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Mar 19, 2019
482
Ahhh my favorite word...

Literally who is doing this as no one has argued this? Sounds to me like someone has an issue with LBGT players asking for more representation and takes that as:

"They want every character to be gay."

Great logic there champ. 👍


If you're going so far as to make an entire thread demanding that established characters with established identities be changed to suit your own identity and to give yourself more representation at the expense of what the creator clearly wants their character to be, you're asking for too much.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,322
If you're going so far as to make an entire thread demanding that established characters with established identities be changed to suit your own identity and to give yourself more representation at the expense of what the creator clearly wants their character to be, you're asking for too much.
Link was purposefully made androgynous in BOTW because the creators wanted men and women to relate to him. They specifically used the words "gender-neutral" to describe his appearance. Also I love how the following sentence is your idea of a demand.

I'd appreciate some sort of "coming out as nonbinary" story beat in BOTW2, come to think of it.

The gall of OP to be this aggressive and demanding. 😱
 
Mar 19, 2019
482
Link was purposefully made androgynous in BOTW because the creators wanted men and women to relate to him.

The article the OP themselves posted, with a quote from the designer himself, said that "Link is definitely male". The creator didn't say anything about androgyny in the sense of gender identity, just not making Link too overtly masculine so that he isn't excluding female audience members. If the creator says Link is "definitely a male", then Link is a male and they want them to be.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,322
The article the OP themselves posted, with a quote from the designer himself, said that "Link is definitely male". The creator didn't say anything about androgyny in the sense of gender identity, just not making Link too overtly masculine so that he isn't excluding female audience members. If the creator says Link is "definitely a male", then Link is a male and they want them to be.
Read my edit
 

Zacmortar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,383
If you're going so far as to make an entire thread demanding that established characters with established identities be changed to suit your own identity and to give yourself more representation at the expense of what the creator clearly wants their character to be, you're asking for too much.
Link isnt an established character, hes a moldable toy remade in nearly every game to suit each game's needs. Theres no argument to be made that he cant be something that isnt inherently biased because you dont want him to be that
 
Mar 19, 2019
482
Link isnt an established character, hes a moldable toy remade in nearly every game to suit each game's needs. Theres no argument to be made that he cant be something that isnt inherently biased because you dont want him to be that
You mean except for the fact the series producer says that he is "definitely a male"?
 

n00bs7ay3r

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Aug 21, 2018
1,159
Pretty sure Link is a boy and always has been?
 

Zornack

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,134
Not really sure the point of this thread when the article linked in the OP answers the question.

BotW 2 link won't be genderqueer or come out as non-binary because, as Anoumra says, "Link is definitely a male."
 

Zacmortar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,383
Not providing a gender option for a game like Zelda, doesn't make something fucked up for LGBT. The entireness of that post has that weird superiority complex thing running.
Read the comments i was quoting again, and yes Nonbinary is very much an LGBT.

You mean except for the fact the series producer says that he is "definitely a male"?
Its almost like hes not the sole creator nor is he the final say on Zelda as it was created before him and will exist long after him. Word Of God is not a literal saying.
 

Brodo Baggins

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,941
I don't think this fits with the storytelling vibe of the games at all. Link has never had a lot of characterization outside of how others react to him, and his facial expressions. Link has always been a self-insert character to me, and that would make him less relatable for myself personally (not that that is a problem if they make him a very defined character). You can choose to fill in whatever personality you see fit, but personally I'd rather see them develop other parts of the narrative first.
 
Mar 19, 2019
482
Its almost like hes not the sole creator nor is he the final say on Zelda as it was created before him and will exist long after him. Word Of God is not a literal saying.
Cool, but he's in charge right now and every person who was in charge before him has said that Link is a male in pretty much all official material ever so clearly every single person who has had their hands on Link sees him as a male, so...
 

Vern

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,097
Zelda games don't even have much of a story and they are all the better for it. BotW wouldn't be any better or more interesting if link had more "story beats" whether they are about his identity, sexuality, or anything else for that matter. The "story" was by far the worst part of the game. I hope botw2 is just an open world full of puzzles and adventures, save the story beats for games that have an interest in telling a fleshed out story with fully developed characters.
 

Zacmortar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,383
Cool, but he's in charge right now and every person who was in charge before him has said that Link is a male in pretty much all official material ever so clearly every single person who has had their hands on Link sees him as a male, so...
Cool, i dont care and you people keep regurgitating the same bullshit everytime.

Jesus Christ
 

Madao

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,696
Panama
the amount of straight males who buy zelda games is far bigger than any other minority that buys them.

it's simple business. target the biggest demographic that buys your product with subsequent products. like, for example if more women bought the games than men, we'd have gotten female Link already or playable Zelda.

plus, Nintendo dislikes any sort of controversy. that's why they haven't included almost any kind of political stuff in their main games. japan is also slow to adapt and change so it's not something you'll see anytime soon if it happens.
 

