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Why is constant lying by the president not punishable?

Jon Carter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,709
All politicians lie, but there's lying and there's LYING ALL THE FUCKING TIME ABOUT STUFF WE KNOW IS TRUE BECAUSE IT WAS SAID IN PUBLIC.
The president of the United States is knowingly misleading the American people every day to get them to support his policies by straight up lying to them. Not spinning, just plain lying. Shouldn't there be a limit to how much you can lie, how big your lies can be, how misleading they can be, when your job is to represent the people you're lying to? What other job is there where you can be caught day in and day out knowingly lying about things to further your agenda and just get to keep your job?
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,189
If Trump was a Democrat, he WOULD be punished for it. Lying is only punishable when it's not a Republican doing it. The GOP is broken beyond saving.
 

Felt

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,982
People say things to remain in power. Hello. Like every dictator has a book about it
 

Trigonometrize

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,931
Impeachment is the check on the president. Honesty is not a standard that has any reason to be unique to the chief executive IMO versus other elected officials, so I don't think there needs to be any additional checks specifically on lying beyond Congress and elections. Maybe you want to argue for shorter presidential terms?
 

Powdered Egg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,366
He's not lying under oath so he's got unlimited continues.

And to answer your last question- the news, the school education system, and religious preachers all lie a lot or at minimum purposefully mislead and omit.
 

Felt

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,982
Also, any law regarding "lying" is a slippery slope considering how everyone has different perspectives and all that.

And to answer your last question. Just look at Fox news lol they literally make a killing off deception and spin, but all major US news outlets to some degree mislead people.

For profit news is destroying this country imo
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,960
In an ideal world the public would not elect or re-elect a pathological liar.

Trump has lied openly his whole life, he lied constantly through his campaign.

Enough people were cool with that so he won. It would actually be weirder if the people who voted for him suddenly found his lying problematic or impeachable.

Also, any law regarding "lying" is a slippery slope considering how everyone has different perspectives and all that.
Empirical facts are not perspectives
 

PopsMaellard

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,897
Also, any law regarding "lying" is a slippery slope considering how everyone has different perspectives and all that.
I see what you’re getting at, but you can’t have a perspective on a fact. That’s kind of what OP was saying; Trump doesn’t do the perspective thing, he just straight up unabashedly lies about objective facts that can be easily and immediately disproven with public information. A lot of what he says can’t be written off as a different take or perspective, it just simply isn’t true even through an extremist conservative lens.
 

Felt

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,982
I see what you’re getting at, but you can’t have a perspective on a fact. That’s kind of what OP was saying; Trump doesn’t do the perspective thing, he just straight up unabashedly lies about objective facts that can be easily and immediately disproven with public information. A lot of what he says can’t be written off as a different take or perspective, it just simply isn’t true even through an extremist conservative lens.
I mean... You can though lol. People can look at the US-Mexico border and see a normal border or see a crisis depending on their perspective. I'm stretching here but there's always a way to twist his lies by saying they are an opinion or whatever.
 

Wracu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,179
Republicans want to be lied to. Deep down they know it is all bullshit. Buy why care? It makes them feel good. Reality will never actually agree with them, so what other option is there?

And in this country, no matter how bad it gets for them, black and brown and lgbtq people will always have it worse. And that's just swell!

Also America is like totally invincible so it can never go totally sideways right???
 

Sokrates

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
560
Because if lying was made illegal then every single politician would be in jail. It’s a slippery slope that shouldn’t be tread on.

In an ideal world impeachment would be a good counterbalance to a pathological liar, but the Republicans won’t do that.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
8,737
We've had lying presidents before, not a compulsive lying president. The system was not built to protect itself from a bad actor like Trump. The founding fathers never envisioned we'd get here, and the GOP has made it extra difficult to modify the imperfections over the decades.
 
OP
OP
Jon Carter

Jon Carter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,709
any law regarding "lying" is a slippery slope considering how everyone has different perspectives and all that.
I get what you're saying but there are laws regarding misleading or deceptive advertising and that's harder to prove than plain lying. Sony had to pay up a few years ago because the FTC ruled that their early Vita ads were misleading. The worst thing their deceptive marketing resulted in was people spending a few hundred dollars for something that couldn't do what they expected. A president's lies can have much more damaging consequences, as we have seen with past presidents and are seeing now.
 

Felt

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,982
We've had lying presidents before, not a compulsive lying president. The system was not built to protect itself from a bad actor like Trump. The founding fathers never envisioned we'd get here, and the GOP has made it extra difficult to modify the imperfections over the decades.
Uhhhhhh fuck yes they did. That's why they made the government have checks and balances and didn't give too much power to the executive branch.

But what they didn't envision is what would happen if the other branches didn't do their jobs.

Trump would be getting fucked if the Senate wasn't a disgrace
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
8,737
Uhhhhhh fuck yes they did. That's why they made the government have checks and balances and didn't give too much power to the executive branch.

But what they didn't envision is what would happen if the other branches didn't do their jobs.

