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Why did racing games on consoles for the longest time use Face buttons for acceleration in video games?

Crayon

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
The dual shock 1 and Gran Turismo 1 launched together, selling analog steering AND gas/break. So day one dual analog was supporting this.

If you think the shoulders of a SNES or Saturn pad would be better that face buttons then I have to wonder if you over ever tried it.

Btw paddles in cars are used for
Shifting, not the gas and brake. And generally the shoulder buttons were used for shifting so ...
 
Dolce

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,252
You're thinking of things from modern times, where analog triggers are standard. There was no reason to use the top buttons for acceleration or braking when they were digital. As soon as the XBOX controller hit, the shift to using the top buttons happened. The DS2 didn't use the XBOX style trigger, so even though they were analog, there wasn't much reason.

Crayon said:
The dual shock 1 and Gran Turismo 1 launched together, selling analog steering AND gas/break. So day one dual analog was supporting this.

If you think the shoulders of a SNES or Saturn pad would be better that face buttons then I have to wonder if you over ever tried it.

Btw paddles in cars are used for
Shifting, not the gas and brake. And generally the shoulder buttons were used for shifting so ...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

DualShock 1 did not have analog buttons, that was added with the DualShock 2.
 

Salty Soup

Member
Oct 25, 2017
223
I think the first game I played where accelerate wasn't on a face button by default was Cruisin USA on 64. Didn't like it at the time.
 
Andromeda

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,846
Senator Toadstool said:
I've been thinking about this for a while after playing a bunch of retro racers this weekend.


We've had shoulder Buttons since the 80s and they're far more natural of acceleration and deceleration (I mean paddles exist in cars and have for a long time) why did this awkward system come about and why did it take until the 360/ps3 era to be finally beaten?
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Do you accelerate and decelerate with paddles in real cars?
 
Dolce

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,252
JustinH said:
Maybe that person's referring to using the right analog stick for acceleration/braking? Could you do that in the first GT?
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it's definitely possible, but i don't think people consider analog sticks face buttons, so it kind of goes against that. and it was very non-standard, not many people ended up using that.
 
Timu

Timu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,574
I guess it was the standard.

I prefer shoulder buttons/triggers though.
 
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terrible1fi

Member
Jun 4, 2019
989
because l and r were not pressure sensitive, instead they were on off switches so it wouldn't have made a difference
 

Random Painted Highway

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,710
Thinking about shoulder accel for Mario kart sounds like a nightmare. I skipped consoles for the most part for two gens until I learned how to drive in crackdown and grand theft auto iv, what a trip.
 
AgeEighty

AgeEighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,418
Until shoulder buttons were analog, there wouldn't really have been a point. Clicking a digital shoulder button isn't any more like pressing down an accelerator than pressing a digital face button.

Also in 1991 when SNES released, shoulder buttons were new and not an intuitive way to input, yet.
 
Heynongman!

Heynongman!

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,933
cooldawn said:
Why are triggers better?

I still use face buttons for acceleration and braking as well as the D-Pad to steer (gearing is done with L1 and R1) for all racing games I play. I'm way more competitive using that set-up than triggers. It feels a lot more natural. When you need to correct a slide it's much easier for me to modulate inputs (acceleration and steering) to catch a slide than triggers and thumb-sticks.

I expect arcade racers are even better for face buttons than GT, for instance, too!
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Driving a real a car involves a pressure sensitive pedal for gas and acceleration and the steering wheel is a linear wheel where the driver can choose how quickly they want to turn it. For gas and brakes, using a digital input for either in a real car means it's 100% or 0% which means you're always peeling out from a stop, over accelerating out of turns, and you're always slamming the brakes. That translates directly back into video game racing. Feathering and maintaining variable percentages for throttle and brakes are really important in Motorsport, video game or otherwise.

For the wheel it's about having control over how fast you turn the wheel. The dpad being digital means 1 speed which is 100, having the range on the stick means you can both ease into turns and cut quick when necessary
 

cooldawn

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,449
Heynongman! said:
Driving a real a car involves a pressure sensitive pedal for gas and acceleration and the steering wheel is a linear wheel where the driver can choose how quickly they want to turn it. For gas and brakes, using a digital input for either in a real car means it's 100% or 0% which means you're always peeling out from a stop, over accelerating out of turns, and you're always slamming the brakes. That translates directly back into video game racing. Feathering and maintaining variable percentages for throttle and brakes are really important in Motorsport, video game or otherwise.

