and never have been meant to replace the books. Ever. So silly charts or illustrations like this just come off as bored people with nothing else to do but hate watch literally dozens of hours of a television show based on books they read YEARS ago for the sole sake of complaining about the differences between the TV script and the pages of said books themselves.

There has to be a better use of free time... like seriously.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,483
Jaime IV

He had seen the horrors his family had inflicted on the Riverlands. His time had rendered him a changed man, and he knew that he would never be able to heal the wounds Lord Tully was feeling.

"I'll call for your son and send him into Rivverrun with a catapult," Jaime offered.

Reluctantly, the Lord of Riverrrun allowed the Lannister soldiers into his castle. According to reports from his soldiers, the Blackfish died fighting.
LAWD.
 

SpiffyGiffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
46
Dublin, Ireland
Greetings one and all, and what a glorious day to end a long message board hiatus.



Obara IX

The two sisters quickly boarded a boat to sail for King's Landing. They found the kingslayer's ship docked in the harbor. It had been too dangerous to bring Trystane into the city with Myrcella's death so recent.

They entered their cousin's cabin. "I told you. I'm not hungry," the Dornish prince said.

"We're not here to feed you. We're here to kill you," replied Obara Sand. With his death, the entire kingdom of Dorne would fall under their control.

They made him choose an opponent, and he smartly selected Nym because of her less lethal whip. Turning his back on Obara was a mistake however, as she plunged her spear into the back of his head. Weak men would never rule Dorne again.
Time to break out the old classic:

 

SolVanderlyn

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,788
People keep saying time constraints is what changed the TV show. It isn't. It's shock value from death and degeneracy in a fantasy medium that the showrunners realized was captivating the mainstream audience, causing them to turn it up to 11 in the middle seasons.

They tried to dial it back (to a degree) but by then they were out of book so it became much more bombastic made-for-TV material.

Seasons one through three are amazing.

I like the whole show but the books are something else
 

saenima

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,496
People keep saying time constraints is what changed the TV show. It isn't. It's shock value from death and degeneracy in a fantasy medium that the showrunners realized was captivating the mainstream audience, causing them to turn it up to 11 in the middle seasons.

They tried to dial it back (to a degree) but by then they were out of book so it became much more bombastic made-for-TV material.

Seasons one through three are amazing.

I like the whole show but the books are something else
I think season 4 is still really strong. It's from season 5 onwards that it starts falling apart. I still like those seasons for the spectacle and some of the performances, but the writing really falls off a cliff once the book material runs dry.
 

super-famicom

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
3,685
Jaime IV

Jaime and Bronn were quickly surrounded. As Jaime stepped in front of Myrcella, the first girl lunged forward with a spear, missing him entirely. Jaime parried with his good hand, but as the duel commenced he knew the girl with the whip was right behind, and he was surely cornered. Yet the killing blow never came. Instead, both girls danced around him like a cock strutting for a mate, twirling their weapons without making a move. Jaime glanced at Bronn, whose blade was caught between the tiny daggers of the third girl. Jaime found himself confused as to why Bronn had not yet severed the girl's head from her scrawny shoulders, or why the other two warriors had yet to kill him despite possessing a clear advantage, but his questions remained unanswered as a large man with a spear entered the gardens, flanked by guards, and roared for them to stop in the name of the prince. Knowing they were outnumbered, Jaime dropped his weapon, finding himself more confused than when he had entered.
My sides hurt from laughing so hard.
 

ryseing

Bought courtside tickets just to read a book.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,745
North Carolina
I think season 4 is still really strong. It's from season 5 onwards that it starts falling apart. I still like those seasons for the spectacle and some of the performances, but the writing really falls off a cliff once the book material runs dry.
Yep. S4 is great in large part because they nailed Oberyn.

Which would end up being a mistake since they saw how much everyone liked Oberyn and then were like LOL let's make three different female versions of him.
 

Thaedolus

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,719
The subtlety and nuance of the books is completely gone, but the Battle of the Bastards is still fucking GOAT as far as battle scenes go.
 

Birdie

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,516
I like what they did with Thorne in the show atleast.

Sure he an ass at the end because reasons (which sucks because he was someone I loved to hate and wanted to see him go "good") but in the books isn't he a complete loser who doesn't die or betray anyone, but is just incompetent.
 

Bragg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,298
Arkansas
I’d like to read how the books handle the amazing moment where Theon inspires a group to go get his sister back by getting kneed repeatedly in his non existent genitalia
 

Mihai_

Banned
Sep 25, 2018
216
Jaime IV

Jaime and Bronn were quickly surrounded. As Jaime stepped in front of Myrcella, the first girl lunged forward with a spear, missing him entirely. Jaime parried with his good hand, but as the duel commenced he knew the girl with the whip was right behind, and he was surely cornered. Yet the killing blow never came. Instead, both girls danced around him like a cock strutting for a mate, twirling their weapons without making a move. Jaime glanced at Bronn, whose blade was caught between the tiny daggers of the third girl. Jaime found himself confused as to why Bronn had not yet severed the girl's head from her scrawny shoulders, or why the other two warriors had yet to kill him despite possessing a clear advantage, but his questions remained unanswered as a large man with a spear entered the gardens, flanked by guards, and roared for them to stop in the name of the prince. Knowing they were outnumbered, Jaime dropped his weapon, finding himself more confused than when he had entered.
This is amazing haha
 

Neece

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,969
I’d like to read how the books handle the amazing moment where Theon inspires a group to go get his sister back by getting kneed repeatedly in his non existent genitalia
What's frustrating is that was almost a good scene.

