I was talking about M2 PCIE, as that’s the perfect form factor and heat imprint for a console. It would be bizarre of them—or anyone in 2020–to use an M2 with a sata connection.
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Why is SSD in PS5 made to look like a game changer? PC’s have had it for decade and it hasn’t made that much difference?
- Thread starter mogster7777
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According to the devs themselves, it in fact was. And you can't compare Spider-Man to Wipeout to draw such a conclusion. Spider-Man unlike Wipeout, is an open world game with far more to draw, render and compute.
A lot of Spider-man's design was limited by the hard drive.
Everyone should watch this talk:
Marvel's Spider-Man: A Technical Postmortem
In this 2019 GDC talk, Insomniac Games' Elan Ruskin discusses the challenges of rapidly growing asset count, and adapting rendering, streaming, and lighting ...
www.youtube.com
Yes, I was just pointing out that M2 is just a form factor not and has nothing to do with performance like many people think.
Obviously the design of the games are different. Wipeout is running at 60fps as well.
Other games like Forza Horizon have to stream a similar amount of data, move faster and, run at 60fps.
If insomniac wanted spidey to move faster they would have done it. Even if they had to use one of the aforementioned creative techniques to give the data time to load. Spider-Man moving speed is based off what works for the game. Not a limitation of the hard drive.
Sure I'll bite.
SUPERCHARGED PC ARCHITECTURE: Said by Sony, not a developer and not about a game.
BLAST PROCESSING: Said by Sega, not a developer and not about a game. By the way this is real, although not used at the time: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-blast-processing-retro-analysis
TILED RESOURCES: Found this: https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2014/01/30/directx-11-2-tiled-resources-enables-optimized-pc-gaming-experiences/ - What exactly am I looking for?
THE CLOUD: Well, the cloud exists, doesn't it? Sure, Crackdown didn't deliver on that, but it surely was meant to create the destruction we saw.
The fact still is, that an SSD (and we don't even know what the custom SSD exactly is is in the PS5/next gen Xbox) is many times faster than a HDD and the games have never been designed around them.
We can argue about the "gamechanger" word, but reducing loading times is always a good thing. Always.
I mean we'll still have loading times of some sort of course but if we can go from 10sec to 3sec for an average loading screen then that's still one hell of a QoL improvement.
And yes halving loading times or more is definitely something that's possible when you double or triple your drive overall speed
I mean we'll still have loading times of some sort of course but if we can go from 10sec to 3sec for an average loading screen then that's still one hell of a QoL improvement.
And yes halving loading times or more is definitely something that's possible when you double or triple your drive overall speed
Forza horizon runs at 30 FPS. Also it doesn't have to process the same amount of data spidey does, it's not even close. The amount of systems going on in spidey is much more complex than FZH, that combined with the HDD speeds limits the movement in the game.
We're talking about a 5400 RPM drive. Take the L.
You were one of those people who said ps3 blu ray discs weren't needed because oblivion on the 360 only uses 6gb on a dvd weren't you.
There were already using tricks to get things done .
There comes a point where you just need better hardware to get things done and we at that point with HDD.
Just like how this gen we move to HDD since Blu ray was to slow.
I should also note that "game changer" is not going to mean the same to everyone and this goes double for the people that have to make games .
Them not having to deal with certain things could be a game changer for them even if it don't effect us much .
Said by the PS4 LEAD ARCHITECT, who also develops games and was referring to all games on the system. And said this multiple times in both casual and technical settings.
Can’t squirm away from this one.
Sega devs said this about plenty of games. And it’s not that it didn’t exist, it’s not the “game changer” first advertised.
You tell me what you are looking for. You are the one trying to split hairs here to make a point.
Again, just as the aforementioned technical hype terms. Plenty of devs in both technical and casual settings have touted the game changing ability of tiles resources. And we see what we got.
It’s not about mere existence or not. Obviously SSD exist and bring improvements. Just as all the rest of the hype terms you looked up. Point is devs take that reality and turn it into hype for the masses.
First part is true, second part is not. Plenty of games have been designed with SSD in mind.
Sure, better hardware is the entire package. Spider-Man on PS4 with all the same hardware except a SSD, would have been the same damn game. Just less loading screens or tricks to distract you while things load.
I agree and that’s mostly what it is. My “game changer” comments were more about a consumer perspective.
You're really grasping at straws here. None of these examples are comparable to a dev simply explaining why they choose for a certain approach due to limitations. It's just dumb to throw everything on the "HYPE!!1!1" pile and just write it all of as bullshit.
