"Why Are We Celebrating Lizzo's Body?"-Jillian Micheals

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fontguy

Avenger
Oct 8, 2018
2,730
You're basically saying if someone doesn't participate in every conversation about obesity and things which contribute, they shouldn't say anything about obese people.
No, I’m explicitly saying that this concern is a transparent excuse obviously insincere people use to express their disgust towards fat people. Dumb reading.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,535
I think unless you're going up to every smoker or drinker or extreme sports/adventurer and shaming them for their Unhealthy Lifestyle Choices (and probably risking getting clocked to boot lol), you should probably shut up about your "concern" regarding people's weight health when it comes to fat people. I think they kind of know where they at.
 

Yaboosh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,006
Fat shaming will likely be taken to a whole new level if we ever get universal healthcare off the ground.
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,836
It's not helpful to go after people based on their weight. I think a better point that Jillian almost made, but certainly didn't, would be that too much of a woman's value is put into physical appearance. When we hear about Sofia Loren now the narrative is that even at 85 years old she's still beautiful. Why should someone at that age even have to worry about being beautiful? She should be lauded for the work she did and her career rather than her beauty. Sean Connery who is a similar age doesn't have his value tied to his physical looks now that he's in his mid 80s the same way that she does. That type of inconsistency is a problem and should be called out. That's not what Jillian did here, however.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,407
This post is the “I’m not racist, but-“ of fat shaming.

All you people have literally nothing to say about actual contributors to the obesity epidemic (McDonald’s still uses toys to sell their garbage to kids) but the moment a fat woman gets some attention and has the audacity to say “it’s okay to love yourself,” you all pop up to wring your hands about the dangers of self-acceptance.

“But I do think what McDonald’s does is bad.”

And when was the last time you said shit about it? It’s like when people start talking about gun control following a mass shooting and Republicans, ever so concerned about our crisis of gun violence, all start pontificating about how important it is that we tackle mental health, the real culprit. The moment the gun control talk dies down, they mysteriously go quiet—but you can bet your ass they’ll be back to voice their “concerns” the moment it picks back up again.

Just as y’all will express your very earnest, 100% sincere concerns about the ramifications of the next fat pop star being okay with her body.
I got no problem with her being ok with her own body.

I got a problem with people saying there is zero things wrong with being overweight and its a normal healthy thing.

Because it is not.

I think it can be a blurry line but for me personally its the distinction of

I would never fat shame an individual
but I will fat shame our society

We need to strive to be healthier. Only reason we are talking about Lizzo is because thats what this thread is about.

If this thread was about new obesity or health statistics I'd probably be talking about how we need to have better health education and calorie/nutrition information available.
 

CatAssTrophy

Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,670
Texas
Not to mention extremely fake - with aspects of"professional" weight losers. Same kind you see in those weird before and after shots where the same photographer apparently grabbed shots of a water-weight chubby guy and then his vascular transformation - where he was a fitness model/athlete who gained quick weight on purpose to create the spectacle in a counterintuitive way.

Also Jillian Michaels is a business that depends on overweight people feeling like shit. She's hardly an uninvested observer, let alone qualified medical professional.
Couldn't have summarized it better. Her show was heart breaking and I consider her a vile person.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
4,387
With all due respect, I don't think you have the faintest idea what you're talking about here.

Are thin people afraid of going to the doctor or to the hospital, in fear of the way medical trained professionals will treat them, with condescension, judgement, gaslight and disdain, every single time they would go consult? I don't think so.
Are thin people at risk of being misdiagnosed because of medical trained professionals taking only a quick glance at them, and coming to the conclusion that whatever ill they're feeling at the moment is linked to their fatness, no matter how illogical that sounds, and will thus ask of them to go on a diet most and foremost? I don't think so.
Have thin people been at huge health risks, or even died as a result of those misdiagnosis, because doctors told them to go lose some weight while they in fact were having extremely serious illnesses like cancers? I don't think so.
Are thin people afraid of going to a gynecologist in order to get a birth control pill prescription, because their doctors might make them feel extremely uncomfortable, and make it painfully known that they're disgusted you'd ask for it, because it implies that you, as a fat person, are sexually active and that someone do find you attractive enough to engage in sex with you? I don't think so.
Are thin people afraid of getting pregnant because they'll then have to suffer 9 months if terrible fat-shaming and overall belittling of their bodies and selves, as well as constantl guilt-tripping over the health of the baby they're carrying because of how fatphobic medical trained professionals can be with them? I don't think so.

