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Deleted member 48897

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It's almost like nobody has ever suggested, and nobody will ever suggest, that we should celebrate DJ Khaled's body, and that's why nobody posts on the topic of whether that would be advisable or not.

Nobody claims that DJ Khaled's existence is promoting an unhealthy standard for our youths either. Supporting Lizzo in this way can't be decoupled from decades of broadcasting that fat people aren't suitable to exist in public and their very existence is corrupting the populace. People are celebrating Lizzo for being fat because they are celebrating her not giving a shit
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,048
Not if our encourages people to live an unhealthy lifestyle which will kill them.
when youve seen people who have had to have parts of their body amputated because of self inflicted type 2 diabetes, you can see that there is nothing cool about obesity and it shouldn't be celebrated. (that's just 1 example of obesity linked health issues)

We shouldn't belittle people with weight problems, we should be supportive, but by no means should we encourage people to be fat.
Who is out here pushing for people to be fat? Other than some crazy deep forums on the internet.

It is always comes up but no on every posts examples other heavy people living their lives, where are these people with a platform saying you need to be fat? It seems like a problem people wish was true
 

MPrice

Alt account
Banned
Oct 18, 2019
654
"Fake outrage"? Sorry if I find it gross for someone in Michaels' position to shame somebody this way.

So let me ask you again, what does "artificially pushed" mean? And by which "certain people"?


Artificially pushed means that she is receiving attention from the powers that be in the music industry versus a more organic upbuild. I don't particularly subscribe to this but its a popular theory.

"Certain people" are black people. Maybe if you actually talked to black people outside of this place you'd have heard this.





Again I don't necessarily agree but she does come off as extra for a nefarious reason.
 

Deleted member 32561

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Nov 11, 2017
3,831
Jillian Micheals hosted a show where the goal was not health or fitness but merely "lose as much weight as you can as fast as you can" with no concern for anything else as easily evident from watching even 5 minutes of that terrible program and easily backed up by numerous articles detailing the brutal weight loss regimes the contestants go through, and how easily many regain the weight after. Whether you personally are genuinely concerned for obese people's health or not, she's the last person who should talk on such issues with her faux concerns about health, because she clearly doesn't give a shit given what she DOES support.

Lizzo is fucking fine, anyway, and people need to stop stressing.
 

Deleted member 3896

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Oct 25, 2017
5,815
Artificially pushed means that she is receiving attention from the powers that be in the music industry versus a more organic upbuild. I don't particularly subscribe to this but its a popular theory.

"Certain people" are black people. Maybe if you actually talked to black people outside of this place you'd have heard this.





lol wow.

So conspiratorial thinking (which you "don't subscribe to" but are perpetuating here anyway) + wacky assumptions about people you don't know.

Cool.
 

FILE_ID.DIZ

Banned
Jun 1, 2019
558
Fort Wayne
People acting like we haven't heard all this "but we're just trying to make sure nobody encourages unhealthy lifestyles!" shit before. FOHWTBS.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,325
Seattle
"Industry plant" usually can translate to "an artist I don't like who is getting more promotion than I think they deserve."

It's a rather silly term, but a lot of people don't mean it as some grand conspiracy. It's another way to say "this artist is only popular because the industry promoted them, they would not have been popular without that."

As opposed to artists who grow a following more organically, start off underground, etc.

But others do mean it as some grand conspiracy; and that is definitely silly.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
Artificially pushed means that she is receiving attention from the powers that be in the music industry versus a more organic upbuild. I don't particularly subscribe to this but its a popular theory.

"Certain people" are black people. Maybe if you actually talked to black people outside of this place you'd have heard this.





This reads like the same bullshit that people said about Young Thug being a plant to emasculate black men. You can't be pointing to threads shorter than this one literally called "conspiracy alley" as proof that black people collectively don't like her. I've never heard a single black person IRL say something like this
 

yckmd_

Member
Oct 27, 2017
116
Toronto
Artificially pushed means that she is receiving attention from the powers that be in the music industry versus a more organic upbuild. I don't particularly subscribe to this but its a popular theory.

lol this is so ridiculous; Lizzo has been around a long, long time and her build has been very organic. She performed in a number of groups before putting out Lizzobangers in 2013 with Lazerbeak. She was brought on tour by acts like Har Mar Superstar and Sleater-Kinney (saw her show with them in Toronto and it was dope) which built a lot of word-of-mouth hype. In 2014 she got a guest spot on a Prince album. By the time she put out Big Grrrl Small World, major publications were taking more and more note of her work and she was appearing on more year-end lists.