Lot of people in this thread acknowledge that upgrading their SSD's has been one of the biggest most noticable improvements they ever experienced. It certainly was for me when I did it with my laptop (late 2011 MacBook, still very fast and no complaints).
If you refuse to believe that this is a literal gamechanger, than that's fine. I think devs will eventually gonna do great thinks with it.
DF also seems to be enthusiastic, which is always good.
You're making the exact same arguments. 'Oblivion is the biggest game and it only uses 6gb. Therefore 50gb is just hype.' Funny you cant see it.
It's game design. Not just faster loading. You can put an SSD in the PS4 now to boost load times drastically but still have the "loading segments" like TLOU stupid water segments or Spidermans train loading screen.
And fucking lie to oher dev at GDC. I never seen something so stupid to say.
So I guess you're on a personal crusade to de-hype people for whatever reason lol
You should really watch that talk I linked to. It's incredible the amount of time, effort, and ingenuity that went into making sure the game worked as it did on a hard drive. That's time, effort, and ingenuity that didn't go into other areas of the game. That's time, effort, and ingenuity they won't have to spend on a PS5 with an SSD.
In the insomniac speech. The hardrive was nowhere near the focus of the reason they made the design choices they did. That talk would have come and gone with the same fanfare as all other tech talks where the devs explain pretty much the exact same thing.
Only reason that talk gets referenced is from Mark Cernys talk to the media which he hyped up the planned SSD in PS5.
SSD have existed for a long time. We’ve known their benefits for a long time. There was no hype, or talks of game changing developer decisions/abilities, etc. until Mark Cerney said it.
SSD in consoles will do what they’ve always done. Faster loading times, less loading screens. Less stalling techniques from devs.
Since QLC has been a thing at least the 660P has been a cheap but reliable (for average pc users) NVME SSD. It's 1GB model regularly been in the $90s range. Just recently someone put up a thread (reddit) that it was on sale for $90 and people started wondering "what's with all these posts for bad deals lately", "This is the normal price."
r/buildapcsales - [SSD] M.2 Intel 660p 1TB - $99
0 votes and 27 comments so far on Reddit
www.reddit.com
For PCIe 4 who knows if the consoles could get that at a affordable bulk buying price. They've surprised people many times with their ability to include expensive stuff in consoles before, even helping to make things standard and bring prices down.
All of this talk is just going to make future information and examples/video demonstrations very interesting. Lies, truth, understatements, what an exciting time. I don't want to go back to console, but this SSD as a base thing has me interested, and I really do hope it gives PC versions of games a reason to have the SSD version as an optional download, but I doubt that would work. Having a smaller download with less or no redundant data would be good for me since I have data caps.
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Nope. Replace dvd with hdd.
"If devs wanted to they can make red dead redemption 2 with dvd, it's simply a design choice and not a limitation of dvd."-You
Nope. Not at all.
Just responding to the dozens of quotes from people bothered by the fact that i dare take a realistic perspective on the topic.
You are trying to make it as if the talk was about Hard drives. It wasn’t. It was about the entire package.
If they had more ram, they could load more stuff at once, therefore reducing the need to stream so much. If they had more CPU the could have increased draw distance. More GPU they could have reduced pop in. Etc etc.
You guys are just using that talk because Mark Cerny uses the game for his PS5 hype talk.
Not a big deal on PC...what am I hearing? The first thing PC gamers talk about after fps/graphics is the fricken load times
Hmm......so that's how an SSD can help games graphically. Wow. It really is a game changer.A lot of Spider-man's design was limited by the hard drive.
Everyone should watch this talk:
Marvel's Spider-Man: A Technical Postmortem
In this 2019 GDC talk, Insomniac Games' Elan Ruskin discusses the challenges of rapidly growing asset count, and adapting rendering, streaming, and lighting ...
Doesn't Horizon Zero Dawn use some fancy loading technique as well?
What size of SSD is going to be in the PS5?
The games will need to be installed onto the SSD to take advantage of the speed and I can't see many 100gb games fitting in there.
The games will need to be installed onto the SSD to take advantage of the speed and I can't see many 100gb games fitting in there.
did you listen to cerny talking about data on ps5 games being put into organized chunks. I’m sure they have thought this out
That for sure but console have a limited budget and the best is to find a balance but they were limited on Ps4 by the HDD saying differently is literally accuse Insomniac games developer to lie to other devs at GDC. This is a presentation to other devs not at E3.
