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Why is Christianity Big in Korea, and not so much in Japan?
- Thread starter DosaDaRaja
- Start date
As a Korean American, I think the history of when and where is less interesting than why Koreans tend to be so devoted. Yeah, obviously not all Koreans are religious (I'm personally not very) but Koreans that ARE tend to be very, very deep into their religion (I saw one stat that said like 71% of Korean Americans are Christian) and Korean-American cultures can be completely based around churches in general.
It still goes back to Han, long standing feelings of persecution, insecurity, isolation etc. While not overtly obvious these days, it still permeates Korean culture prominently (one needs to only watch any K melodrama to see). Naturally, internal complexes such as that will lead to a need for guidance, and enlightenment... enter the church... or if you're in the North, Kim Il Sung.
It still goes back to Han, long standing feelings of persecution, insecurity, isolation etc. While not overtly obvious these days, it still permeates Korean culture prominently (one needs to only watch any K melodrama to see). Naturally, internal complexes such as that will lead to a need for guidance, and enlightenment... enter the church... or if you're in the North, Kim Il Sung.
There is actually a Lupin III (Part 2) episode that uses that as it's plot (only it introduces a further plot twist with Jesus' vampire shadow sister that hates God).
Anyway "Isukiri" is written in Japanese like it's a foreign name, although I haven't ever seen anyone attempting to write it like it wasn't just a Japanese name.
some of the Khans following Dschingis had Christian lineage
when Baghdad was sacked, one of the most brutal massacres in pre-modern history, only the churches and the people in them were spared because the mother of the Khan, Sorghaghtani Beki, was Christian
Japan saw Christianity making inroads into Southeast Asia, which made them uneasy, and when Portuguese Christians started doing their thing in Japan they kicked them out and locked their borders to the outside world for 200 years to everyone but the Dutch, who were smart enough to keep religion to themselves.
It wasn't until the late 19th century that they reopened their borders, under threat from the Americans.
It wasn't until the late 19th century that they reopened their borders, under threat from the Americans.
The Japanese also thought of Catholicism/Christianity as a means of western indoctrination used by colonizers like the Dutch (partly true).
If you want to learn more you should google Shirou Amakusa. Or watch Fate/Apocrypha, an animated episodic documentary that accurately depicts the spiritual struggles of said martyr and his actions to find salvation.
If you want to learn more you should google Shirou Amakusa. Or watch Fate/Apocrypha, an animated episodic documentary that accurately depicts the spiritual struggles of said martyr and his actions to find salvation.
Christian missionaries had been in Korea for centuries, dating back to the 18th century. Christianity was never banned or outlawed in Korea. On the other hand, Christianity was formally outlawed and persecuted in Japan into the 19th century, and while the ban was technically lifted by the late 1800s, it was still forced underground and Christians were regularly arrested and persecuted for trumped up fake charges. Japan was notably more hostile to the west than Korea up until the mid 1800s, and Christianity would have been one of those western exports that Japan would have opposed before opening up to influence.
The Japanese persecuted Christians well through to the end of World War II, including Korean Christians. Christianity in Korea during the Japanese occupation (~1900-1945) was, for the most part, banned by the Japanese military, with public executions. Christianity in Korea became associated with Korean nationalism during the Japanese occupation.
There are obvious other cultural differences, but ~400 years of persecution will generally result in fewer people practicing.
Though, today, there have still been a number of Christian prime ministers of Japan since World War II.
The Japanese persecuted Christians well through to the end of World War II, including Korean Christians. Christianity in Korea during the Japanese occupation (~1900-1945) was, for the most part, banned by the Japanese military, with public executions. Christianity in Korea became associated with Korean nationalism during the Japanese occupation.
There are obvious other cultural differences, but ~400 years of persecution will generally result in fewer people practicing.
Though, today, there have still been a number of Christian prime ministers of Japan since World War II.
It's a Christian theology established in the 70s combining the unique national values and experiences with the messages in the Bible. It's the people's theology literally.
It's sure a tragedy, I mean Jesus traveled the long way from Jerusalem to Japan after all.
We need a new thread. We need to discuss this plot twist.
Hmmmmmm
Anyway, people in this thread are really conflating Catholicism with Christianity as a whole. That probably doesn't make very much sense in this context.
You should look up the word canon. Edginess of your comment aside, it doesn't mean real.
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I'm not following the premise of this thread. Why would it be strange for Christianity to pick up in Korea but not Japan?
It's sure a tragedy, I mean Jesus traveled the long way from Jerusalem to Japan after all.
Is this cultural appropriation? Because if it is, I've found the one instance where I am 100% ok with it, no questions asked. Glorious.
