Why is NYT posting letters from Trump Supporters

[HStallion]

I like how people still need to have all this evidence to understand Trump voters. Its pretty damn obvious by now why people voted for Trump and why they still support them. I don't need another angry white person telling us about how wronged they are and blah blah yada yada economic anxiety and most certainly not racism motivated this. If you're still confused as to why these people voted for Trump you must be confused why sticking your hand into fire burns.

 

[rambis]

Don't know what that's supposed to mean. All I know is that people love to hide behind "I meant well, there was no racist intent" and "the real racists are out there, leave me alone" while doing everything that normally racists do. Don't think those excuses are valid. A racist that is a racist purely out of selfishness and lack of empathy is still a racist.

Click to shrink...

It means that not everybody that leans right or votes republican is racist...

I actually want you to discuss and break down the platitude of "we should listen to both sides". It's easy to say that and then just walk away. This is a specific thread and you specifically said left leaning people had something to learn from these letters. So I'm asking you what is it that I need to learn here that I didn't know before. It's a simple question that you should have an answer for if you have a valid point.

Click to shrink...

I've said nothing about these letters, I do not know what you are reading. I also haven't walked away anywhere as my replies are showing so you are losing me.

What do you need explained?

Edit: I see I didn't highlight the relevant part of the post I was replying to, even though I thought it was painstakingly obvious. I've fixed that.

 

[Kmonk]

Fundamentally, I have no problem with them posting a comprehensive range of views. It's important to understand how your fellow citizens think and fell- especially so if they are harboring views you believe to be erroneous, mis-informed, or dangerous.

But when I see things like this:

...Tax reform is accomplished...Lastly, the entrenched interests in Washington, which have done nothing but glad-hand one another...

Click to shrink...

It's just depressing. Here's a person that thinks tax reform was some sort of revolutionary move to support the regular citizen, when it was nothing but the most well-represented special interests in the country flexing their influence and enriching themselves at the expense of the majority of Americans.

How do you influence change in someone who's beliefs are diametrically opposed to the truth?

 

[Invisible Cities]

Maybe all those out of work coal miners will kick in for a subscription lol.

 

[Dude Abides]

Predictable stuff. Apparently he's responsible for defeating ISIS and the economy. Local forces and the business cycle aren't things, I suppose. Also he somehow ended political correctness.

 

[HStallion]

Predictable stuff. Apparently he's responsible for defeating ISIS and the economy. Local forces and the business cycle aren't things, I suppose. Also he somehow ended political correctness.

Click to shrink...

Exactly. Nothing new is ever said in these letters with Trump supporters or the interviews done or anything else. Trump is perfect, he'll fix everything or has already done that and if not its the Democrats fault especially that bitch Hillary and that Obama antichrist. Yada yada yada

 

[L Thammy]

It means that not everybody that leans right or votes republican is racist...

Click to shrink...

I can accept that, but this is about Trump. Everyone who votes for a candidate whose key selling points - multiple of them - are firmly rooted on racism is probably a racist. Even if they aren't frothing at the mouth at the sight of blacks or Mexicans or Muslims, they're still happy to excuse a campaign largely aimed at these people because maybe there's also some benefit for these voters tied to it or because of party loyalty, and that's the kind of racism that comes from selfishness and lack of empathy. I can conceive that maybe someone voted for Trump for another reason, like they never listened to anything he said as a candidate and were just a fan of his TV show, but I'm not going to give that benefit of the doubt here.

 

[yogurt]

I don't think it's a bad thing to read these letters, to understand what you are rhetorically trying to combat in the minds of Trump's voters.

Click to shrink...

Bingo. I don't get why some people are so incensed by this. If you actually read the Times coverage day in and day out, they are not doing the "bothsides" thing, but they're also not 100% banishing the voices their Editorial board clearly disagrees with. I fail to see the problem or controversy here.

 

[Opto]

They control every branch of government, we need to hear this forgotten group of powerless people.

 

[UltimateHigh]

Chronicling a Trumper at this point should have ones Journalism credentials revoked.

 

[Bandage]

Bingo. I don't get why some people are so incensed by this. If you actually read the Times coverage day in and day out, they are not doing the "bothsides" thing, but they're also not 100% banishing the voices their Editorial board clearly disagrees with. I fail to see the problem or controversy here.

Click to shrink...

Because this:

The NYT did fetishitze a neonazi into a hardworking man that loves cookies.

