Why do so many liberals ability to care stop at trans people?

Cream · Mar 24, 2018

Been noticing, at least on Resetera, that the discourse surrounding trans issues takes on a very different attitude that a few other issues. The fury that people here are ability to get up and arms about, in regards to things like climate change, gun control, even to a lesser extent the unfair treatment of black people, which has its own set of issues on the left, is not at all shared with trans people.

I've noticed total apathy, or even worse, so many people trying as hard as they can to downplay the issues that befall them. People ignoring statistics and information even after they ask for it, blatantly disregarding the opinions and perspectives of actual trans people on here, making excuses for bigoted hurtful jokes, handwaving transphobia from celebrities.

The thread about a trans woman being forced to strip by the police didn't even make it to two pages. Even in the new thread about Trump trying to ban them from the military again, it feels like people barely care, and are just shaking it off, focusing on how stupid trump is, instead of feeling like they are actually angry and scared for their trans peers. Almost like "pfft yeah go ahead and try Trump!"

Even the mods keep passing out these meaningless few day bans to people that blatantly defend transphobia.

Why is it so difficult for so many liberals to care about trans people when the data overwhelmingly shows that they are incredibly marginalized and their community needs a lot of help and consideration?

Mod Edit:

To be clear, no moderation decisions on trans issues are made without consulting trans members on staff. Most of those decisions are actually made by trans members on staff. We have had many conversations with members on these topics and yes, our inboxes remain open. Please also do not drag mod grievances into this topic or it will have to be closed.

EvoTech · Mar 24, 2018

Uh, to me it seems like trans awareness is very high here on Era.

The latest topic about Trump yet again banning trans from the military got a lot of responses.

Grimminski · Mar 24, 2018

Because your average liberal is apathetic as fuck.

IfSleepoversCouldTalk · Mar 24, 2018

Fucking thank you for finally saying what I haven't

Cream · Mar 24, 2018

EvoTech said:
Uh, to me it seems like trans awareness is very high here on Era.

The latest topic about Trump yet again banning trans from the military got a lot of responses.

And a lot of those posts reeked of apathy.

Prodigal Son · Mar 24, 2018

people on resetera.com are, for the most part, very supportive of trans issues

Cream · Mar 24, 2018

Prodigal Son said:
people on resetera.com are, for the most part, very supportive of trans issues

Legitimately could have fooled me with the way trans discussion goes here.

Do you have any comments on my observations as a trans person myself?

shnurgleton · Mar 24, 2018

People haven't been able to understand the sex != gender thing on either side of the political spectrum yet

And it kinda sucks to rake liberals over the coals on this when they're far ahead of others on this issue even if they aren't fully there yet

NervousXtian · Mar 24, 2018

Because it's a completely foreign concept to people, they don't understand it. I think it's easier for most people to understand those other issues you bring up, as it's easy to put yourself in those peoples shoes.. but people have a hard time getting their minds around gender dysphoria.

I mean, that's not defending it. Just people have to understand it before they can feel the need that it's an issue worth fighting for.

I wouldn't doubt at all that many on the left feel that gender dysphoria is a mental disease and should be treated as such. That's where were at with it.. but if you look where we were 10 or 20 years ago, a lot of progress has been made. We're just no where near I'd say even close to a majority of people for transgender rights.

Dude Abides · Mar 24, 2018

Threads get long because people are arguing. The two threads you're complaining about are short because everyone agrees the cops who made that woman strip and Trump's ban are shitty. The rest of your OP is complaining about how things "feel" to you which is subjective and a weird whine about moderation that you should probably direct at the people who actually do the moderation

Phobophile · Mar 24, 2018

I feel like a lot of it has to do with the concept being still rather new to mainstream society (and contemporary Western liberalism being moderate at best).

CoolestSpot · Mar 24, 2018

It's easy to disregard issues you don't understand or effect yourself.

Hell, even I don't fully understand it in every detail, but as others say the gender/sex thing makes people's head spin so they just give up.

'3y Kingdom · Mar 24, 2018

Cream said:
Why is it so difficult for so many liberals to care about trans people when the data overwhelmingly shows that they are incredibly marginalized and their community needs a lot of help and consideration?

Unfortunately, I think that this may be a major reason. Trans issues may seem more abstract than other concerns commonly espoused by the left (both here and in general).

Dyle · Mar 24, 2018

In regards to the Trump military ban thread, I think the anger/frustration is implied, given that we've gone through this before.

