What a poorly thought out take lol. You're assuming it's the same people with the same values from 20 years ago speaking out against it just now.
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Why is South Park trending? What did I miss?
- Thread starter Dennis8K
- Start date
Trust me, they're tired of it... But those checks keep clearing
I think these follow-up tweets should be equally noted:
To be clear, this is isn't to absolve Matt & Trey either. I think often times when certain pieces of media get criticized for their cultural impact people get the impression that those pieces are sole party of blame when in reality the audience that became impacted shares the responsibility of not being able to properly parse the show, as well.
To be clear, this is isn't to absolve Matt & Trey either. I think often times when certain pieces of media get criticized for their cultural impact people get the impression that those pieces are sole party of blame when in reality the audience that became impacted shares the responsibility of not being able to properly parse the show, as well.
I don't think this take is particularly strange. Obviously South Park didn't CAUSE anything but it's an insanely popular piece of American media over the last 2 decades, of course it has influenced culture. What do people even think popular culture is?
I grew up on South Park and I turned out fine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm pretty left-wing.
I don't know if these impressionable young kids who became cynical fucks took how the show dealt with issues seriously or what. And is that the creators' fault? I don't know.
All I know is I understood it was a satire and it did me no harm. I also haven't watched it for yonks.
I don't know if these impressionable young kids who became cynical fucks took how the show dealt with issues seriously or what. And is that the creators' fault? I don't know.
All I know is I understood it was a satire and it did me no harm. I also haven't watched it for yonks.
Shit people are shit people. I've watched the show since the first or second season and I turned out a progressive, socially aware person. As did most SP viewers who are Era members now.
I hate these takes that blame satire, badly written or not, for forming apathetic, garbage people. Those people were going to be shit regardless of what they consumed.
If your criticism, however, is that South Park got an issue wrong(like climate change, or their recent awful trans episode) then that's totally valid. Even then I think it's on the viewer to get more informed and not allow South Park to be a source of education, but it's no secret that the show has missed the mark on many occasions(and they shouldn't be given a pass in those instances, of course).
I hate these takes that blame satire, badly written or not, for forming apathetic, garbage people. Those people were going to be shit regardless of what they consumed.
If your criticism, however, is that South Park got an issue wrong(like climate change, or their recent awful trans episode) then that's totally valid. Even then I think it's on the viewer to get more informed and not allow South Park to be a source of education, but it's no secret that the show has missed the mark on many occasions(and they shouldn't be given a pass in those instances, of course).
Also this:
South Park issues rare apology for 'ManBearPig' skewering of Al Gore
Show creators Matt Stone and Trey Parker made amends for a dis that is more than a decade old.www.nbcnews.com
That happened months ago though. It was a funny episode though, people finding out Manbearpig was real but resigned that there was nothing to be done and everyone basically having to beg Al Gore to help them now, and that Manbearpig was the fault of old people who didn't care about future generations because they were having too much fun.
South Park is 23 years old. It isn't some hot new media that out of touch old fogies are whining about; it's criticism from people who have grown up around South Park.
I've noticed this for sports when a game that's ongoing or just finished is trending and nothing near the top of the list has the score or relevant info to the event. Just official accounts with random tweets or people complaining/boasting about the game. It's such a poor way of getting info.
I'd argue that with a few exceptions, South Park has been very left winger for the past three or four years. They had a two part episode criticizing Amazon and frankly praising socialism and unionization. Lots of anti-Trump stuff. Apologizing for ManBearPig. Criticizing the lack of caring about gun violence in the US. The list goes on.
I agree that South Park has spawned some annoying "radical centrists". The same way Rick and Morty has spawned nihilists. Ultimately, we have to hope that people are able to consume entertainment, especially cartoons, and understand that their views should not be gospel.
I started watching South Park when I was ten. I'm super progressive. I think people overestimate the effect that entertainment media has on people.
South Park is a mixed bag. They've been bad on climate change but admitted they were wrong. They were very bad eith transsexual rights, but the highest cultural damage? Nah. It's a messy libertarian leaning satire show not meant to be taken seriously. Compared to Fox News which attempts to be taken seriously and has created a cult that is undermining human rights and American democracy.
It never ends. People love overstating how influential something is so their hate of it seems more justified. Does anyone even how any concrete examples of the effects of South Park?
this. it is part of a larger whole, but at the same time this is essentially a "nature vs nurture" argument.
let's not forget people's parents also affect how they behave...
Made by 2 libertarian white cis hetero males.
It's not a beacon of the left mindset. They are unable to handle a lot of issues without both-siding stuff. Episodes like board girls are terrible, and only exist to give fake arguments to the right against trans people, for example.
That's a product of it's time. Back then Bush has really high approval ratings and there was righteous anger about 911 and it wasn't clear to a lot of people that the bush admin was making shit up. Lately the message has been that Trump is a disaster trolling North Korea to war on twitter and is a horrible human being that has concentration camps. It's not at all boths sides. They picked not Trump.