Click to shrink...

It's disgusting bullshit and exactly bothsidesism.
These news outlets are stocking the flames of hate as much as Trump is.

"These Nazis and racists that want all brown people dead are just like you and me! Isn't that great?!"
Fuck that.

 

[BernardoOne]

I don't think it's a bad thing to read these letters, to understand what you are rhetorically trying to combat in the minds of Trump's voters.

Click to shrink...

There's no understanding the irrational douchenozzles that are Trump supporters.

They're a good chunk of the voting public.

Ever hear of know thy enemy

Click to shrink...

People already know thy enemy. It's a bunch of irrational dumbshits that are racist as fuck.

 

[Kthulhu]

The only people who'd even take the time to write a letter are the most diehard Trump supporters. Those dissatisfied with him, or people who begrudgingly voted for him are not included in this.

 

[rambis]

I can accept that, but this is about Trump. Everyone who votes for a candidate whose key selling points - multiple of them - are firmly rooted on racism is probably a racist. Even if they aren't frothing at the mouth at the sight of blacks or Mexicans or Muslims, they're still happy to excuse a campaign largely aimed at these people because maybe there's also some benefit for these voters tied to it or because of party loyalty, and that's the kind of racism that comes from selfishness and lack of empathy. I can conceive that maybe someone voted for Trump for another reason, like they never listened to anything he said as a candidate and were just a fan of his TV show, but I'm not going to give that benefit of the doubt here.

Click to shrink...

You're not factually wrong on alot of points here but this line of thinking is why I think we make no progress. Obama gives some fantastic guidance aimed at all of us that I think should be blasted from the mountaintops.

Starts at about 28 mins if the link doesnt work. I recommend listening to his whole reply.

 

[Deleted member 12224]

Because this:


It's disgusting bullshit and exactly bothsidesism.
These news outlets are stocking the flames of hate as much as Trump is.

"These Nazis and racists that want all brown people dead are just like you and me! Isn't that great?!"
Fuck that.

Click to shrink...

NYT guilty of "bothsidesism".

News outlets like NYT are just as bad as Trump.

Come on now.

 

[Deleted member 9135]

"foreign tyrants are afraid"

Seriously, how the fuck do his supporters gauge the feelings of people they dont know?

 

[yogurt]

Because this:


It's disgusting bullshit and exactly bothsidesism.
These news outlets are stocking the flames of hate as much as Trump is.

"These Nazis and racists that want all brown people dead are just like you and me! Isn't that great?!"
Fuck that.

Click to shrink...

I hear you. That article was a mess. But it doesn't invalidate the other 99% of what they write and print.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Where all the interviews of black women when Roy Moore lost?

I mean if we doing both sides

Click to shrink...

I was curious about this and they did have a few articles a day the days preceding/following the election concerning the voter turnout of black/female voters

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/29/us/doug-jones-roy-moore-black-voters.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/opinion/sunday/black-women-leadership.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/opinion/black-voter-turnout-alabama.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/14/...er-alabama-black-women-wonder-whats-next.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/13/us/doug-jones-alabama-black-voters.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/13/us/alabama-women-doug-jones-metoo.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/14/us/blacks-alabama-doug-jones-.html

 

[RedMercury]

They want to give equal voice to all sides, but I don't think getting bogged down in equal representation should be their concern, being objective and unbiased should be their concern over anything else. This is their idealism as an outlet on display.

 

[Netherscourge]

I think this is just bait for Trump to make a Tweet about the NYT.

 

[Inkblots]

Sam Bee has been on a roll.

The NYT should have done what Vox did:

Click to shrink...

CBS one a few months after this gets me heated. The last segment with the ignorant wife that would rather see her husband dead than praise a black man for saving his life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr932RsrE-k

 

[Toxi]

They control every branch of government, we need to hear this forgotten group of powerless people.

Click to shrink...

They're the new counterculture, fighting against oppression by supporting a rich billionaire TV star from New York.

 

[Rayne]

They're the new counterculture, fighting against oppression by supporting a rich billionaire TV star from New York.

Click to shrink...

I will never comprehend this.

Trump is the sterotypical oily salesman from NY and they voted for him anyway proving their own stereotypes of being gullible and stupid as fuck correct. It's hilarious in a fucked up way.

 

[excelsiorlef]

.

Click to shrink...