Anyone who says she popped off out of nowhere overnight is willfully ignoring the facts of her rise.
 

Deleted member 48897

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Oct 22, 2018
13,623
Everyone you see perform a set at the grammys has had huge industry backing. This should not be surprising or controversial. Lizzo's work is better discussed on its own merits, though we can talk about why she appeals to the powers that be within the industry. (My guess? She's easy to work with)
 

Kmonk

#TeamThierry
Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,689
US
I think I like big bodies, itty bitty bodies, Mississippi bodies, inner city bodies,
I like the pretty bodies with the bow tie
Get your nails did, let it blow dry
I like a big beard, I like a clean face, I don't discriminate, come and get a taste


Fucking this.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,123
Artificially pushed means that she is receiving attention from the powers that be in the music industry versus a more organic upbuild. I don't particularly subscribe to this but its a popular theory.

"Certain people" are black people. Maybe if you actually talked to black people outside of this place you'd have heard this.





Again I don't necessarily agree but she does come off as extra for a nefarious reason.


someone being on a label for a few years before "popping" is sort of how the industry works for most acts, though.
 

hendersonhank

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,390
Nobody claims that DJ Khaled's existence is promoting an unhealthy standard for our youths either. Supporting Lizzo in this way can't be decoupled from decades of broadcasting that fat people aren't suitable to exist in public and their very existence is corrupting the populace. People are celebrating Lizzo for being fat because they are celebrating her not giving a shit

And Jillian Michaels didn't claim Lizzo's existence is promoting an unhealthy standard for our youths, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. The host said she thought it was great that Lizzo's body was being celebrated. Michaels disagreed that that was a good thing.

Also personally I don't think "not giving a shit" about living an unhealthy lifestyle is something to be celebrated either.

Do you feel the same about the celebration of celebrities who are known for heavy drinking or drug use? It's great that they don't give a shit? I'm sure there are all kinds of factors contributing to what they do, I'm sure many of them are enjoying their lifestyle and "living their lives", and I'm even sure some are healthier than people who don't do those things. So do you get pissed when people say we shouldn't celebrate their not giving a shit about what they put in their bodies?
 

Delphine

Fen'Harel Enansal
Administrator
Mar 30, 2018
3,658
France
You're not wrong but the funny corollary to using weight as a proxy for health (as though, as I always say, health were a single thing and not a way to describe how the systems of the body are working together) is that thin people have trouble getting their chronic issues diagnosed because they present as healthy due to their thinness.


With all due respect, I don't think you have the faintest idea what you're talking about here.

Are thin people afraid of going to the doctor or to the hospital, in fear of the way medical trained professionals will treat them, with condescension, judgement, gaslight and disdain, every single time they would go consult? I don't think so.
Are thin people at risk of being misdiagnosed because of medical trained professionals taking only a quick glance at them, and coming to the conclusion that whatever ill they're feeling at the moment is linked to their fatness, no matter how illogical that sounds, and will thus ask of them to go on a diet most and foremost? I don't think so.
Have thin people been at huge health risks, or even died as a result of those misdiagnosis, because doctors told them to go lose some weight while they in fact were having extremely serious illnesses like cancers? I don't think so.
Are thin people afraid of going to a gynecologist in order to get a birth control pill prescription, because their doctors might make them feel extremely uncomfortable, and make it painfully known that they're disgusted you'd ask for it, because it implies that you, as a fat person, are sexually active and that someone do find you attractive enough to engage in sex with you? I don't think so.
Are thin people afraid of getting pregnant because they'll then have to suffer 9 months if terrible fat-shaming and overall belittling of their bodies and selves, as well as constantl guilt-tripping over the health of the baby they're carrying because of how fatphobic medical trained professionals can be with them? I don't think so.

Basically, you're trying to equate the plight of thin people forgetting to properly consult medical care in a regular way, like any normal well-adjusted person would, to the plight of fat people, willing to consult that same medical care, and taking the proper steps to do so, but being met with fatphobia at every turn, to the point that it then becomes a threat to their very own health and safety. This is also what fat people means, when we say "medical fatphobia kills".
So truly, honestly, this take ain't it, chief.


