Your concern for the poor, poor fat-shaming rich lady is duly noted.
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"Why Are We Celebrating Lizzo's Body?"-Jillian Micheals
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And I'm sure that's what this is about. You two can go get a room now because I'm done with both of you and your childish tantrums.
As to the question of Jillian Michaels herself: aside from her ties to kind of the ultimate form of it in The Biggest Loser, daytime talk shows are heavily funded by fad diet and extreme intervention groups. It's not surprising that they're trying to frame the discussion in terms of "yuck fat bad" because that's how these shows make their money. I feel like a decade or so ago those ads for weight-loss pills were inescapable, and you'll have a hard time convincing me they're healthier than just, like, being fat.
People try to treat obesity like an individual failing but overlook the fact that the causes of it are manifold and not all of them can be easily controlled (i.e., people don't exercise enough? what if one of the reasons is chronic joint pain) and as a result we can't comment on an individual's health just from their appearance because of all the things we don't know because it's private information and none of our business. So then the public health crisis argument comes out because actually it is our business because we have to deal with it, and then those same arguments just ignore the fact that, as I mentioned before, the American health care system in particular and the American food market are too expensive for a large portion of its citizens to participate in and are the only feasible ways to actually address this issue, because you can't solve structural issues at individual levels. And then they complain this discussion is off-topic, because they don't want to admit the real issue is fat women in public make them uncomfortable
People try to treat obesity like an individual failing but overlook the fact that the causes of it are manifold and not all of them can be easily controlled (i.e., people don't exercise enough? what if one of the reasons is chronic joint pain) and as a result we can't comment on an individual's health just from their appearance because of all the things we don't know because it's private information and none of our business. So then the public health crisis argument comes out because actually it is our business because we have to deal with it, and then those same arguments just ignore the fact that, as I mentioned before, the American health care system in particular and the American food market are too expensive for a large portion of its citizens to participate in and are the only feasible ways to actually address this issue, because you can't solve structural issues at individual levels. And then they complain this discussion is off-topic, because they don't want to admit the real issue is fat women in public make them uncomfortable
Celebrity who has been away for years says something to make a headline. Let's just ignore her.
Well, its the scaled back version of "Hey, do you think I should lose weight?" or "Do you think I am overweight?"
Social gatherings are not the reason someone is obese. I know because I go to social gatherings and usually eat like a pig. Why? Because I don't have junk foods around my house. I'm not even some extremely healthy eater, but I just do not keep cookies, candy, chips, brownies, sugary drinks, etc, around my house. And again, because I know about how many calories I'm eating each day I keep my number in check.
But when I go to a social gathering I often let loose on the cookies and bullshit, because I'm not doing that the vast majority of the time. That's the thing. Because I track what I eat the vast majority of the time, when I go to a special event or dinner somewhere I let loose for that specific occasion and don't even worry about tracking a thing. Those occasions alone will not make someone gain weight.
Now, if you want to go out and live it up several days a week, well yeah, good luck with that.
When I lost weight the healthcare system had nothing to do with it. In fact, when I decided to lose weight and start tracking my calories I had not been to a doctor in 20 years, and I had no professional help throughout the process.
A person could lose tons of weight without doing any sort of exercise. If you know how many calories you're eating each day and you keep yourself at a deficit you will lose weight. Exercise is simply an additive element, and of course it's good for your overall health, but in terms of weight loss, it's merely an accessory.
I don't see anyone celebrating her body? What does that even mean? Clearly she is overweight, as to what causes it I have no clue. She is also extremely talented and animated when she performs. If you can point to someone attempting to make Lizzo's body out as the ideal form for human I would be shocked, but I doubt that is what's happening.
Yes this is true. Genetics are non-modifiable risk factors. Being obese carriers a much greater risk of developing diabetes or heart disease. Obesity is very much a lifestyle related disease that can be modified. This isn't to say there aren't genetic, socioeconomic, and environmental factors that lead to obesity and that someone just needs to "try harder" but there are medications and surgery that are also effective for weight loss that can lower someone's relative risk of mortality secondary to diabetes or heart disease. Just because one heathy, fit person dies young from a heart attack doesn't mean that people who hit the ACSM guidelines for physical activity for adults, maintains a BMI and waist circumference under the cutoff aren't at a much lower absolute risk than those that don't do those things.
Absolutely this. While the net equation of calories in<calories out to lose weight is never "wrong", it's almost useless on a population level because it's so much more complicated than that for all the reasons you stated.
Shockingly, the biggest loser is still on (I think it moved channels though it's not on NBC).
You mean the host? Michael's simply responded to her question. And I'm still not seeing fat shaming from her response, regardless of my opinion of Michaels.
