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RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,184
I've been thinking a lot about how popular media reflects the conscious and subconscious desires of the populace. On some level, provided a non propagandist state, the widespread success of popular media tends to be driven by its ability to speak to fulfill the desires of the people.

If we look back to the 1990s we see a celebration of the military and an elevation of militaristic personalities and leaders across much of popular media (movies, TV etc). Nowadays pop culture is dominated by the concept of "super heroes." Provided my previous supposition is correct this fixation should give us insight into the thoughts, motivations and desires of the populace at large. So I'm left wondering why superheroes seem to resonate so much with the modern person.

My theory is this: people have lost hope in the establishment. They have accepted that no normal person could ever "save" them or fix the widespread corruption and imbalance of power/influence they see in the world around them. In the face of such a reality the fantasy of a super hero becomes a powerful one. Suddenly you have someone who doesn't follow the normal rules of what is and isn't possible. Suddenly there is hope that change is possible.

I think the same hopelessness holds true for young kids who feel ostracized or bullied and feel as though no authority figure can really help them which helps explain why super heroes are so popular with kids who tend to stand out and not fit in as much.

Another thing that backs up this idea that a desire for change is a primary motivator for the populace at large is in recent elections. Barack Obama's initial campaign saw him achieve historic levels of voter turnout under a platform of "change" and Trump saw the sort of success he saw in large part due to his status as an "outsider" who would "drain the swamp" and mix things up.

It's clear to me the public is growing increasingly disenchanted with the status quo and there is a widespread sentiment that change is needed. Many may disagree about the sort of change that should occur but lost agree that things cannot continue as they are. And so in the face of what seems more and more to be an indefatigable globalized bureaucracy governed increasingly by rapidly consolidating wealth is it any wonder that people look to heroes to escape their grim reality?

What are your thoughts? Do you agree that the popularity of media gives an insight into the minds and hearts of the people? Do you agree with me about why the idea of a superhero is so appealing to modern society?
 

daisy main

Member
Jan 4, 2020
5
superheroes dominate culture because we want something to agree with and they're designed relatable to our history and personal lives.
 

Megadragon15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
626
It's only Marvel's super heroes that are dominating. The other comic book companies just can't compete.
 

Gifmaker

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
964
They are so popular because they live in black and white worlds where they can fight nazis and other bad guys without any ambiguous moral implications and people IRL desperately want to be able to fight bad guys in the same fashion so they can feel like they are the good guys.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,212
Greater Vancouver
I mean... to a point. Yeah, it's called escapism. Obviously.

I'll certainly admit there's absolutely a catharsis in watching Daredevil beat the everloving shit out of a wealthy capitalist who manages to manipulate a system to his own ends, with Matt screaming into his face in rage and triumph "This city rejected you. It beat you! I beat you!"

There's no shortage of people who found power in the image of Black Panther or Wonder Woman fighting against apathy and injustice.


Thing is, Marvel's own relationship with politics in their films is still messy. DC is kinda not part of the conversation in a meaningful way right now. But either way, the movies inherently are built on personifying systemic failings as punchable problems rather than having to consider long-term reconciliation or introspection. Being able to blame nearly a century of horrible US foreign policy on a Nazi supergroup is an easy answer compared acknowledging America's own historic or ideological failings.
 
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mreddie

Member
Oct 26, 2017
44,125
Easy: Our world sucks and we want a power fantasy to punch all our problems away.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
I think you have a point there, and it's a concept I remember being taught in college.

People decades ago went though something similar when religion started to decline. People started losing faith in religion, leading to a similar sense of loss, and similarly caused people to reach for something else to rely on and believe in. For some, that something became the establishment. The mentality going "we can't rely on gods anymore, so we will figure out how to live our lives ourselves."

And more recently, there is now a loss of faith in the establishment. When the social structures meant to protect you start turning out to be doing the opposite, the same loss of faith repeats. You suddenly don't know what to believe in or trust anymore.

The concept of a superhero follows these same lines. Something needs to be done, but the rules of society is preventing people from doing so. So the hero rejects the norm because they have the power to do so, cuts through all the crap and does what they think is right. And the story, of course, often paints the hero's actions as just, even though reality is never that simple. It's a compelling power fantasy because normal people want to do that but can't.

So people reject religion, reject the system, and just believe in the hero. It's easy to trust one person over nebulous organizations.
 
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RexNovis

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,184
Honestly was not expecting so many to just agree with me or at least the just of my theory.

maybe it's more self evident than I realized
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,866
Because nobody makes anything else theses days ?

Even Fast And Furious is turning into a super hero franchise...

I get the wish for escapisms and all. But we can get that from something else than super heroes.
 
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RexNovis

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,184
Because nobody makes anything else theses days ?

Even Fast And Furious is turning into a super hero franchise...

I get the wish for escapisms and all. But we can get that from something else than super heroes.

mid argue that the prevalence and popularity of crime dramas on Television is yet another reaction to the sense of hopelessness. In these crime dramas they get the bad guys and justice is always served. It's a reprieve from the reality that shows money outs others above the law and that people aren't subject to the same rules and governance.

so yea even looking to other popular genres or the popular political figures of the day I think there's a pretty common thread that hints at the predominant feelings of frustration and hopelessness in the populace at large.

like I said this is just something that's been on my mind lately and I think it's a pretty strong indicator that people by and large want change and feel we desperately need it
 
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RexNovis

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,184
I think you have a point there, and it's a concept I remember being taught in college.