Also, there's a huge discussion to be had about the way fatphobia is deeply linked and intertwined with misogyny, and how it works so goddamn fucking well together, hand in hand. You don't see people getting worried over the health of Gabe Newell, or Notch, or CeeLo Green, or DJ Khaled, or over any overweight/fat/obese men, really. There's also another discussion to be had about the way obesity is also highly influenced by hormones, and how living in a world full of hormone-disrupting chemicals, will always leave women at a higher risks of becoming fat/obese than men, while also facing the biggest backlash socially for it. Truly, there are lots to write about here, and I could go on.
 
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Deleted member 279

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1,270
If only we could find a middle ground about not shaming others but also being able to admit that being very obese is not good
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,376
While being that big is unhealthy, I think it's less about celebrating her body, and more about women's diversity in media (and countering bullying).
Not if our encourages people to live an unhealthy lifestyle which will kill them.
when youve seen people who have had to have parts of their body amputated because of self inflicted type 2 diabetes, you can see that there is nothing cool about obesity and it shouldn't be celebrated. (that's just 1 example of obesity linked health issues)

We shouldn't belittle people with weight problems, we should be supportive, but by no means should we encourage people to be fat.
Strangers telling people they're fat, and giving unsolicited opinions about their health on social media, is more likely to further contribute to their death than save them from diabetes. If you want to point the finger at people encouraging morbid obesity, go after restaurants/fast food, and other segments of the food industry.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
Thinking more on it, wasn't this entire conversation already done when Adele and Meghan Trainor blew up?

And Jillian Michaels didn't claim Lizzo's existence is promoting an unhealthy standard for our youths, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. The host said she thought it was great that Lizzo's body was being celebrated. Michaels disagreed that that was a good thing.

Also personally I don't think "not giving a shit" about living an unhealthy lifestyle is something to be celebrated either.

Do you feel the same about the celebration of celebrities who are known for heavy drinking or drug use? It's great that they don't give a shit? I'm sure there are all kinds of factors contributing to what they do, I'm sure many of them are enjoying their lifestyle and "living their lives", and I'm even sure some are healthier than people who don't do those things. So do you get pissed when people say we shouldn't celebrate their not giving a shit about what they put in their bodies?
Her fatness isn't being celebrated in a vacuum though, it's in the context of her success in the music industry and a fatphobic society in general. It's not "being fat is good", it's "fat people can make it".
 

Camwi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,375
I somehow knew that there would some caveat, and when searching for who Lizzo was that became clear.

Adele is fine, Meghan Trainor too. Lizzo? No, that's too much.

You ain't being slick there chief.
Not defending Micheals, as I like big women, but this is a terrible post. Lizzo is much bigger than the two you mentioned.
 

hendersonhank

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,390
Thinking more on it, wasn't this entire conversation already done when Adele and Meghan Trainor blew up?


Her fatness isn't being celebrated in a vacuum though, it's in the context of her success in the music industry and a fatphobic society in general. It's not "being fat is good", it's "fat people can make it".

I get that and that's fine, but that's not the statement from the host that Michaels responded to. Michaels even specifically said "let's celebrate her music, let's celebrate her talent, I bet she's an awesome person....but celebrating her body specifically when it puts her at increased risk for diabetes etc is not something I can get on board with."
 

iareharSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,939
Not if our encourages people to live an unhealthy lifestyle which will kill them.
when youve seen people who have had to have parts of their body amputated because of self inflicted type 2 diabetes, you can see that there is nothing cool about obesity and it shouldn't be celebrated. (that's just 1 example of obesity linked health issues)

We shouldn't belittle people with weight problems, we should be supportive, but by no means should we encourage people to be fat.

As opposed to the status quo of these same industries pushing unrealistic body images in the opposite direction, resulting in eating disorders?
 

Deleted member 6230

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Oct 25, 2017
6,118
"Industry plant" usually can translate to "an artist I don't like who is getting more promotion than I think they deserve."

It's a rather silly term, but a lot of people don't mean it as some grand conspiracy. It's another way to say "this artist is only popular because the industry promoted them, they would not have been popular without that."

As opposed to artists who grow a following more organically, start off underground, etc.

But others do mean it as some grand conspiracy; and that is definitely silly.
Industry plant usually means artist with no grass roots support before becoming big which isn't the case for Lizzo
 

fontguy

Avenger
Oct 8, 2018
16,152
Dunno if I'll take hear for this but

1. You shouldn't shame people on their bodies. Be respectful.

but also


2. We shouldn't normalize that it is ok to be overweight/obese. I don't know what Lizzo's health is like. I assume if she's dancing her ass off on stage a bunch she's doing ok. But I don't like the idea that we should accept that being unhealthily overweight is ok

This post is the "I'm not racist, but-" of fat shaming.