Hmmm, I don't remember this from Manga Messiah.It's sure a tragedy, I mean Jesus traveled the long way from Jerusalem to Japan after all.
Must be from Manga Messiah Shippuuden Z.
Japan suppressed Christianity. Didn't they, like, brand them as traitors and murder them as enemy of the state? They also had God Emperor man until WW2 or whatever.
"americanized"? i don't know about that, but i thought the Asian country most influenced by the western world was the Philippines.
Lmao! It looks like Netflix Japan picked up The Bible for three new seasons.It's sure a tragedy, I mean Jesus traveled the long way from Jerusalem to Japan after all.
Although worded condescendingly, it's true. The Bible is a reflection of different Christologies in early Christianity. The teachings of the Synoptic Gospels, the Johannine writings, the Pauline and Pastoral epistles all depict different beliefs. But these differences have been reconciled over time.
It was spreading long before the 20th century and wasn't stamped out like it was in Japan and China.
Oh fuck me this is too much. LOLIt's sure a tragedy, I mean Jesus traveled the long way from Jerusalem to Japan after all.
It's sure a tragedy, I mean Jesus traveled the long way from Jerusalem to Japan after all.
So does this mean that Isukiri was the one who rose from the dead on the third day? That is one heck of a plot twist.
They took the one part of Christianity that they want, which is western Christian style weddings. Even those are often done as one of two ceremonies, the other being a traditional Japanese style ceremony. Japan takes what it wants from other cultures, and as a society don't seem very interested in a "one true god" style of religion.
As for post-WWII, they already have Shintoism and Buddhism combined and fully permeated throughout their society. Christianity doesn't integrate well with other religions, so converting would require cutting oneself off from one's cultural traditions.
I think South Korea was much more open to American influence on religion because Japan had recently tried stripping them of their own culture to make them more like Japan, so after Japanese occupation many were looking for something to fill that void and find a new identity.
Why not? No sects of Christianity have become widespread in Japan. And Christianity/Catholicism were used as a tool by western colonizers, and it's a big reason why Japan banned Christianity and closed itself off from western influence for a couple hundred years. They weren't very interested in the differences between various sects, they just wanted nothing to do with the religion as a whole.
As for post-WWII, they already have Shintoism and Buddhism combined and fully permeated throughout their society. Christianity doesn't integrate well with other religions, so converting would require cutting oneself off from one's cultural traditions.
I think South Korea was much more open to American influence on religion because Japan had recently tried stripping them of their own culture to make them more like Japan, so after Japanese occupation many were looking for something to fill that void and find a new identity.
Seeing that you seem somewhat informed, what's the word for the collections of standard books that make up the bible exactly? It doesn't really matter too much, but that's literally what canon is. All other usages have come by way of analogy.
Either way, that poster was just trying to be edgy.
Generally randomly conflating things doesn't make much sense. It's certainly odd to construct a statement that seems to imply that the Dutch, the second most reformed of all nations, of all peoples were interested in spreading Catholicism. This is especially true in this case since the main source of proselytizing in Korea is Protestant and the main source in Japan is Catholic.That's a very noteworthy difference.
And Buddhism does? What happened is more complicated than that. It's not a coincidence that Pure Land Buddhism is basically something entirely different than other sects.
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I read about this in college! Korea has a long history of Christianity that predates Japanese colonialism. Japan outlawed practice of Christianity, and many practiced it in secret. When Japan was defeated, many Pagan Japanese shrines that were erected were burned to the ground by devout followers.
People tend to get uneasy about Christianity in Asia because it feels like cultural imperialism. I think even reading this thread you an kinda get a sense of this sentiment. However, it's not necessarily something that Western Europeans have ownership over. Christianity was once a foreign ideology to them, as well. It actually has its start in places like Syria and northern Africa well before it got a foothold in Europe.
I think there are obviously a lot of ideas in Christianity and Islam (the two most popular international religions) that resonate with people from around the world today, but of course perseverance of certain schools of religious thought can rightly be attributed to good-ole fashioned terror tactics and tyranny. While I personally find great wisdom in the Bible, Quran, and other sources of spiritual guidance, it's when they ask (or often, demand) that I ignore the evidence of my eyes and ears where i find them no longer worth much to me.
People tend to get uneasy about Christianity in Asia because it feels like cultural imperialism. I think even reading this thread you an kinda get a sense of this sentiment. However, it's not necessarily something that Western Europeans have ownership over. Christianity was once a foreign ideology to them, as well. It actually has its start in places like Syria and northern Africa well before it got a foothold in Europe.
