No, I'm explicitly saying that this concern is a transparent excuse obviously insincere people use to express their disgust towards fat people. Dumb reading.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
"Why Are We Celebrating Lizzo's Body?"-Jillian Micheals
- Thread starter Deleted member 32563
- Start date
- Status
No, I'm explicitly saying that this concern is a transparent excuse obviously insincere people use to express their disgust towards fat people. Dumb reading.
I think unless you're going up to every smoker or drinker or extreme sports/adventurer and shaming them for their Unhealthy Lifestyle Choices (and probably risking getting clocked to boot lol), you should probably shut up about your "concern" regarding people's weight health when it comes to fat people. I think they kind of know where they at.
Fat shaming will likely be taken to a whole new level if we ever get universal healthcare off the ground.
It's not helpful to go after people based on their weight. I think a better point that Jillian almost made, but certainly didn't, would be that too much of a woman's value is put into physical appearance. When we hear about Sofia Loren now the narrative is that even at 85 years old she's still beautiful. Why should someone at that age even have to worry about being beautiful? She should be lauded for the work she did and her career rather than her beauty. Sean Connery who is a similar age doesn't have his value tied to his physical looks now that he's in his mid 80s the same way that she does. That type of inconsistency is a problem and should be called out. That's not what Jillian did here, however.
The other Biggest Loser trainer? It was a heart attach, and he's hosting the revival of the show which is starting up in a few weeks or so.
I got no problem with her being ok with her own body.
I got a problem with people saying there is zero things wrong with being overweight and its a normal healthy thing.
Because it is not.
I think it can be a blurry line but for me personally its the distinction of
I would never fat shame an individual
but I will fat shame our society
We need to strive to be healthier. Only reason we are talking about Lizzo is because thats what this thread is about.
If this thread was about new obesity or health statistics I'd probably be talking about how we need to have better health education and calorie/nutrition information available.
Couldn't have summarized it better. Her show was heart breaking and I consider her a vile person.
My thin wife would certainly answer 'yes' to most of this. Her second pregnancy specifically was fraught with thin-shaming and bad medical advice wrongly predicated on her weight.
Question: do you think most fat people out there 1. think it's healthy to be fat, and 2. don't actively want to be thinner?
Your comment reads to me like "I won't try to make specific people feel ashamed of themselves, but I will broadly reinforce the general notion and popular stance that being fat = shameful," when the latter is the driving force behind the shame individual fat people feel.
It is equally toxic and unhelpful.
True equality is when we can have black jared letos, asian jimmy fallons, and lgbtq bill mahr
I can't tell you what these people REALLY think deep down. But there are 100% people out there that outwardly say their weight is 100% normal and healthy. That there is nothing wrong with being overweight. The "I love food, exercise sucks, so I love my body and lifestyle the way it is"
Be nice to people. But I honestly don't have an issue with there being a stigma for being overweight. Coming from personal experience, it was what made me (and is currently making me) try to get more fit. I play some sports from time to time. I go skiing often. I love to hike. My extra weight is not impeding me from doing what I love. But I feel self conscious about the extra weight I do have. That is what is motivating me. Not slightly better health benefits.
If society was 100% in on what my body looked like I wouldn't bother until some health scare forced my hand. Food is awesome. Beer is awesome. I'm now trying to get even better because I'm (at 27) feeling some tightness in my chest I'm going to get checked out tomorrow. If it turns out to be some heart issue for eating unhealthy I'm gonna be really mad at myself for not being more motivated to get better.
Don't worry. You aren't gonna have a sudden heart problem at 27 from being a bit overweight. It's probably anxiety related.
Fair enough, I read your comment in a way that didn't fully encompass what you meant. And I agree with you about the way women and owners of uterus, are treated by the medical staff, and it utterly and properly sucks, and can lead to life-threatening situations all around. It is indeed a matter of how much worse it gets, how much often it happens, as soon as you also happen to be fat/obese. I feel for your wife as PCOS is so commonly misdiagnosed, a lot of my friends and family struggled with the bare minimum of having it recognized as the reason of their debilitating pain and monthly ailment. It's infuriating knowing that if it was something cis men would deal with, proper medical research about it would have happened a long time ago.
And I know it sucks, and it's hard, and you have to deal with a lot of shitiness, but it is also so important to take care of one's health. I tend to rely on a network of friend, as well as political feminist circles, in order to find proper medical professionals that would be inclusive enough for me to feel safe consulting them. I know that in my country, there are websites and app to signal-boost feminist, fat-friendly, LGBT-friendly, overall inclusive and kind medical professionals, and that's been very helpful, it's good that such things exist, so that we as people get less afraid about this whole ordeal, and get the medical care we deserve.
And your thin wife would be right, because medically-trained professionals are also highly sexist and misogynists in the way they treat women in general. But that's still highly missing and dismissing my point saying how much much worse it gets when those women are also fat/obese, on top of just being women. Just like it also gets way worse for black women medically, than it does for white women.
