I agree. I feel most people here are analysing too much into things and it doesn't really affect the game.
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Why can't Link be enby/genderqueer if his androgyny is why we have no gender option?
- Thread starter P-Tux7
- Start date
If it doesn't affect the game then what's the issue in discussing it on a video game forum? I don't understand how it's being analysed an inappropriate amount.
The answer is fairly easy. Even in presenting androgynous, the male normative must be followed. In a system like that, more is asked of women than of men, because the innate presumption is that men should not do the presumed work to identify with an androgynous woman because it would be harder for them than for a woman to identify with an androgynous man. Or, for a more scrutinous answer, men have and maintain the privilege of offloading that kind of emotional/intellectual work to women.
I feel like they're already most of the way there to begin with. Can't people just headcanon the character already? It's not like there's a lot of gendered language around Link in most modern Zelda games to begin with.
User Banned (permanent): troll account
Japan just isn't as woke as we enlightened ones here on Era. Someday we might sufficiently educate them, then they'll start injecting conversations about gender identity into their beloved decades-old franchises. And the world will be a better place.
Why headcanon it when it'd be better to make it more official, and not a huge stretch from where we are already? Also being gender ambiguous is a much better fit for Link as an avatar.
It's link. He is the embodiment of courage. Courage feels like a natural compliment with self-confidence. He's rocking that outfit and he knows it. Of course he doesn't care what other people think. However, just because you dress a certain way, doesn't mean you associate as any one gender.Well, Link doesn't seem to mind be called a girl during the times he dressed as one. When you first get the Gerudo outfit, he blushes upon being complimented on looking like a pretty girl. During the boots sidequest, he clearly did not mind being flirted with as a girl; even if the quest is all about getting the boots that doesn't stop someone from feeling uncomfortable with being known or called as such.
I recall people calling him a girl across Hyrule if you wear the Gerudo outfit, and he doesn't mind or do anything different. Seems to be comfortable with whatever, either he's really confident and comfortable with him masculinity or he flows with what people refer to him as; Link is Link.
Honestly, I'd love to play a game where Link was a girl but and the overall story kind of allows for it. Who says Link has to be reincarnated as a boy? I think if they do a game with Link as a girl, it needs to be obvious.
Original idea behind Link was to express the feelings of exploration Miyamoto had exploring the woods as a kid. Besides the social norms behind making him a boy originally, making Link a boy originally had to be in part the design of recreating Miyamotos experience.
Link is a boy and has always been a boy. That can and should change though. If the doctor can reincarnate as a woman, so can Link. No reason Zelda can't be a man either.
Thank you for taking the time to respond, I just feel that this topic is just a bit pointless, I feel that it is being analysed an inappropriate amount by having pages about it. I don't feel Link's gender would have any effect on the story. Sorry if I offended you and hope any queries were answered.
Aonuma says Link is male. Link is androgynous. You can be androgynous and identify as a man or a woman. Cis men can be androgynous or feminine without having to have their gender questioned. I'm always perplexed by people wanting a Link gender option instead of playable Zelda. She's the series' eponymous character and deserves her time in the spotlight.
I've no real issue with anything they do with Link. They're supposed to all be different people anyway and any aspect of him is basically our own personal headcanon aside from "he beats Ganon" and other little tidbits here and there. So a gender option of some kind would be a welcome addition. Make a blank self insert? Might as well take it further.
There is no "inappropriate" amount of analysis. Nobody is being hurt by the topic, if threads making fun of a live action movie about a blue hedgehog fighting Jim Carrey are perfectly reasonable then this thread is no more pointless than anything else on here.
Frankly, I think even inside of Nintendo there's uncertainty over what Link is actually supposed to be. There's an inherent conflict between "Link as a mere avatar" and "Link as a basic character". When discussing the possibility of a female Link you can always witness how these sides of the fanbase clash with each other. People, who think of Link as a replacable avatar who don't mind him seeing replaced and people who look at Link as a character, who might feel that once you give people too much control over Link's identity Link stops being Link to them. It's also a discussion that's tainted by emotions, since for a lot of people in places like this, the Zelda series has been a big part of their childhood, so that they hold their specific version of Link very dear to their hearts.
This conflict is enforced by the games and developers, who like to state that Link is an avatar that everyone is supposed to connect to and who portray Link as a mostly mute character, but who also went out of their way to give Link a lot of expressions, never gave players the choice to actually customize Link's looks and in recent games event went as far as making it impossible to change his name.
This conflict is enforced by the games and developers, who like to state that Link is an avatar that everyone is supposed to connect to and who portray Link as a mostly mute character, but who also went out of their way to give Link a lot of expressions, never gave players the choice to actually customize Link's looks and in recent games event went as far as making it impossible to change his name.
Why not just leave it ambiguous, that way it leaves it accessable to anyone with any gender identity?
The thread about the sonic movie is acceptable because it is about video games, this is acceptable but I feel is unnecessary, I want to share my opinion because this is a forum and I also believe in free speech.
From a business standpoint, most people in real life are heterosexual so they want to relate to most potential customers also being heterosexual will always be prominent as that is necessary for the human race to reproduce, I agree that diversity should be encouraged and accepted.
Since he shows characteristics of men and women, some would say he's non-binary whether it is explicitly stated or not...
