Why can't people STFU about conversations not about them? Why do you feel your opinion needs to be heard?

oledome

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,752
The mod team does a good job, there's a TOS and this is a stealth Marvel thread, things bother me about the forum from time to time but it's unreasonable for me to expect "solidarity" on every topic, let alone movie scenes, or else what kind of a snooze fest would this place be

[edit] I was not a part of the thread in the OP
 

Somnid

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,788
Social media is funny like that. Nobody actually wants conversations with 100 different strangers at the same time because that's a really stupid idea. In fact it's the repetition that annoys people, I can take a joke or a hot take a couple times but after like 10 you just want everyone to shut up. But we do it none-the-less.

I think we do it to hone ourselves. We formulate a thought and pull the lever and maybe, just maybe someone will say they thought it was cool.
 

Burrman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,635
I don’t really agree with your example. I like that scene too. If I have the right to praise it, I should have a right to criticize it as well. I thought it was a little cheesy but the I love most of the cheese in the MCU. I don’t take it to serious.
 

SleeperBWG

Member
Dec 18, 2018
209
People have a right to have an opinion and social things do affect us all, some in a much more direct way granted, but we are all part of society so we are involved. The only way to really make change is for discussions to happen. Echo chambers do not change the way people outside of them act or feel simply because they are not involved or included in the discussion. Racists aren't going to change because they are told to by people of other races, discussions change how people look at things (look into Daryl Davis for an example of this working). Granted there is a time and a place to have a discussion if you don't agree (i can't stress that enough), but both sides need to discuss things in a respectful (even if you find their ideals unacceptable and reprehensible) and mature nature to make any change happen in my opinion. One side deciding one thing and getting more and more set in their ways while the other side does the same doesn't help anyone. It just leads to a bigger divide and escalates confrontations when they happen.

I saw someone say people don't talk about the important things with friends or family and in general I agree they don't, but they should. My friends and I do it all the time and sure we don't agree about everything, but that is when we have discussions. As long as you have an open mind and can accept that you can be wrong it can go a long way.
 
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BlackGoku03

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,963
It's okay for a white dude to have an opinion on race or gender. The problem comes in when you think you're an authority on the issue over a person who has lived experience with it.
Correct.

It also lets us know who's been drinking that diet racism.

I feel like we had an intense thread on this topic a month or two ago.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,671
BossAttack you start way too many threads about Game of Thrones/ASOIAF to complain about why others feel like their opinions need to be heard ;)
 

Verano

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
975
The most annoying ones in this forum are the ones who say stuff like "can't we stop using the word ____?" You know who you are. Always having kneejerk reaction to certain words. STFU plz. I dont wanna hear about your "concern" that doesn't add to the conversation other than being seen as an entitled prick. Who gives a shit? Stop derailing threads so people can please you
 

Ryder9

Alt account
Banned
May 26, 2018
652

Driggonny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,170
I think a better example would be if I were to say Avengers: Endgame is amazing/sucks when I've never seen it and have no interest in seeing it. I see that all the time with video games and have even been guilty of it myself. People not having even the base level of knowledge required for a conversation, yet insisting to have the conversation anyway, can be annoying.
 

Big One

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,817
This is why I stay out of most of those threads. It's not that I don't have an opinion on it, I just really feel like I don't need to repeat it ad-nauseam unless it's necessary. I don't need to prove everyday that I'm "woke," and rarely is there anything I can say that others in the thread haven't already said anyway.
 