For the wheel it's about having control over how fast you turn the wheel. The dpad being digital means 1 speed which is 100, having the range on the stick means you can both ease into turns and cut quick when necessary
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I drive myself too so I know but it doesn't translate for me well enough on triggers. I've used a steering wheel with pedals too and I didn't like it.

For me face buttons and D-Pad has always felt better. I feel way more in-control. I don't know why but it works way better for me.

The only sticking point is the sensitivity. Not too much of a bother for arcade games but for Project CARS, Assetto Corsa, WRC or Gran Turismo it matters. Luckily Gran Turismo has perfected the maechanic but the others leave a lot to be desired, even though they have mechanics in place to compensate.
 
Outrun

Outrun

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,782
Couldnt you play Sega Rally on the Saturn with the Nights Controller?

Maybe I am misremembering?
 
The Albatross

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,038
Shoulder buttons were not universal or universally implemented until the mid to late 90s. Even after they were they were usually reserved for auxillary actions not primary actions. On playstation they were spongy and not satisfying and for primary action like break and accelerate you wanted something responsive. Using them to look left and right or back made sense at the time.

Also no racing games I can remember had floating cameras so your right thumb was free to sit on the face buttons, not an analog stick. There might be one or two but it wasn't common, cameras were usually fixed and you used a button if you wanted to look left or right, holding both of them to look back.

Thinking back the first major game I remember that used shoulder buttons for primary actions was Ape Escape. And it was a novel concept from my memory, made sense because it's the first major game for me that made full use of two analog sticks. I'm sure there were others but that was the first action game I remember where primary action controls were mapped to shoulder buttons.

It wasn't natural or common. These days almost all shooting games use the shoulders too, left to aim, right to fire, but back on playstation and N64 that wasn't the case either.
 
Gelf

Gelf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,311
Outrun said:
Couldnt you play Sega Rally on the Saturn with the Nights Controller?

Maybe I am misremembering?
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There are definitely Saturn racers that can use the 3D controller triggers, I'm not sure on Sega Rally specifically, maybe a later revision? Edit: googling suggests this to be the case.

I have seen some insist that it's the only way to play Sega Touring Car.
 
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SharpX68K

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
10,518
Chicagoland
Extra Sauce said:
which 80s console had shoulder buttons?
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Exactly my question

The only shoulder buttons on a I know of from the 80s were prototype Super Famicom control pads shown in 1988/1988.

LB5xnoJ.jpg
 
Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,741
USA
Honestly I still kind of prefer face buttons for racing games. I think I'd be fine if we removed triggers entirely.
 
RobotHaus

RobotHaus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,946
Mars University
I think depending on the game you don't even need an acceleration button. Thank goodness for MK8 auto-accelerate. Less stress on the controller for longer sessions.
 
Lightning Count

Lightning Count

Member
Jan 27, 2019
16,074
Fuck off
Senator Toadstool said:
I've been thinking about this for a while after playing a bunch of retro racers this weekend.


We've had shoulder Buttons since the 80s and they're far more natural of acceleration and deceleration (I mean paddles exist in cars and have for a long time) why did this awkward system come about and why did it take until the 360/ps3 era to be finally beaten?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Dreamcast popularised triggers for acceleration and braking long before this.
 
OrangeNova

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,659
Canada
ghostcrew said:
Living through the SNES/PS1 generation I wouldn't have agreed with this. The only reason we consider them analogous to the accelerator and brake now is because we're used to that. We werent used to it back then - shoulder buttons were generally used for secondary functions like hopping or gliding.

B/X was always your primary input. Jumping in action games or accelerating in racing games etc.
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This is the answer, I remember when playing games on the SNES, L+R were always relegated to extra actions(Cycle weapons in MMX, Hold out sword in Soul Blazer) or even just not used(Link to the past).

Even come PS1, where games were getting more complicated, there was still this aversion to using anything other than thumbs for input.
 
skobuffs

skobuffs

Member
Mar 21, 2021
526
Have you held an SNES controller recently? There aren't any handles like modern controllers so you don't have much leverage to counter the pressure on the shoulder. I just picked one up while reading this. You basically have to squeeze the face and back in order to hold L or R for an extended period of time. Using the triggers for acceleration just doesn't ergonomically work.
 
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