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Why is Days Gone a tired zombie premise in the minds of many when Resident Evil 2 is not?
- Thread starter Robin
- Start date
Yeah this is it really, summed up better than what I said. Since I posted I think people are examining far too much what is/isn't derivative as far as zombie games are concerned when that is missing the forest for the trees in my opinion. We won't know for sure until the end of this week obviously but DG has looked mediocre at least more than RE2 looked before its launch and indeed RE2 was far from mediocre.
Missing the forest would be ignoring that DG has quite a few different enemies, not only hordes, that interact witch each other that can be used to your advantage, that there are different weapons also to give you options. It also seems to have weather affect gameplay, what you or enemies can do.
Everything oriented to have options in gameplay.
It is like saying botw is mediocre because it has you standard white blonde guy on a horse, your generic forest, desert, mountain locations, and not exactly advanced combat.
However i understand people are waiting for execution, once the game releases, if those premises are well done and offer a compelling game. But that is one thing, and the downplaying is another one
Dead Space 1 and 2. You've already named TEW1 and TEW2 as well as TLoU. Where are all these open world games that follow the formula that you're referring to? I can think of Horizon and Days Gone. Can think of many more that fit that framework, maybe now Assassin's Creed an FarCry but I'm not sure if those are ones that fit the framework but rather feature some elements.
Does Dead Space 1+2, RE4+5+REV1&2, TEW1+2, and TLoU not exist? RE2 is not what I would consider a pure horror game, Alien or Outlast are much purer in that sense. RE2 is more of an action survival game with horror elements. Just my opinion though.
Not in the way they pose a threat in Remake. There's a very tangible threat to the zombies in REmake because unlike a lot of other games, you can't fall back on versatile melee weapons or in the case of the last of us, your fists depending on the type of zombie. Days Gone for example, relies on a hoard system, single enemy damage is lower by default.
These are incredibly commonplace elements in open world games these days, so much so that an open world game without these kinds of elements sticks out and feels kinda behind the times.
I think it's so easy to overlook what REmake 2 did for the "zombie outbreak" premise after its release, but i still can feel the energetic burst of enthusiasm whenever they showed the game for the first few times.
The truth is: Zombies haven't been scary for quite a while now.
If a content creator tries to make them menacing, it usually goes against the classic premise of "how can you kill what's already dead", with slow, decomposing and unstopabble undead creatures. It's more about extremely violent, more intelligent, capable and the "strong in hordes" archetype for the modern take of actual zombies.
The 2019's interpretation of this classic and simply, overused, trope was nothing nothing short of brilliance.
I've said this before, but while i do prefer the original REmake over the second game (for very specific and different reasons), i wouldn't think twice before saying that this new version of RE2 is the best zombie title ever made, in the sense that it has by far the very best portrayal of the classic "living dead" without hesitation.
Just considering the amount of attention to detail in their models, care and complexity within the animation work, all the satisfying feedback with the cutting edge real-time damage system, the noises they make, how they play dead and won't stop even without several limbs, just wow. They simply made the slow and usually badly used concept of zombies the most unique, and refreshing part of the game, that's kinda nuts. To consider that the classic undead trope can be scary again, it's goddamn impressive.
The truth is: Zombies haven't been scary for quite a while now.
If a content creator tries to make them menacing, it usually goes against the classic premise of "how can you kill what's already dead", with slow, decomposing and unstopabble undead creatures. It's more about extremely violent, more intelligent, capable and the "strong in hordes" archetype for the modern take of actual zombies.
The 2019's interpretation of this classic and simply, overused, trope was nothing nothing short of brilliance.
I've said this before, but while i do prefer the original REmake over the second game (for very specific and different reasons), i wouldn't think twice before saying that this new version of RE2 is the best zombie title ever made, in the sense that it has by far the very best portrayal of the classic "living dead" without hesitation.
Just considering the amount of attention to detail in their models, care and complexity within the animation work, all the satisfying feedback with the cutting edge real-time damage system, the noises they make, how they play dead and won't stop even without several limbs, just wow. They simply made the slow and usually badly used concept of zombies the most unique, and refreshing part of the game, that's kinda nuts. To consider that the classic undead trope can be scary again, it's goddamn impressive.
