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Why do expats refer to themselves as expats but not as immigrants?
- Thread starter Taki
- Start date
The whole issue seems to stem from the fact that a lot of people don't even seem to understand the meaning including lots of folks in this thread.
I can understand why people would misuse it too - the word immigrant has been unfairly demonized by assholes.
This would be my opinion on it. While the definition may be clear (intent to live vs just for work) Asian workers in the Middle East or Mexican seasonal workers in the US never seem to be called expats. There are definitely class and race connotations I feel.
All the folks I know who call themselves expats are from the UK, have been in Germany for 30+ years, are married to Germans and have German passports.
Yeah but this definition does not include a white person dis so what's the point?
Lots of assess hanging out. I would call myself an expat because I haven't decided if I want to stay permanently or not. I'm not white
Your argument makes no sense given that white people who enter into the UK are referred to as immigrants.
There's a difference between an expat and a immigrant typically in that one is moving to a better situation than their home country, typically economically or politically... the other is moving to another country laterally or even to one economically worse off.
Think of it as one is moving up in the world, the other staying the same.
Think of it as one is moving up in the world, the other staying the same.
It seems like people are projecting their own biases and insecurities onto some rigidly defined terms.
I lived in Saudi Arabia for 7 years in my youth and everyone who worked for multinational companies or foreign militaries, and were just there for their jobs, were called expats, regardless of race.
I lived in Saudi Arabia for 7 years in my youth and everyone who worked for multinational companies or foreign militaries, and were just there for their jobs, were called expats, regardless of race.
If we're resorting to anecdotes, then we have them on both sides.
Hard to be racist and anti-immigrant if you're an immigrant yourself. Being an ex-pat allows you to remain a garbage racist
I think its fair to say that yes shit head racists will not want to be referred to as immigrants while at the same time there are plenty of minorities and non-racist white people who also use the expat term because they don't plan on staying in that country forever.
Yes. On one side it's people saying "I've heard these two words used with undertones connected to perceptions of race and privalidge", and on the other side it's people saying "I've not heard or noticed these words used with those undertones".
Both groups can be correct, but the second groups perception doesn't overrule the first.
Have you read through this thread at all or are you just making another dumb post like some of the other people who wanted to be "progressive" without actually know what they're talking about?
Expat is used by racists now?
It's pretty simple how the terminology is usually used...
"I'm an expat <insert nationality here>" or "I'm an immigrant" or "I'm an immigrant from <insert country here>".
Expat implies you're an immigrant. It also implies you are a temporary immigrant, which means you are more likely to be pro-immigration or you wouldn't even be permitted to enjoy your temporary stay. Versus someone who is a PR or new citizen whose status is much harder to revoke.
Expat is almost always used by people who have a shorter stay, hence are more likely to mention or identify with their country of origin. The longer you stay in a country, the more you realize your place of origin is less important. I say that as someone who has used the term and emigrated 15 years ago. This thread is hot-take central.
This is poor phrasing on my part. Ex-pat is a term usually used by the daily fail to describe pretty much any English person not living within England and also used by alt right groups like Britain first as a term almost solely restricted to English migrants to describe them in a more favorable light than the immigrants working in Britain that they blame for literally everything. That's what my post was directed at.
Don't instantly jump into defensive mode, my post was worded poorly and should've reflected my point better, you can leave the condescension somewhere else I don't post anything to appear "Progressive"
See above. I'm not attacking everyone using the term I'm applying it mainly to several English conservative/ alt right groups and also towards some others within Europe. Not everyone who may be an Ex-Pat in the actual sense of the word. I was an Ex-pat myself when I took part in the J1 visa program in college to work in the US for a couple of summers.
You only have to look at the Brexit vote to see how Expat is used there, British "Ex-pats" in Spain were astonished that them voting for Brexit could lead to them having to acquire a visa.
In the modern meaning, anyone who leaves their native country is an expatriate, regardless of their reasoning. Every dictionary reflects this definition.
I too am one in the traditional sense, moving under a skilled migrant visa and now with citizenship. Every single British person I've ever met has called themselves an expat and I live in an area where you come across them pretty often. This is in North America. I'm also originally from Sydney which is backpacker central. I don't think it's a dog-whistle for racism, it's a fairly entrenched word in British vocabulary.
As in dictionaries often omit nuance and subtext from their definitions.
It's incorrect to use immigrant if you have no plans to move your permanent residence. Migrant has the additional meaning of regular movement.
Yeah, that makes a lot more sense (also makes sense now why it's shortened as expat and not ex-pat). It's been a while (like 15+ years) since I first came across the word and I don't encounter it much. My memory of what it meant must have warped over time.