Way, way more than any media. You bet your ass your average mass shooter grew up with a family that didn't care enough in an area drowning in firearms even though some would try to sell you that video games were the reason.
It is because someone is inserting daredevil's theme to batman new video and it goes viral
I think, with this current crop of kids, we're gonna find out the opposite, with the way youtube has become a cornerstone for them.
We're going to see a youtuber elected president in our lifetimes
This isn't actually the core ideology of the show. It's "don't annoy Trey Parker."
They don't actually have beliefs. They seemed liberal when they lived in a small town, and they switched once they hit Hollywood and the people telling them to do stuff became liberals instead of conservatives. It's never been a smart show. The message was always "stop bugging me."
While this is true, you'll quite often get episodes where awful things in society annoys Trey and Matt because they are socially pretty liberal. Things like gay conversion camps and not allowing gays in boy scouts and such.
Alright, I'm getting kind of bored with you already, so I'm just going to ramble a bit and leave this here.
The reason why edgy shows are celebrated is because they can fall off the edge. It's about risk. We celebrate the show for taking the risk to handle sensitive subjects and the wit to do so while avoiding the potential issues that make that topic a sensitive one.
When you reach the point that you have a nerd squad willing to defend your show for whatever shit it pulls - like, maybe someone suggests that a show that has been praised for its progressive views shouldn't have characters who are centrally stereotypes, or dedicate episodes to mocking minority groups, or whatnot - then your show is not edgy. It's not part of the establishment. It's free to abuse whoever it likes without consequence.
At that point, it shouldn't be celebrated for taking risks, because there isn't any. But there's a big push for that celebration to still happen, because that's the most comfortable state for a comedian to be in; to get all the rewards of being a risk-taker without having to actually spend the energy in mitigating that risk.
There's that fundamental absurdity of you comparing South Park after a quarter of a century of critical praise to Dungeons & Dragons and rock music in their infancy.
Long-running shows like South Park or The Simpsons have fandoms for whom the show is ingrained on their identity. Criticism of the show, no matter how honest or valid, is criticism of the fan's own fragile ego. They become a force that removes all the pressure to improve or do things well because anyone who attacks their beloved show.
There's you demonizing people for the sin of not liking a show that you like.
And it's especially frustrating for members of the groups who supposedly progressive shows champion, because as soon as they find themselves having to acknowledge the fault of showmakers that don't care about them, the fandom that was happy to bask in the praises of being part of the counterculture whirl around and try to repress any dissent against the establishment.
It's the old brigade of people who love to say they're against racism but scream "this is how Trump won" the moment that they're asked to stop being racist themselves. Because ultimately, they're really just self-serving assholes who had no actual loyalty or concern for anyone for themselves.
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Yeah. South Park explains Donald Trump and his brigade of middle-aged and elderly hate mongers who've been spewing their brand of hatred for what feels like eons.
/sarcasm
None of those creatures were raised on South Park that's for sure. Dana Schwartz' take seems like a variant of blaming video games for corrupting the youth of today.
/sarcasm
None of those creatures were raised on South Park that's for sure. Dana Schwartz' take seems like a variant of blaming video games for corrupting the youth of today.
This forum thread is now just a continuation of the twitter thread, bunch a woodwork hot takes arguing against something Dana didn't say while not demonstrating an ounce of understanding of what she actually said.
Which is perhaps about the best we can expect from people taught to think by South Park.
Which is perhaps about the best we can expect from people taught to think by South Park.
There's nothing inherently wrong with political apathy or cynicism.
Anyone who makes that argument very likely holds a belief that if only those people weren't so cynical, they would join my side!
When in fact the opposite may be true.
Trump supporters, neo- (and historical) nazis, suicide bombers -- these people are very highly motivated and engaged. It would be great for everyone if they were a bit more cynical and detached. Have you seen the size of some of those Trump rallies?
Carlin had an old joke, "you show me someone sitting at home, stroking his penis, and I'll show you someone who isn't causing any trouble"
Anyone who makes that argument very likely holds a belief that if only those people weren't so cynical, they would join my side!
When in fact the opposite may be true.
Trump supporters, neo- (and historical) nazis, suicide bombers -- these people are very highly motivated and engaged. It would be great for everyone if they were a bit more cynical and detached. Have you seen the size of some of those Trump rallies?
Carlin had an old joke, "you show me someone sitting at home, stroking his penis, and I'll show you someone who isn't causing any trouble"
I think her take is a bad one that feels like an extension of the blame video games mentality. South Park didn't raise the generations of people who have enabled Donald Trump's rise to wanna-be fascist power. Blaming it feels like a waste of time and diverts attention away from the root causes of much of the world's current social ills.