Yes but these Trump voter accounts are unchallenged

 

[Bandage]

I will never comprehend this.

Trump is the sterotypical oily salesman from NY and they voted for him anyway proving their own stereotypes of being gullible and stupid as fuck correct. It's hilarious in a fucked up way.

Click to shrink...

Because he's as racist as they are.
Despite what people want to tell themselves, this is the main (only?) Reason people continue to vote Republican.

 

[Slayven]

I was curious about this and they did have a few articles a day the days preceding/following the election concerning the voter turnout of black/female voters

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/29/us/doug-jones-roy-moore-black-voters.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/opinion/sunday/black-women-leadership.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/opinion/black-voter-turnout-alabama.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/14/...er-alabama-black-women-wonder-whats-next.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/13/us/doug-jones-alabama-black-voters.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/13/us/alabama-women-doug-jones-metoo.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/14/us/blacks-alabama-doug-jones-.html

Click to shrink...

Now if they did them bi monthly like WWC articles

 

[ahoyhoy]

Now if they did them bi monthly like WWC articles

Click to shrink...

If their turnout stays at record highs we could see that.

We're overloaded with this WWC crap because a lot of these people showed up in 2016 and a lot of other people stayed home. Come the next election cycle we may have another group to focus on.

 

[Slayven]

If their turnout stays at record highs we could see that.

We're overloaded with this WWC crap because a lot of these people showed up in 2016 and a lot of other people stayed home. Come the next election cycle we may have another group to focus on.

Click to shrink...

But Black Women always show up?

 

[Deleted member 4346]

Maybe all those out of work coal miners will kick in for a subscription lol.

Click to shrink...

LOL not bad.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I watched that Sam Bee segment last night and it was fantastic. It really is baffling that people of color got erased from the working class narrative. Well, not that baffling.

 

[Rover]

Yes but these Trump voter accounts are unchallenged

Click to shrink...

Again, they published responses to the letters from readers saying a lot of the same things being said in this thread, and other parts of this forum. I don't think they are going unchallenged.

 

[Silent_but_Deadly]

Who gives a shit what uninformed racist white people think

Click to shrink...

Sorry, but you can't generalize like this. Not every person who voted for trump is racist, uninformed, and white.

 

[ahoyhoy]

But Black Women always show up?

Click to shrink...

Record high for their demographic.

People only care about change.

 

[BWoog]

To heal as a country, we absolutely 100% have to be free of Fox News. Straight up.

 

[HStallion]

Sorry, but you can't generalize like this. Not every person who voted for trump is racist, uninformed, and white.

Click to shrink...

Two out off three ain't bad

 

[Baji Boxer]

Got no problem with this. It's normal for a newspaper to post conflicting opinion letters. If these delusional letters swing things Trump's way, then I think we're already fucked regardless, lol.

 

[hashtagrekt]

Sorry, but you can't generalize like this. Not every person who voted for trump is racist, uninformed, and white.

Click to shrink...

Appreciate this. I've tried to make this point here before, using myself as an example as I am not racist, uninformed, or white. Still, it's very hard to have a conversation when the other side has this type of picture in their head when they talk to you. And then even if you do break through that first line, you meet the second wall of "well you're like 1 of 10 black people who voted for him" or "same skin not kin" type of rhetoric.

As for the topic at hand, sharing the thoughts of fellow Americans so you can see a broad spectrum of views and what priorities people have in their lives seems like a win-win for both sides.

 

[Rover]

To heal as a country, we absolutely 100% have to be free of Fox News. Straight up.

Click to shrink...

I dunno if that's gonna guarantee we heal as a country, but yeah, we would definitely be in a better place without them.

 

[Baji Boxer]

Sorry, but you can't generalize like this. Not every person who voted for trump is racist, uninformed, and white.

Click to shrink...

Yes, they are. Trump's only appeal was his racist tough guy act, or his shallow lies that an informed person would see through rather quickly. I really can't think of a single person I've come across who voted for Trump that wasn't either bigoted or clueless.

 

[WrenchNinja]

There is no value in listening to these people or giving them a platform to speak

 

[BernardoOne]

Sorry, but you can't generalize like this. Not every person who voted for trump is racist, uninformed, and white.

Click to shrink...

You can absolutely generalize just fine. They might not be 100% white, but they are pretty close. And yes, 100% of all the voters are racist and uninformed. That one isn't really up for debate.