Last edited:
I agree with this. Would never target an individual (behind their back or say it to their face). But if someone said to me "Hey, I'm thinking of being overewight or normal weight?" I would 100% say its better to be normal weight with a healthy active lifestyle where you eat at least 2/3rd of your meals healthy.
And I say that as someone who was a little overweight and not in a healthy active lifestyle. Got super healthy, then deviated and am now back on track.
If your actual concern is getting people better, getting them healthy and fit, you would have an issue.
But you don't, because, as I said before, you don't actually care.
Growing up as the fat kid, I now feel grateful that I was bullied to the point where I decided to make enough life changes that ultimately bettered my health into becoming the health conscious man I am today. I often equate poor diet and a lack of exercise to being just as dangerous as smoking cigarettes, which I also struggled with for some time.
I would never mock someone for their weight, but I'd be lying if I didnt have those thoughts where I wish I could educate them. It's not a healthy life choice.
I dont understand Lizzo's appeal but I'm very aware that I'm nowhere near her target demographic as a metalhead.
I would never mock someone for their weight, but I'd be lying if I didnt have those thoughts where I wish I could educate them. It's not a healthy life choice.
I dont understand Lizzo's appeal but I'm very aware that I'm nowhere near her target demographic as a metalhead.
Some folks, like Gillian, need to understand that it's possible to be both fat and attractive without being a fetish object.
Also, I seem to recall a stretch of time where Gillian Michaels photos were everywhere, with like all of them showing the v-line around her midriff. Like, I get that she's proud to have an arrow pointing to her vagina, but come on.
Also, I seem to recall a stretch of time where Gillian Michaels photos were everywhere, with like all of them showing the v-line around her midriff. Like, I get that she's proud to have an arrow pointing to her vagina, but come on.
You really shouldn't be grateful for that, bullying like that typically doesn't actually help people lose weight, it just gives them more issues/trauma
People say McDonalds is trash all the time. Possibly not as often as you like because these same people are not generally in the vicinity of others saying we should celebrate a McDonalds diet -- because that's not something that actually happens, here or anywhere.
Why do you insist on repeating this strawman when nobody in this thread or in the clip that is the subject of this thread said anything of the sort?
I realize people already got banned for this but wtf at all the "Lizzo is a minstrel act" shit in this thread. What the hell is wrong with people?
Uh...how is that a strawmen when Jillian Michael's passive aggressively suggested Lizzo wont be feeling body positive "when she gets diabetes"? Please explain how that's not just an extreme level of body shaming
"But what about fat people's health?!" is just "But what about black-on-black crime?!" in a different wrapper.
Yes, this is a normal conversation people have. "Hey friend, should I be at a societally acceptable weight, or should I be at a weight that society will judge and shame? I just can't figure it out!"
Last edited:
It's funny to me that we had decades of research that people who drink a glass of wine at dinner are healthier than those that don't when the analysis was done outside a controlled trial. When actually looking at populations on really large scales -- like this one that says 195 locations -- suddenly that evidence looks like it was all built on weak correlations due to sampling biases (i.e., people with money and already pretty good health).
There's a lot of health best-practices built on questionable reasoning like this, and given, for example, that Lizzo lives and does most of her performances in a country known for extremely high health care expenditures that don't actually lead to better outcomes for its citizens, the concern trolling coming from some people in this thread is awfully transparent, that very little to none of this is actually about health. You'll have to do a lot of work to convince me this is actually a bigger issue than the exorbitant out-of-pocket costs for insulin.
Once again, the problem is the American diet and until we can fix the toxic shit coming out of food companies people society is not going to get better. Yes we should always try and promote peoppe being healthier but the root cause of the obesity issue is not coddling obese people. This the same argument people make that actually black people are inclinded to criminality.
User Banned (1 Week): Rationalizing fatshaming, Inflammatory false equivalence, Community generalizations
In every other thread you see scientific papers and links posted to make a point, but here we ignore scientific facts about overweight and related mortality rates and call, maybe, valid criticism "fat shaming"? Well...
I mean in a way you are right. If you point to some random obese person with health problems that doesn't want to change and ask "do you care that person is unhealthy and fat"
I'd say no, he can eat himself to oblivion as far as I'm concerned. I am concerned with how society views that behavior though. That's the distinction I'm having trouble getting across to you.
While there may be people (like @deftones are cool) that being bullied into better shape works. I can understand for many others it doesn't work or its counterintuitive. Meaning you get stuck in a cycle of "fat shaming made me depressed so I ate in bed watching tv all day to cope, which made me fat which then so on and so on"
In that first article it makes the distinction that fat shaming is
"Examples of discrimination include being treated disrespectfully, receiving poor service in shops, and being harassed.* "
That shit is not acceptable. What I DO think is acceptable is us as a society promoting healthy bodies and lifestyles as what to aim for. What I want to avoid is society saying "It's ok to be overweight and over eat, food is great!"