Or you know, different countries and cultures use different words for similar things.
There aren't too many countries on the planet that describe non-permanent resident immigrants as aliens, like the US does.
A statement can lack nuance whilst still understanding the nuance of the subject it's discussing.
Similarly, a statement can contain nuance, whilst not understanding he nuance of a subject it is discussing.
Much like reductionist yet accurate statements about how people's use of expat vs immigrant is rooted in racism and privileged, and how dictionary definitions can be verbose on explaining grammatical syntax, but completely ignore actual usage and subtext.
I've watched tons of House Hunters International, and the American or British family moving to another country 99% of the time refers to themselves as expats, or the show's narrator does. This is even the case when they're settling down in a new country for good.
I've honestly never noticed a white person calling themselves an immigrant. They may not call themselves an ex-pat, but I honestly can't remember them ever saying "As an immigrant, etc. etc."
I've honestly never noticed a white person calling themselves an immigrant. They may not call themselves an ex-pat, but I honestly can't remember them ever saying "As an immigrant, etc. etc."
no i use expats also. Im brown. Also thin its more common in diplomatic circles etc. Dad served as a diplomat briefly when I was young so maybe thats why. Also I say international community rather than immigrant community etc etc.
Lot of bad answers in this thread who compensate for being wrong by being edgy:
Expats - Temporary
Migrant - Citizen of a country traveling long distances for often temporary/seasonal work
Immigrant - Permanent/Citizenship seeking
I'm an expat when living/working in China because Chinese law pretty much will never allow me to become a permanent citizen, IE an immigrant, even if I wanted to.
Expats - Temporary
Migrant - Citizen of a country traveling long distances for often temporary/seasonal work
Immigrant - Permanent/Citizenship seeking
I'm an expat when living/working in China because Chinese law pretty much will never allow me to become a permanent citizen, IE an immigrant, even if I wanted to.
Using House Hunters as proof of anything is like using the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills as key evidence of white privilege.
Immigrants move to move up in the world. Expats go somewhere by choice.
It's basically an anglo exceptionalism/superiority thing. You're an expat because your home country is perfectly fine but you choose to be somewhere else. Immigrant is because your old country is shit and you don't want to go back.
It's basically an anglo exceptionalism/superiority thing. You're an expat because your home country is perfectly fine but you choose to be somewhere else. Immigrant is because your old country is shit and you don't want to go back.
I labelled my post as "my take" and referenced my own experiences in how the term was applied in these various immigrant communities. You challenged me by saying it was "simply untrue". I can only give you my experiences, I'm not a scholar or historian and I don't believe you are either. I manage a settlement an employment program in greater Vancouver - in my experience many immigrants don't call themselves "immigrants" once they have naturalized. They tend to see an immigrant as a non-citizen resident and use the terms immigrant and citizen as their legal applications only. They would instead refer to themselves as "citizens" or used it in past tense "I came as an immigrant", "I was an immigrant" etc.
It appears the only person using the word 'expatriate' as an exclusionary term is you. You don't believe the term is relevant when British citizens (presumably only the white ones) move to other Anglo speaking countries because that would not fit your theory. You appear to also be pretending that multicultural groups of American expats in Canada, or vice versa, don't exist. Australians in London, ... what about French citizens living in New Zealand who form expat groups etc. You seem want to pretend the term is only relevant or only "used extensively" when applied to white British retirees in foreign climes. You want to separate yourself from this term when you live abroad because you harbor prejudices about "expats" due to various stereotypes that you don't want to associate yourself with. You say you lived and traveled around the world (avoiding the term "expat") but think you're better than these "clusters" of British retirees who are in Spain simply by avoiding the use of terminology. Have you never formed connections with other British people on your travels around the world?
I do find it interesting that you try to diminish my "limited subset of experiences", telling me to "read a book" and say I'm relying on "the word of a single British Caribbean person" who introduced me to a group (ignoring the fact that that I also said its full of people of different ethnic backgrounds who associate with the "expat" group and terminology) - all while simultaneously referencing your own anecdotal experiences of "living" and "traveling extensively" while observing British retirees as an "expat" lower-class of person who are, according to you, mostly insular, rude, little-Englanders. You seem wrapped up in the idea that the term is some sort of an insult... Immigrants are good and Expats are bad, apparently all because of throwbacks to British colonialism. Seems all a bit hypocritical, don't you think? Most people understand that language evolves with its usage.
Huh? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about aid workers working in a foreign country, or what your mum being an immigrant has to do with any of it - perhaps you feel that shields you from certain criticisms? Noted that you used "was an immigrant" rather than "is an immigrant", did she return to her home country or ascend to a higher-class of being?
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