But in general, it's because they're transphobic. 15 years ago liberals were often homophobic, 30 years ago they were often racist. Some liberals today are still transphobic, homophobic, and racist. People often hold contradictory, hypocritical views because the ways that those perspectives are formed are different and inform their behavior in different ways. Or at the very least it's a symptom of the inability of some people to feel empathy for others, which we as a species struggle with in the modern era on the whole. I don't think transphobia is an overwhelmingly common element of prejudice among the left, every prejudice exists and rears its ugly head in certain circles. Also many people are still completely uniformed about what it even means to be trans

Prodigal Son · Mar 24, 2018

Cream said:
Legitimately could have fooled me with the way trans discussion goes here.

Do you have any comments on my observations as a trans person myself?

Not really, no.

Cream · Mar 24, 2018

Dude Abides said:
Threads get long because people are arguing. The two threads you're complaining about are short because everyone agrees the cops who made that woman strip and Trump's ban are shitty. The rest of your OP is complaining about how things "feel" to you which is subjective and a weird whine about moderation that you should probably direct at the people who actually do the moderation

And what about all the people constantly defending transphobic humor?

Also I'd like to think as a trans person who is on Era a lot, but subjective view on this issue would have at least a little weight.

IfSleepoversCouldTalk · Mar 24, 2018

Cis PoC gets abused by police? Era rightly is up in arms. Trans PoC abused by police? Who gives a shit.

Bold One · Mar 24, 2018

Dude Abides said:
Threads get long because people are arguing. The two threads you're complaining about are short because everyone agrees the cops who made that woman strip and Trump's ban are shitty. The rest of your OP is complaining about how things "feel" to you which is subjective and a weird whine about moderation that you should probably direct at the people who actually do the moderation

open and shut.

Cream · Mar 24, 2018

Bold One said:
open and shut.

You really aren't helping your case.

Platy · Mar 24, 2018

Cream said:
Legitimately could have fooled me with the way trans discussion goes here.

I think Prodigal was trying to say that COMPARED TO THE PEOPLE ON OTHER BIG GAME FORUMS, Resetera is very supportive of trans people

Deleted member 3815 · Mar 24, 2018

Cream said:
The thread about a trans woman being forced to strip by the police didn't even make it to two pages. Even in the new thread about Trump trying to ban them from the military again, it feels like people barely care, and are just shaking it off, focusing on how stupid trump is, instead of feeling like they are actually angry and scared for their trans peers. Almost like "pfft yeah go ahead and try Trump!"

A 100 pages thread doesn't necessary mean that it's filled with people posting their support towards trans folk than compare to a single page thread that is filled with people posting their support.

WallSniper · Mar 24, 2018

Era and the old place are extremely sensitive to trans issues compared to 95% of the internet. A rare thread or two might slip through, but by and large it's an excellent community for trans issues.

Cream · Mar 24, 2018

WallSniper said:
Era and the old place are extremely sensitive to trans issues compared to 95% of the internet. A rare thread or two might slip through, but by and large it's an excellent community for trans issues.

Almost every trans poster I talk to disagrees.

Opto · Mar 24, 2018

I think that in the case of Trump announcing the ban, again, and it was soundly defeated and never actually executed made people take it with less outrage because of its ineffectiveness.

Not that there isn't some shitty stuff people say here, especially in "would you date someone who is trans?" threads.

Wulfric · Mar 24, 2018

I think it's because it's still a foreign concept to a lot of people. I am a gay man and hesitate to participate in these discussions because I feel that even I simply don't know enough.

I suspect that many cisgender people who don't know any transgender people do not feel the need to actively educate themselves outside of what is discussed in the news. You can consider that a bad thing, but it's not being purposefully malicious either.

Deleted member 3968 · Mar 24, 2018

Moderation def lacks the teeth of the old forum though that seems to be by design at this point. Which is admittedly a tad confusing, given some of the current mods were the ones fighting for various marginalized groups at the old forum, but I assume they don't actually get to dictate policy here.

As for trans issue themselves it's the usual mix of fear/hate, and ppl not knowing about sex/gender differences in general. People also tend to only empathize with groups of people they know well, or are a member of.

This forum also has a tendency to be contrarian or for ppl to feel the need to play devil's advocate for some reason, no matter the topic.

Deleted member 15326 · Mar 24, 2018

A lot of self proclaimed liberals/progressives/whatever think as long as you aren't actively antagonist you're doing enough. Aside from that apathy there's also a general lack of interest from people that don't have any personal relationships with trans people.

