Why is constant lying by the president not punishable?

Jon Carter · Jan 10, 2019

All politicians lie, but there's lying and there's LYING ALL THE FUCKING TIME ABOUT STUFF WE KNOW IS TRUE BECAUSE IT WAS SAID IN PUBLIC.
The president of the United States is knowingly misleading the American people every day to get them to support his policies by straight up lying to them. Not spinning, just plain lying. Shouldn't there be a limit to how much you can lie, how big your lies can be, how misleading they can be, when your job is to represent the people you're lying to? What other job is there where you can be caught day in and day out knowingly lying about things to further your agenda and just get to keep your job?

Deleted member 50969 · Jan 10, 2019

We don't have sensible people in the positions that could make a change.....yet. :D

PlanetSmasher · Jan 10, 2019

If Trump was a Democrat, he WOULD be punished for it. Lying is only punishable when it's not a Republican doing it. The GOP is broken beyond saving.

Felt · Jan 10, 2019

People say things to remain in power. Hello. Like every dictator has a book about it

Trigonometrize · Jan 10, 2019

Impeachment is the check on the president. Honesty is not a standard that has any reason to be unique to the chief executive IMO versus other elected officials, so I don't think there needs to be any additional checks specifically on lying beyond Congress and elections. Maybe you want to argue for shorter presidential terms?

dots · Jan 10, 2019

Republicans are amoral. That's all it boils down to.

Powdered Egg · Jan 10, 2019

He's not lying under oath so he's got unlimited continues.

And to answer your last question- the news, the school education system, and religious preachers all lie a lot or at minimum purposefully mislead and omit.

Midramble · Jan 10, 2019

Felt said:
People say things to remain in power. Hello. Like every dictator has a book about it

Great book by the way

Felt · Jan 10, 2019

Also, any law regarding "lying" is a slippery slope considering how everyone has different perspectives and all that.

And to answer your last question. Just look at Fox news lol they literally make a killing off deception and spin, but all major US news outlets to some degree mislead people.

For profit news is destroying this country imo

HotHamBoy · Jan 10, 2019

In an ideal world the public would not elect or re-elect a pathological liar.

Trump has lied openly his whole life, he lied constantly through his campaign.

Enough people were cool with that so he won. It would actually be weirder if the people who voted for him suddenly found his lying problematic or impeachable.

Felt said:
Also, any law regarding "lying" is a slippery slope considering how everyone has different perspectives and all that.

Empirical facts are not perspectives

Invisible Cities · Jan 10, 2019

In retrospect our checks and balances are kind of a joke.

PopsMaellard · Jan 10, 2019

Felt said:
Also, any law regarding "lying" is a slippery slope considering how everyone has different perspectives and all that.

I see what you're getting at, but you can't have a perspective on a fact. That's kind of what OP was saying; Trump doesn't do the perspective thing, he just straight up unabashedly lies about objective facts that can be easily and immediately disproven with public information. A lot of what he says can't be written off as a different take or perspective, it just simply isn't true even through an extremist conservative lens.

Felt · Jan 10, 2019

PopsMaellard said:
I see what you're getting at, but you can't have a perspective on a fact. That's kind of what OP was saying; Trump doesn't do the perspective thing, he just straight up unabashedly lies about objective facts that can be easily and immediately disproven with public information. A lot of what he says can't be written off as a different take or perspective, it just simply isn't true even through an extremist conservative lens.

I mean... You can though lol. People can look at the US-Mexico border and see a normal border or see a crisis depending on their perspective. I'm stretching here but there's always a way to twist his lies by saying they are an opinion or whatever.

Wracu · Jan 10, 2019

Republicans want to be lied to. Deep down they know it is all bullshit. Buy why care? It makes them feel good. Reality will never actually agree with them, so what other option is there?

And in this country, no matter how bad it gets for them, black and brown and lgbtq people will always have it worse. And that's just swell!

Also America is like totally invincible so it can never go totally sideways right???

Sokrates · Jan 10, 2019

Because if lying was made illegal then every single politician would be in jail. It's a slippery slope that shouldn't be tread on.

In an ideal world impeachment would be a good counterbalance to a pathological liar, but the Republicans won't do that.

Felt · Jan 10, 2019

HotHamBoy said:
Empirical facts are not perspectives

It's rare that politicians use empirical facts though

Jam · Jan 10, 2019

Ichthyosaurus · Jan 11, 2019

We've had lying presidents before, not a compulsive lying president. The system was not built to protect itself from a bad actor like Trump. The founding fathers never envisioned we'd get here, and the GOP has made it extra difficult to modify the imperfections over the decades.

