They already show the SSD would allow you to go faster in the spidey demo since they will be able to load the world faster .
That is something you can expect from next gen in open world games.
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Why is SSD in PS5 made to look like a game changer? PC’s have had it for decade and it hasn’t made that much difference?
- Thread starter mogster7777
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They already show the SSD would allow you to go faster in the spidey demo since they will be able to load the world faster .
That is something you can expect from next gen in open world games.
Not in the sense that people are sitting around thinking "I need and SSD" when they don't know what it is. But people want to be thrilled and excited by cool new technology so if sony is like "YO WE GOT THE HOT NEW TECH! SSDs!!! SPACE AGE SHIT!"
The average person with no idea will say "oh shit, space age shit I'm in!"
Being able to design games and game engines around a guaranteed high bandwidth SSD will be a paradigm shift. Of course software that does not assume this baseline will not display the full potential of these gains. A custom or PCIe 4.0 SSD with 4+ GB/s of bandwidth will never be more than 3 seconds away from completely refilling accessible RAM. Forget using SSD as a buffer or cache. That's a total non-starter. You don't need to "stage" data when that won't be any faster than reading directly from the install location.
It'll probably make use of more pcie lanes or something that PC doesn't do. Consoles are like PCs but they are their own things. From using EDram to solve a problem, to using GDDR5 for system memory. I look forward to seeing things after the dust settles. Maybe PCIe 4 NVME SSDs will be useful for some future PC games, if they aren't redesigned when they hit PC to compensate for HDD PC users.
What an ignorant thread title and and thread overall. There's well documented proof that most PC gamers in this very thread can attest to and there's still an argument about the impact? Having SSD as a baseline will certainly alter certain approaches to game design.
Also, any time I've upgraded any kind of device to an SSD from HDD - it has by far been the biggest upgraded for me and I could never go back.
Also, any time I've upgraded any kind of device to an SSD from HDD - it has by far been the biggest upgraded for me and I could never go back.
So what nand exactly are sony using for this magical performance? Cheap nvme drives don't even saturate a 4 lane pci bus.
I think you greatly overestimate how much the general public think or care about parts like SSDs. This is purely anecdotal, but I remember explaining to people that their MacBooks were fast because the SSDs significantly cut down on loading time relative to MacBooks with a traditional HDD. They all told me that they thought their MacBooks were fast simply because it's a MacBook/Apple product.
This is what the Scarlett/PS5 reveals will be for. Once they show app hopping, UI speed, fast travel, realtime jump cuts, and those 1st year next-gen exclusives, people will understand. Console players know the pain of waiting for Destiny strikes to load, or a post-death loading screen in their Soulslike of choice.
I still have one of the earliest 120GB SSD and it is still faster than my latest HDD in terms of loading up games.
Ever been in a rocket car in GTA5? Open world games don't have that limitation, that was just unique to the ps4's Spiderman and didn't need new hardware to solve, but different coding. Unless I'm not understanding your example.
The real performance benefit comes from sequential reads and Sony (and Microsoft if they choose to use PCIe 4), being a platform holder, is in a unique position to provide tools so game devs can package their games in a way that uses this high sequential read performance. Any regular PC with PCIe 4 drives will always be restricted by random access reads which is significantly slower than sequential reads. Typical sequential read speeds can, with the current limited available PCIe 4.0 disk controllers, go up to 5 GB/s, but random access is far lower.
Someone need to install Windows on a regular HDD instead of an SSD or NVME and see how ''little'' it has changed things.
They can claim whatever they want, Optane memory will be in another league most probably. I don't know why they make such claims, to be honest.
Yeah the operative term there has always been "what is currently available on PC", not "what will be available on PC by the time PS5 launches".
Yeh cause pc ssd controllers are obviously designed to spew the data randomly all over the drive. Also I was replying to a post talking about 16GB/s read speeds. Sony should go into making enterprise storage solutions they will make a killing.
The answer is it changed responsiveness and load times, but has not made any difference to a game once it is loaded. We are talking about gaming devices. Seriously, this other stuff is stuff we've already experienced in the N64 and other older cartridge based systems.
Optane is already available, though. I get that they customize their SSD and I guess there will be a corner case where they actually have a slight advantage to whatever metric they then use but I think it will still be misleading in the end.
I dont know if next gen consoles will be this fast but imagine being able to load assets so quick that you could have the videogame equivalent of this.
Load times has been an often stated reason when I hear about console players jumping to PC in the last 7-8 years. Could even be better than PCs now.
OP
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I have a .m2 Samsung SSD and Windows 10 it defiantly loads faster. It still takes about 20-30 seconds as it loads all the apps though like malware bytes and various other stuff I have installed but I guess that's pretty impressive right for an OS like Windows 10?
the only way you could think SSD's being standardized in the next gen is "marketing' is believing that developers dont use consoles as a baseline for the minimum industry standard, and that with each generation, the baseline is pushed up due to that.
We know that this is the case, so there is LITERALLY no reason to believe what you just posted.
I have no idea how many ignorant posts are made despite developers literally saying as much.
Everything starts on the PC 1st TBH. I remember when online consoles was a game changer and PC's had that for years, never mind the push for 3D polygons.
It will be a game changer next-gen given how long games take to load in when you 1st start them.
There are a ton of factors at play but SSDs definitely make a difference. It's just that improvements are variable on a case by case basis.
But even on the old Xbox One, plugging an external SSD could net you a 30% load time reduction on many games.
Marvel's Spiderman limited Spiderman's swinging speed due to the possibility to use a slower than default HDD on PS4. That's well explained in a GDC vault conference about the game.
It greatly reduced texture pop in in open world game due to asset streaming faster.
