I still watch all of the MCU films, but I usually wait until they come out on Blu-ray. Even with moviepass I just don't want to risk sitting through another Age of Ultron or Thor 2.
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Why do people still think marvel movies are too similar and bland?
- Thread starter Thewonandonly
- Start date
For people asking about how Thor 2 the Dark World and Winter Soldier are similar I got ya.
I'm sure there's more but I thought this up in about a few minutes. Decide for yourselves if it's formulaic or not and if it is whether it affects your enjoyment of the movie. To be honest for me, Winter Soldier is my 2nd favorite all time Marvel movie right now (we'll see how I feel about Black Panther and if that changes it).
Edit: Oh yeah and I forgot both are the 2nd films for their respective Marvel Hero. I guess that ones obvious but I should still have it down.
- Both show our hero after the battle in New York from the first Avengers movie
- Both Heroes are shown starting to get used to the world they saved starting to slowly understand it's culture and norms but still not quite getting it
- Both Heroes are first shown in the first act beating up with east a bunch of nobody mooks. For Cap it's Batroc's guys and for Thor it's some Bandits in Hogun's realm.
- Both feature the antagonist as people who desire world domination and plan to use giant floating Weapons to help accomplish it. Hellicarriers for WS and Malekith's giant ship for TDW
- Both movies in the middle of the movie feature the main antagonists attacking and killing a respected and beloved person close to them. That's Nick Fury and Frigga
- Then at this point both movies show the Hero is left on their own without any support from people they consider leaders as they go around gathering what allies then can for a confrontation with the Villains of the movie
- A big giant Fight happens in the last act of both movies involving a giant floating Weapon that eventually crashes ruining the bad guy's plan
- And lastly someone during a moment of weakness the Heroes are put in a situation where they're rescued by an unlikely savior from their death. In Thor's case it's Loki and for Captain America it's the Winter soldier.
I'm sure there's more but I thought this up in about a few minutes. Decide for yourselves if it's formulaic or not and if it is whether it affects your enjoyment of the movie. To be honest for me, Winter Soldier is my 2nd favorite all time Marvel movie right now (we'll see how I feel about Black Panther and if that changes it).
Edit: Oh yeah and I forgot both are the 2nd films for their respective Marvel Hero. I guess that ones obvious but I should still have it down.
People really need to chill out with the "if you don't like marvel films you either a DC fanboy or an elitist snob!!!"
I'm no movie snob but the action sequences in these films really disappoint me. The potential for mind blowing sequences is limitless in movies about thunder gods and super human soldiers yet the execution is so poor. I loved the Cap/Bucky vs Iron Man fight in Civil War but that's about it tbh. Get The Raid or John Wick guys in there idk.
I'm no movie snob but the action sequences in these films really disappoint me. The potential for mind blowing sequences is limitless in movies about thunder gods and super human soldiers yet the execution is so poor. I loved the Cap/Bucky vs Iron Man fight in Civil War but that's about it tbh. Get The Raid or John Wick guys in there idk.
Doctor Strange aside, the MCU films have been getting progressively less like each other and what's come before, though always within a certain range of being broadly appealling audience pleasing fun.
So when people say these films are "all the same," (as a reason to dismiss them) it's a bit of a head scratcher but I take it to mean "these films just aren't for me."
For example, I don't think Waitit and Gunn have the same sense of humor; Waititi has far more improv and is generally kinder in spirit, whereas Gunn's is harsher, perhaps more bitter. Compare What We Do In The Shadows to Slither and I think tonal difference carries over to Ragnarok vs GotG 2. But someone who doesn't sci-fi comedies won't like either and may think they are the same thing even if it's night/day to me. (Or at least Night/dusk, hah)
People complained that every movie ended with heroes punching their way to victory in order to save the world. We get Civil War, Doc Strange, Homecoming and Ragnarok all playing with shifting away from that ending in different ways.
But some are just tired of the series, or tired of hearing about them all the time now that the hype cycle is hitting 3 films a year, and "too similar" is an easy shorthand for "i'm tired of this."
So when people say these films are "all the same," (as a reason to dismiss them) it's a bit of a head scratcher but I take it to mean "these films just aren't for me."