Trump would be getting fucked if the Senate wasn't a disgrace
That's true, forgot about that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
965
Konoha
Uhhhhhh fuck yes they did. That's why they made the government have checks and balances and didn't give too much power to the executive branch.

But what they didn't envision is what would happen if the other branches didn't do their jobs.

Trump would be getting fucked if the Senate wasn't a disgrace
They expected people to revolt in cases like trump.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,738
It’s really only punishable by by voters punishing them for it

That system actually worked out ok until recently
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,172
Sydney
Uhhhhhh fuck yes they did. That's why they made the government have checks and balances and didn't give too much power to the executive branch.

But what they didn't envision is what would happen if the other branches didn't do their jobs.

Trump would be getting fucked if the Senate wasn't a disgrace
Starting to think the political designs of these eighteenth century slave owners might not have a shelf life of over two hundred years
 

Megatron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,900
With his penchant for lying, he must have purjured himself at this point, or will soon. We can all hope for that.
 

Felt

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,982
I get what you're saying but there are laws regarding misleading or deceptive advertising and that's harder to prove than plain lying. Sony had to pay up a few years ago because the FTC ruled that their early Vita ads were misleading. The worst thing their deceptive marketing resulted in was people spending a few hundred dollars for something that couldn't do what they expected. A president's lies can have much more damaging consequences, as we have seen with past presidents and are seeing now.
I disagree. I think it's harder to prove a politician is lying beyond a doubt versus deceptive advertising because you have physical facts and reality with the product, what it can do, and what you market it can do...

But politicians don't deal with physical things, they just BS their way through. How do you prove Trump is lying versus being wrong?
 

Mullet2000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,582
Toronto
It's acceptable because the U.S. is a complete mess, politically.

Trump gets away with lying because no one is willing to do anything about it en-mass, simple as that. If the U.S. had France's protesting culture (for example) it would be a different story.

Other politicians put up with it, a lot of the population puts up with it or worse, supports it. The news situation seems like a complete clusterfuck down there as well so that doesn't help (I'm not American so just judging from outside). It's bad.

If the people aren't willing to punish him in big enough numbers, then he isn't going to get punished.
 
OP
OP
Jon Carter

Jon Carter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,709
I disagree. I think it's harder to prove a politician is lying beyond a doubt versus deceptive advertising because you have physical facts and reality with the product, what it can do, and what you market it can do...

But politicians don't deal with physical things, they just BS their way through. How do you prove Trump is lying versus being wrong?
Well, this is today, and it's an objective lie: Trump claims he ‘never meant’ Mexico would directly pay for border wall despite repeatedly saying it

This was two days ago and is also a lie: Pence Says Trump Thought Presidents on TV Were Talking Privately to Him

According to The Washington Post, as of December 30th, In 710 days, President Trump has made 7,645 false or misleading claims.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,004
Why does he have to be impeached to suffer legal consequences?
The question of whether a sitting president can be indicted has never been answered by the Supreme Court. Until and unless they decide it's legal, impeachment remains the remedy for presidential misbehavior.

Once Trump leaves office one way or another, he'll no longer have protection from various federal and state charges.

And it's strange to say "nothing's happening" when many people connected with the campaign have been indicted and/or convicted. His campaign manager currently sits in a cell!
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
6,698
American democracy was built around a basis of good faith assumptions, and Republicans haven't been acting in good faith.

Trump is the symptom of a disease the entire party is riddled with.
 

Taki

Attempt to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,308
because might makes right
 

Felt

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,982
The first example is exactly why it's difficult to punish politicians for lying. Come on. He can just say "ok I tried and I failed now tax payers are going to pay for it" but that's going to disappoint his base so he obviously won't do that but he could if lying was punishable in this context.

Using that example and making lying punishable, it would set a dangerous precedent for future presidents and unsupportive Senate majorities as you can probably imagine how they can spin things in the other direction.
 
OP
OP
Jon Carter

Jon Carter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,709
The first example is exactly why it's difficult to punish politicians for lying. Come on. He can just say "ok I tried and I failed now tax payers are going to pay for it" but that's going to disappoint his base so he obviously won't do that but he could if lying was punishable in this context.

Using that example and making lying punishable, it would set a dangerous precedent for future presidents and unsupportive Senate majorities as you can probably imagine how they can spin things in the other direction.
The lie isn’t that he said Mexico was directly going to pay for it and him failing to deliver on that—broken promises happen all the time. The lie is that he said Mexico was directly going to pay for it then he said he never said that. Where is the grey area here? It’s objectively a lie.
 

ZackieChan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,314
Because if lying was made illegal then every single politician would be in jail. It’s a slippery slope that shouldn’t be tread on.

In an ideal world impeachment would be a good counterbalance to a pathological liar, but the Republicans won’t do that.
According to many posts in this thread, only Republicans lie. Or that's the implication.
I mean as I understand it Trump has likely lied under conditions that are normally illegal.

Nothing's happening. Fuck if I know why.
Which circumstances are those?
And is the Mueller probe, Senate and House investigations, and state investigations "nothing"? Shit doesn't happen immediately. It's not a movie.