Basically, you're trying to equate the plight of thin people forgetting to properly consult medical care in a regular way, like any normal well-adjusted person would, to the plight of fat people, willing to consult that same medical care, and taking the proper steps to do so, but being met with fatphobia at every turn, to the point that it then becomes a threat to their very own health and safety. This is also what fat people means, when we say "medical fatphobia kills".
So truly, honestly, this take ain't it, chief.
My thin wife would certainly answer 'yes' to most of this. Her second pregnancy specifically was fraught with thin-shaming and bad medical advice wrongly predicated on her weight.
 

fontguy

Avenger
Oct 8, 2018
2,730
I got no problem with her being ok with her own body.

I got a problem with people saying there is zero things wrong with being overweight and its a normal healthy thing.

Because it is not.

I think it can be a blurry line but for me personally its the distinction of

I would never fat shame an individual
but I will fat shame our society

We need to strive to be healthier. Only reason we are talking about Lizzo is because thats what this thread is about.

If this thread was about new obesity or health statistics I'd probably be talking about how we need to have better health education and calorie/nutrition information available.
Question: do you think most fat people out there 1. think it’s healthy to be fat, and 2. don’t actively want to be thinner?

Your comment reads to me like “I won’t try to make specific people feel ashamed of themselves, but I will broadly reinforce the general notion and popular stance that being fat = shameful,” when the latter is the driving force behind the shame individual fat people feel.


It is equally toxic and unhelpful.
 

Slayven

I don’t know what you’re talking about
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
42,088
Yeah, Jill Scott -- I mean I'm 36. Figured we'd have another example after all this time.

I do see theres room for all types. I don't like tyler perry dressing up like a woman and being a buffoon, but I'm shocked at the % of black people that enjoy him/and his other movies. It miffed me because I feel like its some trial by fire that black hollywood men used to have to do, more so than a man wearing a dress. However, with lizzo being divisive, I think thats sort of an equality in a way. We can have good examples, and your opinion of her. Theres variety there, we aren't a monolith and I'm not sure Lizzo is in a position to be more or less influential than the others you feel are better examples.

Spoiler alert though, it doesn't matter how we act. We will and always will be called n-words. They do it to Michelle Obama, Theyll do it to anyone you named. I don't see it being a negative in that column.
True equality is when we can have black jared letos, asian jimmy fallons, and lgbtq bill mahr
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,407
Question: do you think most fat people out there 1. think it’s healthy to be fat, and 2. don’t actively want to be thinner?

Your comment reads to me like “I won’t try to make specific people feel ashamed of themselves, but I will broadly reinforce the general notion and popular stance that being fat = shameful,” when the latter is the driving force behind the shame individual fat people feel.


It is equally toxic and unhelpful.

I can't tell you what these people REALLY think deep down. But there are 100% people out there that outwardly say their weight is 100% normal and healthy. That there is nothing wrong with being overweight. The "I love food, exercise sucks, so I love my body and lifestyle the way it is"

Be nice to people. But I honestly don't have an issue with there being a stigma for being overweight. Coming from personal experience, it was what made me (and is currently making me) try to get more fit. I play some sports from time to time. I go skiing often. I love to hike. My extra weight is not impeding me from doing what I love. But I feel self conscious about the extra weight I do have. That is what is motivating me. Not slightly better health benefits.