MisterHero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,934
I would like an adventure game like Majora's Mask where there the character can be all kinds of people and mythical races. Besides Majora's Mask they had touched upon it with fairy transformation in Zelda II and a Mermaid Suit(?) in Oracle of Ages. I was kind of hoping they'd have a working Gerudo Mask way back when MM was announced, but that might be a little deep for series routinely starring a young boy.

I'm gonna make my own game with that idea instead of projecting my issues onto other creators' work!
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
Link was purposefully made androgynous in BOTW because the creators wanted men and women to relate to him. They specifically used the words "gender-neutral" to describe his appearance.
I think you're intentionally misconstruing what he said a bit. Gender-neutral wasn't used in the context of gender identity, but in the context of which gender the design appealed to.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,322
I think you're intentionally misconstruing what he said a bit. Gender-neutral wasn't used in the context of gender identity, but in the context of which gender the design appealed to.
I wasn't saying that it was related to his gender identity. I'm saying it wouldn't be out of place given the character in question is purposefully designed to be as androgynous as possible.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
How was what he said racist?
The attitude behind the posts and frequency it gets used on the gaming section in general.

Japan is behind on X, Japan doesn't understand X.

Personally speaking, if I'm gonna generalize a country negatively, I'll do my own, but that's just me.

the amount of straight males who buy zelda games is far bigger than any other minority that buys them.

it's simple business. target the biggest demographic that buys your product with subsequent products. like, for example if more women bought the games than men, we'd have gotten female Link already or playable Zelda.

plus, Nintendo dislikes any sort of controversy. that's why they haven't included almost any kind of political stuff in their main games. japan is also slow to adapt and change so it's not something you'll see anytime soon if it happens.
What kind of 2003 ass post is this?
 

Rei no Otaku

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,342
Cranston RI
Do we know that Link isn't? He never talks in the game other than a few multiple choice options. Just make him whatever you want him to be in your head.
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,572
You mean except for the fact the series producer says that he is "definitely a male"?
The thing about Link is that he's different in every game. I wouldn't want Mario to turn into a female or something like that, but the next Link can be whatever Nintendo wants Link to be. I think we'll see a female Link eventually.
 
Mar 19, 2019
482
The thing about Link is that he's different in every game. I wouldn't want Mario to turn into a female or something like that, but the next Link can be whatever Nintendo wants Link to be. I think we'll see a female Link eventually.

Fair, but I'm pretty sure the reason why every Link is so remarkably similar is because every Link is essentially an iteration of the exact same person, since they all do share the soul of "the hero". I'm not sure if they can reasonably stray too far from that considering it's been the explanation for so long.
 

Manu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,150
Buenos Aires, Argentina
They can't even make Zelda playable due to how much they adhere to conventional, outdated gender roles in the series, this would be like skipping a dozen steps ahead.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
Fair, but I'm pretty sure the reason why every Link is so remarkably similar is because every Link is essentially an iteration of the exact same person, since they all do share the soul of "the hero". I'm not sure if they can reasonably stray too far from that considering it's been the explanation for so long.
You say that, but Link being a girl two games from now wouldn't really contradict canon, require explanation or even look all that different.

It's all the same to me honestly, but saying it can't stray is a bit weak.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,144
The thing about Link is that he's different in every game. I wouldn't want Mario to turn into a female or something like that, but the next Link can be whatever Nintendo wants Link to be. I think we'll see a female Link eventually.

he's iterated on but he's not Dr. Who. besides hair and some idiosyncratic designs per artist he's pretty much been the same character

lore allows for him to wind up as a female or something vastly different (i mean, i guess, since he's reincarnated) if they want to go that route, which would be fine. but if past is prologue dunno why some expect that
 
Last edited:

MarcyPoos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
919
Why can't an androgynous man be a man?

Yes the quote is silly but calling for this kind of story beat in a Zelda game is also silly.
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,572
he's iterated on but he's not Dr. Who. besides hair and some idiosyncratic designs per artist he's pretty much been the same character

lore allows for him to wind up as a female or something vastly different (i mean, i guess, since he's reincarnated) if they want to go that route, which would be fine. but if past is prologue dunno why some expect that
I expect it because many more females play video games now, and these options are becoming more and more frequent. I do expect it to be an option when it happens, so those who want Link to stay male, such as myself, can select that option. It would be easy to do because usually Link being a male doesn't have much impact on the game (there are some exceptions of course)
 
Mar 19, 2019
482
You say that, but Link being a girl two games from now wouldn't really contradict canon, require explanation or even look all that different.

It's all the same to me honestly, but saying it can't stray is a bit weak.

Fair enough. It is.

My issue isn't even with future installments of Link being female, it's just trying to assign identities to existent iterations of him that have established character's and identity, like the OP asking why BOTW Link is still being viewed as a part of the binary despite the fact the creator stated he was, in fact, a part of the binary and in general the all-too-common trying to pull threads on many long-established and persistent, non-reincarnation characters like some people who want canonically straight characters to come out as gay despite the fact it conflicts with the character's established identity.