Jon Carter · Jan 11, 2019

Felt said:
any law regarding "lying" is a slippery slope considering how everyone has different perspectives and all that.

I get what you're saying but there are laws regarding misleading or deceptive advertising and that's harder to prove than plain lying. Sony had to pay up a few years ago because the FTC ruled that their early Vita ads were misleading. The worst thing their deceptive marketing resulted in was people spending a few hundred dollars for something that couldn't do what they expected. A president's lies can have much more damaging consequences, as we have seen with past presidents and are seeing now.

Sunster · Jan 11, 2019

Trump supporter: lol name one lie.

Felt · Jan 11, 2019

Ichthyosaurus said:
We've had lying presidents before, not a compulsive lying president. The system was not built to protect itself from a bad actor like Trump. The founding fathers never envisioned we'd get here, and the GOP has made it extra difficult to modify the imperfections over the decades.

Uhhhhhh fuck yes they did. That's why they made the government have checks and balances and didn't give too much power to the executive branch.

But what they didn't envision is what would happen if the other branches didn't do their jobs.

Trump would be getting fucked if the Senate wasn't a disgrace

Ichthyosaurus · Jan 11, 2019

Felt said:
Uhhhhhh fuck yes they did. That's why they made the government have checks and balances and didn't give too much power to the executive branch.

But what they didn't envision is what would happen if the other branches didn't do their jobs.

Trump would be getting fucked if the Senate wasn't a disgrace

That's true, forgot about that.

PixelatedProphet · Jan 11, 2019

Felt said:
Uhhhhhh fuck yes they did. That's why they made the government have checks and balances and didn't give too much power to the executive branch.

But what they didn't envision is what would happen if the other branches didn't do their jobs.

Trump would be getting fucked if the Senate wasn't a disgrace

They expected people to revolt in cases like trump.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

nasirum · Jan 11, 2019

Because lying isn't illegal as President, apparently?

Soul Skater · Jan 11, 2019

It's really only punishable by by voters punishing them for it

That system actually worked out ok until recently

danm999 · Jan 11, 2019

Felt said:
Uhhhhhh fuck yes they did. That's why they made the government have checks and balances and didn't give too much power to the executive branch.

But what they didn't envision is what would happen if the other branches didn't do their jobs.

Trump would be getting fucked if the Senate wasn't a disgrace

Starting to think the political designs of these eighteenth century slave owners might not have a shelf life of over two hundred years

Megatron · Jan 11, 2019

With his penchant for lying, he must have purjured himself at this point, or will soon. We can all hope for that.

Felt · Jan 11, 2019

Jon Carter said:
I get what you're saying but there are laws regarding misleading or deceptive advertising and that's harder to prove than plain lying. Sony had to pay up a few years ago because the FTC ruled that their early Vita ads were misleading. The worst thing their deceptive marketing resulted in was people spending a few hundred dollars for something that couldn't do what they expected. A president's lies can have much more damaging consequences, as we have seen with past presidents and are seeing now.

I disagree. I think it's harder to prove a politician is lying beyond a doubt versus deceptive advertising because you have physical facts and reality with the product, what it can do, and what you market it can do...

But politicians don't deal with physical things, they just BS their way through. How do you prove Trump is lying versus being wrong?

ryutaro's mama · Jan 11, 2019

Sunster said:
Trump supporter: lol name one lie.

Yup.

Mullet2000 · Jan 11, 2019

It's acceptable because the U.S. is a complete mess, politically.

Trump gets away with lying because no one is willing to do anything about it en-mass, simple as that. If the U.S. had France's protesting culture (for example) it would be a different story.

Other politicians put up with it, a lot of the population puts up with it or worse, supports it. The news situation seems like a complete clusterfuck down there as well so that doesn't help (I'm not American so just judging from outside). It's bad.

If the people aren't willing to punish him in big enough numbers, then he isn't going to get punished.

dots · Jan 11, 2019

nasirum said:
Because lying isn't illegal as President, apparently?

Bill Clinton got impeached for it, so...

Morrison71 · Jan 11, 2019

The funny thing is this dude got elected because he was different and not a lying politician....

Jon Carter · Jan 11, 2019

Felt said:
I disagree. I think it's harder to prove a politician is lying beyond a doubt versus deceptive advertising because you have physical facts and reality with the product, what it can do, and what you market it can do...

But politicians don't deal with physical things, they just BS their way through. How do you prove Trump is lying versus being wrong?

Well, this is today, and it's an objective lie: Trump claims he 'never meant' Mexico would directly pay for border wall despite repeatedly saying it

This was two days ago and is also a lie: Pence Says Trump Thought Presidents on TV Were Talking Privately to Him

According to The Washington Post, as of December 30th, In 710 days, President Trump has made 7,645 false or misleading claims.

nasirum · Jan 11, 2019

dots said:
Bill Clinton got impeached for it, so...