I think there are obviously a lot of ideas in Christianity and Islam (the two most popular international religions) that resonate with people from around the world today, but of course perseverance of certain schools of religious thought can rightly be attributed to good-ole fashioned terror tactics and tyranny. While I personally find great wisdom in the Bible, Quran, and other sources of spiritual guidance, it's when they ask (or often, demand) that I ignore the evidence of my eyes and ears where i find them no longer worth much to me.
These two probably are the closest. In general Japan is not very religious and I personally like the adaption method they use. Even if a lot of Japanese visit a shrine on New Year it is more a tradition than belief.
When you say standard, are you referring to the books shared between different canons? I'm not entirely certain what you mean.
I'm referring to any recognized standard itself, so you used the word I was looking for in the question. The entire point of what I'm saying is that the common "nerd," no idea what to actually call this, usage of the word canon is itself an analogy to the idea of a biblical canon. Acting like there are no Christian canons is ridiculous because that's literally what the word means.
Oh. I'm not sure if you're saying this, but of course I realize that Christian literature is largely unified now (though there's still not exactly a consensus). I'm not pretending it isn't or anything. I only wanted to share that the New Testament itself still contains diverse beliefs from the first century.
It's sure a tragedy, I mean Jesus traveled the long way from Jerusalem to Japan after all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinbutsu-shūgō
Buddhism can exist along with Shinto. Christianity cannot exist with another religion.
Yeah, I'm just saying that poster, beyond just being edgy, was also wrong in a humorous way in denying the idea of Christian canon/s.
That's not addressing what I said though. Ideal types of religion are never what actually goes on in the ground. Instead they are interpreted and enacted. Mainstream ideal type Buddism also does not work with other religions in theory. The fact that the Japanese made a sort of syncretic Buddhism, itself also deriving from syncretic Chinese Buddhisms, that they then practice is evidence that this argument is too simplistic because they feasibly could have done the same thing with Christianity.
I would unironically read the shit out of a seinen manga that canonizes all the various Jesus tales from across the world in some way into a coherent story. It would be too controversial for the West to do it, but Japan is crazy enough to do it.It's sure a tragedy, I mean Jesus traveled the long way from Jerusalem to Japan after all.
Ideologies are marketable, say something enough times and it becomes truth. This isn't anything profound or new, if you don't want an ideology to spread, you have to market your counter ideology. Japan countered Christianity (intentionally or not) and that prevented its spread.
Here is the one and only informed post so far in this thread, so allow me to QFT because the rest is speculation/fantasy and has strictly no historical ground to stand on.
I'm not a historian so some fact-checking might be required, but for the sake of giving a little more details, Christianity actually had its chance in Japan at some point.
It was first brought in by the Portuguese Crown through a missionary named Francisco Xavier in the mid 16th century, during a period known as the Sengoku Era, and was initially fairly well received, partially from a spiritual point of view, but also (mostly?) because it was a way into trade and information about the West.
After his rise to power, shogun Oda Nobunaga wasn't opposed to it and his successor Toyotomi Hideyoshi followed in Nobunaga's footsteps. At that point, Christian missionaries were very welcome and over the years, a number of Japanese daimyos (feudal lords) even converted.
When Hideyoshi died, his successor Tokugawa Ieyasu wasn't initially opposed to Christianity, but he could see that besides the Catholic superpower that was Portugal at the time, Protestant superpowers were gaining a lot of ground - namely Great Britain and the Netherlands. So instead of leaning solely towards Portugal for everything Western, he started looking at other countries and made it clear.
Then in the early 17th century, an incident known as the Okamoto Daihachi incident happened. I strongly advise you to Google it for more information, but basically two Christian higher-ups of Ieyasu's crew created a situation of corruption, lies and manipulation which, once they came to light, were enough for Ieyasu to ban entirely Christianity out of the country.
Christians then became persecuted, most were killed early on.
The only ones who were allowed to keep trading when Japan then completely closed its borders were the Dutch because they had a "no religious propagation" policy. They were, however, restricted to a very small area in southern Japan.
Then the ban was lifted in the late 1800s, and you can go back to The Albatross' very good post for the rest.
Thanks Time to beer up! very good info & I learned a lot about japan & Christianity before the 1800s.
And now, it's time to beer up. Cheers!
I learned about this from the Hardcore History podcast recently!
You know how people in this thread have said that Japan likes tacking things on to their existing belief set and making them all compliment each other instead of fight against one another?
Christianity has an incredibly storied history of destroying other religions and assimilating the parts they like and attributing it to the One True God. So storied that it's a major part of the bible, because when you look at even the old testament it's about destroying a thriving polytheism and that action being told from the point of view of the victors. It is fundamentally incompatible because Christianity is a destructive theology in practice.
