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Why is SSD in PS5 made to look like a game changer? PC’s have had it for decade and it hasn’t made that much difference?

Kyolux

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,048
I want to see how this is going to work with multiple games? It's safe to assume the SSD will be 500GB, if it's 1TB then the console is going to be expensive. However that 500GB or even 1TB is going to go really fast, hell 4-6 AAA games and the drive is full.

So what's going to happen then? If you use a external drive it's going to be a lot slower even if it's a external SSD due to the fact it will be external via USB.
I'd take a guess that file size could temporarily at the very least go down with redundancy being no longer needed. But games will definitely get bigger and bigger so yeah that eventual my SSD is full now what? question will matter.

Personally I tend to only keep what I need on my consoles and redownload as needed, but not everyone has super fast internet with no caps.

edit: oops totally missed Ploid 6.0 already saying just that about game sizes.
 
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xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
17,871
Seriously, if Sony and MS just put one or two SSD bays in the console itself, that would be aces. Even if they have to dictate which type, that is still better than not having an expansion option.
 

Yudoken

Member
Jun 7, 2019
68
SSD's are a game changer however it depends on how much of a benefit it is. The true question is when will a game on pc force you to use an SSD (or at least pass a loading time benchmark) in a online game. Gears 4 was the first story game which forced me to free up space on my 500gb SSD because the campaign was unplayable on my new hdd due to constant slowdowns which were caused by loading (even in pre rendered cutscenes). Didn't have those issues in Gear 5 though.

M.2 SSD speeds might be very impressive on paper but right now there's little reason to get one for gaming. Or at least for now. The price for a speed difference around 1 second in the loading comparisons I've seen is just not viable at all. When SSD's become a standard with the next gen consoles things will rapidly change on pc for sure.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,706
On PC, M.2 NVME doesn't use up the full speed for games because the games are made with HDD in mind. That's PC gaming for ya, it's good and sometimes it's a little bad, lowest common denominator effects the whole on things like this. There are still games that use forced videos that were to hide loading that SSD users can't always brute force past (Death cutscenes for example, similar to fails in Batman Arkham Knight).
 

OmegaDL50

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,057
Philadelphia, PA
I doubt there will not be an expansion slot, M.2's are so tiny I can't see why it wouldn't.
I never had one of these sorts of cards in my PC before. The three drives in my PC right now are plugged directly into the three M.2 slots on my motherboard.

How does this sort of card work. I'm assuming it's full 16x PCIe bandwidth because I can't see the benefit of the speed being split four ways at 4x bandwidth. Are these treated as four individual drives, or is this strictly for RAID purposes?
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,706
I never had one of these sorts of cards in my PC before. The three drives in my PC right now are plugged directly into the three M.2 slots on my motherboard.

How does this sort of card work. I'm assuming it's full 16x PCIe bandwidth because I can't see the benefit of the speed being split four ways at 4x bandwidth. Are these treated as four individual drives, or is this strictly for RAID purposes?
It's a raid card.

 
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Justsomeguy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
586
UK

daninthemix

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,854
I really want to know in what world the switch from an HDD to an SSD in a PC didn't make a difference
This thread has taught me that it didn't make a difference because SSDs, being absent from the console baseline, didn't factor into game design. But now that they will, everything will be magical. And with so many armchair experts here, I literally don't need to wait till next year, release, and some Digital Foundry benchmarks demonstrating this seachange.

I'm sold already!
 

Sartho

Member
Jan 9, 2018
69
When I first switched from an HDD to a SSD, I noticed a drastic improvement in almost all my pc performance. Games designed around higher speed SSDs will be able to take advantage of it, and load so much faster.
 

Kyolux

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,048
Isn't that fairly standard (being mounted direct)? I know my friend's laptop does that.
I think you mean the M2s? Those can be changed I think? I'm saying this will be soldered on and might not be a shape or form that can just be replaced.

What might happen is secondary storage and a lot of switching around between drive might happen? Although that doesn't sound very likely either. Still a couple months of speculations to go.

daninthemix that's some great hyperbole right there.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
9,996
It's like people didn't play any open world games this gen and see the ridicilous amounts of pop in and texture streaming issues. Ever tried riding the bike at full speed in Days Gone?
 

