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Cybersai

Banned
Jan 8, 2018
11,631
Smash Bros. has historically had very few cut characters per iterations. It was usually due to time like Mewtwo cut for Brawl or the 3DS limitations literally killing off Ice Climbers, Pokemon Trainer, etc. But otherwise Sakurai does his best to bring back almost everyone in each new game.

But why don't more fighters do this?

Mortal Kombat XL literally cut half the roster of Mortal Kombat 9. No playable Smoke, Noob, Sindel, Stryker, Kabal, Sheeva, Shang Tsung, Jade, etc. It was absurd how many classic MK characters were missing.

Injustice 2 wiped out over 15+ characters from the original. No Slade, Nightwing, Raven, etc.

Street Fighter V of course...60% of old characters are still missing with no indication they'll return.

So why do fighters do this? Since the old characters already have movesets you'd assume it's an easy fix to just upgrade their character models but keep their moves mostly the same per each game.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Because it costs money and gathers accusations of laziness.
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
Probably makes the game harder to balance and some characters can be lame.

Slade, Batgirl, and Raven are not lame characters though and their cuts were very bad...
 

Vibed

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,504
I think because 1. Sakurai has a crazy work ethic, 2. Smash carries over assets and mechanics more often game to game, and 3. The cost would be too much for many fighting IPs.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,043
Re-used assets become obvious over time and you get clashing artstyles.

latest
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,239
The King of Fighters 98 Ultimate Match and The King of Fighters 2002 Unlimited Match brought back almost every single character of their respective eras.

Also the Tekken Tag Tournament games.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,607
Smash isn't considered a fighting game by its director, and balancing for competitive play wasn't Sakurai's priority.
That said, they still cut characters going from Melee to Brawl, and Brawl to 4
 

Deleted member 35077

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
3,999
It's impossible for KoF as it is a crossover game that spans multiple snk games. This grandeur game that you speak off would have over one hundred characters.
 

Sgt. Demblant

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,030
France
Because all the Sakurai clones are locked in a factory somewhere and Nintendo is not willing to share the technology.
 

Professor Beef

Official ResetEra™ Chao Puncher
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,498
The Digital World
This is the first time a Smash game has brought everyone back after cutting characters in the previous game(s), not counting the first sequel (Melee).

If anything, Smash is already doing what other fighting games have.
 

Bman94

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,542
In addition to what everyone else said: it keeps the rooster fresh. You clutter up a new fighter's release with a ton of old characters the new characters don't get time to shine. Like yeah Injustice 2 and MKX took a lot of characters out but the new ones they introduced are some of my favorite in both respective franchises.

Also this isn't like the 90's where everything was Sprite based and can churned out quickly. Just look at the Street Fighter release dates in the 90's, there was pretty much a new iteration of street fighter every year, sometimes two times a year since ST2's release. Those costs were heavily subsidized by the arcade in addition to home ports as well as using tools to speed up the process. Now it's just not financially possible to do that is this climate. Fighters have already kinda fell into a niche category of its own now.
 

Fawz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,654
Montreal
As much as can be saved by reusing Assets & Character Design it still amounts to a considerable resource drain and comes at a cost in other departments. Characters the most resource intensive content to add to a fighting game due to it interacting with just about every element of the game. Most fighting games don't sell anywhere near as much as Smash does and so can't really afford to just go all in on the roster unless they straight up carry over assets from past entries, which we saw much more prominently in the 2D era.
 

Ryuhza

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
11,422
San Diego County
Even when it is fairly well balanced, the competitive side doesn't like to learn that many character matchups. So beyond it being hard work, there is a contingent of players who don't even want it. :\
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,552
Eventually a series would get too expensive if each one not only has to include the entire previous roster, but add new characters as well. Smash Brothers being way more popular than other fighting games allows them to spend more on it.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,251
Houston, TX
Because some fighting games prefer to start from scratch or to have a manageable number of characters to balance. In the case of Street Fighter, it's basically tradition that they start from zero for each numbered entry. The only way that Street Fighter V could have accomplished something similar to Smash Ultimate is if they reused Street Fighter IV's assets, & those assets didn't exactly age well.

