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Why is fascism spreading across the world in the 2010s?
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
A combination of many factors. Cutbacks in education being an important one. The 2008 financial crisis being another. Not that good ole economic anxiety is an excuse for the vile racist shit you see posted daily, but it and enormous economical disparity created a set of circumstances were its easier for demagogues to play on fears of those hit hardest by economic woes, the fact they are so susceptible to anti intellectual and racist rhetoric is a clear sign their education has failed them. The rise of social media only exacerbates the issues.
Another suspicion I have is that a good 65% of people simply always have been shit with a very thin veneer of humanity. It really shouldn't be this hard for so very many to not be such fucking assholes about everything.
Another suspicion I have is that a good 65% of people simply always have been shit with a very thin veneer of humanity. It really shouldn't be this hard for so very many to not be such fucking assholes about everything.
Literally this as far as I'm concerned. Watch a gaming video on YouTube and you suddenly get linked to a lot of gamer gater style outrage Vida and that kind of shit... I worry for the future with the amount small kids and teenagers are glued to social media, YouTube and the like.
Facebook, Twitter and the rest seem to be doing either nothing, or actually making it worse and people are all living in their bubble so right wingers get more bold and left wingers don't realise how bad it's getting. And sure people are racist and normally decency and conformity had kept those people in check. Now with reinforcement thanks to online and the mainstream media doing an awful job at legitimising the far right (see how often Farage got coverage on the BBC in the UK, or climate science deniers, for instance) stupid people are feeling brave to be fuckers openly these days.
Inequality between the haves and have-nots is growing. That creates large-scale discontent that leads to people voting for people who offer opposition to the "establishment" (even though most still play into their pockets, knowingly or not) and it's always the people in the weakest positions who are blamed & who suffer first.
Also, most people are pretty dumb/resentful/selfish
Also #2, change can be scary, so a lot of people have a predisposition to want to return to the "good old days", no matter how much those days actually suuuuuucked for a lot of people.
Also, most people are pretty dumb/resentful/selfish
Also #2, change can be scary, so a lot of people have a predisposition to want to return to the "good old days", no matter how much those days actually suuuuuucked for a lot of people.
The antithesis of fascism is compassion/vulnerability. Extreme views spread due to a lack of those qualities in the general public as well as a lack of understanding and critical thinking skills that would help you know when/how to spot problematic behavior and deal with it instead of being complacent.
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Just looking for someone to connect the dots on how they can say a referendum for Brexit was based on Fascism.
They asked the people what they wanted, the people spoke. How is that fascism?
Perhaps the people got manipulated, perhaps the people are stupid. but i can not understand how it would be called fascism.
If the PM declared with no vote that the UK was leaving the EU, that i could understand as fascism. but that is not what actually happened.
If the USA is now fascist due to trump, how did he just get his butt kicked in the mid term elections?
I am trying to resist the constant watering down of serious words. They are losing their meaning,
Indeed. Echo chambers are horrible especially when they take the form of news networks.
Even when people do argue (about everything including politics) they usually end with "agree to disagree" or "but I respect your opinion and so you should mine" or "you're arguing with a stranger online trying to Change their opinion lol"
There's no open mindedness or willingness to change
I'd say more with the rise of online presense. Small outlets of racism and bigotry was always on the internet, but the reach was far less. As more and more people came online the ability to spread information also grew. It's a very hand in hand thing because the ability to be so connected really let it go. The real issue was far too many people, not just outlets, dismissing it as if it was the Internet of 1996 where it was just small circles you just needed to ignore. We saw it with GG and we saw it again with pre-Trump presidency alt-right.
Unreglated propaganda spreading through all media channels in completely unfiltered ways, taking advantage of the new technology of the times and people's lack of having come to terms with the new reality said technology presents.
User Banned (Permanent): Rationalising facism, junior account
I don't see anything fascist about Trump or Bolsonaro. Fascism was an ideology which advocated that everything should go to the state. Libertarian governments like these propose the opposite. They want to diminish the size of the state and give more economical freedom to people.
Besides, it's pretty pathetic to label someone you don't like with a name that doesn't even means what you're trying to say.
The way I see it, the world nowadays is taking a turn for so much leftism that is unbearable. It's everywhere, from politics to cinema, videogames, music, etc. It's refreshing to have a more conservative government sometimes.
Besides, it's pretty pathetic to label someone you don't like with a name that doesn't even means what you're trying to say.
The way I see it, the world nowadays is taking a turn for so much leftism that is unbearable. It's everywhere, from politics to cinema, videogames, music, etc. It's refreshing to have a more conservative government sometimes.