bawjaws

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,523
I'm of the mind that you can have an opinion on anything you want, but you'll never have a true understanding of what it's like unless you've been through it, which also applies to being part of groups other than the ones you identify as. As long as you recognize both, I think you're good. Unfortunately most people don't think about the latter.
It's okay for a white dude to have an opinion on race or gender. The problem comes in when you think you're an authority on the issue over a person who has lived experience with it.
I saw someone say people don't talk about the important things with friends or family and in general I agree they don't, but they should. My friends and I do it all the time and sure we don't agree about everything, but that is when we have discussions. As long as you have an open mind and can accept that you can be wrong it can go a long way.
These three posts sum it up for me, really. It's fine to enter into a discussion, even if it is about an issue that doesn't directly affect you, provided that you go into it without thinking that you are an authority on the subject or have greater insight than those who are directly affected. And part of that means being willing to admit that you don't know everything and being willing to learn from the discussion rather than just enforcing your opinion.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
10,442
Part of my personal aversion to members of outgroups trying to muscle in on discussions pertaining to in-groups and actually regulate anything, is when they insist after pages of education and discussion about an issue that has a clear-cut consensus needs some more Devil's Advocate pedantry, or that "they're trying to learn," or that they "have to critically examine ALL social issues," when 99 times out of 100 you know they're fucking lying. They could've easily read the previous hundreds of replies and gotten a baseline education in the subject.

And I don't get it. I don't get this confounding desire by folks in majority groups to infiltrate spaces designated for out groups to stir up a ruckus. I don't know why they insist on literally trying to make folks miserable beyond petty revenge for how constantly mad and offended they are. It'd be like me going to t_d to troll. I have zero interest in even acknowledging conservative nuttery on the internet, much less posting in their spaces.
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,627
Portland, OR
Because Twitter is raising a generation of Reply Guys.
Yeah twitter totally turned dudes into tone deaf mansplainers. It’s technology’s fault.

Edit: oof, this thread.

In case it needed clarification, there’s a difference between just having an opinion and understanding the context of your opinion/viewpoint. You can have an opinion and still understand when you should be speaking vs when you should be listening/amplifying the voices of others.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,371
This is a bullshit argument, no one should complain about representation happening but when it's done in a poor way, everyone is given license to complain.

In Endgame, the scene with the gay character in the support group and the scene where all the female avengers happened to be in the same place on the battlefield at the same time were both barebones and low-effort attempts at inclusion.

They're shitty and yes, they are pandering to the type of person who wants to do the token minimal level of effort that looks woke but doesn't open the door enough to ruffle feathers. Seriously, take a second to analyze if there is some legitimate reason to feel bothered by it.

I mean, 95% of the movie was about straight, male characters making decisions to save the world with a couple scenes of inclusion sprinkled in a really jarring way as though the writers had a quota to meet.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,950
Tokyo
ahahaha from the title I thought this thread was about real shit like the recent attacks on abortion rights or something. Of course it's a passive aggressive snipe at someone who criticized a scene from the MCU on a message board.
This. Wtf, out of all the examples the OP could choose from they picked one of the weakest. There is a real concern about woman's health and equal rights considering Trump is rolling back protections set during Obama. However, OP wants to be passive aggressive to people who didn't like a movie scene?!
 

motherless

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,282
Sure a persons opinion may be worthless to you, and you have the choice to ignore that opinion. I ignore some peoples opinions/posts on here and real life all the time, doesn't mean they should have to be censored simply because I personal don't care about what they have to say.
 

plau

Member
Oct 30, 2017
209
Everyone have opinions and attitudes about things they aren't educated or familiar about, and social media is a good place to discuss and learn about them. Of course there's different contexts in social media where joining in isn't appropriate, but in general I disagree with OP.
 

psynergyadept

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,922
People will have opinions on everything despite what ever level of information they have on the subject. Though it is annoying when like here where people don't read to OP/threadmarks/Staff post and deliver their hot takes.
 

Deleted member 19218

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,323
It's totally normal on a public forum that people from around the world will share their opinion.

Look at world news for example, we discuss things happening everywhere all the time even if we don't live in that country and know what it's like living there.
 

Deleted member 2761

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,620
Correct.

It also lets us know who's been drinking that diet racism.

