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Why does Sony seemingly not respect its own legacy and history?

Oct 29, 2017
713
That doesn't mean anything either way though. SNES9x is the best SNES emulator there is, and to my knowledge it lacks a rewind button.
Capcom was able to build a rewind button into their Legacy Collections, which included PlayStation games. It's not that difficult for a company of Sony's resources. If Nintendo can hack online functionality into NES games, Sony can manage a rewind button for PlayStation.
Most straightforward way to make a rewind feature is by leveraging the save state feature. Just record a state every x ticks, and load those states when rewinding. Lower x yields smoother rewind, but requires more memory. I bet that's how the NES and SNES classics do it.

If the PS Classic emulator is PCSX, than you'd expect it to have save state functionality. Implementing rewind should be trivial, unless the PS Classic comes with the bare minimum amount of memory to run the underlying operating system and the game.
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,104
Massachusetts
I think that the games are being emulated on here, porting them wholesale would be prohibitively expensive. Might be totally wrong though.
Most straightforward way to make a rewind feature is by leveraging the save state feature. Just record a state every x ticks, and load those states when rewinding. Lower x yields smoother rewind, but requires more memory. I bet that's how the NES and SNES classics do it.

If the PS Classic emulator is PCSX, than you'd expect it to have save state functionality. Implementing rewind should be trivial, unless the PS Classic comes with the bare minimum amount of memory to run the underlying operating system and the game.
Everything I'm seeing online says that a PSX emulator with a rewind function would be a taxing proposition. Memory demands and the amount of background processes necessary apparently spike once you hit N64 and PS1 for this sort of thing. Considering how long people have been emulating PS1 games (I'm talking nearly twenty years here), and the fact nobody seems to have put one out there with a rewind feature, I'm assuming it's a pain in the neck for whatever reason.

My initial point still stands, as I was responding to this:

Come on now we’re not asking much. How about adding few features like rewind or filters in the PS Classic ? How hard is that ? That’s a lazy effort from Sony to get easy money. I won’t give them a pass.
I'm getting the impression it was actually pretty hard.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,059
If the PS Classic emulator is PCSX, than you'd expect it to have save state functionality. Implementing rewind should be trivial
~4MB save-state doesn't exactly make things trivial, these boxes are obviously cost-constrained, so memory won't be in abundance.
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,938
They just don't rely on it as heavily as Nintendo do, because they're good at putting out new stuff instead. Nintendo's business heavily relies on going back to old IP. It's just a different business model. Not doing what the nostalgia company does doesn't mean you don't care.
Right, Ratched and Clank is such a new IP. Medievil as well. Crash and SotC remakes are so new I can't even. Playstation Classic doesn't exist in your world I guess. Notsalgia company lol. And I'll take the gameplay/artstyle/tone - changes between every Zelda title over 4.5 Uncharted games that have barely anything going for them but graphics, same IP or not. I love what Sony does most of the time, but to pretend they aren't going for nostalgia in the midst of their Playstation Classic is utterly ridiculous. Some serious console warrior vibes with this one.
 
Oct 29, 2017
713
Everything I'm seeing online says that a PSX emulator with a rewind function would be a taxing proposition. Memory demands and the amount of background processes necessary apparently spike once you hit N64 and PS1 for this sort of thing. Considering how long people have been emulating PS1 games (I'm talking nearly twenty years here), and the fact nobody seems to have put one out there with a rewind feature, I'm assuming it's a pain in the neck for whatever reason.
~4MB save-state doesn't exactly make things trivial, these boxes are obviously cost-constrained, so memory won't be in abundance.
I suppose I should've been clearer about the cost of hardware involved in implementing this feature. I was mostly thinking from a software dev angle. In that case, implementing the feature should be fairly easy.

But yes with 4MB per save state, you'll run into memory limitations pretty quick. Also creating and writing the save state will cost some cycles, and if the CPU is not fast enough to do that concurrently with playing the game, then you can't do rewind.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,514
London
Its not an opinion when its fact based on definition.
Care to share the fact based definition of video games remastering?

PC is tricky because they release “remasters” there as well even though some people are already playing them at the remaster quality.
Wait, what? You consider last gen games remastered on PC because they're able to play them in 4K?