 

[FrequentFlyer]

Scenario 1: 50% of the countries' opinion is shunned from any major newspapers -> stop reading those newspapers and get further entrenched in Fox News, facebook fake news, trumps twitter etc
Scenario 2: Throw in some shit like in the OP now and then to give them something and hope they might also read some of the stuff not catered directly to them (them being the closer to the middle people and not hopeless hillbillies)

Result: ???

Would certainly be interesting if you could somehow simulate both scenarios and see what wields the better results. I can see both having advantages and disadvantages and could see both failing.

 

[Deleted member 2625]

You can absolutely generalize just fine. They might not be 100% white, but they are pretty close. And yes, 100% of all the voters are racist and uninformed. That one isn't really up for debate.

Click to shrink...

actually... I would quibble with this. i think the root cause is fear. which informs the racism. but the root is fear. it might be fear of the Other, it might be financial insecurity, but that is the base emotion.

i forget which study it was but when you remove things that people are afraid of, and ask them policy questions in this new "safe" vacuum, they tend to answer a lot more liberally.

 

[Deleted member 15326]

I don't think it's a bad thing to read these letters, to understand what you are rhetorically trying to combat in the minds of Trump's voters.

Click to shrink...

Does anyone really not understand why people voted for Trump by now? It's either
-they hate minorities
-they thought they'd make money somehow and don't care about minorities or competent governance
-they want jobs that are never coming back to come back and are too stupid too realize they're never coming back

News outlets repeatedly showing that is an attempt to justify it. That's why it's so annoying when people say "half the country can't be that stupid/racist"—it is, but the idea is too frightening for some people

 

[Sinneslöschen]

You can absolutely generalize just fine. They might not be 100% white, but they are pretty close. And yes, 100% of all the voters are racist and uninformed. That one isn't really up for debate.

Click to shrink...

yeah but are they "I'm voting Trump because I want to usher in the ethno-state" racist, or "I'm voting Trump because it will help my business with taxes, and abortion is wrong, and who cares if he said mean things about minorities" racist.

I think sometimes people assume that you are putting every single Trump voter into the first category. Which is why you get pushback.

 

[Deleted member 15326]

yeah but are they "I'm voting Trump because I want to usher in the ethno-state" racist, or "I'm voting Trump because it will help my business with taxes, and abortion is wrong, and who cares if he said mean things about minorities" racist.

I think sometimes people assume that you are putting every single Trump voter into the first category. Which is why you get pushback.

Click to shrink...

Is the second category somehow better?

 

[SaintBowWow]

"These Nazis and racists that want all brown people dead are just like you and me! Isn't that great?!"
Fuck that.

Click to shrink...

I strongly disagree that this was the intent of that article. More that it's pretty unsettling/scary that seemingly normal people, maybe even your neighbors could be total monsters.

Much like the anger over these Trump letters, I don't think that the NYT or any other paper publishing opinions like this means that they nescessarily agree or think that they're valid viewpoints.

 

[Sinneslöschen]

Is the second category somehow better?

Click to shrink...

Not in a broad sense, but I might actually attempt to reason with someone using the second reason. Someone with the first reason I would not even engage. I feel that the first reason comes from a place of hate, and the second comes from a place of selfishness and lack of empathy. I have hope that people in the second category could realize what is wrong with their line of thinking.

 

[Armaros]

If their turnout stays at record highs we could see that.

We're overloaded with this WWC crap because a lot of these people showed up in 2016 and a lot of other people stayed home. Come the next election cycle we may have another group to focus on.

Click to shrink...

And yet these type of editorials didn't exist during and after Obama's 2008 and 2012 wins.

I strongly disagree that this was the intent of that article. More that it's pretty unsettling/scary that seemingly normal people, maybe even your neighbors could be total monsters.

Much like the anger over these Trump letters, I don't think that the NYT or any other paper publishing opinions like this means that they nescessarily agree or think that they're valid viewpoints.

Click to shrink...

The author of that Nazi sympathizer piece himself admitted they didn't learn anything new, pushed back on the persons views or actually did anything.

 

[Deleted member 15326]

Not in a broad sense, but I might actually attempt to reason with someone using the second reason. Someone with the first reason I would not even engage.

Click to shrink...

From interactions I've seen and personally had with people in the second category, they usually dig in harder. They think of themselves as better than the first category because they somehow think greed-based indifference to suffering is better than active participation.