The assertions that the board is generally good on trans issues is only really true comparatively and with consideration that most posters understand outright bigotry is not tolerated

Antrax · Mar 24, 2018

Dude Abides said:
Threads get long because people are arguing. The two threads you're complaining about are short because everyone agrees the cops who made that woman strip and Trump's ban are shitty.

Yeah, this. Threads about police brutality in general only get long when people get into "they were no angel" and then you get an actual argument. Otherwise you get rightful condemnation and that's all there is to say. I think you'd need an example of a thread about some injustice that went long without being padded by idiots saying that it's not actually an injustice.

blame space · Mar 24, 2018

why single out "liberals"?

it definitely seems to be something more cared about by "liberals", than, uh, other people.

dusteatingbug · Mar 24, 2018

Sadly these battles seem to need fighting all over again for every marginalized group. Society will, after a long time, become accepting of a given minority. But that doesn't mean they're no longer capable of or disposed towards prejudice. So there are a lot of people who would never say something homophobic or racist, but would still say something transphobic, because they're still bigots at the end of the day.

I guess what I'm saying is the reason so many liberals' ability to care stops at trans people is because so many liberals are transphobic. As a group they're less so than conservatives, but that's not the same thing at all.

In another ten years, most of those transphobic liberals will no longer be openly transphobic. But for right now, well, a lot of people of every political persuasion are shitheads.

Deleted member 835 · Mar 24, 2018

WallSniper said:
Era and the old place are extremely sensitive to trans issues compared to 95% of the internet. A rare thread or two might slip through, but by and large it's an excellent community for trans issues.

It's a decent community for trans people but I wouldn't say excellent. Trans people are still not treated that well here sadly

loquaciousJenny · Mar 24, 2018

People at large don't believe in trans issues, they read in highschool that boys have a Y chromosome and girls have two XX's and decided they were biologists now. At best we get a lot of people who don't care but still contest "government funding of cosmetic changes" because they don't want their tax payer money going to helping people.

Deleted member 10551 · Mar 24, 2018

I've noticed with older liberals there's a lot of legitimate ignorance on the subject. Not malice, they just don't understand the concept and get bad ideas based on that.

Ignorance can lead to some hurtful things, I know this because I remember being truly ignorant and doing some bad things in retrospect without knowing.

Cream · Mar 24, 2018

blame space said:
why single out "liberals"?

it definitely seems to be something more cared about by "liberals", than, uh, other people.

Mostly speaking about people who are self proclaimed liberals yet consistently drop the ball when it comes to trans people.

Village · Mar 24, 2018

I can't speak for all liberals, but Immagine that the concept is just weird to them. It doesn't excuse it, it just foreign.

I've also seen a li female liberals who aren't fond of trans people, particularly MTF Transwomen because they see them as some sort of affront

Opto · Mar 24, 2018

blame space said:
why single out "liberals"?

it definitely seems to be something more cared about by "liberals", than, uh, other people.

I think it's more important to hold liberal people to better standards since they should be on the better side when it comes to trans issues, and they're more likey too. Easier to convert them into standing up when they're on the fence rather than the people so far right of the fence they can't even see it.

Bold One · Mar 24, 2018

Cream said:
You really aren't helping your case.

never made one.

the poster I was quoting is correct - there is often when a topic of the mistreatment of trans people is concerned, there is no discussion to be had - most are the same page. Those threads don't make it past 2 pages because those who typically argue the contrary are swiftly banned...

WallSniper · Mar 24, 2018

Cream said:
Almost every trans poster I talk to disagrees.

So I cannot speak for them, but I can speak for myself as a person with a fairly conservative background, when I say that this community has been exceptional at opening my eyes to the challenges and heartaches the trans community faces. And has actually led me to defend/represent them in a number of in-person discussions.

Bandage · Mar 24, 2018

Exposure.
Most liberals/people know someone that is black, asian, gay, lesbian, no, ect ect.
Many likely don't personally know someone that is trans.
It's harder for a person to create that empathetic response when it's not a personal thing.

PaulloDEC · Mar 24, 2018

NervousXtian said:
Because it's a completely foreign concept to people, they don't understand it. I think it's easier for most people to understand those other issues you bring up, as it's easy to put yourself in those peoples shoes.. but people have a hard time getting their minds around gender dysphoria.