I didnt know that since I didnt play it on PS3 seem like a remaster to me guess it is a remake then.
TNC is not a remake. Shadow of the Collosus and Resident Evil are good examples of a remake.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,059
I suppose I should've been clearer about the cost of hardware involved in implementing this feature. I was mostly thinking from a software dev angle. In that case, implementing the feature should be fairly easy.
Well yes, that perspective makes it relatively simple - within reason.
I mean are we ok with rewind with say... 1-second granularity or are people demanding it per-frame (which starts to go prohibitively expensive even on high-end hw).
 
Dec 25, 2017
1,418
Certain posts on the MediEvil thread, Crash's Trilogy after its release and even on this one also makes me think that PSfans don't care that much about that either. And like others mentioned a lot of reliance on third parties makes things difficult for Sony to approach.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,984
Watertown, NY
That sounds like a remake honestly if they taking entire models and putting them somewhere else. A remastered game focuses on improving the performance of a game. Remakes focus on the performance, quality of content. Often times changing things artistically and adding value in gameplay. While remakes focus on performance, image quality, QOL features.

Its not an opinion when its fact based on definition. PC is tricky because they release “remasters” there as well even though some people are already playing them at the remaster quality.

I didnt know that since I didnt play it on PS3 seem like a remaster to me guess it is a remake then.
They are using the models that are in the original cutscenes. Do you not understand how video games work? The character models used in a rendered cutscene aka movie file are more detailed than the ones in game. Still same assets within the confines of the game, they just used the ones that were in the rendered cutscenes since they were way more detailed. It's still not a remake, they are still using assets from within the original source of the game. Same thing was done with Last of Us remaster.

Kind of funny that MS is so far ahead in this aspect even though they have far less nostalgia and back catalogue for obvious reasons.
Not surprising when looking at the backbone of their company is OS/SOFTWARE so getting older games running on their current system is something they are well equipped to do.

But the reason they doubled down on it early on in the gen instead of having it a main feature at launch was because of where their position was, and wanting to retain player base.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,013
To counter your point, what about Shadow of the Colossus, a superb remake which launched this year? Ratchet & Clank, the PS2 game, was also brilliantly remade. What about their close partnership with Activision to bring back Crash and Spyro in the right way? What about what they're doing with MediEvil? What about when they brought back Vib-Ribbon just because Layden thinks it's cool? What about PlayStation Underground, a fan-facing brand which Sony brought back? What about trailers like this, which show they recognise their legacy? What about all the merchandising they've started to lean into this generation? What about the retro PSone and PS2 themes you can get for the PS4? What about the anniversary console designs they've released? What about what they did with WipEout, not only remastering it but also completely re-imagining it in VR? What about how they took God of War, re-imagined it, and brought it back in a way that matters in 2018?

Heck, there are only two main PlayStation consoles without any form of backwards compatibility, and one of them is the first they ever made.

I think you're being harsh cherry-picking a trio of bad examples. They definitely care, and the Jim Ryan quote that everyone talks about is constantly taken out of context to suit an agenda.
Pretty much all the above.
 
Oct 27, 2017
379
The guys at NERD themselves admitting it on stage at SCaLE during the gaming sections of the conferences around open source ...
And their continued involvement in the help for the Linux driver for the Nintendo Switch Pro controller with the blessings of Nintendo Japan ...
I mean it's hardly a secret at this point ...
Interesting, didn't know about that. So Canoe is a de-facto fork of Higan, right? Shouldn't they release the source code?
 
Aug 22, 2018
275
It doesn't own a huge part of its legacy. Look at the top 10 or so selling Playstation 1 games for example.

Gran Turismo entries heavily rely on licensed content. the Crash Trilogy, MGS1, multiple Final Fantasy games, Tekken, and Tomb Raider were all or are now currently third party properties. What's left of the PS1's legacy titles that they still own range from relatively obscure (Vib-Ribbon, Medievil in the US, etc.) or no longer holding the same level of relevance that they did back in their time (Parappa, Twisted Metal).