Important to consider:
Germany's anti-Jewish laws were directly inspired by America's Black codes -- as were many of the Nazi movement's imagery derived from American nationalist symbols and practices (the pledge of allegiance hand-on-heart used to end with a salute very similar to the one we call the Nazi salute). These were, in effect, laws that tried to enforce slavery under other names (i.e., debt peonage). You could consider the Jim Crow legislation to be a compromise between the American South's interest in continuing to restrict the rights of Black people for economic benefit and those who were attempting to repeal slavery. It is likely of no surprise, even to someone ignorant of American history, that this compromise gave more power to those who wish to subjugate Black folks and keep them in slavery than it did those with any stake in abolition.
The Civil Rights Act wasn't enacted in the US until the 1960s. Even then, while it was built around the agitation of Black Americans specifically, and did improve outcomes for them, one of the more notable effects of the law was broadening the meaning of being white to include groups like Polish, Irish, and Italian immigrants; racism against Black people certainly didn't end, and still continues with little to no repercussion to those who commit offenses in service of the viewpoint to this day.
In response to this, the Republican party immediately shifted strategies to course voters upset by the passing of the CRA; keep this in mind any time you hear about the shit that Irish folks went through in America as uniquely abhorrent and a justification for anti-Black racism -- who benefitted more materially? The ones who were white, obviously. The corollary is of course that the racist attitudes dating back to the era in which Black people were subjugated in order to exploit their labor still existed even then -- and, given the discussion with respect to countering racist attitudes in other posters' families, we have plenty of material evidence to point to the fact that the same people who were thinking that about 50 years ago still think so today.
It's refreshing to see human rights of many demographics being taken away? It's refreshing to see certain demographics killed for what they are? It's refreshing to see people being attacked just because of their skin colour? It's refreshing to see people being labeled terrorists just because of their religion?
Troll ahoy.
When fascists get voted in do they run on taking away rights or do they make lofty promises of Independence and a strong nation standing up for itself against foreigners exploiting it?
Because that's the promise of Trump and Brexit. A lot of the similar promises were made by fascist leaders in the past.
I honestly believe that it is only because the right wing movements, parties, etc are much better at engagement in social media. That obviously includes fake news of all sorts, but they are just that good at pointing the finger at a random enemy and make the people believe in that. It's not a matter of "lying" or "being populist" because the left also could point the finger at something in a reductionist way (say, the banks), but they are just not that good in the online era.
The horror, the absolute horror, of "leftism in video games".
The right capitalised on sentiments of anti-globalism and anti-establishment. The left didn't.
That allowed them to spread their support from not just racists but to those indifferent towards racism as well.
That's why Corbyn is important in the UK. Because even though hes shit, hes the only left wing politician that has that proverbial "trust" and "fight the elite" platform that the indifferent and uneducated (ie: stupid as fuck) baby boomer public admires above all else.
That allowed them to spread their support from not just racists but to those indifferent towards racism as well.
That's why Corbyn is important in the UK. Because even though hes shit, hes the only left wing politician that has that proverbial "trust" and "fight the elite" platform that the indifferent and uneducated (ie: stupid as fuck) baby boomer public admires above all else.
Not at all, you are the one putting words in my mouth.
But you do know that, for example, white people are being killed and losing their properties in South Africa, don't you? And that hundreds of thousands of christians die every year just because they believe in their religion?
I didn't see any democrats trying to fight against that. Besides, you don't have to label someone as a terrorist because of a religion, but you should investigate someone who tries to enter your country, regardless of wherever they come.
Racists don't like being called racists either. If you vote for politicians who/politic stances that push very fascist agendas, you're not exactly opposing fascism either. You're complicit with that shit. Either you voted because of the fascist promises, or you didn't care about the fascist overtones of the Brexit supporting side, which doesn't really make you a whole lot better. Especially when so many of their non-fascist policies could be and were debunked fairly easily.
fascism is authoritarian nationalism. the core of it isn't an economic model. it's the nationalism, desire to make opposition illegal, anti-intellectualism, fetishization of force, and a general opposition to liberalism in the general "liberal democracy" sense. The might-makes-right angle of fascism is perfectly compatible with the fetishization of power- fascist governments are totally fine busting up unions and regulations and letting power concentrate in a wealthy business class.
in fact, from what you just said, you seem to have confused fascism and communism.
we've got trump regularly talking about how journalists are the enemy of the people and non-whites are dangerous criminals.
we had pro-bolsarono forces raid university classrooms to seize history textbooks on the history of fascism, alleging that they were unlawful anti-bolsarono election propaganda.
if you believe the current resurgent right-wing governments to be libertarian, you either you have no clue what the word libertarian means or are ignoring the news and then wondering why people are acting like bad things are happening.
edit: hoooo boy why did i try your posts since this one have gone off the whataboutism deep end.