This. I think it's easy to forget that the subject is completely new and incredibly foreign to a lot of people, and it's going to take time for them to re-mould their world view to fit. The whole "boys and girls" paradigm is such a universal truth for many people, especially the older generations.

ShaheedMalik · Mar 24, 2018

Eldritch_Spectre said:
Moderation def lacks the teeth of the old forum though that seems to be by design at this point. Which is admittedly a tad confusing, given some of the current mods were the ones fighting for various marginalized groups at the old forum, but I assume they don't actually get to dictate policy here.

As for trans issue themselves it's the usual mix of fear/hate, and ppl not knowing about sex/gender differences in general. People also tend to only empathize with groups of people they know well, or are a member of.

This forum also has a tendency to be contrarian or for ppl to feel the need to play devil's advocate for some reason, no matter the topic.

I've had a couple of threads shut down by mods simply because a particular mod didn't the post. These threads contained no arguing but just to kill the thread. That's poor moderation.

If the thread makes people sad or possibly angry, they want to shut down discourse.

Threads such as:
Gun violence
Racism
Police Treatment.
Etc.

They don't want cages rattled to keep whoever happy.

Beartruck · Mar 24, 2018

Well get there man. One day at a time.

Noroi_Kisaragi · Mar 24, 2018

because there is no 100% agreement in gender to begin with

i will say i've seen very high support for trans issues on this forum compared to other sites, so im not sure what you're noticing here

Deleted member 9197 · Mar 24, 2018

I'm not terribly active on political threads here, because they frustrate me to no end, but I'm sincerely sorry that you feel like the trans issue is ignored or downplayed around here. It certainly shouldn't be that way.

As to the why, it seems like trans awareness is still struggling to get off the ground in spite of big headway in recent years. I wonder if the low percentage of the overall population that identifies as trans has anything to do with it. Most people know at least one or two gay folk or black folk or whomever else, but not everyone knows transgender people maybe? I have no idea. This is just a wild guess.

Either way, again, I'm very sorry for any dismissal or downplaying you see in that regard. Trans people deserve the same concern and attention as anybody, and we do every marginalized group a disservice by downplaying the concerns of one individual group, no matter how small.

Opto · Mar 24, 2018

Beartruck said:
Well get there man. One day at a time.

This changed context a lot, huh

dusteatingbug · Mar 24, 2018

PaulloDEC said:
This. I think it's easy to forget that the subject is completely new and incredibly foreign to a lot of people, and it's going to take time for them to re-mould their world view to fit. The whole "boys and girls" paradigm is such a universal truth for many people, especially the older generations.

I agree with this, but just to expand on my earlier post the sad thing is that it shouldn't matter. People shouldn't need to know a member of a minority not to be prejudiced about that minority. I wish people would learn the lesson "don't discriminate against any kind of person for who they are" instead of learning the lesson "don't discriminate against black people" and then later separately learning "don't discriminate against gay people" and then "don't discriminate against Asian people" and on and on and on.

But sadly it doesn't seem that that's the way people work.

Subpar Scrub · Mar 24, 2018

MiraculousSwidge said:
Cis PoC gets abused by police? Era rightly is up in arms. Trans PoC abused by police? Who gives a shit.

Did I miss a trash fire thread? Jesus. Could you link me to the thread that has most people saying "who cares" in response to that scenario?

dusteatingbug · Mar 24, 2018

Also, Cream, as a cisgender member what would you say I should be doing to push back against this? Not as a confrontational question just honestly asking what you think would be good for aspiring allies to do, given what you've seen?

nemoral · Mar 24, 2018

Many people have never met a trans person. And many people are incapable of extending empathy in situations where they have no personal connection. You see this all time when people with bad politics suddenly realize their politics are bad when their son or daughter comes out. The forum also has a number of clearly transphobic posters who show up in every thread and dance around their point in an attempt to shit on trans people without getting banned. All that said, I'd be interested in what forums you think are doing a better job at creating a welcoming space for trans people in the gaming field.

loquaciousJenny · Mar 24, 2018

Noroi_Kisaragi said:
because there is no 100% agreement in gender to begin with

i will say i've seen very high support for trans issues on this forum compared to other sites, so im not sure what you're noticing here

I mean, the same could be said of the old place. Trans issues were better there than other sites, but it didn't stop some cunt from banning half of the trans community for defending their identity. That said the zero tolerance policy on trans hate here has been pretty nice frankly.

Why do so many liberals ability to care stop at trans people?

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