I feel like we had an intense thread on this topic a month or two ago.
Yep, all the "bUt mY fReEzE pEaCh" and "tHiS iS cEnSoRsHiP" asshats don't seem to realize that they're in a forum dominated by straight white dudes who generally share their same opinion. The minorities and the underprivileged airing their grievances literally have to shout against a whirlwind of whitesplaining.

You got all sorts of guys who decide that their contribution is going to be a low-effort shitpost designed to humiliate instead of elucidate, ranging from "it's not a big deal" to some shitty strawman take. It's an unending torrent of dismissive hostility that's fucking emotionally draining, and we either leave the thread defeated in spirit or banned for losing our cool. The Gordon Ramsay thread about Lucky Cat is a good example of Asian-era being shouted down by a bunch of white people.
 

Neece

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,397
This is a bullshit argument, no one should complain about representation happening but when it's done in a poor way, everyone is given license to complain.

In Endgame, the scene with the gay character in the support group and the scene where all the female avengers happened to be in the same place on the battlefield at the same time were both barebones and low-effort attempts at inclusion.

They're shitty and yes, they are pandering to the type of person who wants to do the token minimal level of effort that looks woke but doesn't open the door enough to ruffle feathers. Seriously, take a second to analyze if there is some legitimate reason to feel bothered by it.

I mean, 95% of the movie was about straight, male characters making decisions to save the world with a couple scenes of inclusion sprinkled in a really jarring way as though the writers had a quota to meet.
More or less agree with this take. I wasn't going to start a thread about it, and I didn't even mention it in any of the End Game threads I posted in because, well, I didn't think it was that big of a deal. But when someone, a man fwiw, actually made a thread to discuss the scene specifically, I read the first page, was like what the hell, and added my two cents ; mainly that I thought the scene was low effort pandering for woke points that didn't put any real effort to showcase their women and integrate them into a cool action sequence.

I noted that most of the women had never even spoken a word to each other and that the scene didn't let them do cool teamwork shit together, they just stood in the same frame, and I personally wasn't going to say "wow marvel, great job," because I felt it wasn't good enough. I was content to just one and done the thread because like I said, the scene itself was whatever to me and I didn't feel so strongly about it that I needed to debate anyone about it especially if they took genuine joy from it, but I responded several times because I felt like the opinion of why it didn't work wasn't being accurately or fairly represented.

In less words, basically this.



I'm always down to reevaluate my behavior and do better, but I genuinely don't understand why this is seem as an issue. Especially since most of the people in that thread, for example, were men arguing with each other.
 
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Spring

Member
Oct 31, 2017
239
So OP you are saying if I don't like or share the same view as you then I shouldn't voice my opinion?
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
It's one thing to butt in on things of actual importance, but something as harmless as the women-together scene in Endgame is certainly fair game for comment from anyone.
 

Deleted member 225

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
1,658
Most people aren’t smart enough to realize they aren’t actually smart and their opinion on 96% of things is uninformed, unimportant, and unwanted.

Including myself.
 

Cyclonesweep

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,811
The issue with that line of thinking is it's how you create tons of echo chambers where no one learns shit or learns anything. Yes people need to not act like an authority on shit unless they are. That includes people who are actually part of the conversation.
 

BlackGoku03

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,963
Yep, all the "bUt mY fReEzE pEaCh" and "tHiS iS cEnSoRsHiP" asshats don't seem to realize that they're in a forum dominated by straight white dudes who generally share their same opinion. The minorities and the underprivileged airing their grievances literally have to shout against a whirlwind of whitesplaining.

You got all sorts of guys who decide that their contribution is going to be a low-effort shitpost designed to humiliate instead of elucidate, ranging from "it's not a big deal" to some shitty strawman take. It's an unending torrent of dismissive hostility that's fucking emotionally draining, and we either leave the thread defeated in spirit or banned for losing our cool. The Gordon Ramsay thread about Lucky Cat is a good example of Asian-era being shouted down by a bunch of white people.
Agreed. And I'm glad I missed that Gordon thread.
 