If society was 100% in on what my body looked like I wouldn't bother until some health scare forced my hand. Food is awesome. Beer is awesome. I'm now trying to get even better because I'm (at 27) feeling some tightness in my chest I'm going to get checked out tomorrow. If it turns out to be some heart issue for eating unhealthy I'm gonna be really mad at myself for not being more motivated to get better.
 

hank_tree

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,364
I can't tell you what these people REALLY think deep down. But there are 100% people out there that outwardly say their weight is 100% normal and healthy. That there is nothing wrong with being overweight. The "I love food, exercise sucks, so I love my body and lifestyle the way it is"

Be nice to people. But I honestly don't have an issue with there being a stigma for being overweight. Coming from personal experience, it was what made me (and is currently making me) try to get more fit. I play some sports from time to time. I go skiing often. I love to hike. My extra weight is not impeding me from doing what I love. But I feel self conscious about the extra weight I do have. That is what is motivating me. Not slightly better health benefits.

If society was 100% in on what my body looked like I wouldn't bother until some health scare forced my hand. Food is awesome. Beer is awesome. I'm now trying to get even better because I'm (at 27) feeling some tightness in my chest I'm going to get checked out tomorrow. If it turns out to be some heart issue for eating unhealthy I'm gonna be really mad at myself for not being more motivated to get better.
Don’t worry. You aren’t gonna have a sudden heart problem at 27 from being a bit overweight. It’s probably anxiety related.
 

Delphine

Baby, Pink is my favourite part
Moderator
Mar 30, 2018
2,166
France
My comment was flip but not entirely without basis for thin people with chronic ailments. It's certainly not as big of an issue but I was using it as an attempt to highlight ways that fatphobia in the medical establishment lowers health outcomes for everyone, not just the targets of the negative bias.

Honestly it just sucks in general especially because uterus-havers are some of the most common targets of this sort of haphazard diagnosis. Hell, my wife probably has PCOS (she meets all of the symptoms from what I can tell but since the surgery she had a few months ago she's been on the phone with the benefits providers to find a primary care doctor for dealing with some complications of that and still hasn't been able to get an appointment), and that's something you can't jog away or cure with a daily salad.

(But this actually is why I haven't gone out of my way to see a doctor in years. Despite walking a mile most days to get to work and eating decently well I was still tired, in pain, and having issues with breathing and got it all diagnosed as 'anxiety' and found treating that, unsurprisingly, unhelpful. I have no doubt my pain was causing anxiety, but that's because I didn't -- still don't! -- know what caused it at, and now that I actually have to look for a doctor to get treatment I'm too frustrated to give a shit to bother. In any case while I don't entirely agree with your suggestion that this doesn't happen, I agree the size of the affect is vastly different and needs to be given more attention. I've stopped smoking, I'm drinking less. I'm also significantly less active but I feel better aside from the pain.)

Fair enough, I read your comment in a way that didn't fully encompass what you meant. And I agree with you about the way women and owners of uterus, are treated by the medical staff, and it utterly and properly sucks, and can lead to life-threatening situations all around. It is indeed a matter of how much worse it gets, how much often it happens, as soon as you also happen to be fat/obese. I feel for your wife as PCOS is so commonly misdiagnosed, a lot of my friends and family struggled with the bare minimum of having it recognized as the reason of their debilitating pain and monthly ailment. It's infuriating knowing that if it was something cis men would deal with, proper medical research about it would have happened a long time ago.

And I know it sucks, and it's hard, and you have to deal with a lot of shitiness, but it is also so important to take care of one's health. I tend to rely on a network of friend, as well as political feminist circles, in order to find proper medical professionals that would be inclusive enough for me to feel safe consulting them. I know that in my country, there are websites and app to signal-boost feminist, fat-friendly, LGBT-friendly, overall inclusive and kind medical professionals, and that's been very helpful, it's good that such things exist, so that we as people get less afraid about this whole ordeal, and get the medical care we deserve.

My thin wife would certainly answer 'yes' to most of this. Her second pregnancy specifically was fraught with thin-shaming and bad medical advice wrongly predicated on her weight.

And your thin wife would be right, because medically-trained professionals are also highly sexist and misogynists in the way they treat women in general. But that's still highly missing and dismissing my point saying how much much worse it gets when those women are also fat/obese, on top of just being women. Just like it also gets way worse for black women medically, than it does for white women.
 