For example, I don't think Waitit and Gunn have the same sense of humor; Waititi has far more improv and is generally kinder in spirit, whereas Gunn's is harsher, perhaps more bitter. Compare What We Do In The Shadows to Slither and I think tonal difference carries over to Ragnarok vs GotG 2. But someone who doesn't sci-fi comedies won't like either and may think they are the same thing even if it's night/day to me. (Or at least Night/dusk, hah)
People complained that every movie ended with heroes punching their way to victory in order to save the world. We get Civil War, Doc Strange, Homecoming and Ragnarok all playing with shifting away from that ending in different ways.
Zemo wins and the final battle is personal grudges being worked out in a small room rather than a huge spectacle, Doc Strange outsmarts a god, Peter saves Vulture's life, Thor decides it is better to "lose"
But some are just tired of the series, or tired of hearing about them all the time now that the hype cycle is hitting 3 films a year, and "too similar" is an easy shorthand for "i'm tired of this."
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They're extremely similar structurally. Tones and visuals can vary but most structures are very similar.
Look at Dr. Strange and Iron Man 1. They're very similar in terms of structure.
Accident which sort of create the power or super powers. An associate of the parental figure went rogue.
It's easy to see some similarities across those movies.
Oh not at all. Again just because I'm able to recognize the flaws doesn't mean I don't enjoy the movie or have a good time with it. I don't think, in fact, there's a single Marvel Movie I hated. I'm pretty sure I enjoyed all of them to some degree and look back with some degree of fondness.
This is me, too.
When you look outside the MCU, even at movies that aren't as good, you can get a sense of some of the variety that they could have. Man of Steel has problems, but it was ambitious. MCU movies are not ambitious on the whole, except in the long-form continuity.
That said, they have been breaking out of the formula somewhat. My issue is less with the plots (which are getting more varied) than with the characters, who are mostly upstart contrarians.
I should make that more clear, I mean when it's used in the context of "The MCU sucks, they're all the same." I can see clear parallels and patterns too, I just think the ways in which the films are different outweigh those patterns.
Most movies bar a few exceptions have the same tone, similar storylines and developments, the same kind of character humor, the same kind of dialogues, the same kind of CGI-fest exaggerated action scenes... very few Marvel movies (I've seen most of them) managed to surprise me in this sense. I mean, Batman Vs Superman was a mess but at least it tried doing something different. I'm sure the latest Black Panther movie is different enough and all (have not seen it yet) but it doesn't change the fact that in terms of general storytelling and atmosphere, basically all Iron Man, Captain America, Avengers, etc. movies are interchangeable. I'm not necessarily against repetition: hell, I'm a Saw fan, that saga built 8 movies on the first one's flawed twist. But maybe we should stop acting as if all Marvel movies are transcendental experiences and accept them for what they are: popcorn action flicks where one-liners and CGI booms are more important than storytelling.
Who is acting like they are transcendental experiences?
They are solidly crafted blockbusters that care primarily about the audience having a good time, first, and second on developing a collection of characters compelling enough to follow through the arc of 20 films. The villains and the plots are tertiary. If people have a good time, they'll keep watching.
You miss the mark by saying "popcorn action flicks where one-liners and CGI booms are more important than storytelling;" this describes the Transformers films, which are about spectacle above all.
Every hero is distinct but I guess it started to feel like Call of Duty to me. It just got to the point where they kept coming. The Last film I saw was The Avengers.
To be honest in the past few years I've only watch a handful of movies in total and superhero movies are crap fand feels all the same. Nothing special.
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My thoughts basically.
Personally it's because I don't feel like any of the movies really stick with me. They might vary somewhat in tone, structure, etc. but they all end up basically being a fun morning/afternoon/evening and nothing more. Of all the other genres they mix in (thriller, sci-fi, etc.) there are much better films of those types outside of superhero fare. Even in the element of something like heroism I've found much better examples in non-MCU fare like Spider-Man 2, Wonder Woman, and even Logan.
I also think that taking part in a shard universe kind of muddies things a bit. It's hard to explain but the MCU has kind of set a "tone" for itself and I end up viewing each movie through that lens. I really hope Black Panther breaks that barrier though given it's reviews. And if that doesn't inspire me past the day I see it I'm fucking done with taking film critics seriously when it comes to CBM fare.
I also think that taking part in a shard universe kind of muddies things a bit. It's hard to explain but the MCU has kind of set a "tone" for itself and I end up viewing each movie through that lens. I really hope Black Panther breaks that barrier though given it's reviews. And if that doesn't inspire me past the day I see it I'm fucking done with taking film critics seriously when it comes to CBM fare.