The game would've benefited so much from a higher frame rate :(, the gunplay and movement feels off in 30fps
From my experience I feel SSD reduce the average game load time quite significantly. When I switch from playing a game on my PC to one on the console, it's always noticeable how much longer load times feel on a console with a standard HDD in place. Sure, there are other factors at play (like different hardware), but even when I was running games off an older laptop from 2014 with an SSD, it was still impressive how much quicker load times were. And the less time I have to spend waiting to play a game the better.
I do think one smart thing consoles have done to combat load times is 'rest mode', since that typically allows you skip that long initial load for a game. Still, I'm happy to see the PS5 bring SSD's to the console mainstream.
I do think one smart thing consoles have done to combat load times is 'rest mode', since that typically allows you skip that long initial load for a game. Still, I'm happy to see the PS5 bring SSD's to the console mainstream.
Probably already mentioned, but even on PC games aren't made with SSD specs in mind. So even with an SSD on your machine, games aren't taking full advantage of it, but still... Even on PC with current games, having an SSD is a game changer for a lot of games, but especially for OS side stuff.
Comparing loading times between my PS4 and PC, I would def call it a game changer even outside of any potential game design possibilities in the future.
If the loading times are even "just" cut in half I'll be a happy man. So much dead time just for example playing CTR and waiting for a match to load over and over again.
If the loading times are even "just" cut in half I'll be a happy man. So much dead time just for example playing CTR and waiting for a match to load over and over again.
Anyone who thinks SSDs won't impact how games are designed needs to watch this about Spider-Man:
I've skipped it ahead to the point where they talk about the data budget they set themselves to for streaming content in and at one point he explicitly points out how they have to factor in that people can replace their PS4 HDD so they have to account for poor quality HDDs being slower than the stock HDD that comes in the system which in turn impacts the budget for the amount of data they know they have to guarantee to be able to stream in to fill out the world at any given time.
I've skipped it ahead to the point where they talk about the data budget they set themselves to for streaming content in and at one point he explicitly points out how they have to factor in that people can replace their PS4 HDD so they have to account for poor quality HDDs being slower than the stock HDD that comes in the system which in turn impacts the budget for the amount of data they know they have to guarantee to be able to stream in to fill out the world at any given time.
Let gamers do the talk, I don't even know why this thread is still alive.
am I the only one that is surprised that the "pro" consoles don't have an ssd in them?
as someone that doesn't pay much attention to playstation/xbox stuff I kinda just assumed that a console revision released in 2016/17 would have one I guess
as someone that doesn't pay much attention to playstation/xbox stuff I kinda just assumed that a console revision released in 2016/17 would have one I guess
1 Tb Nvme SSD are available for 100 dollars at retail it means for Sony and MS it will cost maybe 40 to 50 dollars to have an SSD inside the console
I would like to thank this member for this clear and understandable post.
And going by your tag, i certainly thank you for that!
1TB Nvme SSDs aren't available for that price. Maybe on sale and for a smaller price. Good 1TB PCIE3.0 4x SSDs reaching over 3go/s for read/write are at 140-150 dollars, sometimes more. And I'm not even talking avout PCIE4.0 ones.
Install base is why.
Some years ago Intel tried to promote SSDs as a game-changer for game design, sponsored research and sessions at GDC etc showcasing some technical possibilities of what you could do if you designed around and could depend on SSD speeds.
But the install base wasn't there to support that proposition. Devs want to support the range of targets out there, or to keep the option of portability open, and that included targets with regular HDDs.
With consoles adopting SSDs as standard, there's the hope that maybe we can move the bar up to that level, as a base level for a new generation of games. Not every game - not cross gen games - obviously, but it's plausible now that 'next-gen' games can start building around that baseline. And so, some of those ideas may make it from research to product.
On a lower level, within a console, or PS5 context specifically, Sony has made a little noise over their solution being better than then-available PC parts, or being better or more performance-reliable due to a custom part and/or custom hardware stack. If devs can get certain hard guarantees about IO performance out of a system like that, vs a range of SSDs or HDDs, it might tip over some interesting techniques into the range of the possible. Things that maybe hark back to an era of cartridges in terms of RAM vs ROM memory juggling.
Some years ago Intel tried to promote SSDs as a game-changer for game design, sponsored research and sessions at GDC etc showcasing some technical possibilities of what you could do if you designed around and could depend on SSD speeds.
But the install base wasn't there to support that proposition. Devs want to support the range of targets out there, or to keep the option of portability open, and that included targets with regular HDDs.
With consoles adopting SSDs as standard, there's the hope that maybe we can move the bar up to that level, as a base level for a new generation of games. Not every game - not cross gen games - obviously, but it's plausible now that 'next-gen' games can start building around that baseline. And so, some of those ideas may make it from research to product.
On a lower level, within a console, or PS5 context specifically, Sony has made a little noise over their solution being better than then-available PC parts, or being better or more performance-reliable due to a custom part and/or custom hardware stack. If devs can get certain hard guarantees about IO performance out of a system like that, vs a range of SSDs or HDDs, it might tip over some interesting techniques into the range of the possible. Things that maybe hark back to an era of cartridges in terms of RAM vs ROM memory juggling.
95,99 dollars and this is standard SSD, I don't think the NAND Flash will be somethig special on Sony SSD but everything out of the NAND Flash itselft will be custom out of mabe the bus.
for PCIE 4 there is a premium price but this is just a bus I doubt with the 15 to 20 millions per year order for the next 6 years Sony will paid as much and this is if they use PCIE 4. In the patent they never talk about the bus maybe something custom.
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Sure Crucial P1 isn't very fast (still 3x faster than any SATA SSD) and you can buy it for $95,99) right now. You won't get your 970 evo or WD Black on your next gen consoles.
Well people are claiming speeds over 4GB. Or basically even PCIE4.0 speeds.