Zelus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
589
Somewhat off topic but I’m not sure where else to ask. Does anybody know what the minimum hard drive size is for the PS4 Pro? I ask because I got an external SSD (which I love) and would like to install an internal one as well, but don’t want to spend a lot of money since I don’t need a lot of storage.
 

Spaltazar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,823
ssd is old and busted. nvme ssd :P is the new hotness!

too bad it does not translate to as much of a loading advantage (yet). maybe consoles having ssd as standard will change something for all of us?
 

Edgar

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,533
This thread has taught me that it didn't make a difference because SSDs, being absent from the console baseline, didn't factor into game design. But now that they will, everything will be magical. And with so many armchair experts here, I literally don't need to wait till next year, release, and some Digital Foundry benchmarks demonstrating this seachange.

I'm sold already!
I mean folks were saying real time Ray tracing is not important and its just a new gimmick for PC people. Apparently next gen consoles liked that gimmick enough to incorporate into their new hardware
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,364
Yeah this I don’t really get this when people say loading times in console games are bad. They are WAY better than what they used to be on previous gen systems (especially ps1 era) sometimes you still get a longer load screen than normal especially fast travelling but generally speaking games have improved vastly with loading even with normal HDD due to faster processors and throughout.
Oh makes sense now why you don't think ssd was a game changer for PC which is of course wrong.

It was a big quality of life improvement and it will be for consoles. I'm currently dreading monster hunter load times on ps4 they're horrible.
 

Inuhanyou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,471
New Jersey
I mean folks were saying real time Ray tracing is not important and its just a new gimmick for PC people. Apparently next gen consoles liked that gimmick enough to incorporate into their new hardware
I mean, one can look at it as a stupid fight betweeen PC and console users or one can look at the reality.

And that is, these technologies are significant, and when developers can fully prioritize them through a high enough baseline, they will actually become standard and far more creatively used in game design.
 

Tortillo VI

Member
May 27, 2018
141
It's a game changer for me when I play on my PC, which only uses SSD. Load times and texture pop-in is awful in certain games even on the enhanced consoles when you are coming from a good PC. I'm also interested in seeing how games change now that they can put more information more quickly on-screen. Things like God of War's one-take approach will become way more viable.
 

Edgar

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,533
I mean, one can look at it as a stupid fight betweeen PC and console users or one can look at the reality.

And that is, these technologies are significant, and when developers can fully prioritize them through a high enough baseline, they will actually become standard and far more creatively used in game design.
The reality is , that this forum is console centric, so anything thats related to PC tech are not as important until consoles make big news about having same tech too. Consoles and consoles games are needed because of lower barrier and it popularizes same tech to extent that you dont need 1k gpu to run it anymore down the line . But to pretend like RTX is insignificant like some people did , its clearly showing
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,529
Barcelona Spain
I mean, one can look at it as a stupid fight betweeen PC and console users or one can look at the reality.

And that is, these technologies are significant, and when developers can fully prioritize them through a high enough baseline, they will actually become standard and far more creatively used in game design.
Exactly like Mike Ybarra(ex Xbox), it will be good for PC too. And the first game to be optimized for SSD is not a PC game only Star Ctitizen.
 

jacktuar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,515
The reality is , that this forum is console centric, so anything thats related to PC tech are not as important until consoles make big news about having same tech too. Consoles and consoles games are needed because of lower barrier and it popularizes same tech to extent that you dont need 1k gpu to run it anymore down the line . But to pretend like RTX is insignificant like some people did , its clearly showing
It’s not about whether this forum is console centric at all, it’s about what this means for the industry. Like it or not, the vast majority of AAA games are made for consoles first. That means this will have a huge impact on games for consoles and PCs alike, and this is a HUGE step up from the current gen.
 

Edgar

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,533
It’s not about whether this forum is console centric at all, it’s about what this means for the industry. Like it or not, the vast majority of AAA games are made for consoles first. That means this will have a huge impact on games for consoles and PCs alike, and this is a HUGE step up from the current gen.
I dont disagree thats its important and i know that consoles and console games dictate most of the tech when it comes to AAA.
 