All you people have literally nothing to say about actual contributors to the obesity epidemic (McDonald's still uses toys to sell their garbage to kids) but the moment a fat woman gets some attention and has the audacity to say "it's okay to love yourself," you all pop up to wring your hands about the dangers of self-acceptance.

"But I do think what McDonald's does is bad."

And when was the last time you said shit about it? It's like when people start talking about gun control following a mass shooting and Republicans, ever so concerned about our crisis of gun violence, all start pontificating about how important it is that we tackle mental health, the real culprit. The moment the gun control talk dies down, they mysteriously go quiet—but you can bet your ass they'll be back to voice their "concerns" the moment it picks back up again.

Just as y'all will express your very earnest, 100% sincere concerns about the ramifications of the next fat pop star being okay with her body.
 

CrankyJay

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,318
Not to mention extremely fake - with aspects of"professional" weight losers. Same kind you see in those weird before and after shots where the same photographer apparently grabbed shots of a water-weight chubby guy and then his vascular transformation - where he was a fitness model/athlete who gained quick weight on purpose to create the spectacle in a counterintuitive way.


Also Jillian Michaels is a business that depends on overweight people feeling like shit. She's hardly an uninvested observer, let alone qualified medical professional.

Not to mention the BL model is unsustainable and there's an article a few years back about how it actually did more harm than good to the contestants in that it tanked their metabolisms. Many of them have put the weight back on and then some.
 

hendersonhank

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,390
"But I do think what McDonald's does is bad."

And when was the last time you said shit about it?

I know, it's shameful how these same people stayed silent in all those threads about how we should celebrate a McDonald's diet, and in the threads about how we should celebrate those who proclaim "I eat McDonald's every damn day and I'm proud of it". Hypocrites.
 

Gaia Lanzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,669
Ah, the 'I'm just concerned for your health' vector of body shaming.
Yeah, that kinda route has always been bullshit. I forgot who said it, but it rings true that those who say "they are concerned for your health" are just trying to hide the fact they're assholes that are disgusted at looking at fat people but are trying to mask it as they care. If y'all are complete strangers, YOU DON'T CARE. The mental gymnastics people will do to make themselves "look justified while taking a faux-moral and faux-concerned highround".

At least those assholes who say, "I don't want to pay for their unhealthy lifestyles" are honest assholes, in the way Trump supporters are honest about being living pieces of shit.
 
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fontguy

Avenger
Oct 8, 2018
16,152
I know, it's shameful how these same people stayed silent in all those threads about how we should celebrate a McDonald's diet, and in the threads about how we should celebrate those who proclaim "I eat McDonald's every damn day and I'm proud of it". Hypocrites.

I'm not saying on this forum. I'm saying anywhere. In any context. I bet it's been a long time, if ever. Because the concern is obviously insincere. And also fuck your "this fat woman's mere visibility means we're being told to celebrate fatness" bullshit.
 

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
Also as someone actually in medicine I would like to chime in and say just because you are overweight, it does not automatically make you unhealthy. Obesity is just a risk factor for a lot of health concerns. Just because you have a normal BMI does not automatically you mean you can feel superior/healthier than those who are overweight. This whole celebrating obesity nonsense is a completely useless fight to have because it literally will make no difference. The only chance we have lower the rates of obesity is fixing the way the American food companies profit by making cheap shit food.
 

Chrome Hyena

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,768
This post is the "I'm not racist, but-" of fat shaming.

All you people have literally nothing to say about actual contributors to the obesity epidemic (McDonald's still uses toys to sell their garbage to kids) but the moment a fat woman gets some attention and has the audacity to say "it's okay to love yourself," you all pop up to wring your hands about the dangers of self-acceptance.

"But I do think what McDonald's does is bad."

And when was the last time you said shit about it? It's like when people start talking about gun control following a mass shooting and Republicans, ever so concerned about our crisis of gun violence, all start pontificating about how important it is that we tackle mental health, the real culprit. The moment the gun control talk dies down, they mysteriously go quiet—but you can bet your ass they'll be back to voice their "concerns" the moment it picks back up again.

Just as y'all will express your very earnest, 100% sincere concerns about the ramifications of the next fat pop star being okay with her body.
This is dumb.