Why are people immediately throwing the word racism when it comes to nationalism? Racism is not the cause of nationalism, but it's the tool used by nationalist demagogues to get their agenda through. Nationalism almost never begins with racism, but always ends up with using racism as its biggest weapon.
Now, as history has again and again repeated, nationalist sentiments most often emerge (as a majority) through economic and social turmoil, see: Germany after Versailles, Europe after millions of refugees settled without proper planning of accommodation and integration by the European Union. Greece, Brazil, etc after economic recessions.
Now, as history has again and again repeated, nationalist sentiments most often emerge (as a majority) through economic and social turmoil, see: Germany after Versailles, Europe after millions of refugees settled without proper planning of accommodation and integration by the European Union. Greece, Brazil, etc after economic recessions.
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Because that's what Trump supports. They want to shoot asylum seekers, they want to take away human rights from transgender people, they are wrecking the education & healthcare systems for personal profit, Bolsonaro supporters were beating up people opposing Bolsonaro, TRUMP ADMIN PUT FUCKING CHILDREN IN CONSENTRATION CAMPS. You have to be dumb beyond all belief if you ignore all that stuff and think Trump & Bolsonaro have some kind of reasonable political stance to anything. They are fascist. That's not an exaggeration.
White people losing property in South Africa has nothing to do with the rise of white supremacy & fascism in North America & Europe. That's dumb whataboutism of the worst kind.
Leftist people in the west want better education, free or much lower cost healthcare, equal human rights etc. for everyone. What kind of monster do you have to be that you see that as a bad thing and conservative, oppressive & destructive politics of Trump & Bolsonaro as a positive change?
Np. I will pimp that podcast every chance I get. It's fascinating how awful people can be.
I almost wish the mods gave them a couple more posts.
Almost.
A couple of reasons
America voted a black president. Racist America lost their damn mind and started voting racist people into office.
Powerful racists now in office blantantly being racist.
Terrorism and the US's continued and escalated involvement in the Middle East.
War torn middle eastern refugees moving into other countries causing racists and nationalist to lose their damn mind.
Social media giving these assholes a platform
Etc
America voted a black president. Racist America lost their damn mind and started voting racist people into office.
Powerful racists now in office blantantly being racist.
Terrorism and the US's continued and escalated involvement in the Middle East.
War torn middle eastern refugees moving into other countries causing racists and nationalist to lose their damn mind.
Social media giving these assholes a platform
Etc
Certain in the center left did or do still embrace austerity or at least pay lip service to it. Cuomo in New York basically got in on the DLC playbook (although had to shift hard this election), Hollande in France embraced it, Tsipris in Greece was forced into it as his base rejected every other alternative.
It's not the driving force of the left but it still exists high up the chain in center left parties for various reasons.
I feel like what you're talking about is very reasonable when voting for parties - I only care about abortion, even if it also means drone strikes etc - but not reasonable when talking about a single issue referendum.
You're voting for what you want. The motivations of other voters isn't really relevant imo.
Racism and unhappy people who are too easily influenced by their almost all encompassing need to find someone to blame for all of their problems to make their problems easier to cope with.
Right Wing media did a better job at conditioning and manipulating the common everyday folk. Take Britain for example, shit like The Sun, Daily Mail, etc are still the default reading material in like every place you go. Look at America with Fox News, etc, the right just has a better grasp of using the media to their advantage, focusing on people's fears, underlining racism, etc, they use dirty tactics because they know the left would never stoop to that level.
Rising. economic. inequality. You see this red curve?
It should be going down, not up. The more it goes up, the worse the world gets for normal people.
Rich people want to get richer. Only way to do that is to (indirectly) rob the middle class and the poor. Lobbying for lower taxes on millionaires and corporations. Tax havens. forced arbitration. Union busting. Money has to come from somewhere. That somewhere is middle class wages and social safety net.
To accomplish this, rich people have to bribe politicians and use ye olde divide and conquer method. Blame the jews, mexicans, black folk, women, abortionists, whatever. Just invent boogeymen and fan the fires of hatred. If the poor are fighting each other, they're not uniting against the rich.
As a bonus, doing this helps fascist demagogues come to power (Trump, Orban, Bolsonaro, Erdogan, etc. France's Front National has made ridiculous political gains even if they lost the presidential election. Thank god for runoffs). It is of course preferable if the poor can't vote at all, or if their votes are meaningless. To do that, fascism is fabulous for rich people. They don't need democracy or justice. They have private jets and connections. It's better if they can be above the law. It's better if everybody else is desperate so they can be exploited as modern slaves.