A lot of these are familiar tropes in adventure films that you'll see forever listed in TV tropes, but it doesn't make those two films very similar overall in terms of setting and the different individual character story of Thor and Cap.
I'm starting to feel all these superhero movies are getting too samey, personally. I keep giving them chances, but I keep getting disappointed. They are losing me.
Now, I'm excited to see Black Panther. This seems like it is hitting all the right notes. We will see. But the marvel movies in general, the DC movies, the comicbook hero tv series, I'm just getting tired of it all. For the most part they are just not what I want in movies any more.
Now, I'm excited to see Black Panther. This seems like it is hitting all the right notes. We will see. But the marvel movies in general, the DC movies, the comicbook hero tv series, I'm just getting tired of it all. For the most part they are just not what I want in movies any more.
Movies are all just multicolored light projected on a screen depicting moving images while simultaneously sound waves are emitting from speakers on the wall. When will people get tired of the same old thing!?! Wake Up Sheeple!
It seems it's super cool on the internet to hate on popular movies or shows. People think it's cool to have different opinions just to be different. It's cool to love the indie scene and hate on blockbusters. Sure some are garbage and deserve criticism but people rush to watch the next MCU film for simple reasons. They're fun.
Well they're all supposed to be connected to the same universe. Being samey is part of the mcu's success while still feeling very different. Ironmans stories are not the same as gotg, thor, captain America etc. at all but still feel part of the same universe.
Yeah, I really only see this problem on forums. I agree that Iron Man 2 and Thor 2 are the weakest while the rest are good to great. Confuses me when I see AoU described as awful or terrible or even Dr Strange which was reviewed well and was a 90% on RT last time I checked. Idk, people like the movies when they come out and then weeks later it was boring and formulaic.
Me either tbh. I hear about MCU villain problem like the Fox films and DC have had fantastic villains. It's either Magneto going from bad to good or good to bad with Fox or the god awful villains from the DC films. Zod was decent but Joker, Enchantress, Ares, Doomsday, Lex and Steppenwolf were all terrible. Freaking Darren Cross is better than all of them.
Well, it is what it is. If you think those shared elements aren't worthy of consideration then that's just something I don't necessarily agree with you on. They are too specific for me to ignore. Honestly, if something shares a lot of tropes then I think it completely meets the definition of "samey". Shared elements like that are of course going to be regarded as formulaic. Denying that is like saying to me Friday the 13th isn't someone copying the formula from Halloween.
It's a super lazy and superficial hot take. Part of the MCU's appeal is that every individual movie has a differing feel depending on the hero/heroes. Something like Dr. Strange is nowhere near the same as Ant-Man or Guardians or Thor.
They all have humorous moments so maybe that's what gets people upset? That they're not the super serious thing they're looking for in a film? Otherwise, it's a dumb criticism.
They all have humorous moments so maybe that's what gets people upset? That they're not the super serious thing they're looking for in a film? Otherwise, it's a dumb criticism.
It's not really about being part of the same universe--it's about similar themes, visuals, story arcs, writing styles, etc. Now, this is a lot being put under the same umbrella, and I'm open for some comicbook style shows that do something different. But I'm just getting tired of superhero stories in general. They are fun popcorn flicks with people but mostly forgettable. And they do feel formulaic.
People that like these will have a different opinion. Formula doesn't necessarily mean bad if you like it. But it gets tiring when it's not your cup of tea outside of a few here and there that are personally compelling.
Because people on the internet/era like to complain. Phase 3 MCU has been great.
They kind of have a house style. Like modern comic books do. It's not a bad thing—I think consistency is good, but it would be nice to see something radically different.
Fox was killing it, before they got bought out. Deadpool, Logan, Legion, presumably New Mutants... they were experimenting like crazy.
Fox was killing it, before they got bought out. Deadpool, Logan, Legion, presumably New Mutants... they were experimenting like crazy.