You're basically saying if someone doesn't participate in every conversation about obesity and things which contribute, they shouldn't say anything about obese people.

It's no different than telling someone in a child abuse thread thread they shouldn't be outraged and stop being hypocritical because they use electronics which definitely had some kind of child labor involved in one of it's components, and since we don't boycott apple we should be quiet. Dumb argument.
 

Deleted member 6230

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6,118
Also as someone actually in medicine I would like to chime in and say just because you are overweight, it does not automatically make you unhealthy. Obesity is just a risk factor for a lot of health concerns. Just because you have a normal BMI does not automatically you mean you can feel superior/healthier than those who are overweight. This whole celebrating obesity nonsense is a completely useless fight to have because it literally will make no difference. The only chance we have lower the rates of obesity is fixing the way the American food companies profit by making cheap shit food.

Preach
 

Deleted member 48897

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Oct 22, 2018
13,623
With all due respect, I don't think you have the faintest idea what you're talking about here.

My comment was flip but not entirely without basis for thin people with chronic ailments. It's certainly not as big of an issue but I was using it as an attempt to highlight ways that fatphobia in the medical establishment lowers health outcomes for everyone, not just the targets of the negative bias.

Honestly it just sucks in general especially because uterus-havers are some of the most common targets of this sort of haphazard diagnosis. Hell, my wife probably has PCOS (she meets all of the symptoms from what I can tell but since the surgery she had a few months ago she's been on the phone with the benefits providers to find a primary care doctor for dealing with some complications of that and still hasn't been able to get an appointment), and that's something you can't jog away or cure with a daily salad.

(But this actually is why I haven't gone out of my way to see a doctor in years. Despite walking a mile most days to get to work and eating decently well I was still tired, in pain, and having issues with breathing and got it all diagnosed as 'anxiety' and found treating that, unsurprisingly, unhelpful. I have no doubt my pain was causing anxiety, but that's because I didn't -- still don't! -- know what caused it at, and now that I actually have to look for a doctor to get treatment I'm too frustrated to give a shit to bother. In any case while I don't entirely agree with your suggestion that this doesn't happen, I agree the size of the affect is vastly different and needs to be given more attention. I've stopped smoking, I'm drinking less. I'm also significantly less active but I feel better aside from the pain.)
 

Deleted member 2779

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Oct 25, 2017
4,045
Honestly you only need to think as far as considering what is more conducive to change: self loathing or self acceptance. It's pretty transparent that people like the one in the OP want to keep the status quo of the former in the veneer of caring.
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
Look at her behavior in public. Her babble on social media. How is she not a modern day stepin fetchit? She knows full well that white America loves to see ratchet, buffoonish black caricatures and is playing that angle to the hilt. Maybe she's talented. Cool. Then, why not sing and stop with the extra shit? Jill Scott is a gorgeous big black woman, if you're at a loss for other big black woman celebrities of the modern era. She still fills arenas, does a little acting, and carries herself with grace and poise, the complete opposite of Lizzo.

Yeah, Jill Scott -- I mean I'm 36. Figured we'd have another example after all this time.

I do see theres room for all types. I don't like tyler perry dressing up like a woman and being a buffoon, but I'm shocked at the % of black people that enjoy him/and his other movies. It miffed me because I feel like its some trial by fire that black hollywood men used to have to do, more so than a man wearing a dress. However, with lizzo being divisive, I think thats sort of an equality in a way. We can have good examples, and your opinion of her. Theres variety there, we aren't a monolith and I'm not sure Lizzo is in a position to be more or less influential than the others you feel are better examples.

Spoiler alert though, it doesn't matter how we act. We will and always will be called n-words. They do it to Michelle Obama, Theyll do it to anyone you named. I don't see it being a negative in that column.
 

JDSN

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,129
Artificially pushed means that she is receiving attention from the powers that be in the music industry versus a more organic upbuild. I don't particularly subscribe to this but its a popular theory.

"Certain people" are black people. Maybe if you actually talked to black people outside of this place you'd have heard this.





Again I don't necessarily agree but she does come off as extra for a nefarious reason.


Fuck outta here with that Coli bullshit.
 

PawPrints

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,442
Man, I saw lizzo open for Florence + The Machine which felt like it was just yesterday, but was actually almost 2 years ago. And now she's way more popular than ever, time flies
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,011
people legitimately do not want to see fat people be happy. didn't her partner die in the gym?
 
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