For me its the variation in the enemy design even with it being a remake. Like look at Mr.X next to the licker or next to Birkin, there is just more interesting designs that are not considered zombies at that point in comparison with what ive seen of Daysgone (and no an infected bear is not interesting).
Not always, and even less well executed that is meaningful to have different gameplay approaches.
Having weather impact, weapons, enemy behaviour and different types, and make all those things interact is not that common, but isolated usually.
Don't know if DG will succeed there, but i think that is what they are trying to do, a more organic openworld. We will see.
Because they are almost completely different game genres. The market is flooded with open world action games and a lot of them feature zombies. Yes, Days Gone is a bit different from the open-world multiplayer zombie survival games, but it shares a lot of similarities with them.
Comparatively there are very few games like Resident Evil and there hasn't been a game in the style of Resident Evil 2 in a long time therefore it's a fresher experience to players, despite being a remake.
Comparatively there are very few games like Resident Evil and there hasn't been a game in the style of Resident Evil 2 in a long time therefore it's a fresher experience to players, despite being a remake.
Didn't played the TEW games, but anything else listed is completely different of the classic RE notion of survival horror's item management + level design + puzzles.
I wouldn't say classic REs or RE2 remake are pure horror either, and i agree that Alien or Outlast do this pure horror job better. That's the thing, the classic survival horror Capcom style are not exactly horror, it's another league entirely, and RE2 remake was the first game in almost 2 decades to nail this design notion and even improve it in some areas. RE7 had some of it but doesn't even compare.
Days Gone might have a really great story too, with interesting characters. Some people might not like how Deacon looks but it doesn't mean he won't be an interesting character, along with his story, losing his wife and what happened to her ect
RE2 is a remake of a loved game, it doesn't come as tired because it has the benefit of being a re-imagining of a game from an era where the genre was new.
Days Gone from afar looks like a knockoff of Last of us that is coming shortly before the actual sequel to The last of Us comes out, so from a general audience people look at it and go "why would i get this when TLOU 2 i coming soon?"
Days Gone from afar looks like a knockoff of Last of us that is coming shortly before the actual sequel to The last of Us comes out, so from a general audience people look at it and go "why would i get this when TLOU 2 i coming soon?"
I'm actually more interested in why are there people trying to convince this forums that Days Gone will be a thing.
Like, we (in a huge generalization) love Platinum games and mock Ubisoft open world games to the point of both things being almost a meme. Platinum games don't sell at all and Ubisoft games sell millions without effort; I think it's pretty much established that we aren't the audience for games like Days Gone yet for some reason some people feel appalled by that.
The game will sell like pancakes when it's released, just don't expect high praise for it here.
Like, we (in a huge generalization) love Platinum games and mock Ubisoft open world games to the point of both things being almost a meme. Platinum games don't sell at all and Ubisoft games sell millions without effort; I think it's pretty much established that we aren't the audience for games like Days Gone yet for some reason some people feel appalled by that.
The game will sell like pancakes when it's released, just don't expect high praise for it here.
Maybe you should respect that people in this place may like Ubi games , and praise them,and dislike Platinum or From games. Also Nintendo games sell millions without effort and are well received here, so it is nothing impossible.
I'm fact you don't need to mock a game you don't like. Is quite embarrassing really.
I dont think anyone thought that this AAA Sony game wasnt going to sell well, its just not a very interesting idea regardless of sales.
This still proves that such "lack of interest" thing in zombie games is just a bubble (and this is the point of the thread, not the quality of the game)
Agreed, be aware that people have different opinions and some of us don't wanna participate in viral marketing stuff like changing icons or spamming simply because some games are not for everybody.
Wow, one of the most bizarre thing i heard this year. I also think that the reveal kinda tried to surf on the last of us peak, and some of the audience where turned off by that.
There was a bunch of people who hated on Nintendo daring to release multiple 2D platformers on 3DS and Wii U even though I played half of these and found them different. And even I thought some were not worth checking out.
I think DG is my equivalent of perception of Chibi-Robo Zip Lash by someone who hates platformers, though more on thematic level. There's a big bunch of zombie games, it's safe to say each one has its own gimmicks. DG's only unique selling point is, from what I gather, systems interactions, which doesn't sound easy to make fun. RE2 remake is based on something people already liked, even if I did not, so I can see its point already.