KillLaCam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,889
Singapore and Seoul
I kinda get what you’re trying to say in the first half. But progress only happens even you can get the people who aren’t effected to care. Echo chambers don’t get anything done. But it should be clear that the effected people’s views are still more important in these situations.

The second half seems like you are upset about a dumb movie disagreement. Not about an actual issue. Itd be idiotic to think only the people who are most similar to who is on screen can have an opinion about a certain scene. Especially when its just something like a comic movie or some other kinda blockbuster type thing
 

Vern

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,097
Didn't men direct that scene? And didn't men write it ? How can men create it but not have an opinion on it? Or did you think Avengers was a documentary?
 

Surface of Me

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,207
Pretty poor example considering the writers themselves questioned whether or not they were pandering with that scene.
 

Deleted member 6949

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
7,787
I'm probably going to make myself look really ignorant right now... but OP's profile says male, so isn't this entire thread literally predicated on OP mansplaining the 'correct' opinion on the scene that men shouldn't express an opinion on?
 

Apath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,153
I sincerely doubt you withold your opinion on every topic which you do not relate to or have no experience with. People will post their opinions, and you are free to ignore them as much as you please.
Pretty poor example considering the writers themselves questioned whether or not they were pandering with that scene.
I mean, they were pandering, but that entire sequence was pandering. It was not out of place, so I never had an issue with it.
 

Roygbiv95

Alt account
Banned
Jan 24, 2019
1,037
For me, personally, it depends on the severity of how stupid an opinion is, how often someone with opinions says something dumb, etc.

If you're clearly ready to die on a hill about something and that hill represents a monumental stupidity that invalidates the quality of life of an innocent person for no reason, then maybe that perspective shouldn't be voiced in some discussions.

But beyond reacting accordingly to any opinion that is clearly trash, a lot of online interaction among progressive communities to me reads as a battle of who gets to be right, who deserves the most respect, rather than one of understanding where someone might be coming from, nuance and valuing more objective truths as much as personal/subjective ones.

Some of the judgement you see, and mainly this seems to be coming from folks who are in highschool and college and still finding their voice so I get it, feels like the political discourse equivalent of looking up the answer to the math problem and calling it a day instead of showing your work.

I dunno, ultimately I just feel like even Era can sometimes benefit more from using critical thinking to figure out why someone is saying something they disagree with and approaching it with care and thought instead of dogpiling on it for victory points or because of an emotional kneejerk reaction or a perception of the entirety of who that person is or whatever. Even most professional social scientists and academics aren't that smart so I guess my posting ethos is basically challenging stuff I know for sure is dumb while hanging back more in heated discussions and always reacting with skepticism every time I read a post on the internet written by anyone in a voice of authority of someone who has proven they are that smart. I certainly know I'm not, at least at this point in my life.
 
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ty_hot

Member
Dec 14, 2017
6,200
I hate it when someone clearly has no knowledge about the topic but is ready to give an opinion. Usually these are the same people that treat your facts as “opinion” while making their uneducated guesses (to not say something worst) are facts. There is also a big intersection of people that behave like this and vote for Bolsonaro (and it’s variations around the globe, Trump etc).

A Few weeks ago I had to listen to a shity mom (had a son when she was 14, never took care of him, they both dont care about each other) say that she would love to adopt a child, “but only if it is a black boy/girl from Africa”. It was extremely difficult but I managed to not throw the truth at her face (that any kid in Africa is better off not having her as a mom, because she clearly isnt a good one). Not to say the whole “from Africa” comment, feels like she is more interested in being seen as a good person than actually being a good person, which fits with her personality.
 

Apollo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,915
What I hate in particular that you see every now and then is when people try to tell those affected by the topic at hand that their feelings are wrong. That’s super invalidating. You can have your own opinion, but that opinion should really not be used in an attempt to silence and/or diminish the experience of the person being actively impacted