I know reading comprehension is hard for some people, but I literally said that Jillian Michaels a bad person. I don't care about her feelings.
But since she is not the only person in the world with that body type, making fun of her body does not in fact attack her for her bad opinions or personality. It makes fun of traits other people share with her. It makes you a hypocrite, which you're obviously fine with.
Just as a heads up, though: if you don't want people to engage with the words you say and their meaning, you don't have to post on a message board. There are a lot of platforms that aren't actually intended for discussion that you might enjoy more.
new information received and accepted.
Might want to re-think I dont understand the challenges faced by the obese
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/progresspics/comments/857th0/m3158_225_169_56_204_months_high_school_me_vs/
between that I got 'fat strong' at some point and obviously was still able to lose weight. Again, it's not overcomplicated. You're either eating too much and gaining, or not enough and losing.
Might want to re-think I dont understand the challenges faced by the obese
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/progresspics/comments/857th0/m3158_225_169_56_204_months_high_school_me_vs/
between that I got 'fat strong' at some point and obviously was still able to lose weight. Again, it's not overcomplicated. You're either eating too much and gaining, or not enough and losing.
And? You still only have an understanding of the challenges faced regarding your body and your state of mind. Being formerly fat doesn't make you an expert, and it doesn't mean that the methods you used will work for everyone else who is obese.
it will work for the vast majority of people.
You're the person who's unhelpful. When simple advice like eat less move more gets picked apart by folks like you, it discourages people from trying.
You're a privileged person who can't see past his own experiences.
Nah he's right though.
When people peddle misinformation like "BMI is inaccurate" "genetics matter" you are basically peddling 1% cases as if they are the norm. For the vast majority of the population BMI works. Genetics don't make you obese. Calories in and out works.
Except recent studies have shown that genetics can affect up to 40-70% of obesity.
It's not exactly destiny, but these things affect everything from fat retention to the attitude that people towards food and other predispositions that have a huge effect on weight and weight loss.
And for the record I never said anything about the BMI so don't attribute things like that to me.
My friend might have an easier time losing weight than I do.
But I can still do it.
What I'm saying is that the people with truly bad genetic issues, thyroid stuff etc where it is near impossible to manage weight on are such a crazy outlier.
Almost everyone can do it. Some easier than others. Doesn't mean you should be using it as an excuse to not try.
not even gonna read the replies to this thread because i know most of them will piss me off
i'm overweight. not lizzo overweight, but i'm overweight. not skinny. big thighs and a tummy roll.
i eat healthy. i eat fucking carrot sticks, low fat yoghurt, lots of vegetables, lean meat. i've cut out sugar and most carbs. i rarely drink alcohol. no fruit juice! i'm still overweight.
i'm going through testing for cushing's disease, thyroid problems, polycystic ovarian syndrome. the first thing "concerned" people say when they judge my body is that i'm unhealthy and i need to have more self control.
nobody cares about my eating disorders. nobody cares about the fact that whatever autoimmune disorder i have has made me infertile. no one cares about the intense anxiety and depression i get when i look in the mirror. nobody cares that i spend most of my day irritable and hungry.
everyone just gives that tittering response of "well, it's YOUR body but you know being fat is unhealthy right?". fuck OFF if you think being fat is just laziness. i work harder than most people just to maintain my current weight. if you really care, fund my next endocrinologist session. fund my psych appointments. fund the medications i have to take so i don't get deathly sick.
it's frustrating and most people are never going to understand. i feel so sorry for lizzo. she's an AMAZING performer. she has so many popular hits. and yet whenever she's brought up the conversation INEVITABLY turns to "yeah but we shouldn't glorify her... she's fat."
if all that matters is being fat, and being fat is out of my control, what should i do? just kill myself to stop making skinny people uncomfortable?
i'm overweight. not lizzo overweight, but i'm overweight. not skinny. big thighs and a tummy roll.
i eat healthy. i eat fucking carrot sticks, low fat yoghurt, lots of vegetables, lean meat. i've cut out sugar and most carbs. i rarely drink alcohol. no fruit juice! i'm still overweight.
i'm going through testing for cushing's disease, thyroid problems, polycystic ovarian syndrome. the first thing "concerned" people say when they judge my body is that i'm unhealthy and i need to have more self control.
nobody cares about my eating disorders. nobody cares about the fact that whatever autoimmune disorder i have has made me infertile. no one cares about the intense anxiety and depression i get when i look in the mirror. nobody cares that i spend most of my day irritable and hungry.
everyone just gives that tittering response of "well, it's YOUR body but you know being fat is unhealthy right?". fuck OFF if you think being fat is just laziness. i work harder than most people just to maintain my current weight. if you really care, fund my next endocrinologist session. fund my psych appointments. fund the medications i have to take so i don't get deathly sick.
it's frustrating and most people are never going to understand. i feel so sorry for lizzo. she's an AMAZING performer. she has so many popular hits. and yet whenever she's brought up the conversation INEVITABLY turns to "yeah but we shouldn't glorify her... she's fat."
if all that matters is being fat, and being fat is out of my control, what should i do? just kill myself to stop making skinny people uncomfortable?
I think I'm probably too old for tik tok unfortunately. Hell, I missed out on Snapchat.
User Banned (1 Week): Insensitive commentary.
I was there also. I wouldn't argue with this guy though. His entire post is excuses that affect few that many love to use because they simply lack self control, want instant results, and will not put the effort in. It takes serious dedication and time.Might want to re-think I dont understand the challenges faced by the obese
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/progresspics/comments/857th0/m3158_225_169_56_204_months_high_school_me_vs/
between that I got 'fat strong' at some point and obviously was still able to lose weight. Again, it's not overcomplicated. You're either eating too much and gaining, or not enough and losing.
There's no reason to shit on fat people. I always go out of my way to introduce myself at my gym, tell my story, and cheer them on. They need it. But people like this guy are nothing but excuses. At least he didn't say "thyroid" or "lack of time" Those are my least favorite.
As someone who is also very weak willed and had to simply remove all the stuff from my house, buying food several times a week instead of weekly, I don't accept excuses from most people. Be happy with yourself, or do something about it. Don't waterboard us with bullshit.
do us fat people a favour and don't go out of your way to "cheer us on" because "we need it" holy jesus christ
I've been on food stamps, had shelter meals, and eaten garbage. You can always eat less if you are obese for a long period of time.
Inside we all want to be accepted. People show up to a gym trying to make positive change, but many get scared off because they feel like they don't belong. Encouraging others, pushing them, laughing with them and making it fun helps a lot of people because it's as much social as it is physical and mental. You have a problem with me making friends with people and encouraging them? Something is wrong with you then, and you should mull that over and get it sorted. We're in a thread about acceptance, and you're discouraging welcoming behavior. Ridiculous.
Not at all what it's about. Mental gymnastics though and all that. You don't want people to be cruel, but you don't want them to be kind either.
Lousy excuses are lously excuses. I work 6-7 days a week between two jobs. I find the time. It's the same for anyone who really wants it. You can make time, or you cannot. Accept that you don't want it rather than make excuses. How many hours a week do you spend posting? Watching Netflix? Going out to eat, clubs, bars, playing video games? You need 3 one hour workouts a week to make massive change.
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LOL
your language in the original post you made was infantilising and preachy. it wasn't about encouraging people, it was about patting those poor poor fat people on the back, who have no self control and need all the help they can get.
get the fuck outta here.
as a psychologist, this is bad advice at best and harmful rhetoric at worst. please, for the love of god, stay in your own lane, worry about your own personality and not the health issues of others. thanks.
Here you are talking down to people about excuses like you know anything about their lifestyles, economic status, and physical and mental capacities, and telling people they're just making up excuses. Blatant concern trolling.
You keep reading my statements as making excuses and that's not what I'm doing. I'm simply saying it's hard, really hard and for some people it can be a real battle. I'm simply trying to say posting "it's just CICO" can be extremely demoralizing to people. Especially so when someone busts their ass and still struggles to feel good because of how they feel they look
The whole point of body positivity is to push people to find happiness in their own skin and to understand that it's ok to not look like some ripped weight lifter who has 10% body fat.
You're inferring things that aren't there. I can't help you with that. I've admitted I myself am weak willed and what I had to do to work around it. I can't fix it, but I can make it more difficult to give in to.
Which one would you like to talk about? I'm poor working multiple jobs. I suffer from severe depression (something exercise has helped with but not solved), can't afford therapy most of the time, don't receive assistance, have taken medications which directly impact my metabolism, and have extreme anxiety and confidence issues. I am someone that has a very hard time making friends as I was bullied my whole life as I started going bald when I was twelve, stress ate, and became obese which was, at this point, also most of my life.
I've had a very rough go. I believe that most people can do it if someone as pathetic as I was and still am in many ways could. I believe most people are better than me. Truly.
You have a problem with me thinking more of others than they think of themselves. As proven time and again people see themselves differently than others do. If only we could see how others see us.
I've fought tooth and nail to lose 200 pounds in the last five years, and am still losing weight, and continuing to do everything I can to overcome my limitations. Don't tell me I'm making any god damned excuses.
If you went through all that experience, I would think you would have more empathy for how truly difficult it is to do, and you wouldn't say people are just making excuses. Same shit people tell drug addicts. I've lost 100 pounds in a year. I wouldn't even say it was particularly hard for me, just took a while and took some good eating and exercising habits. But my experience isn't everyone's. I would never, ever say people who are struggling with their weight are "making excuses." Acting sanctimonious because "I did it too, why can't others" is unhelpful at best.
I wouldn't tell you you're making excuses. You're a perfect example of what is possible and how people can change if they really want to.
I don't criticize. What I do say is I don't want to hear excuses. Specifically from those who do nothing. If you're a person that watches TV 5 hours a day but say you don't have time, for example.
Struggling and hardship is expected. Change doesn't come easy or quick.
You yourself said my entire post was excuses.
And don't use me to prop up your argument. Everything I've been through was far more involved than "eat fewer calories". It's taken counseling, a massive overhaul of my living situation, and much, much more.
I don't disagree, but many health organisations and specialists are highly concerned about the obesity crisis and its future (and present) implications. Iirc there was some research recently that showed normalising obese imagery was already accelerating the slip slide into further crisis. I e. It will harm the individual, but also put vast and increasing pressure on health services and resources (it already costs more to health services and governments than cancer, iirc).
(I'm not saying this is in any way relevant to Lizzo, body positivity, etc. Diet and weight is a super complex thing and people should never feel ashamed. I'm just pointing out there is sincere and well-researched health concern around it, not just shaming and normalisation BS like what this woman said.)
And here's why I think you're misunderstanding me. It's often hard to read people and their intentions in text form. So, let me try to make this clear. I don't insult fat people, I don't criticize them. If they are happy with who they are, then they don't need to change.
My problem is specifically those that want to change but do nothing but make excuses. The kind of person who sees you've turned your franchise around, and then needs to tell you why they can't unprompted. This is something I've experienced many times. I have nothing against them being heavy, and I have nothing against them doing nothing to change it. It's the crying about their hardship, asking for advice regularly, then never taking a first step.
That post is excuses. You are doing it in spite of those things, are you not? So despite what you may identify as your own weaknesses, you're doing it. You know it's possible. You know who you are inside and that you may not be the toughest person out there mentally. Maybe you identify as weak, like I do. But you still did it. We are, in many ways, our own worst enemies. Certainly you don't think you're special. If you can make such changes, then you surely believe that others can as well.
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the fact that obesity is an epidemic and is getting worse is 100% correct. the thing is, when it comes to fat people, suddenly all knowledge of social determinants of health gets thrown out the window and people default to "people just need to stop being lazy" (i'm not saying you said this, but it's rife in this thread)
for example, take drug use. if "you need to stop doing drugs" was all it took to cure addiction, we'd have no addicts. if "you need to pull your socks up and stop using drugs, this is all your fault" worked, we'd have no addicts
but we know that this shit is complicated! factors like mental health, poverty status, race, gender, all sorts of shit plays into addiction. it's not an easy problem and it's not an easy fix.
but weight loss? "it's calorie in calories out, stop being lazy. i did it, you can do it. if you're not losing weight you're doing something wrong. fat people need to stop being glorified (read: included) in society. it's easy. no excuses."
what about better work/life balance so people don't feel exhausted by the end of the day, so they have more time to exercise and cook nutritious food? what about accessible health care so that people can visit dieticians and doctors to work out sustainable weight loss options? what about subsidised gym costs? what about the ever increasing cost of living which means fast food and take out is often the most affordable option for poorer families? no? just "stop being lazy"? yeah okay.
I understand fat-shaming doesn't work, and I've had(have?) eating disorders.
This is about HAES pseudoscience. It is based off of a faulty study that only factors in people who have health complications while obese. Being obese of a long period of time damages your body. Many people get fit before they die because their obesity put them in crisis. those people are not an obesity statistic in the HAES studies.
We have people doubting calories here too.
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100% agree
The most frustrating thing is how modern research shows that there are 4-5 genetic determinants for how likely you are to be obese. If you have 3-5 of these genes activated, you are basically guaranteed to be overweight.
The genes govern everything from how your fat cells store carbohydrates, to your actual perceived appetite, to your brain's impulse control... If you've drawn the unfortunate hand, it will literally be harder for you to not eat, to stay slim, to have healthy habits...
So yup, it's nowhere near as easy as "calories in; calories out". What's more important is simply to eat well and exercise. Lizzo clearly does both.
A lot of obese people need therapy first, nutrition second, and exercise as the last step.
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