Speaking of points:
Incorrect. It was pointed multiple out it's a bubble, but the point of the thread seems to be its internal mechanics, not its reach.
I think DG is my equivalent of perception of Chibi-Robo Zip Lash by someone who hates platformers, though more on thematic level. There's a big bunch of zombie games, it's safe to say each one has its own gimmicks. DG's only unique selling point is, from what I gather, systems interactions, which doesn't sound easy to make fun. RE2 remake is based on something people already liked, even if I did not, so I can see its point already.
Speaking of points:
Incorrect. It was pointed multiple out it's a bubble, but the point of the thread seems to be its internal mechanics, not its reach.
How so? TLoU2 hadn't even been announced by the team Days Gone was revealed and TLoU itself had been released years prior, even including the Remaster. This theory doesn't really add up.
Resident Evil 2 was a breath of fresh air after getting so used to being a one man zombie slaying machine. Low Health, Low Ammo, and no guarantee you'll get lucky and kill your enemies. Those types of games are rare nowadays.
I don't know enough about Days Gone but from what I've seen just the sheer numbers of enemies the game will be much more predicable with how it handles and that's not as exciting.
I don't know enough about Days Gone but from what I've seen just the sheer numbers of enemies the game will be much more predicable with how it handles and that's not as exciting.
.
My disinterest not reflecting the mass market's reaction isn't lost on me with Days Gone.
It isn't nostalgia for me, because I never played RE2 on PS1 back in the day. RE2 is everything I wanted from it. Scary, tense, slow, very limited item management, linear, brilliant interconnected level design, boss fights and fun gunplay in my eyes.
Days gone just makes me want to sleep. the boring looking open world, the boring looking protagonist, crafting etc. The horde system doesn't do anything for me.
Days gone just makes me want to sleep. the boring looking open world, the boring looking protagonist, crafting etc. The horde system doesn't do anything for me.
Well, Robin said that explicitly
Edit: I'm talking about "zombie games are played out" thing
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Is there any game, not an RTS, that's accomplishing what Days gone is doing with crowd/horde AI?
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Honestly? Because it's an exclusive.
State of Decay 2, Sea of Thieves, Sunset Overdrive, Titanfall 1 suffered a lot of unfair criticism as well, the only difference is that they were for Xbox.
There is obviously some advantages to being exclusive. One of the disadvantages is that people usually are considerably more harsh on their criticism when your game is in a platform that they aren't engaged or don't even own.
State of Decay 2, Sea of Thieves, Sunset Overdrive, Titanfall 1 suffered a lot of unfair criticism as well, the only difference is that they were for Xbox.
There is obviously some advantages to being exclusive. One of the disadvantages is that people usually are considerably more harsh on their criticism when your game is in a platform that they aren't engaged or don't even own.
At then end of the day, I think people are often not good at explaining themselves, or just don't feel like elaborating on things or thinking about them hard enough to explain themselves.
What I mean is, clearly the "zombie" part, on its own, isn't an issue. RE2 gets praised a lot, and so does the last of us. And people are super excited for the last of us 2. Despite people complaining about zombie fatigue, that's not really what it's about and never has been. It's always just about what you do with the zombies. It's all about context. Always is. Imagine if, for whatever crazy reason, the next 3D Mario game was themed around zombies. Now obviously that isn't going to happen, but if it did, do you think people would have "zombie fatigue" with that? Unlikely given the context of it would be so weird and different from anything we've seen from both Mario and zombie fiction. It would essentially become original by putting two relatively unoriginal concepts together.
Now, sure, they may be some people out there that truly are over zombies and will never enjoy another piece of zombie fiction again, but it's gonna be very rare and very unlikely. If you've ever enjoyed something that had zombies in it, odds are you can do it again given the right context.
So the context of Days Gone is that it just looks generic for some people. It uses its zombies in a specific way that is well trodden, its gameplay and world design are following modern trends, and it looks similar to other zombie fiction aesthetically as well. RE2 didn't have those issues. It just had some zombies in it, but everything else is relatively unique for how games often work these days. It's world/level design isn't something we see as much of now as we used to, its tone was a combination of scary and campy, and the zombies themselves work quite differently to a lot of what we see these days.