I appreciate wanting to relate to the character that you are playing, but why do we need to know Link's sexual orientation when it's not at all applicable to the actual game? There is not even a character editor. I think for some games, especially ones with "romance" options, this makes sense and would be a welcome addition, but not for Zelda.
This thread is just as necessary as every other thread on the forum. You have a very strange and ambiguous baseline for what you consider necessary and unnecessary. So unless that's something you want to specify and define, your opinion while accepted is about as toothless as a newborn.
I don't think you actually read or understood what you just typed out so let me do it for you.
You just responded to the question of "Why does everyone have to be straight" by saying because most people are straight and thus businesses have to make most characters straight and thus relateable?
Not even getting into the fact that you can relate to anyone of any sexuality, your idea is entirely founded upon the mistaken principle that it is the duty of a business to appeal to whatever the sexual majority is and that it has to be this way.
You talk about free speech so I suggest that you also go do some free reading as well as you seem mindbogglingly ignorant about everything that you're saying.
I guess I never even thought of Link as even a male. Link's always just seemed like an avatar. Hell, you can rename the character in just about every game.
What women characteristics I'm supposed to see in BOTW Link? Even that comment regarding OoT link being "gender-neutral" is kind of silly.
Good grief, language like this annoys the hell out of me. No one is needing literally every protagonist ever to be LGBT+. Literally no one has said that. That statement just reeks of "oh shut up you LGBT people, stop going on about representation".
No one is. The question is who's reading "make everything queer" when we ask "can we have some queer representation".
Is Link even straight? I don't think his sexuality is ever mentioned and I don't think he ever has a romantic relationship in a game.
Skyward Sword and Spirit Tracks hint strongly at it, most other games skirt around it or were built to allow (straight) fans to have their own headcanons (OoT has Malon, Ruto, and Zelda, for example)
But the thing is Link reincarnates every time so the preferences, gender, personality quirks, etc. should be malleable regardless. The only descriptor that needs to stay consistent is "courageous hero."
Hell I'm pretty sure a decade ago most people would be up in arms about Link wearing blue and losing the hat.
I think this comes of that Zelda normally is more of a actual character, while link is literally an player avatar. So it's no wonder people would like to be represented in said avatar for once.
Well, his sexuality and gender are like never part of the game. What would stop people to selfinsert into Link as genderqueer?
You can already do this though. Link has no character and no identity, so it's very easy to project traits onto him. And there's really nothing wrong with that.
None that i can pull right now, no. Most of it you can research yourself though. Male as norm is a topic unto itself. Male privilege is very big and you can easily find resources about it. The notion that with things as they are men have to do less effort is just an extrapolation of the commentary in question. If they design the character to be easier to identify with, they are there identifying an effort that people are making. Going from a more masculine design to a more gender neutral design was likely a decision to ease that effort for players for whom it would be easier to identify with someone closer to the female spectrum, but not going the whole way (as in, letting Link embody a female body, coding his androgyny with a body of an equidistant "opposite" gender ) means that they're still asking for more effort of those people than for those for whom someone closer to the male spectrum is easier to identify with.
That's the point I was trying to make.
How would you write Link as genderqueer without changing how the game handles the characterization and story. It's not just giving people the option but Nintendo would basically need to change the game's fundamentals.
Well that's being very generous, quite a few Zelda games have a sort of implicit heterosexual romance between link and zelda. Plus the push for a female playable character doesn't come out of thin air, people miss it because what is there is perceived as not enough.
People that think Link is totally devoid of soul or character are wrong. He has a distinct identity that is, ironically, only further amplified through his lack of a voice. The player notices more about his body language, reactions, facial expressions and behaviour as a result. Link, and his appearance, are iconic. This is established, and a wholly valid reason to maintain the overall identity of the character in each game here on.
I DO agree that allowing players to have a more personal influence on Link's actions throughout the games would be positive, however - and this includes giving people the freedom to express their own identities through Link as a result. Zelda presents a unique experience where the player feels as if they are both playing as Link and yet simultaneously as if they are Link - that is, an overlap appears between roleplay and self representation. Anything that expands upon this dynamic moving forward is great. Keep Link androgynous. Let him be queer, if the player so chooses. Maintain the aspects of the character that define him, but allow players to inject their own identities into the character also. After all, Link has shown to be confident, bold and dynamic on numerous ocassions in the past - so anything goes, really.
I DO agree that allowing players to have a more personal influence on Link's actions throughout the games would be positive, however - and this includes giving people the freedom to express their own identities through Link as a result. Zelda presents a unique experience where the player feels as if they are both playing as Link and yet simultaneously as if they are Link - that is, an overlap appears between roleplay and self representation. Anything that expands upon this dynamic moving forward is great. Keep Link androgynous. Let him be queer, if the player so chooses. Maintain the aspects of the character that define him, but allow players to inject their own identities into the character also. After all, Link has shown to be confident, bold and dynamic on numerous ocassions in the past - so anything goes, really.
Link was, and still is, somewhat of an androgynous icon for me. He's the hero I aspired to be as I grew up, and his appearance drives a confidence in me to present as I choose today. I think it's brilliant that an icon can do this and yet still maintain positive qualities that appeal to everyone else too.
Oh, and I'm all for a playable Zelda.
Oh, and I'm all for a playable Zelda.