Homecoming was trash and failed as a coming of age movie since it was about Peter running away from parties with his friends to hunt bad guys/muh Stark intership. Doesn't even has a fraction of the themes the first movie had, he even has a stupid AI suit that carries him. Felt like Iron Man Jr or some shit
GOTG2 was definitely worse than the first, 95% of the plot felt like some anime filler arc. Of course they fit the most cheesy one liners and meme-worthy moments in that one because that's why MCU movies are successful in the first place. However constantly trying to rehash Avengers 1 simply gets old at this point. What was a cool space adventure went way too far on the comedy spectrum. Screw having actually inspired plots, just have a simple one with the most excuses so these funny characters that know each other have funny moments. That's essentially the pattern of every MCU movie, try to recreate Avengers 1. Even the "different" ones like Dr Strange are very uninspired implementations of Hero's Journey tropes
Haven't seen Thor
GOTG2 was definitely worse than the first, 95% of the plot felt like some anime filler arc. Of course they fit the most cheesy one liners and meme-worthy moments in that one because that's why MCU movies are successful in the first place. However constantly trying to rehash Avengers 1 simply gets old at this point. What was a cool space adventure went way too far on the comedy spectrum. Screw having actually inspired plots, just have a simple one with the most excuses so these funny characters that know each other have funny moments. That's essentially the pattern of every MCU movie, try to recreate Avengers 1. Even the "different" ones like Dr Strange are very uninspired implementations of Hero's Journey tropes
Haven't seen Thor
Black Panther will be one of the only recent MCU films that I'll be seeing in a theatre, and it has nothing to do with the fact that it's an MCU film. It's an important blockbuster that absolutely deserves to be supported by everyone who loves going to the cinema and cares about the diverse landscape that movies can and should provide.
Having said that, the Marvel studio machine has me weary and tired of a product that is essentially made to sell you on the next 5-10 movies. That whole roadmap they set out with tells me they don't care about creating a heart and soul for each and every movie they put out. They just need their shit to connect and stay consistent.
Look, these movies are fun, without question. When I pay my money to sit in that theatre seat I am guaranteed something that won't insult my intelligence like a Transformers or some such garbage. They're a safe bet, and that's fine. But none, and I mean not a single one, of these films have managed to leave an indelible impression on me the way certain other films in the genre have.
I just feel like the genre is capable of so much more than recreating a panel from a comic book or getting you hyped to see Iron Man fight alongside Dr. Strange. That shit is so vapid and contrived and does nothing for me.
When I see a movie, I want to see something that's interested in examining the pathos of a character. Something that provides a deeper examination of the human condition. And YES, a movie can do that and still be fun. See Spider-man 1 & 2 or Days of Future Past or Logan for examples.
The Marvel films offer nothing outside of shallow, flashy fun. And that's okay, because they are always going to be a good time.
Having said that, the Marvel studio machine has me weary and tired of a product that is essentially made to sell you on the next 5-10 movies. That whole roadmap they set out with tells me they don't care about creating a heart and soul for each and every movie they put out. They just need their shit to connect and stay consistent.
Look, these movies are fun, without question. When I pay my money to sit in that theatre seat I am guaranteed something that won't insult my intelligence like a Transformers or some such garbage. They're a safe bet, and that's fine. But none, and I mean not a single one, of these films have managed to leave an indelible impression on me the way certain other films in the genre have.
I just feel like the genre is capable of so much more than recreating a panel from a comic book or getting you hyped to see Iron Man fight alongside Dr. Strange. That shit is so vapid and contrived and does nothing for me.
When I see a movie, I want to see something that's interested in examining the pathos of a character. Something that provides a deeper examination of the human condition. And YES, a movie can do that and still be fun. See Spider-man 1 & 2 or Days of Future Past or Logan for examples.
The Marvel films offer nothing outside of shallow, flashy fun. And that's okay, because they are always going to be a good time.
I think comparing Halloween to Nightmare of Elm Street might be better. There could be lots of similar tropes but overall they're very different.
I went with Friday the 13th because Sean Cunningham basically admitted that he ripped off Halloween.
People can try to hate on Marvel and their product all they want.
I will just continue to enjoy the hell out of them and bask in their success. That goes for Agents of Shield, Netflix and the Big Screen.
Though I will admit Defenders was meh and Iron Fist was laughably bad.
I will just continue to enjoy the hell out of them and bask in their success. That goes for Agents of Shield, Netflix and the Big Screen.
Though I will admit Defenders was meh and Iron Fist was laughably bad.
I like Logan, Deadpool, Nolan Batman, and even Watchmen. Then I look at the MCU/DCU films and I feel nothing.
It's like I'm watching a theme park production preoccupied with jamming the maximum number of characters I love into a limited running time all while winking at the audience and ribbing one another.
It's like I'm watching a theme park production preoccupied with jamming the maximum number of characters I love into a limited running time all while winking at the audience and ribbing one another.
With so much complaining on an Internet msg board about bland, boring MCU movies and super hero fatigue, this can only mean one thing: Another year of breaking Box Office records!