I mean as I understand it Trump has likely lied under conditions that are normally illegal.

Nothing's happening. Fuck if I know why.

Bad_Boy · Jan 11, 2019

Put him under oath and let him ramble on.

shintoki · Jan 11, 2019

Can't lie if you believe the lie - Trump and the entire GOP

Ichthyosaurus · Jan 11, 2019

dots said:
Bill Clinton got impeached for it, so...

He was acquitted.

Autodidact · Jan 11, 2019

nasirum said:
Nothing's happening. Fuck if I know why.

Because (1) we just now attained the power to impeach him

and

(2) you get one shot. One. Speaker Pelosi will not make her caucus take that incredibly grave vote unless she has enough - say, from the Mueller report - to pressure the Senate.

nasirum · Jan 11, 2019

Autodidact said:
Because (1) we just now attained the power to impeach him

and

(2) you get one shot. One. Speaker Pelosi will not make her caucus take that incredibly grave vote unless she has enough - say, from the Mueller report - to pressure the Senate.

Why does he have to be impeached to suffer legal consequences?

Autodidact · Jan 11, 2019

nasirum said:
Why does he have to be impeached to suffer legal consequences?

The question of whether a sitting president can be indicted has never been answered by the Supreme Court. Until and unless they decide it's legal, impeachment remains the remedy for presidential misbehavior.

Once Trump leaves office one way or another, he'll no longer have protection from various federal and state charges.

And it's strange to say "nothing's happening" when many people connected with the campaign have been indicted and/or convicted. His campaign manager currently sits in a cell!

Laser Man · Jan 11, 2019

You have enough people supporting your lie, it might aswell be the truth!

Deleted member 8674 · Jan 11, 2019

Because if he and his administration keep repeating the lie and people believe it then it's not a lie anymore.

Imperfected · Jan 11, 2019

American democracy was built around a basis of good faith assumptions, and Republicans haven't been acting in good faith.

Trump is the symptom of a disease the entire party is riddled with.

Taki · Jan 11, 2019

because might makes right

Felt · Jan 11, 2019

Jon Carter said:
Well, this is today, and it's an objective lie: Trump claims he 'never meant' Mexico would directly pay for border wall despite repeatedly saying it

This was two days ago and is also a lie: Pence Says Trump Thought Presidents on TV Were Talking Privately to Him

According to The Washington Post, as of December 30th, In 710 days, President Trump has made 7,645 false or misleading claims.

The first example is exactly why it's difficult to punish politicians for lying. Come on. He can just say "ok I tried and I failed now tax payers are going to pay for it" but that's going to disappoint his base so he obviously won't do that but he could if lying was punishable in this context.

Using that example and making lying punishable, it would set a dangerous precedent for future presidents and unsupportive Senate majorities as you can probably imagine how they can spin things in the other direction.

nemoral · Jan 11, 2019

Because the people whose responsibility it is to punish him refuse to do so.

ps3ud0 · Jan 11, 2019

Unfortunately the average American doesn't seem to value the truth...

ps3ud0 8)

Jon Carter · Jan 11, 2019

Felt said:
The first example is exactly why it's difficult to punish politicians for lying. Come on. He can just say "ok I tried and I failed now tax payers are going to pay for it" but that's going to disappoint his base so he obviously won't do that but he could if lying was punishable in this context.

Using that example and making lying punishable, it would set a dangerous precedent for future presidents and unsupportive Senate majorities as you can probably imagine how they can spin things in the other direction.

The lie isn't that he said Mexico was directly going to pay for it and him failing to deliver on that—broken promises happen all the time. The lie is that he said Mexico was directly going to pay for it then he said he never said that. Where is the grey area here? It's objectively a lie.

ZackieChan · Jan 11, 2019

Sokrates said:
Because if lying was made illegal then every single politician would be in jail. It's a slippery slope that shouldn't be tread on.

In an ideal world impeachment would be a good counterbalance to a pathological liar, but the Republicans won't do that.

According to many posts in this thread, only Republicans lie. Or that's the implication.

nasirum said:
I mean as I understand it Trump has likely lied under conditions that are normally illegal.

Nothing's happening. Fuck if I know why.

Which circumstances are those?
And is the Mueller probe, Senate and House investigations, and state investigations "nothing"? Shit doesn't happen immediately. It's not a movie.

Sobriquet · Jan 11, 2019

Ichthyosaurus said:
He was acquitted.

No, he was impeached. He wasn't removed, though.

Why is constant lying by the president not punishable?

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