Solution? Start taxing people on their net worth, not their income. Eliminate tax havens. Prohibit any sort of sweetheart tax breaks and other such nonsense (Hi Amazon! Go fuck yourself) and generally make rich people NOT buy that 3rd megayacht. 2 Megayachts are enough for anybody...
So...it's math and logic vs bigotry and flagsturbation. Who do you think is going to win? :(
It should be going down, not up. The more it goes up, the worse the world gets for normal people.
Rich people want to get richer. Only way to do that is to (indirectly) rob the middle class and the poor. Lobbying for lower taxes on millionaires and corporations. Tax havens. forced arbitration. Union busting. Money has to come from somewhere. That somewhere is middle class wages and social safety net.
To accomplish this, rich people have to bribe politicians and use ye olde divide and conquer method. Blame the jews, mexicans, black folk, women, abortionists, whatever. Just invent boogeymen and fan the fires of hatred. If the poor are fighting each other, they're not uniting against the rich.
As a bonus, doing this helps fascist demagogues come to power (Trump, Orban, Bolsonaro, Erdogan, etc. France's Front National has made ridiculous political gains even if they lost the presidential election. Thank god for runoffs). It is of course preferable if the poor can't vote at all, or if their votes are meaningless. To do that, fascism is fabulous for rich people. They don't need democracy or justice. They have private jets and connections. It's better if they can be above the law. It's better if everybody else is desperate so they can be exploited as modern slaves.
Solution? Start taxing people on their net worth, not their income. Eliminate tax havens. Prohibit any sort of sweetheart tax breaks and other such nonsense (Hi Amazon! Go fuck yourself) and generally make rich people NOT buy that 3rd megayacht. 2 Megayachts are enough for anybody...
So...it's math and logic vs bigotry and flagsturbation. Who do you think is going to win? :(
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Having wealth doesn't mean you have the ability to pay taxes though.
That's fine. I'll make an exception for farmers sitting on $10M worth of land. Are there any other exceptions you'd like me to make? I'll be happy to.
And then we tax the remaining 99.99% of them, deal?
That's fine too. As long as it doesn't become a huge loophole somehow. I'm happy to accomodate.
It's a bunch of things
Fear of immigrants
Availability of fake news
Laziness of political leadership
The appeal of facism is strength and unity. The people voting for leaders with facist tendencies are afraid of immigrants changing the dominant culture and religion. The people voting for fascists also see liberal leaders as easily corruptible and capitulating. They dont see their leadership as the kind that will stand up or push back against others. This is what seduces people to that side.
The remedy is strong leadership based in appeal to personal individual interest. Immigrants are good because of X. We will make it so that you get Y so that you will have more money. These kind of appeals will get those who would otherwise want fascists in
Fear of immigrants
Availability of fake news
Laziness of political leadership
The appeal of facism is strength and unity. The people voting for leaders with facist tendencies are afraid of immigrants changing the dominant culture and religion. The people voting for fascists also see liberal leaders as easily corruptible and capitulating. They dont see their leadership as the kind that will stand up or push back against others. This is what seduces people to that side.
The remedy is strong leadership based in appeal to personal individual interest. Immigrants are good because of X. We will make it so that you get Y so that you will have more money. These kind of appeals will get those who would otherwise want fascists in
Globalization and late-stage capitalism. As nations further integrate and economic growth relative to income stalls, there will be backlash that will be reigned in by conservative politicians to gain power; nationalist sentiments will be broadcasted to form a large, homogeneous voting base of those who feel left behind by rapidly evolving economies. Social progress also naturally alienates those who are close-minded enough to follow these messages, which makes it easy to use a variety of effective demagogic tactics to further this effort.
In struggling economies like Brazil, stability is sought after through more extreme means, which is how they elected a literal fascist into the government; when people lose faith in a large, complex system, they'll buck inward and push blame outward in an attempt to return to a time that is often associated with economic prosperity, social conservatism, and other comforting, nostalgic features of an idealized society that no longer exists.
In struggling economies like Brazil, stability is sought after through more extreme means, which is how they elected a literal fascist into the government; when people lose faith in a large, complex system, they'll buck inward and push blame outward in an attempt to return to a time that is often associated with economic prosperity, social conservatism, and other comforting, nostalgic features of an idealized society that no longer exists.
The Brexit referendum was a bit of a special case though - given the campaigning got so racist and generally awful, I think it's fair to say that in this case people should have been looking at what they would actually get if their side won. This is why it was so frustrating to debate with Lexiteers at the time - the version of Leave that they want isn't what we are getting, and never was going to be after the way the campaigning centred around FoM so much
I actually agree with your point in the general case, and also that Brexit =/= Facist (although the Fascist groups in the UK have definitely been empowered by it), but in this specific referendum people should totally have considered whether the likely version of Leave bore any relation to the version they want and voted on that basis