I'm a part of the LGBT community; I, myself, am bisexual (sorry for the people who think I'm biased against the LGBT community, I guess), but I don't personally believe in pressuring content creators to represent me if it is not in their will, and I do not believing in trying to assign identities to characters that simply do not exist in the canon. I'm bisexual, but I'd be perfectly comfortable with there literally never being a single bisexual character in gaming every if so should it be. I'm a content creator myself, and while I don't exclude minority groups, be it racial or the LGBT or religious, I also sometimes just don't write about African-American or LGBT characters, and I think I'm perfectly well within my rights to do so and I'd definitely hate to have nonstop discussion about why my main character isn't enby genderqueer just because I didn't write him as too overly masculine or her as too overly feminine.

Everybody who has ever had their hands on Link sees him as male, and everybody who has their hands on him now sees him as male. There is no Link with different gender identities, and BotW 2 Link will not be enby genderqueer, and trying to pull threads to explain why he is one of these things is honestly weird to me. And I genuinely don't think there ever HAS to be a genderqueer or gay or bisexual or female Link EVER, and I do think asking for anybody in charge of LoZ to include this is asking for too much. I genuinely do not believe in pressuring creators to touch upon subjects they do not want to if they do not want to because I would hate for people to do it to me.

It's fine to want more representation, but I will never pressure a creator to change what their vision for their character or world or story or game is unless there is some actual genuine issue with their storytelling or the gameplay is actually objectively busted. The creator's vision for Link is clearly that of a boy. Leave it be.
 

KillLaCam

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,386
Seoul
huh , isn't he androgynous and almost a blank slate so that people can fill in his characteristics themselves. Coming out as anything would be the complete opposite of that. Like even if Link was a girl they'd still need to make her androgynous and a blank slate
 

Radeo

Banned
Apr 26, 2019
1,305
Don't see why we would need this, androgynous men can still just be men, and Link's characterisation has always been limited at best.
 

aLoneWalker

Attempted to create multiple alt accounts
Banned
Jul 16, 2019
158
It's not a resetera day without this kind of topic it seems
 

25th Baam

Member
Jan 9, 2018
272
It's fine to want more representation, but I will never pressure a creator to change what their vision for their character or world or story or game is unless there is some actual genuine issue with their storytelling or the gameplay is actually objectively busted. The creator's vision for Link is clearly that of a boy. Leave it be.
Errrr I think you have to inform yourself better on the lgbt+ movement history. If it wasn't for pressure for change, we wouldn't have anything we have today, including general civil rights to women playable characters in a assassin's creed game. So stop with this outdated view, it's totally reasonable for people wanting representation, to ask for said representation.
 

Deleted member 10726

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,674
ResetERA
I'd appreciate some sort of "coming out as nonbinary" story beat in BOTW2, come to think of it.

Jesus fucking christ OP how dare you pressure Aonuma like that? /s

Seriously, disappropriate reaction to a harmless thread premise aside, I think the reason why we won't see this for a while is cause Nintendo is only making baby steps towards representation at a snail's pace. It'll be a while before we see any of the all stars characters see a change of such magnitude, though I do hope that at some point in the future we wil.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
I think they could easily just... not refer to Link's gender. Like seriously just say "you", "they", "the hero". It's not that far removed from what we already get, really.

Also it's weird to see people refer to Link as "a character" singular to argue against this. There are multiple Links from many different time periods, with different personalities, however slight. If Doctor Who can change its protagonist from male to female without blinking an eye, surely Nintendo could just have it so the hero's spirit reincarnates as another gender.
 
Jan 20, 2019
260
Link is cute, and that's what matters most to me!

Like someone else said, BOTW all but fully accepted some gender-fluidity with the Gerudo Vai outfit and the joining quests/dialogue. What's the difference between a person you know to be a woman and a person who you perceive as a woman based on appearances? As far as many characters in Hyrule know, the Gerudo clothing styles may just be getting popular amongst young women!
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,635
Link being genderqueer would require Link to have an identity, which in turn would require Link to have a personality.

That's just not going to happen. Even after all the effort they put into fleshing out Zelda as a character in BotW, Link is still an emotionless flesh doll.
 

zoboomafoo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
213
Link absolutely rocks feminine clothing in Triforce Heroes.

1475529489094935213.png
 

Hercule

Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,400
The attitude behind the posts and frequency it gets used on the gaming section in general.

Japan is behind on X, Japan doesn't understand X.

Personally speaking, if I'm gonna generalize a country negatively, I'll do my own, but that's just me.


What kind of 2003 ass post is this?
But what he said was true. My brother lives in Japan and they are far behind on things like woman rights. It is changing a little bit but you can't compare it with western countries.

It's still really difficult for women to keep working after childbirth
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,124
Some people get really bent out of shape as soon you as suggest Link could be something other than male lol.
 

Deleted member 426

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,273
I'm not saying what Link should be (I can see the plusses of Link being explicitly genderqueer) but I personally would like Link to be implicitly without gender. So no gendered pronouns, and maybe a few comments from the developers to say Link is supposed to be whatever gender the player wants.