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Why isn't there more discussion regarding healing Incels when they come up?

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Oct 25, 2017
2,706
First, lemme say that I absolutely do not want this thread to serve as a way to excuse or justify treating women like crap in any capacity.

Whenever I see discussions or videos on Incels though, they just seem to me like a symptom of underlying issues we need to address socially. Again, I don't want this to turn into some mens'-rights nonsense, but I can't help but feel like problems like these stem from issues like:

  • pressures of toxic (or even general) masculinity
  • isolation men face in public
  • culture/expectation of "scoring/winning" a girl/phone-number when going out (or socializing men to treat women as prizes they're entitled to)
  • lables like "alpha/beta"
  • expectation for men to not need to sort through emotions
  • etc
Again, I'm not an expert in any capacity, and if you disagree with the points I'm making, please correct me and explain why. It just seems like when Incels are brought up, these are things that should be touched upon and looked at, and they're usually ignored. (And not just here at Era).

Thoughts?
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,910
Why should the onus of healing be placed on the victims of these hate groups? Substitute "incels" for any other hate group and see if it still makes sense to you.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
8,990
Incels aren't a sympton of anything, they're simply bad peolpe joining a hate movement. Millions of men suffers the consequences of lonelines or toxic masculinity (to say two examples) and they don't end up joining hate movement. If someone suffers from one of the points talked above, seek help. If, instead, you choose to join hate movements, then it's only on you.

Same as any other hate movement like alt-right/nazism... the onus to help them isn't on the one suffering their hate.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,888
if you want to talk about healing incels, I hope you're also just as worried about healing women. I don't see anyone saying incels shouldn't talk to some one or get some therapy or other form of help. They definitely do.

A lot of that stuff can be solved by "don't be an asshole". That's hard for some people to literally understand, let alone accomplish. So the point is not to disengage and become even worse, but to back off, stop what you're doing, reexamine, re-engage, and hopefully do better. But I'm not going to call it an affliction just because they gave themselves a name, no.
 

Wulfric

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,160
I got my own problems, man. Ain't nobody have time to deal with that mountain of issues those people clearly have.
 

LogicAirForce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
567
The last thread we had on incels was full of people tripping over themselves to proclaim that we should try to understand these people and help them heal. Of course these same people didn't have two words for the women who are victims of these shit bags.
 

R0b1n

Member
Jun 29, 2018
3,325
I can’t help them, only professionals can at that point. I don’t see much merit in discussing healing them when it’s beyond our means and it would just boil down to “they should go visit a therapist”
 
OP
OP
WarpSpeedMolasses
Oct 25, 2017
2,706
if you want to talk about healing incels, I hope you're also just as worried about healing women. I don't see anyone saying incels shouldn't talk to some one or get some therapy or other form of help. They definitely do.
Of course. I don't want this to take away from recognizing the repercussions and garbage that women face or have to deal with as a result of this issue. And I hope it doesn't feel like it's insulting or diminishing the abuse they face. It just seemed to me (and again, I could be wrong) that this stems from social issues regarding men.

Why isn't there more discussion regarding healing women of all races?

There should be, and I'd say (at least here in the States) we're taking small, way overdue steps with the MeToo movement. But does it have to be either one or the other?
 

Secret Fawful

Member
Oct 25, 2017
862
USA
Why isn't there more discussion regarding healing women of all races?

Or healing black men, women, and children? Or healing trans/genderless/gender-fluid folks? Or healing gay/bi/pan folks?
 

Kenzodielocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,314
Incels are sexist, racist, homophobic fuckwits. Mental illness doesn't make you a sexist, racist, homophobic fuckwit.
 
Oct 27, 2017
720
You can't help the far gone, but I do agree that you can put in work to ensuring that many don't develop into incels.

Sadly I don't think much can be made on a large scale, just what you can do for the people around you, be they your brother, cousin, friend, son, etc. in teaching them and guiding them so as they don't fall into it's trappings. Like most awful hate movements a lot of people who end up joining were wronged or more accurately felt wronged and it's on the people around them to help them. After a certain age it rests solely on them, from there it's a lot harder to fix.