I think it's okay to acknowledge the kind of attitude that shows like South Park can foster in people while also admitting that it's not the sole cause for why people act the way they do. There's no need to get defensive about your show.
Using mockery as a political tactic predates South Park by a few hundred years, at least (Voltaire). Don't leftists read Rules for Radicals anymore?
There's no need to be so dogmatic about it. I think most fans on Era will admit it has flaws but isn't at all responsible for today's political climate or our disaffected youth. The crushing futility of a failing and dying republic seized by decades of economic strangulation orchestrated by ancient sociopaths is what has made most of us cynical and somewhat defeatist. Saying South Park is even marginally responsible is quite a cheap argument.
Considering it's made by libertarians I'd say that is a very damning statement about American media.
I think it's fair to defend it. Certainly if, like me, it seems erroneous to blame a global trend toward right-wing xenophobia and racism on a show. If anything South Park would be a symptom not the cause.
I scanned through, but was surprised to not see any mention of Team America, the explicit message of which was that the US does, in fact, need to police the world. That the world "needs dicks to fuck assholes to prevent them from shitting on the pussies." This movie came out in the wake of the invasion of Iraq and was a direct rebuke to war critics like Michael Moore and various celebrities. It's a very representative viewpoint of the time. And definitely a conservative one.
I'm glad to hear Matt and Trey have grown in recent seasons (assuming that's the case). But in their heyday, I think that writer has pegged their work correctly. Whether they are partly responsible for boosting a cynical "fuck you for caring" attitude or just a reflection of it is rather beside the point.
I'm glad to hear Matt and Trey have grown in recent seasons (assuming that's the case). But in their heyday, I think that writer has pegged their work correctly. Whether they are partly responsible for boosting a cynical "fuck you for caring" attitude or just a reflection of it is rather beside the point.
Ironically, the point of the episode is that most elections will come down to 2 candidates you don't like much, but you should vote for the one the one you agree with more anyway, because your vote still matters. That and to a lesser degree that shaming people into voting isn't productive.
The episode literally ends with:
Mr. Mackey: [Adding Stan's vote to the tally] Stan's vote bring the total votes for Turd Sandwich to...thirty six! And Giant Douche has...one thousand, four hundred, and ten. Giant Douche still wins!
Stan: Dude, so my vote didn't even really matter!
Randy: Hey! That's not true, Stan.
Sharon: You can't judge the merits of voting on whether or not your candidate won.
Randy: Your vote still mattered.
Garrison: [rushing into the school holding up a shredded PETA shirt] Hey, everybody! They just found all the PETA members murdered at their compound!
Mr. Mackey: What the? They're all dead? Well, that means...
Clyde: That we can go back to being the South Park Cows!
All: Hooray! All right!
Randy: Now your vote didn't matter.
I mean, yeah, it ends with the joke that the status quo has returned, so none of it really mattered, but the message is still pretty clear.
When they brought it up again in the 2016 season, the message was that while both candidates were unappealing (Clinton and Garrison as a Trump stand-in), one was actually prepared to do the job (Clinton), while the other was dangerously unqualified, racist, and was only running for the ego boost and didn't really want to win (Garrison), who people only supported out of a false nostalgic desire to return to a "great America" from the past which never existed. I mean, they had a scene where one of Garrison's memberberries shoots one of the others in the Oval Office and tells them that they're going to make people 'member the real, old stormtroopers, implying that Garrison will literally be bringing Nazis to the White House.
Say what you will about the messiness of that season's plot lines (which definitely did not all come together), but the satire was not subtle.
Reminds me of Roger Ebert's Team America review:
Back when I didn't really think much about politics I found their cartoon exaggerations funny, but I have to say there have been a few times in the last few years that I've been confused by older episodes that take a "both sides" approach (douche bag vs turd sandwich) if not out right argue against totally reasonable outlooks (anti-tobacco industry or global warming). Actually that cigarette episode especially sticks out to me; it's not even one where they pick at both sides, they straight up defend the tobacco industry.
Back when I didn't really think much about politics I found their cartoon exaggerations funny, but I have to say there have been a few times in the last few years that I've been confused by older episodes that take a "both sides" approach (douche bag vs turd sandwich) if not out right argue against totally reasonable outlooks (anti-tobacco industry or global warming). Actually that cigarette episode especially sticks out to me; it's not even one where they pick at both sides, they straight up defend the tobacco industry.
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As ridiculous as it seems, I do think our cultural products have a strong role in diminishing our trust in institutions and politics because our understanding of the moment is precisely filtered and molded by those products. Just think of the role of radio in the emergence of a far right in America. Cartoons, TV shows, and other media that people consume on a daily no doubt have a similar role in amplifying a healthy skepticism of power into a extremely cynical outlook on our civic life.
I don't think people are blaming the entire global trend on SP. It's just one of the fingers in the pie. That said, I don't think it's fair to let it skate by as just a symptom of a larger problem with the way it uses its platform.