That's precisely it, actually. It's a crossover machine. Pure and simple. They aren't really interested in telling focused, character-driven stories and that's fine. Crossovers can be fun.
They just won't matter on an individual level 20-30 years from now.
Also this.
They just won't matter on an individual level 20-30 years from now.
Also this.
They have no memorable dialog. No memorable villains bar Loki. And no memorable music which is probably the biggest offender.
https://youtu.be/7vfqkvwW2fs
https://youtu.be/7vfqkvwW2fs
Honestly, Homecoming was a little bland to me. Still enjoyed it but it's not a movie I'd rewatch. Same with Ant-Man, all three Iron Man movies, Age of Ultron, and Cap 1.
My favorite MCU movies have been GOTG 1 and 2, Thor Ragnarok, and Winter Soldier. Those all had a distinct tone that helped them stand apart from the others.
My favorite MCU movies have been GOTG 1 and 2, Thor Ragnarok, and Winter Soldier. Those all had a distinct tone that helped them stand apart from the others.
I think people who really like superhero movies can get into a bubble. To the outside world watching the movies for what they are (and not the deep lore), they are often just not very good from a story or writing point of view. Which is fine if you accept that they are just mindless summer action movies. But when people say they are the best of all time it seems hyperbolic.
I bowed out at Guardians 1. I just find them all incredibly dull. Like a meal at applebee's, not offensive, but profoundly uninteresting.
I realized I was always fidgeting in my seat, waiting for what I knew was coming, and really bored with the journey there.
If you like them more power too you, doesn't bother me.
I realized I was always fidgeting in my seat, waiting for what I knew was coming, and really bored with the journey there.
If you like them more power too you, doesn't bother me.
The majority are focus tested cookie cutter milquetoast US mass commodified culture produced in a factory. They don't have anything to say really and they will never ever do something that goes out of the target demographics comfort zone. It's made to be digested by the average US movie goer and forgotten as soon as the credits roll.
Black Panther is the only one that is remotely interesting, and that has little to do with Disney, but more to do with the talented people involved.
But besides that, it's just factory films.
Black Panther is the only one that is remotely interesting, and that has little to do with Disney, but more to do with the talented people involved.
But besides that, it's just factory films.
It's so dense. Every single image has so many things going on.
Marvel films are consistently good, but I think the vast majority of them tend to be very similar tonally. The main exceptions for me being Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy, probably.
For comparison, Logan is a film that was a dark, gritty western. Days of Future past had some PG-13 body horror stuff at the start of the film. Deadpool is an irreverent meta-commentary on superhero films. Punisher: War Zone was an unabashed shooter.
While Thor Ragnarok was "80s jokes: the movie," it still felt like it had tons in common tonally with Avengers, which came out 5 years ago. Ant-Man had the potential to really be something different in that regard, but Wright parted the project and the film ended up having some very inspired action bits, but very TV movie-grade direction and humor during the rest of the film. I don't fault Peyton Reed for this, given how little time he had to work on the film, but still - here we are.
Marvel probably unfairly gets seen as same-y to some degree, but I think what people are responding to is the manifestation of a saga that is so carefully curated and has to have at least some tonal consistency due to their shared world. The good side of this is that no film ends up being truly awful for the most part, but the downside is that you'll probably never see a Marvel film that leans hardcore into horror, or has a plot that doesn't involve earth-shattering stakes for the most part.
For comparison, Logan is a film that was a dark, gritty western. Days of Future past had some PG-13 body horror stuff at the start of the film. Deadpool is an irreverent meta-commentary on superhero films. Punisher: War Zone was an unabashed shooter.
While Thor Ragnarok was "80s jokes: the movie," it still felt like it had tons in common tonally with Avengers, which came out 5 years ago. Ant-Man had the potential to really be something different in that regard, but Wright parted the project and the film ended up having some very inspired action bits, but very TV movie-grade direction and humor during the rest of the film. I don't fault Peyton Reed for this, given how little time he had to work on the film, but still - here we are.
Marvel probably unfairly gets seen as same-y to some degree, but I think what people are responding to is the manifestation of a saga that is so carefully curated and has to have at least some tonal consistency due to their shared world. The good side of this is that no film ends up being truly awful for the most part, but the downside is that you'll probably never see a Marvel film that leans hardcore into horror, or has a plot that doesn't involve earth-shattering stakes for the most part.
I mean, I generally like the movies but they're usually pretty safe and formulaic. There's only so much you can do within the mold of "heroes and villains."