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Stat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,580
I got no problem with her being ok with her own body.

I got a problem with people saying there is zero things wrong with being overweight and its a normal healthy thing.

Because it is not.

I think it can be a blurry line but for me personally its the distinction of

I would never fat shame an individual
but I will fat shame our society

We need to strive to be healthier. Only reason we are talking about Lizzo is because thats what this thread is about.

If this thread was about new obesity or health statistics I'd probably be talking about how we need to have better health education and calorie/nutrition information available.
I agree with this. Would never target an individual (behind their back or say it to their face). But if someone said to me "Hey, I'm thinking of being overewight or normal weight?" I would 100% say its better to be normal weight with a healthy active lifestyle where you eat at least 2/3rd of your meals healthy.

And I say that as someone who was a little overweight and not in a healthy active lifestyle. Got super healthy, then deviated and am now back on track.
 

fontguy

Avenger
Oct 8, 2018
2,730
I can't tell you what these people REALLY think deep down. But there are 100% people out there that outwardly say their weight is 100% normal and healthy. That there is nothing wrong with being overweight. The "I love food, exercise sucks, so I love my body and lifestyle the way it is"

Be nice to people. But I honestly don't have an issue with there being a stigma for being overweight. Coming from personal experience, it was what made me (and is currently making me) try to get more fit. I play some sports from time to time. I go skiing often. I love to hike. My extra weight is not impeding me from doing what I love. But I feel self conscious about the extra weight I do have. That is what is motivating me. Not slightly better health benefits.

If society was 100% in on what my body looked like I wouldn't bother until some health scare forced my hand. Food is awesome. Beer is awesome. I'm now trying to get even better because I'm (at 27) feeling some tightness in my chest I'm going to get checked out tomorrow. If it turns out to be some heart issue for eating unhealthy I'm gonna be really mad at myself for not being more motivated to get better.

If your actual concern is getting people better, getting them healthy and fit, you would have an issue.


But you don’t, because, as I said before, you don’t actually care.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,853
Growing up as the fat kid, I now feel grateful that I was bullied to the point where I decided to make enough life changes that ultimately bettered my health into becoming the health conscious man I am today. I often equate poor diet and a lack of exercise to being just as dangerous as smoking cigarettes, which I also struggled with for some time.

I would never mock someone for their weight, but I'd be lying if I didnt have those thoughts where I wish I could educate them. It's not a healthy life choice.

I dont understand Lizzo's appeal but I'm very aware that I'm nowhere near her target demographic as a metalhead.
 

Sagroth

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,836
Some folks, like Gillian, need to understand that it’s possible to be both fat and attractive without being a fetish object.

Also, I seem to recall a stretch of time where Gillian Michaels photos were everywhere, with like all of them showing the v-line around her midriff. Like, I get that she’s proud to have an arrow pointing to her vagina, but come on.
 

Bucca

Member
Oct 25, 2017
939
Some folks, like Gillian, need to understand that it’s possible to be both fat and attractive without being a fetish object.

Also, I seem to recall a stretch of time where Gillian Michaels photos were everywhere, with like all of them showing the v-line around her midriff. Like, I get that she’s proud to have an arrow pointing to her vagina, but come on.
Adonis crease shaming will not be tolerated here good sir
 

Lord of Ostia

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,566
Growing up as the fat kid, I now feel grateful that I was bullied to the point where I decided to make enough life changes that ultimately bettered my health into becoming the health conscious man I am today. I often equate poor diet and a lack of exercise to being just as dangerous as smoking cigarettes, which I also struggled with for some time.

I would never mock someone for their weight, but I'd be lying if I didnt have those thoughts where I wish I could educate them. It's not a healthy life choice.

I dont understand Lizzo's appeal but I'm very aware that I'm nowhere near her target demographic as a metalhead.
You really shouldn't be grateful for that, bullying like that typically doesn't actually help people lose weight, it just gives them more issues/trauma
 

hendersonhank

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,354
I’m not saying on this forum. I’m saying anywhere. In any context. I bet it’s been a long time, if ever. Because the concern is obviously insincere.
People say McDonalds is trash all the time. Possibly not as often as you like because these same people are not generally in the vicinity of others saying we should celebrate a McDonalds diet -- because that's not something that actually happens, here or anywhere.