Inuhanyou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,471
New Jersey
The reality is , that this forum is console centric, so anything thats related to PC tech are not as important until consoles make big news about having same tech too.
Yes, but no one is disputing that no one on console really cares about tech on PC until it concerns them. The point is that its dumb to claim that that technology doesnt get vastly more important when consoles start using it en mass, as is the case with every console generation lifting the limit on what devs can prioritize
 

aisback

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,953
I'm just hoping it'll be user replaceable as I don't want a smaller size drive.

Either way It#ll be great not to be bottlenecked by the storage
 

Kyolux

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,048
I'm just hoping it'll be user replaceable as I don't want a smaller size drive.

Either way It#ll be great not to be bottlenecked by the storage
Big doubts on main ssd being replaceable this time around although it could happen I guess. More likely there'll be side storage or external storage support.
 

laxu

Member
Nov 26, 2017
974
Big doubts on main ssd being replaceable this time around although it could happen I guess. More likely there'll be side storage or external storage support.
Side storage would be just as good. Just have a second M.2 port somewhere and you don't have to deal with the slower speeds of external storage via USB etc.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,234
I also don't think it will be user replaceable. I'm hoping it's something like the PS3 Super Slim. In the super slim situation, it had non replaceable 12GB storage that got disabled when you put in your own drive. There was an empty hard drive slot to put your own in. One benefit of that was it was easy to get up n running when replacing your own hard drive, there was a backup of the OS on the 12GB.

I'm hoping we can still do that, but the SSD won't get disabled. So copying games from your own drive to the SSD. I do believe we will be able to use external hard drives. I'm hoping it will also be something like what MS mentioned about using the SSD like virtual ram.
 
Oct 27, 2017
763
SSD's have the potential to fall in price so significantly over the course of 5+ year generation that I would be surprised if the new consoles shipped without the ability for users to easily swap M.2's.
 

Darknight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,734
SSD's have the potential to fall in price so significantly over the course of 5+ year generation that I would be surprised if the new consoles shipped without the ability for users to easily swap M.2's.
The problem with this is M.2 drives range in speed based on whether it's SATA, NVME, number of chips, etc so trying to educate the masses which drives work and which don't might be too problematic.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,706
The problem with this is M.2 drives range in speed based on whether it's SATA, NVME, number of chips, etc so trying to educate the masses which drives work and which don't might be too problematic.
It should be a bit easy putting something like this in the manual.


Changing a HDD would be the same when picking between IDE and SATA a while ago. The manual could say only get a "M Key" m.2 drive with a visual representation, and the length to pick. Though they could allow the maximum to the shortest length.
 

Darknight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,734
It should be a bit easy putting something like this in the manual.


Changing a HDD would be the same when picking between IDE and SATA a while ago. The manual could say only get a "M Key" m.2 drive with a visual representation, and the length to pick. Though they could allow the maximum to the shortest length.
But that doesn't factor in the number of chips on a NVME drive nor if it's PCI 3.0 or 4.0.
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
11,973
Not America
It should be a bit easy putting something like this in the manual.


Changing a HDD would be the same when picking between IDE and SATA a while ago. The manual could say only get a "M Key" m.2 drive with a visual representation, and the length to pick. Though they could allow the maximum to the shortest length.
I am hedging my bets of the solution being akin what has been with Macbook Pros- storage soldered to motherboard. Additional storage may well be done via external USB 3.0.
 
Oct 27, 2017
763
But that doesn't factor in the number of chips on a NVME drive nor if it's PCI 3.0 or 4.0.

Good point, Also consider NVME M.2's heatsink compatibility within the small form factor of a console. Most PCI 3.0 ones do not come with heatsinks pre-installed and under most use cases do not require one, but every 4.0 drive on the market now requires one due to the extra heat they put out. Though it is possible SSD manufacturers will sort that problem out in time.

They could also sell specially branded "Made for PS5" M.2's with a marked up price, just like how they sell "Made for PS4/Xbox" external HDD's now with a marked up price.