There's also story-related reasons for absent characters in the case of MKX & Injustice 2, where certain characters like Shazam were killed off in Injustice 1 or in the in-canon Injustice comics.
 

Kaguya

Member
Jun 19, 2018
6,402
Don't think this way or say stuff like this. This is just bad info to spread around.
It's the reality of it, the other game which heavily rely on cross generation recycled assets/animation is Tekken and it too does those Tag games where they bring everyone back. You can't realistically bring everyone back when you make every new game in the series from the ground up.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,041
Really matters on how different the newest installment is. SF4->SFV was such a big departure that it wasn't going to happen like all the mainline SF games. MvC3->MvC:I was a huge missed opportunity though. MvC3 had to start from scratch again since it was the first 3D entry, and instead of building on it like they did past Marvels they started from scratch again.
 

MH MD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,011
Doesn't it cost Capcom a shitload of money to create one character in SF?
It does, and most actual fighting games in general takes a lot of time and money to create just one character.
Smash is not a traditional fighting game and the way they design the characters is different
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,251
Houston, TX
Really matters on how different the newest installment is. SF4->SFV was such a big departure that it wasn't going to happen. MvC3->MvC:I was a huge missed opportunity though. MvC3 had to start from scratch again, and instead of building on it like they did past Marvels they started from scratch just again.
MvCI actually reused UMvC3 assets, but its issues were a mix of corporate meddling from Marvel (regarding the Marvel side of the roster, the even ratio of female fighters for both sides, & the art style) & the execution on Capcom's part (especially with the art style).
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,041
MvCI actually reused UMvC3 assets, but its issues were a mix of corporate meddling from Marvel (regarding the Marvel side of the roster, the even ratio of female fighters for both sides, & the art style) & the execution on Capcom's part (especially with the art style).

Well when I say "reuse" I mean reuse them all. The series was built on reusing almost everything (even morrigan!) from previous games, MvC:I broke that model.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,251
Houston, TX
Well when I say "reuse" I mean reuse them all. The series was built on reusing almost everything (even morrigan!) from previous games, MvC:I broke that model.
That unfortunately wasn't gonna happen due to two of the imposed restrictions by Marvel (the X-Men/F4 ban as well as the "both sides must have the same number of female fighters" thing).
 

Scoops

Member
Oct 27, 2017
213
I'm not even a fighting game fan but just think about how much money that would cost for a series like Mortal Kombat to spend on just voice acting and motion capture alone.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,251
Houston, TX
I'm not even a fighting game fan but just think about how much money that would cost for a series like Mortal Kombat to spend on just voice acting and motion capture alone.
I think it's only NRS games that are unionized. The likes of Smash & even Street Fighter are non-union jobs.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,041
That unfortunately wasn't gonna happen due to two of the imposed restrictions by Marvel (the X-Men/F4 ban as well as the "both sides must have the same number of female fighters" thing).

I don't really care why, just more that it was such a clear cut example of where all the assets should have been reused but weren't. In the end it killed the game too.
 

John Harker

Knows things...
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,336
Santa Destroy
Most fighters come out as New titles and not remastered for new platforms.

Individual fighters could cost $1-$2mm+ to develop... very expensive, especially if it's all new libraries. More of there are cosmetics.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,251
Houston, TX

Mat-triX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
968
Wasn't the idea of "Every fighter ever" in one game the premise of Mortal Kombat Armageddon?
 

Janna OP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
593
i dont think any 3d fighter would want to spend that much time trying to revive characters that eventually end up being bum.

im looking at u, pichu u smiling little fuck.
 

PSqueak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,464
It's basically what the final version of Street Fighter 4 did.

And yes, Ultra Street Fighter 4 basically is an entirely different game from Vanilla Street Fighter 4, Smash bros Ultimate basically is doing what USF4 did to the next level.
 

Jom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
When games don't care about balance at all they do tend to do that. Look at the MvC series.
 

MH MD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,011
Also blazblue does that and add new characters every time and keeps all the old characters at the same time, as well as other fighting games like tekken tag series.
Smash is not special in this case and shouldn't be treated like some special snowflake