Haha I LITERALLY just thought this and was about to scroll down to type it out.
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Why do people treat every new Nintendo IP a sales failure even when they are objectively not?
- Thread starter Xaszatm
- Start date
not every successful online game is going to get updates in perpetuity. i don't understand that argument. nor is every online game going to get people hooked for years and years.
it's your criteria for a game's success, if people are still playing it almost two years after release. it has no basis in reality. btw guess what? people are still playing arms.
not gonna address the smash stuff cuz everyone know's the reason.
1. It received more updates THAN THEY PLANNED. This indicates it was more successful than they thought it would be.
2. We know characters from games like ARMs and Xenoblade didn't get in Smash Ultimate due to timing. Even so, they still managed to put in Spring Man as an Assist Trophy.
3. Smash is not an indication of anything. It's the biggest fighting game, that doesn't mean fighters in general on Switch are "huge".
4. You keep saying nobody is playing ARMS. Where is your proof of this?
OP
OP
Jesus fuck.
1. You have yet to demonstrate people have 'moved on'
2. It got more updates than they had originally intended to give it and it still runs events.
3. Sakurai literally said the only reason it doesn't is because it started development after Smash Ultimate had completed its design document.
4. Smash sells better than every other fighting game on every platform combined. This is a rock fucking stupid metric.
5. Stop arguing in bad faith.
My favorite part is when you try to use the same logic they're using that they come up with to discredit Nintendo's output on, say, Sony, folks clam up real fast. Can't exactly claim that a game using a third-party dev doesn't count for Nintendo when there are games out there like Spider-Man that would also not count with the same tenuous logic.
oh boy that's opening a whole another bag of crap. we have people celebrating games that did less than mario tennis aces on 3x the userbase as huge successes, games that had 10x the dev budget and marketing budget. it's best not to get into that.
The ultimate point is that if a first party company pay for the entirety of a game's existence, it's a first party game full stop. Doesn't matter if it's made by a developer that just opened up their doors yesterday, it doesn't matter if it's a developer that's owned by a first party but not in the same building as the rest of the internal devs, it doesn't matter if it's an IP that the first party doesn't own and it sure as hell doesn't matter if it's not a AAA game. People wanting to argue otherwise are not interested in arguing in good faith, plain and simple.
If it didn't hook people why would they make another one?
1. so because it got updated then it means that it's successful now? The game is two years old not 5 or 10.
2. it would make sense to make it a dlc then, but I doubt they will.
3. if the biggest fighting game is on the switch, then it means that the platform is a good place to put fighting games like mk11.
4. ranked takes ages to find players.
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of course, you're 100% right. i'm just saying the double standards don't end there, and the same people who look at something like arms as a failure would look at another exclusive on their favorite system as a big success, when it might have sold around the same numbers, most of it at discounted prices.
because they want to hook people again with a new entry in an IP that debuted at 2+ million copies, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.
no it's successful because it sold well, period.
not if it's a game on a new platform, and you can never make as much money with dlc as you can with a new game
but that doesn't mean every fighting game on the platform should look at smash for how much it can/should do. 98% of games out there on any platform and any genre will never do as well as smash.
so? people are still playing other modes.
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Why would a studio spend dev time developing more content than originally planned for a game that isn't successful? FREE content at that. Do they like throwing away money?
No, not at all. Smash and traditional FGs like Mortal Kombat are nothing alike.
That's like saying if people like Forza Motorsport, then they must also like Sonic Racing. Worse actually.
If your response to anything is "Because people hate Nintendo", you might have a bit of a persecution complex.
Free DLC brings attention to the game which means more people buy it.
That works within a studio's pre-allocated roadmap. I'm talking about free DLC beyond what was originally planned.
You only do that when the game has been a success.
By this logic, games like DOOM 2016 and Dark Souls 3 weren't successes, since they stopped releasing content after their original roadmaps finished.
EDIT: My apologies, I misunderstood you and thought you were arguing ARMS wasn't a success. Didn't realize they were still making content updates.
ARMS is quite well represented in Smash outside the roster. There are a couple of ARMS spirits and an ARMS assist trophy.
You're somehow not understanding.
Just because they don't continue with updates/content, doesn't mean it wasn't a success. Nobody said that.
I said, a developer is not going to spend time and resources on making more previously unplanned content - especially free content - if the game was not a success.