When the guy yelled "stay down or I'll kill you", how cool would it have been if Theon just kept getting up and getting up and getting up because what is dead may never die. And the guy threatening to beat him stops beating him because he has gained respect for him. Not because he is physically strong. Not because he is a bad ass fighter. But because his willingness to get up and fight for Yara despite imminent death is Ironborn as hell. Could even serve as a contrast to his selfish blaze of glory speech he tried to give in season 2 that was rejected by the Iron Born.

But this time he is accepted and then they go to try and save their queen. End scene.

But instead they went with kick to the balls gives him super strength trope.

Sigh.
 
Last edited:

Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
15,552
Stannis I

He had the superior numbers and years of experience, but the Bolton bastard knew the north better than he ever could.

Tyene V

"But I am not a good girl," she thought to herself. "That is not what he needs." She whispered something salacious into Ser Bronn's ear.

Jon IV

"We will not survive this mission without Daenerys' help," Jon surmised. Gendry was the fastest in the party and could run back to Eastwatch within the hour. With any luck, the band could fight off the others until she arrived from Dragonstone.
Holy shit
 

SunnyD

Member
Dec 3, 2017
243
I can't believe someone took the time to make this. Yeesh.
The show is the show. The books are the books.
I understand that some of the criticisms of the show are dishonest and don't properly account for the change in mediums, but that doesn't mean that you can just hand wave all of the criticisms as mere differences either. Many of the complaints come from changes that were unnecessary and detrimental to the potential depth of the story. Smaller changes like the little moments of agency that showed Sansa's defiance in ASOS helped to flesh her out and allude to her further developments in the story. Don't even get me started on the Loras shit, which is exemplary of their view of "entertainment" that lacks the nuance of George's story. The portrayal of the Thenns as just monstrous cannibals is just stupid and actually goes against the overall trajectory of Jon's story, which is bridging the gap between the north and the south.

When you're dealing with an adaptation you can and should expect comparisons to the source material. While achieving a caliber even close to George's is definitely asking a lot, when the changes are unnecessary and detrimental to the overall story they're the most apt comparisons to make.
 

Defuser

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,677
I remember reading Clash of Kings where Tyrion rode his horse and slaying motherfuckers with his axe like a badass meanwhile TV Tyrion bonk some soldier's leg off and got clapped fast.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,195
Well you see, GRRM saw the HBO show and thought he could do better, so he made a series of really long and really boring books based on the showrunners' original idea, where multiple characters even have the same names (out of laziness, we can assume), and all kinds of weird irrelevant plotlines happen, featuring, among other things, Robb Stark's mom's wacky hijinks, Cersei's lesbian awakening, and Daenerys getting the liquid poops in a field.

Fortunately, after boring everyone else, GRRM finally managed to bore himself, so he abandoned his fanfiction project in the middle of writing the latest entry, The Wenches of Winchester or whatever. Now he rides on the coattails of the show's success and travels from convention to convention on a year-round circuit. I think he might actually be homeless.
 

barit

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
864
The books are so much better than the TV show it´s almost criminal. I try to convince everyone who likes GoT to read the books but in our today society reading seems like something only the elite does or I hear stupid excuses (I don´t have time is my fav). And yes there are a buttload full of different characters but that doesn´t matter. Even if the Stark household has 100 more characters who get introduced in the book than the TV Starks, who gives a crap? Just read it :D
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,195
I'm just glad the show found space for Loras Tyrell to get gay bashed and publicly shamed. The Knight of Flowers? More like the Knight of Being Gay in a Time When People Just Don't Do That!

The books are so much better than the TV show it´s almost criminal. I try to convince everyone who likes GoT to read the books but in our today society reading seems like something only the elite does or I hear stupid excuses (I don´t have time is my fav). And yes there are a buttload full of different characters but that doesn´t matter. Even if the Stark household has 100 more characters who get introduced in the book than the TV Starks, who gives a crap? Just read it :D
Reading in 2019.

 

AstronaughtE

Member
Nov 26, 2017
1,317
I can appreciate the differences. I feel like the show preserves the book experiences. The fact that it was so different probably even pushed pushed me along.

I can see how if you were going the opposite way, book>show, it would be frustrating. I kind of look at the show as a dramatic reenactment, or drunk history retelling now. I know the show might spoil the destination, but I also know the journey there will be completely different.
 
Nov 18, 2017
2,873
These "adaptation" quotes are hilarious - well done everyone.

I hope I live long enough to see ASOFAI adapted when Martin has actually finished the story.
Post-season 4, the show dumbed down massively. Littlefinger's court scene and Gendry's sprint all low points.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,195
What's frustrating is that was almost a good scene.

When the guy yelled "stay down or I'll kill you", how cool would it have been if Theon just kept getting up and getting up and getting up because what is dead may never die. And the guy threatening to beat him stops beating him because he has gained respect for him. Not because he is physically strong. Not because he is a bad ass fighter. But because his willingness to get up and fight for Yara despite imminent death is Ironborn as hell. Could even serve as a contrast to his selfish blaze of glory speech he tried to give in season 2 that was rejected by the Iron Born.

But this time he is accepted and then they go to try and save their queen. End scene.

But instead they went with kick to the balls gives him super strength trope.

Sigh.
Typical book reader, just trying to overcomplicate things with space-wasting inventions like themes and motives.

Turning Theon's mutilated shaft into a tropey joke was an ingenious feat of visual storytelling. GRRM picked some really smart guys to plagiarize from. It's just a shame he can't copy a good idea without embroidering it to like ten times its original size, and adding all sorts of parts that you have to think about. Maybe GRRM forgot how to laugh.
 
Last edited: