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Why can't Link be enby/genderqueer if his androgyny is why we have no gender option?

SugarNoodles

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
Japan culturally can't even get a grip on letting mothers have careers. Their powerhouse game developer is not about to embrace the spectrum of gender identity.
 
How About No

How About No

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,785
The Great Dairy State
I mean I'm ok that Link is a guy though an androgynous one, but if they went further and made their identity gender-neutral/ambiguous that would be cool too

https:///wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Retro-Female-Link-1.jpg
https:///wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Retro-Female-Link-2.jpg
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(I also thought Link was a girl when I was a toddler lol)
 
Boiled Goose

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
P-Tux7 said:
Here's Aonuma's quote regarding this

So yeah, why is Link still locked onto one side of the binary if he's meant to be BETWEEN male and female? I'd appreciate some sort of "coming out as nonbinary" story beat in BOTW2, come to think of it.
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From androgynous design to coming out as non binary is quite a step. You expect a Japanese publisher, Nintendo specifically, to put such a beat in their flagship, story light adventure game?

It would be fascinating because it would be so surprising and unique, but I just don't think it's remotely realistic
 
daybreak

daybreak

Member
Feb 28, 2018
2,415
I didn't take that quote or article as Link being "between male or female" - it's pretty clearly stated that Link is male (at least the one in BotW for this specific article). I took it to mean they're making his appearance ambiguous, not his gender.
 

SwimmingCampaign

Banned
Jun 17, 2019
397
P-Tux7 said:
Here's Aonuma's quote regarding this

So yeah, why is Link still locked onto one side of the binary if he's meant to be BETWEEN male and female? I'd appreciate some sort of "coming out as nonbinary" story beat in BOTW2, come to think of it.
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That seems like something that would be wildly out of place in a Zelda game. Zelda characters don't really have that level of characterization or development at all. No Nintendo characters do really, beyond maybe like the Fire Emblem series.
 

Raccoon

Member
May 31, 2019
15,896
Bobo Dakes said:
Link's first complete sentence.
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hahaha I didn't even think of this

"hyah hyah hyaaah!"

(cutscene)

"Zelda, I have something I wanted to tell you. After a lot of introspection, I'm ready to come out as non-binary. I value your support in this pivotal time in my life."

"Of course Link, I'll always be here for you. Thank you for trusting me enough to tell me."

(end cutscene)

"HYAH! HWOOOP! HYAH!"

Would it be nice? Yeah, it would be a touching moment. Would it have anywhere near the sort of tonal coherence to make the moment significant and important? No way
 
Dyle

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,890
I don't think there's anything that explicitly says Link identifies as male in game. No doubt other people in Hyrule consider him to be male but we get zero insight on Link's personal feelings on the matter and the player can easily place their feelings into him. Considering how clumsily NCL would handle this kind of topic a blank canvas is probably for the best
 
Lant_War

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,539
Executive Taxi said:
Oh look, it's another American thinking they've got everything figured out and smugly dictating what other countries are like
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I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase FFXIII for either system, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.

Square, publicly apologize and cancel FFXIII for 360 or you can kiss your business goodb
 
Fruit

Fruit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
75
Well, Link doesn't seem to mind be called a girl during the times he dressed as one. When you first get the Gerudo outfit, he blushes upon being complimented on looking like a pretty girl. During the boots sidequest, he clearly did not mind being flirted with as a girl; even if the quest is all about getting the boots that doesn't stop someone from feeling uncomfortable with being known or called as such.
I recall people calling him a girl across Hyrule if you wear the Gerudo outfit, and he doesn't mind or do anything different. Seems to be comfortable with whatever, either he's really confident and comfortable with him masculinity or he flows with what people refer to him as; Link is Link.

f92whwzwgo921.png
 

SwimmingCampaign

Banned
Jun 17, 2019
397
Lant_War said:
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase FFXIII for either system, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.

Square, publicly apologize and cancel FFXIII for 360 or you can kiss your business goodb
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Square? Am I having a stroke, what did I miss ITT
 
How About No

How About No

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,785
The Great Dairy State
Fruit said:
Well, Link doesn't seem to mind be called a girl during the times he dressed as one. When you first get the Gerudo outfit, he blushes upon being complimented on looking like a pretty girl. During the boots sidequest, he clearly did not mind being flirted with as a girl; even if the quest is all about getting the boots that doesn't stop someone from feeling uncomfortable with being known or called as such.
I recall people calling him a girl across Hyrule if you wear the Gerudo outfit, and he doesn't mind or do anything different. Seems to be comfortable with whatever, either he's really confident and comfortable with him masculinity or he flows with what people refer to him as; Link is Link.

f92whwzwgo921.png
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Link Between Genders
 
IsaOfTheWorlds

IsaOfTheWorlds

Member
Mar 19, 2019
482
The creator very clearly just didn't want Link to be overtly masculine so that females could relate to him, too. It has nothing to do with gender identity or androgyny.
 

Executive Taxi

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,641
IsaOfTheWorlds said:
The creator very clearly just didn't want Link to be overtly masculine so that females could relate to him, too. It has nothing to do with gender identity or androgyny.
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The article the OP linked literally answered their question.

"During the development of Twilight Princess, I went a different route and created a version of Link that was more masculine. But after Twilight Princess I went back to the drawing board and decided Link should be a more gender-neutral character. Hence I created the version of Link that you see in Breath of the Wild. As far as gender goes, Link is definitely a male, but I wanted to create a character where anybody would be able to relate to the character."

"So that's why I think the rumor went around that Link could be a female. Because maybe the users were able to relate in that way."
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skeezx

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,120
since Link is a blank slate (though extent varies per game) you can more or less fill that in for yourself
 
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Aadiboy

Aadiboy

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,637
Link is a blank self-insert anyway, why not just make your own headcanon for him to be what you want him to be?
 
IsaOfTheWorlds

IsaOfTheWorlds

Member
Mar 19, 2019
482
808s & Villainy said:
I don't think OP really cares. They just want a genderqueer Link
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Clearly.

I'm all for representing the LGBT in video games, but needing literally every protagonist ever to be LGBT+, to the point of even demanding that established characters' sexual or gender orientation be changed, is just a little out there. Head-canon all you want, but in the end a game is what the creator wants it to be and if the creator *doesn't* want their protagonist to be LGBT+ they aren't oppressing or discriminating against the community.

Bottom-line, OP? Link isn't genderqueer because Aonuma doesn't want him to be.
 
Regulus Tera

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
I really do think the lack of gender options is just something that the Zelda team hadn't ever thought of, and the justifications after the fact were just done as damage control, as BotW was already too far in development. It's why I expect the next big Zelda iteration after BotW2 to allow for this, or for BotW2 to actually make Zelda playable.

Yes, I'm aware BS Zelda exists.
 
Crossing Eden

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,295
IsaOfTheWorlds said:
I'm all for representing the LGBT in video games, but needing literally every protagonist ever to be LGBT+
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Ahhh my favorite word...

Literally who is doing this as no one has argued that. Sounds to me like someone has an issue with LBGT players asking for more representation and takes that as:

"They want every character to be gay."

Great logic there champ. đź‘Ť
 
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