Successful game = you finish your roadmap, or you finish and add more.
Unsuccessful game = you finish your roadmap and that's it.
And also for fuck sake ARMS can be enjoyed localy rather than online , and well FIghting Games fans when they DO have bars dedicated to them having tiny tournaments they would rather play localy then deal with potential lag ...
And well dunno anywhere else but over here bars like Arkedo / Meltdown / Misashi Bar / Fight Stick Den etc you see a truck load of ARMS players playing each other every afternoon / night ...
gotta love this generation of players who think that a game is "dead" just because nobody plays online ... as if local play wasn't a thing anymore ...
of course they are, but calling something like arms a failure at the same time would be hypocrisy
When we're talking of console games. I never looked to count Nintendo HH output in the Snes or N64 days. Their In-House teams made more than AAA In-House games and new IP, one didn't need to reach to handheld market to make up the numbers.
I mean really Labo a AAA In-House game? same for kiki trick? tomodachi was on the 3DS, Xenoblade isn't a new IP.
How about you make a list of AAA brand new IP made In-House by Nintendo for the Switch?
oh so it has to be in-house, then it has to be not on a handheld, then it has to be "AAA"?
nintendo makes a LOT of new IPs, period. you making up arbitrary criteria for why the new IPs they create don't count doesn't change reality. they most likely create more new IPs than any other company out there.
since the very beginning, handheld has been a huge part of nintendo's business. it's where they've gotten a lot of their income from, and where a lot of their teams make games for. most nintendo fans would list many handheld games in their list of favorite nintendo games. you want to exclude handheld for no reason, doesn't mean other people should as well.
yeah, like by the definition of western game development when it comes to budget and team size, very few (or none at all) nintendo game can be considered AAA. i think mario odyssey and botw can come close to that definition, but not much more.
"when nintendo only had one hardware in the market that was not a handheld, they didn't make handheld games"
well I'm impressed
guess patapon and soul sacrifice were not new sony IP either, since it was for the PSP/Vita and not AAA
clearly the definition of "new" when applied to videogame software has pretty specific restrictions
If one was talking console IP then yes, I never included the likes of Age of Empires has XBox IP in the OG Xbox days even if made In-House by MS. And by the same token as PS Vita owner, never included all the SONY In-House PS4 IP's to try and make up for SONY poor support for the system
A shame the whole discussion is about Nintendo, and not only the Nintendo consoles you want, then.
Show me any evidence that arms underperformed?
There was a weird narrative on this site and online that it underperformed because splatoon did better when the comparison made zero sense. Completely different genre and completely different scopes in terms of content and budget.
Well, consoles and handhelds are different. But even on the Switch, the brand new AAA In-House IP is low, we're at one at the moment.
Regarding ARMS, It's worth remembering that at one point it had sold more than Street Fighter V, despite Capcom's game being on sale for more than 2 years longer.
It was a success, just not by Nintendo standards.
It was a success, just not by Nintendo standards.
There are multiple IPs from Nintendo that sell much less than ARMS and still have new games.
It was a success for Nintendo.
what are nintendo's standards? not every nintendo game is published with the goal of hitting 15+ millions, that's an unrealistic goal for any publisher. all publishers put out games with different sales goals.
These are all correct
Yes it is? Debuted in 2009. The Xeno- prefix is just a nod to Monolith soft's previous works, and the original title didn't even have that in it. Just ask Bamco and Square if Nintendo owns Xenosaga and Xenogears and see what they tell you.
For Switch 2, yes.
I also do not expect Mario Kart 9 in Switch and it's not as if the 8 was a failure.
Ok but how many AAA-games does Nintendo have with a Battle Royale mode, a main character that has at least 5 but no more than 7 limbs, a story that conforms to the Raleigh Becket test and was released during a full moon?
None? Thought so.
None? Thought so.
.Over a decade ago. Think like that Forza Horizon is a brand new IP
Released in Japan June 10, 2010. So newer than I thought. Try again, those goal posts haven't been moved far enough yet.
I am not sure you have played Xenoanything if you think there's more to them that connects them aside from a prefix. This would be akin to claiming that the Mana series is a Final Fantasy spinoff because Seiken Densetsu was released as Final Fantasy Adventure in the west.
I guess being sarcastic is beyond you. Either way, Forza Horizon is a newer IP than Xenosaga and last time I checked MS own the Horizon IP and also the developer too