And I can't imagine the loading time with more RAM and a HDD. lol
Games are always “limited” by the hardware they are on.
PS5 games will be “limited” by the speed of the SSD.
What’s your point?
So when exactly did you stop playing on consoles? PS4 has some really fast loading times, typically the only long loading time you'll see is when starting a fresh boot on a game. A lot of the time you won't even get what could be reasonably called "loading times" when inside the game.
And what is the point to accuse a dev of lying to it peers at GDC? The console are build to find perfect balance between cost, power, consumption and features.
And the limit will be much higher with a SSD than a HDD. This will help a lot.
EDIT: And GDC 2019 was before any PS5 information when we had no idea there will be an SSD in PS or Xbox Scarlet
14 pages to understand that it's using PCIe Version 4.0 (possibly 4.1) and NVMe drives?
More than likely they are using slightly custom tech for bandwidth given the calls, etc from the processor. It certainly will overshadow anything available AT THE MOMENT in PC's...
EDIT
Also, I'm locked in at 1TB SSD, there is a huge oversupply of DRAM and Flash chips at the moment. There have even been rumors of halting production to ensure prices don't absolutely crash.
More than likely they are using slightly custom tech for bandwidth given the calls, etc from the processor. It certainly will overshadow anything available AT THE MOMENT in PC's...
EDIT
Also, I'm locked in at 1TB SSD, there is a huge oversupply of DRAM and Flash chips at the moment. There have even been rumors of halting production to ensure prices don't absolutely crash.
video from 2017, before streaming an open world game fast was serious business
youtu.be
FLYING AT OVER 1000 MPH (Super Sonic Flight Mod) | GTA 5 Mods
In this GTA 5 Mod showcase, I show a mod which enables you to fly planes at over 1000 mph! Super Sonic Mod: https://goo.gl/t3Bkqh B-2A Spirit: https://goo.gl...
youtu.be
I never said they were lying. In their talk they didn’t hype up a SSD. They talked about developing on the hardware period.
Mark Cerny was the SSD hype man, and people started posting that video as justification for the hype.
Or maybe you're bothered that people are excited about something and are being unrealistically streaching your points to rain down on their parade?
Are you really more knowledgeable than all this people and all the people in the Next gen thread than disagrees with you?
Just saying
I didn’t come in here quoting people to tell them they were wrong. I didn’t make the thread. You reaching for a way to attack me for my opinion. Think you may be barking up the wrong tree here buddy.
And the next gen thread is literally titled hot air and fan noise. Wouldn’t call that thread an authority on anything
OP
OP
Yeah this I don’t really get this when people say loading times in console games are bad. They are WAY better than what they used to be on previous gen systems (especially ps1 era) sometimes you still get a longer load screen than normal especially fast travelling but generally speaking games have improved vastly with loading even with normal HDD due to faster processors and throughout.
I think that feature will just go away. There would be no point for developers to make games with the speed of the SSD in mind if anyone can replace it with a random slower one from a Newegg sale.
Maybe yeah, XD
This is going to be an interesting year of info.
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PC games from next Gen ports should just put SSD in the system requirements. Go buy a $30 SSD for GTA6 you people! You go and buy a CPU and Motherboard for that game that require SSE4.1.
SSE4 - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
It's a wait and see for me-- I just wonder how the market will adapt for it if the prices are steep.Maybe yeah, XD
This is going to be an interesting year of info.
------------------------------
PC games from next Gen ports should just put SSD in the system requirements. Go buy a $30 SSD for GTA6 you people! You go and buy a CPU and Motherboard for that game that require SSE4.1.
SSE4 - Wikipedia
If It's for the betterment of game performance and less corners that devs are forced to cut, I'm all in.
Yeah, this sounds very unlikely to me. Unless they really want some insane console prices.
The PS5 has to be cheap.
The SSD will be small to keep costs down for the base-model console, which means it has to be expandable with external drives or cheap upgrades. Games will become increasingly large.
It's not going to have highly customised unique technology. Sony learnt their lesson from the Cell processor. They'll use off-the-shelf parts with relatively little customisation, especially for the one part that has traditionally been upgradeable/expandable.
It'll almost certainly be an M2 drive with a PCIE interface. Maybe even SATA3, which they'd need if they support for external expansion drives (SATA3 is just as fast for PC gaming as PCIE, because sequential read GB/s is not the bottleneck for game loading)
Even an off-the-shelf consumer SSD will be a major high-cost part for a console.