What I mean is, clearly the "zombie" part, on its own, isn't an issue. RE2 gets praised a lot, and so does the last of us. And people are super excited for the last of us 2. Despite people complaining about zombie fatigue, that's not really what it's about and never has been. It's always just about what you do with the zombies. It's all about context. Always is. Imagine if, for whatever crazy reason, the next 3D Mario game was themed around zombies. Now obviously that isn't going to happen, but if it did, do you think people would have "zombie fatigue" with that? Unlikely given the context of it would be so weird and different from anything we've seen from both Mario and zombie fiction. It would essentially become original by putting two relatively unoriginal concepts together.
Now, sure, they may be some people out there that truly are over zombies and will never enjoy another piece of zombie fiction again, but it's gonna be very rare and very unlikely. If you've ever enjoyed something that had zombies in it, odds are you can do it again given the right context.
So the context of Days Gone is that it just looks generic for some people. It uses its zombies in a specific way that is well trodden, its gameplay and world design are following modern trends, and it looks similar to other zombie fiction aesthetically as well. RE2 didn't have those issues. It just had some zombies in it, but everything else is relatively unique for how games often work these days. It's world/level design isn't something we see as much of now as we used to, its tone was a combination of scary and campy, and the zombies themselves work quite differently to a lot of what we see these days.
just watch the 10 minutes e3 2017 trailer of days gone and you can see 2 unique things that you can't do or can't see in most if not all the other open world games, and that's just one trailer, the talks about re2 being more innovative then days gone or days gone being yet another open world games without anything new is just plain false or spread by people that where never really interested in the title from the beginning.
tell me another 5 open world games were enemies kill each other for self-preservation or when you can weaponize an horde of enemies against other enemies and we can have a constructive discussion...
the entire eco-system with all the variables is more than enough for days gone to says something new in the genre. (if all this system are gonna work well together)
(sorry for my english)
tell me another 5 open world games were enemies kill each other for self-preservation or when you can weaponize an horde of enemies against other enemies and we can have a constructive discussion...
the entire eco-system with all the variables is more than enough for days gone to says something new in the genre. (if all this system are gonna work well together)
(sorry for my english)
Fanboys mostly, for some reason people forget that this is a niche site and its ok to not like the latest AAA game. Like days gone looks like a solid 75-80 meta game, but it's not really doing anything special.
So you think the Pacific Northwest is a boring looking region of the world? It's got to be ones of the most naturally beautiful parts of the world, and it's barely ever been touched on in games which means that it has the kind of world that should be fresh to players. I would love to know what you think of normal everyday people if you think an out-of-the-ordinary person like Deacon St. John looks boring. Joel from The Last of Us looks more ordinary and uninspired in his design than Days Gone's protagonist, and nobody gives a shit about that as a reason to dismiss the game, and same goes for the crafting.
I'm guessing the takeaway from your comment is, don't aim for realism. Realism is boring.
Well why do you think people may not like days gone but are interested in/like last of us 1/2?
people were crying about zombies being played out before TLOU came out. and they were crying about 'narrative' 'cinematic' games and they were crying about sony games, they've always been crying and to say that they weren't is rewriting history.
The difference is that DG has mostly just looked incredibly generic or devoid of an interesting personality. Sony Bend has made some great games so if I see some good reviews from reviewers I like I'll give it a shot but I haven't seen anything from this game that has made me want to play it at all. It has many apparent inspirations but none of them seem to be anything I'm interested in. It may be more original than RE2 but it's also just not as interesting (at least for me).
Having said that, comparing DG to RE2 seems unfair for DG as I'm of the opinion that an open world game like DG will never have the personality and atmosphere of a linear game like RE2. I'm not even an open world game hater but I just think that's an inherent truth because of the way games are made. Damn near every moment of RE2 remake just oozes personality and atmosphere to a degree that I don't know I've ever seen from an open world game.
Having said that, comparing DG to RE2 seems unfair for DG as I'm of the opinion that an open world game like DG will never have the personality and atmosphere of a linear game like RE2. I'm not even an open world game hater but I just think that's an inherent truth because of the way games are made. Damn near every moment of RE2 remake just oozes personality and atmosphere to a degree that I don't know I've ever seen from an open world game.
Who are "people", and why are putting putting words in my mouth.....hell what are you talking about.