And also fuck your “this fat woman’s mere visibility means we’re being told to celebrate fatness“ bullshit.
Why do you insist on repeating this strawman when nobody in this thread or in the clip that is the subject of this thread said anything of the sort?
 

Lord of Ostia

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,566
I realize people already got banned for this but wtf at all the "Lizzo is a minstrel act" shit in this thread. What the hell is wrong with people?
 

Lord of Ostia

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,566
People say McDonalds is trash all the time. Possibly not as often as you like because these same people are not generally in the vicinity of others saying we should celebrate a McDonalds diet -- because that's not something that actually happens, here or anywhere.



Why do you insist on repeating this strawman when nobody in this thread or in the clip that is the subject of this thread said anything of the sort?
Uh...how is that a strawmen when Jillian Michael's passive aggressively suggested Lizzo wont be feeling body positive "when she gets diabetes"? Please explain how that's not just an extreme level of body shaming
 

opus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
509
If your actual concern is getting people better, getting them healthy and fit, you would have an issue.
"But what about fat people's health?!" is just "But what about black-on-black crime?!" in a different wrapper.

But if someone said to me "Hey, I'm thinking of being overewight or normal weight?"
Yes, this is a normal conversation people have. "Hey friend, should I be at a societally acceptable weight, or should I be at a weight that society will judge and shame? I just can't figure it out!"
 
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muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,836
a sunken pirate ship
Why do you insist on repeating this strawman when nobody in this thread or in the clip that is the subject of this thread said anything of the sort?
It's funny to me that we had decades of research that people who drink a glass of wine at dinner are healthier than those that don't when the analysis was done outside a controlled trial. When actually looking at populations on really large scales -- like this one that says 195 locations -- suddenly that evidence looks like it was all built on weak correlations due to sampling biases (i.e., people with money and already pretty good health).

There's a lot of health best-practices built on questionable reasoning like this, and given, for example, that Lizzo lives and does most of her performances in a country known for extremely high health care expenditures that don't actually lead to better outcomes for its citizens, the concern trolling coming from some people in this thread is awfully transparent, that very little to none of this is actually about health. You'll have to do a lot of work to convince me this is actually a bigger issue than the exorbitant out-of-pocket costs for insulin.
 

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,392
Once again, the problem is the American diet and until we can fix the toxic shit coming out of food companies people society is not going to get better. Yes we should always try and promote peoppe being healthier but the root cause of the obesity issue is not coddling obese people. This the same argument people make that actually black people are inclinded to criminality.
 

shuno

Member
Oct 28, 2017
482
User Banned (1 Week): Rationalizing fatshaming, Inflammatory false equivalence, Community generalizations
In every other thread you see scientific papers and links posted to make a point, but here we ignore scientific facts about overweight and related mortality rates and call, maybe, valid criticism "fat shaming"? Well...
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,407
If your actual concern is getting people better, getting them healthy and fit, you would have an issue.


But you don’t, because, as I said before, you don’t actually care.
I mean in a way you are right. If you point to some random obese person with health problems that doesn't want to change and ask "do you care that person is unhealthy and fat"

I'd say no, he can eat himself to oblivion as far as I'm concerned. I am concerned with how society views that behavior though. That's the distinction I'm having trouble getting across to you.

While there may be people (like @deftones are cool) that being bullied into better shape works. I can understand for many others it doesn't work or its counterintuitive. Meaning you get stuck in a cycle of "fat shaming made me depressed so I ate in bed watching tv all day to cope, which made me fat which then so on and so on"

In that first article it makes the distinction that fat shaming is

"Examples of discrimination include being treated disrespectfully, receiving poor service in shops, and being harassed.* "

That shit is not acceptable. What I DO think is acceptable is us as a society promoting healthy bodies and lifestyles as what to aim for. What I want to avoid is society saying "It's ok to be overweight and over eat, food is great!"