I won't pretend I'll go out of my way to talk to someone who is an incel, challenge them or what have you. Dogmatic internet discussions are often fruitless. So I just avoid them when I can unless it affects me or the people I care about.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,888
Of course. I don't want this to take away from recognizing the repercussions and garbage that women face or have to deal with as a result of this issue. And I hope it doesn't feel like it's insulting or diminishing the abuse they face. It just seemed to me (and again, I could be wrong) that this stems from social issues regarding men.
the problem is it doesn't seem like a matter of course in a lot of incel spaces, because they blame women in their pain, and from the sidelines usually it seems to be done pretty unfairly. So until they're able to get perspective enough to not feed into that, the reminder requires recognition.
 
Oct 28, 2017
691
Sure it would be great if they could actually sort out their issues in a healthy way. And toxic masculinity is definitely one cause that leads to the incel movement. (Besides some people just being assholes and craving for a power fantasy)

Problem is I don't think they want to seek help, because they'll probably see talking to a therapist or even friends about their problems as unmanly. And the onus of talking to them shouldn't be on the ones they abuse.

What we can do is try to create a world where toxic masculinity is ostracized, and try not to perpetuate these dogmas of men having to be tough and emotionless. But the incels don't want to question these norms, they want to indulge in them.
 

Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
Why should the onus of healing be placed on the victims of these hate groups? Substitute "incels" for any other hate group and see if it still makes sense to you.
Didn't you read the OP or something? It's about tackling the issues that precede it.

Also, the onus shouldn't rest solely on the victims of those hate groups, but the more you explore every possible avenue to fix these sorts of situations, the faster these types of groups will disappear.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,769
There is a group of people that are trying to solve toxic masculinity which is what describes literally every issue you outlined in the OP: Feminists.

But, of course, the little shits regard embracing feminism as being cucked, so it's more of a problem of you can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
 

Bedlam

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,678
I do think that most incels suffer from some degree of mental illness.

However, you can't force them to snap out of it. The first step of the healing has to be their acknowledgement that it's them and not the world. Only after that they possibly can start the healing process, which might involve some psyhotherapy depending on the severity of their condition. Sometimes deliberate lifestyle changes could be enough.

Most of them are likely not mentally strong enough to get to the point of making this realization about themselves though. Blaming the world for all their misery and reveling in it with similarly deranged minds is just easier.
 
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Skelepuzzle

Member
Apr 17, 2018
6,080
Why don't we talk about healing <insert hate group>? Because their problem is that they're horrible bigots and we should be more concerned about the wellbeing of their targets.
 

Wzrd

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,085
Portland, Oregon
Have you even spent any amount of time on their subreddit? There isn’t anything anyone can do.

They sit around and feed into each other’s hate for women and hate for anyone they perceive as more desirable than themselves. They don’t want help, they just want to lash out at everyone and everything.
 

R0b1n

Member
Jun 29, 2018
3,325
There is a group of people that are trying to solve toxic masculinity which is what describes literally every issue you outlined in the OP: Feminists.

But, of course, the little shits regard embracing feminism as being cucked, so it's more of a problem of you can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Also this
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,998
I am sure as hell not going to engage with a group of men that see me as something below them, especially when some are going down the ‘rape the women’ or pedophilia path.
 

Secret Fawful

Member
Oct 25, 2017
862
USA
You can't get through to the kind of people who even think science tells them women are biologically made to hate them because "they don't lift" or whatever other bullshit these people believe. You don't realize how far gone they are.

They've actually figured out a way to hate healthy living and exercise and anyone who does either.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,910
Didn't you read the OP or something? It's about tackling the issues that precede it.

Also, the onus shouldn't rest solely on the victims of those hate groups, but the more you explore every possible avenue to fix these sorts of situations, the faster these types of groups will disappear.
There is no rationality with these groups. They are an illogical hate group. You're better off talking about "economic anxiety" of racists and Neo-Nazis worried about their jobs/families/bloodlines.

And by saying it shouldn't rest "solely" on the victims implies it should be rest in part on them, which is hot garbage. They're a hate group, plain and simple, and the OP can be replaced with a simple: "Why isn't there more discussion regarding healing Neo-Nazis when they come up?" unless you have sympathy for incels, a hate group, who hate women with irrational regard.

Substitute women for "female" if it's hard to understand. They are moronic monsters.
 

The Woods

The way out is through
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
4,087
We are not going to host a thread dedicated to 'healing' violently misogynistic hate groups.
 
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