The Playstation Classic product really shows that while they were able to reach out to secure the rights to a handful of their best sellers, the glaring absence of entire franchises that made their mark on the lifetime on the system are too big not to notice. While I would say the SNES Classic provides a really quick indication of the best of the best for the SNES with some omissions, the PS1 Classic is nothing close
 
Nov 4, 2018
900
Interesting, didn't know about that. So Canoe is a de-facto fork of Higan, right? Shouldn't they release the source code?
It started as a fork but then diverged fairly profoundly , but the same team also work on the BSD version of Higan cores so their findings do get contributed upstream to Higan some few months after .
NERD guys are therefore in the clear given they recontribute their findings upstream to Higan .
 
Nov 27, 2017
199
I think this is unfair proposition. I completely agree with the statement "why would anyone play this".

Nintendo consoles started in the 8-bit era, whereas Playstation in the 32-bit era. Sprites aged much better over time than low quality unfiltered 3D. It was impressive for the time, but it looks like ass today.

For example, Ocarina of Time 3D, which is a remaster, still looks very dated. Imagine if it's released in it's original form with it's original framerate. Why would anyone play that? Even with nostalgia it's very hard to swallow.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,311
I think this is unfair proposition. I completely agree with the statement "why would anyone play this".

Nintendo consoles started in the 8-bit era, whereas Playstation in the 32-bit era. Sprites aged much better over time than low quality unfiltered 3D. It was impressive for the time, but it looks like ass today.

For example, Ocarina of Time 3D, which is a remaster, still looks very dated. Imagine if it's released in it's original form with it's original framerate. Why would anyone play that? Even with nostalgia it's very hard to swallow.
People are usually able to go back to games they loved, no matter how old they are. After all, people still love NES games and I'd personally argue they've aged no better than than N64/PS games, at least for me, with how much better the various genres from that generation have been done since then. Tons of folk would be able to to back to classics like FF7 and OoT, no problem
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,772
The difference between SOTC on Ps3 and SOTC on PS4
Thank you, great example so we can hopefully move past this lol

Shadow of the Collossus PS4 is a remake, Shadow of the Collossus PS3 is a remaster, and if Sony released SotC as a PS2 classic on PS4 it would be "enhanced" emulation because it is the original PS2 game at a higher res and more stable framerate.
 
Oct 27, 2017
771
It's amazing how quickly the cartoonishly ignorant caricature of the PS Classic has taken hold on the board today.

Most straightforward way to make a rewind feature is by leveraging the save state feature. Just record a state every x ticks, and load those states when rewinding. Lower x yields smoother rewind, but requires more memory. I bet that's how the NES and SNES classics do it.
A rewind feature for PS1 would be tremendously more complicated and resource intensive than on an 8 bit or 16 bit system. Its absence is totally understandable given the target price point.
 
Dec 1, 2017
2,773
It is bad, and I can now imagine a PS2 classic lineup with more than half these tittles missing. Only one I can excuse is DMC, which should be replace by DMC3.
 

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,829
Wisconsin
It comes down to the fact that they only reference their past in relatively rare occasions and when they do they are referencing one specific thing, rather than a large group of things. Nintendo is constantly bringing old things up, not just to rely on the old things for those who were there but to introduce them to new players. I think Sony forgets that they have to re-introduce these ips and ideas steadily, seeding them in the minds of their consumers new and old if they want their legacy to really drive new business. You can't just say "Hey look, it's Vibri! Remember her?" once, you have to do it all the time or that mixture of collective memory and uninformed curiosity lies dormant. You have to put in the work to make legacy content matter and they don't seem to understand what work they need to do to make it matter to their consumer base.

It's like if Nintendo were to remake Startropics in a style very closely tied to the original. It wouldn't work beyond very hardcore fans because Nintendo hasn't talked about Startropics in decades and the idea of wanting to return to that game or celebrate what made it interesting for some hasn't been seeded in consumers' minds. They do a lot of great stuff with certain legacy brands but the rest fall flat because of this lack of re-exposure.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,579
Canada
I was looking at the PS2 library on the PS4 and was really disappointed at how little was really there. Like where are Sony's PS2 exclusives like all of the Ratchet & Clank games and Sly Cooper games? The Jak games came out in fucking 2017. There's no Ico for pete's sake.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_2_games_for_PlayStation_4

And then it just reminded me of this thread and how fucking dumb it all is