I actually tried to find a study or something of what is the best motivator for weight loss or staying in shape. Unfortunately couldn't find anything (everything was just like "find inspirational quotes, set realistic goals,") so I'd be curious if any such surveys/studies have been done.

So I will go on anecdotal evidence from myself and friends. I think some people do it for health benefits but if I'm being honest I don't think that is the number one reason. The number one reason is stigma of being fat, and the allure of confidence for being fit and what society perceives as "good looking"

America is not exactly getting skinnier. We are also exporting our overconsumption culture to more developing countries causing obesity issues within them. We need to all eat healthier. Unfortunately outside of an actual health scare, saying "reduced chance of diabetes" isn't a great motivator. Feeling better about yourself is. But if society decides that fat bodies are also just as universally attractive, we would lack the motivation to be healthier.

I'm ok with Lizzo and others being confident in their bodies. That's great. But I don't want to normalize bodies like that as being something to look up to.

In a perfect world people would just not get overweight in the first place. It's always depressing when I see like a sub 12 year old already fat. That is 100% a parenting fail.


Don’t worry. You aren’t gonna have a sudden heart problem at 27 from being a bit overweight. It’s probably anxiety related.
Man I hope so. I've never had issues with anxiety before so that would be new to me.
 

Lesath

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,062
In every other thread you see scientific papers and links posted to make a point, but here we ignore scientific facts about overweight and related mortality rates and call, maybe, valid criticism "fat shaming"? Well...
You're also ignoring, perhaps, that fat people know the risks, and that education and "criticism" about obesity in the past few decades hasn't been working, as evidenced by fontguy's post. Given that, the "scientific" thing to do test an alternative hypothesis and create an environment of social support that has worked for other addiction-based issues.
 

IMCaprica

Member
Aug 1, 2019
212
The entire health angle is a gaslight. Health has literally nothing to do with physical attraction or having respect for those who find happiness and comfort with their own bodies. People who talk like that just want an excuse to shame people and it’s as blatant as it is pathetic.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
3,962
In every other thread you see scientific papers and links posted to make a point, but here we ignore scientific facts about overweight and related mortality rates and call, maybe, valid criticism "fat shaming"? Well...
Well what is the goal exactly? All of us coming together and saying, "Lizzo is fat and unhealthy as are all fat people! Here are the documents to prove it!" Ok? then what? we solve obesity? Lizzo is a person and what she promotes is positivity. She's not an advertisement for McDonald's (a thing that actually exists) why don't you go and make a thread about that?
 

Loanshark

Member
Nov 8, 2017
723
Question: do you think most fat people out there 1. think it’s healthy to be fat, and 2. don’t actively want to be thinner?

Your comment reads to me like “I won’t try to make specific people feel ashamed of themselves, but I will broadly reinforce the general notion and popular stance that being fat = shameful,” when the latter is the driving force behind the shame individual fat people feel.