I actually tried to find a study or something of what is the best motivator for weight loss or staying in shape. Unfortunately couldn't find anything (everything was just like "find inspirational quotes, set realistic goals,") so I'd be curious if any such surveys/studies have been done.
So I will go on anecdotal evidence from myself and friends. I think some people do it for health benefits but if I'm being honest I don't think that is the number one reason. The number one reason is stigma of being fat, and the allure of confidence for being fit and what society perceives as "good looking"
America is not exactly getting skinnier. We are also exporting our overconsumption culture to more developing countries causing obesity issues within them. We need to all eat healthier. Unfortunately outside of an actual health scare, saying "reduced chance of diabetes" isn't a great motivator. Feeling better about yourself is. But if society decides that fat bodies are also just as universally attractive, we would lack the motivation to be healthier.
I'm ok with Lizzo and others being confident in their bodies. That's great. But I don't want to normalize bodies like that as being something to look up to.
In a perfect world people would just not get overweight in the first place. It's always depressing when I see like a sub 12 year old already fat. That is 100% a parenting fail.
Man I hope so. I've never had issues with anxiety before so that would be new to me.
You're also ignoring, perhaps, that fat people know the risks, and that education and "criticism" about obesity in the past few decades hasn't been working, as evidenced by fontguy's post. Given that, the "scientific" thing to do test an alternative hypothesis and create an environment of social support that has worked for other addiction-based issues.
The entire health angle is a gaslight. Health has literally nothing to do with physical attraction or having respect for those who find happiness and comfort with their own bodies. People who talk like that just want an excuse to shame people and it's as blatant as it is pathetic.
Well what is the goal exactly? All of us coming together and saying, "Lizzo is fat and unhealthy as are all fat people! Here are the documents to prove it!" Ok? then what? we solve obesity? Lizzo is a person and what she promotes is positivity. She's not an advertisement for McDonald's (a thing that actually exists) why don't you go and make a thread about that?
Well sure, but the same type of defense could then be used by for example comedians making jokes at the expense of a minority or a group that is considered to targeted. The comedian could say "well it was only a joke, do you really think people are going to take it seriously and believe the outrageous stuff I say?" Im not saying that reasoning is without merit, but its absolutely hated here on Era. The point is, one could certainly argue that the normalization of obesity by "celebrating" those types of bodies can certainly muddy the waters.
Hell, since it's a reasonably safe conclusion one of the causes of fat gain is reactions to stress maybe it's not a great idea to increase the stress fat people have to deal with by treating them as socially or, hell, existentially criminal. Or, y'know, the utterly predictable paternalistic concern trolling (my suspicion is that there's a strong link between being fat and having CPTSD, but like hell being fat causes CPTSD)
One can't make that argument because it's observably false. Society isn't even remotely trying to make obesity normal, and yet it keeps on increasing. It's almost like there's something more at play here, from widespread food deserts, subsidies and advertising and economic realities that make shittier, more unhealthy food be purchased more than healthy options, etc. And that's not even addressing the increasingly obvious fact that obesity is a *SYMPTOM* of other things, not the cause (though obviously it has effects). We continue to fail so hard because we're not addressing the fact that so many people being overweight is clearly about more than any one person, and sure as shit isn't about "society normalizing obesity". We treat obese people like shit, and sure as hell aren't normalizing it.
Further, shame does not work. It doesn't create good outcomes and sure as shit doesn't help people get healthier.
I'm not going to go as far as a minstrel act but I do have issues with how she's all of a sudden promoted as the face of black music at every awards show not done by BET. But that's another discussion for the off topic black era thread
Why are we listening to this person? Lizzo makes people feel good and I'll add she has been donating and visiting food bank centres in Australia during her tour due to the bushfire crisis. She is a gift.
Because it's entirely a choice and this is a thing actual people would say.
Iesus Xristos, what even do you think happens to make people gain weight? Do you think we say "I think I'll become overweight and unhealthy because I see famous people who are"?
As someone who grew up as the fat kid, this is an awful sentiment and you should never feel grateful to be bullied. What the fuck?
Pointing out negative effects of obesity in a general sense is not shaming. Certainly, the primary cause for obesity is obviously nutrition & lifestyle, but thats a trivial thing to point out. Attitudes towards obesity and its increasing prevalence could certainly lead to a normalization of unhealthy livestyles however, especially in areas where the rates of obesity are high. That is then is added on top of poor nutrition & overeating, which are the primary causes. So its clearly not observably false, its simply not the main villain so to speak.
I dont know who this lady is but she makes a fair point. As someone who struggled with my weight in the past...I hate seeing obesity celebrated.
I don't see anything wrong with being somewhat "unhealthy", most people are, and it's your body. There are plenty of thin unhealthy people out there, and fit looking unhealthy people, but lets not act purposely ignorant for the sake of body positivity.
But she's clearly overweight, which isn't healthy. Same goes for the opposite spectrum of something very thin. You don't need to be a doctor to see that.
- Status