It is equally toxic and unhelpful.
Well sure, but the same type of defense could then be used by for example comedians making jokes at the expense of a minority or a group that is considered to targeted. The comedian could say "well it was only a joke, do you really think people are going to take it seriously and believe the outrageous stuff I say?" Im not saying that reasoning is without merit, but its absolutely hated here on Era. The point is, one could certainly argue that the normalization of obesity by "celebrating" those types of bodies can certainly muddy the waters.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,836
a sunken pirate ship
You're also ignoring, perhaps, that fat people know the risks, and that education and "criticism" about obesity in the past few decades hasn't been working, as evidenced by fontguy's post. Given that, the "scientific" thing to do test an alternative hypothesis and create an environment of social support that has worked for other addiction-based issues.
Hell, since it's a reasonably safe conclusion one of the causes of fat gain is reactions to stress maybe it's not a great idea to increase the stress fat people have to deal with by treating them as socially or, hell, existentially criminal. Or, y'know, the utterly predictable paternalistic concern trolling (my suspicion is that there's a strong link between being fat and having CPTSD, but like hell being fat causes CPTSD)
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,201
Mount Airy, MD
Well sure, but the same type of defense could then be used by for example comedians making jokes at the expense of a minority or a group that is considered to targeted. The comedian could say "well it was only a joke, do you really think people are going to take it seriously and believe the outrageous stuff I say?" Im not saying that reasoning is without merit, but its absolutely hated here on Era. The point is, one could certainly argue that the normalization of obesity by "celebrating" those types of bodies can have an negative effect on whats acceptable.
One can't make that argument because it's observably false. Society isn't even remotely trying to make obesity normal, and yet it keeps on increasing. It's almost like there's something more at play here, from widespread food deserts, subsidies and advertising and economic realities that make shittier, more unhealthy food be purchased more than healthy options, etc. And that's not even addressing the increasingly obvious fact that obesity is a *SYMPTOM* of other things, not the cause (though obviously it has effects). We continue to fail so hard because we're not addressing the fact that so many people being overweight is clearly about more than any one person, and sure as shit isn't about "society normalizing obesity". We treat obese people like shit, and sure as hell aren't normalizing it.

Further, shame does not work. It doesn't create good outcomes and sure as shit doesn't help people get healthier.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,601
I realize people already got banned for this but wtf at all the "Lizzo is a minstrel act" shit in this thread. What the hell is wrong with people?
I’m not going to go as far as a minstrel act but I do have issues with how she’s all of a sudden promoted as the face of black music at every awards show not done by BET. But that’s another discussion for the off topic black era thread
 
Nov 7, 2017
550
Why are we listening to this person? Lizzo makes people feel good and I’ll add she has been donating and visiting food bank centres in Australia during her tour due to the bushfire crisis. She is a gift.
 

FILE_ID.DIZ

Banned
Jun 1, 2019
558
Fort Wayne
But if someone said to me "Hey, I'm thinking of being overewight or normal weight?".
Because it's entirely a choice and this is a thing actual people would say.

Iesus Xristos, what even do you think happens to make people gain weight? Do you think we say "I think I'll become overweight and unhealthy because I see famous people who are"?
 

Loanshark

Member
Nov 8, 2017
723
One can't make that argument because it's observably false. Society isn't even remotely trying to make obesity normal, and yet it keeps on increasing. It's almost like there's something more at play here, from widespread food deserts, subsidies and advertising and economic realities that make shittier, more unhealthy food be purchased more than healthy options, etc. And that's not even addressing the increasingly obvious fact that obesity is a *SYMPTOM* of other things, not the cause (though obviously it has effects). We continue to fail so hard because we're not addressing the fact that so many people being overweight is clearly about more than any one person, and sure as shit isn't about "society normalizing obesity". We treat obese people like shit, and sure as hell aren't normalizing it.

Further, shame does not work. It doesn't create good outcomes and sure as shit doesn't help people get healthier.
Pointing out negative effects of obesity in a general sense is not shaming. Certainly, the primary cause for obesity is obviously nutrition & lifestyle, but thats a trivial thing to point out. Attitudes towards obesity and its increasing prevalence could certainly lead to a normalization of unhealthy livestyles however, especially in areas where the rates of obesity are high. That is then is added on top of poor nutrition & overeating, which are the primary causes. So its clearly not observably false, its simply not the main villain so to speak.
 

LATOTHEBAY

Member
Sep 26, 2019
13
I dont know who this lady is but she makes a fair point. As someone who struggled with my weight in the past...I hate seeing obesity celebrated.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
15,557
Some of these posts are fucking vile. People concern trolling over weight over and over. Jesus.
 

Water

Member
Oct 30, 2017
222
You aren’t her doctor so you have no idea how “healthy” she is.
I don't see anything wrong with being somewhat "unhealthy", most people are, and it's your body. There are plenty of thin unhealthy people out there, and fit looking unhealthy people, but lets not act purposely ignorant for the sake of body positivity.

But she's clearly overweight, which isn't healthy. Same goes for the opposite spectrum of something very thin. You don't need to be a doctor to see that.
 
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