People decades ago went though something similar when religion started to decline. People started losing faith in religion, leading to a similar sense of loss, and similarly caused people to reach for something else to rely on and believe in. For some, that something became the establishment. The mentality going "we can't rely on gods anymore, so we will figure out how to live our lives ourselves."

And more recently, there is now a loss of faith in the establishment. When the social structures meant to protect you start turning out to be doing the opposite, the same loss of faith repeats. You suddenly don't know what to believe in or trust anymore.

The concept of a superhero follows these same lines. Something needs to be done, but the rules of society is preventing people from doing so. So the hero rejects the norm because they have the power to do so, cuts through all the crap and does what they think is right. And the story, of course, often paints the hero's actions as just, even though reality is never that simple. It's a compelling power fantasy because normal people want to do that but can't.

So people reject religion, reject the system, and just believe in the hero. It's easy to trust one person over nebulous organizations.

makes you wonder what people will try to place their faith in next. My fear of that, as evidenced by international trends, it will be in facism and "strongmen"type dictators. I really hope this doesn't come to fruition though.

I think the next few years will be absolutely vital for creating acause folks can truly rally around in order to avoid it though. In ideal future that would be a fight to curb climate change and invest in renewable energy
 

Krestfallen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14
Q/A from Alan Moore's interview in 2016 seems relatable.

What was the impact of popular heroes comic books in our culture? Why are people fascinated by alternative realities?

I think the impact of superheroes on popular culture is both tremendously embarrassing and not a little worrying. While these characters were originally perfectly suited to stimulating the imaginations of their twelve or thirteen year-old audience, today's franchised übermenschen, aimed at a supposedly adult audience, seem to be serving some kind of different function, and fulfilling different needs. Primarily, mass-market superhero movies seem to be abetting an audience who do not wish to relinquish their grip on (a) their relatively reassuring childhoods, or (b) the relatively reassuring 20th century. The continuing popularity of these movies to me suggests some kind of deliberate, self-imposed state of emotional arrest, combined with an numbing condition of cultural stasis that can be witnessed in comics, movies, popular music and, indeed, right across the cultural spectrum. The superheroes themselves – largely written and drawn by creators who have never stood up for their own rights against the companies that employ them, much less the rights of a Jack Kirby or Jerry Siegel or Joe Schuster – would seem to be largely employed as cowardice compensators, perhaps a bit like the handgun on the nightstand. I would also remark that save for a smattering of non-white characters (and non-white creators) these books and these iconic characters are still very much white supremacist dreams of the master race. In fact, I think that a good argument can be made for D.W. Griffith's Birth of a Nation as the first American superhero movie, and the point of origin for all those capes and masks.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,524
I've been thinking a lot about how popular media reflects the conscious and subconscious desires of the populace. On some level, provided a non propagandist state, the widespread success of popular media tends to be driven by its ability to speak to fulfill the desires of the people.

If we look back to the 1990s we see a celebration of the military and an elevation of militaristic personalities and leaders across much of popular media (movies, TV etc). Nowadays pop culture is dominated by the concept of "super heroes." Provided my previous supposition is correct this fixation should give us insight into the thoughts, motivations and desires of the populace at large. So I'm left wondering why superheroes seem to resonate so much with the modern person.

My theory is this: people have lost hope in the establishment. They have accepted that no normal person could ever "save" them or fix the widespread corruption and imbalance of power/influence they see in the world around them. In the face of such a reality the fantasy of a super hero becomes a powerful one. Suddenly you have someone who doesn't follow the normal rules of what is and isn't possible. Suddenly there is hope that change is possible.

I think the same hopelessness holds true for young kids who feel ostracized or bullied and feel as though no authority figure can really help them which helps explain why super heroes are so popular with kids who tend to stand out and not fit in as much.

Another thing that backs up this idea that a desire for change is a primary motivator for the populace at large is in recent elections. Barack Obama's initial campaign saw him achieve historic levels of voter turnout under a platform of "change" and Trump saw the sort of success he saw in large part due to his status as an "outsider" who would "drain the swamp" and mix things up.

It's clear to me the public is growing increasingly disenchanted with the status quo and there is a widespread sentiment that change is needed. Many may disagree about the sort of change that should occur but lost agree that things cannot continue as they are. And so in the face of what seems more and more to be an indefatigable globalized bureaucracy governed increasingly by rapidly consolidating wealth is it any wonder that people look to heroes to escape their grim reality?

What are your thoughts? Do you agree that the popularity of media gives an insight into the minds and hearts of the people? Do you agree with me about why the idea of a superhero is so appealing to modern society?

Heroes are a fictional construct we flock to because we understand that most worldly injustices will never see any sort of meaningful conclusion.


Because special effects can keep up.

Couldn't do these characters justice a few decades ago. They were mostly campy as fuck.

We had westerns then.

Those heroes were just as stereotypically noble as MCU heroes are now.

We just didn't really mind if they were tied to racism back then.


I think the next few years will be absolutely vital for creating acause folks can truly rally around in order to avoid it though. In ideal future that would be a fight to curb climate change and invest in renewable energy

I honestly don't think this is possible without a very real cataclysm happening. Australia had fires the size of 1/3rd of the US ravaging it and no one wanted to talk about it.
 

affeinvasion

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,951
Superheroes have been popular since the advent of storytelling. It's just that the filmmaking technology has finally caught up with our imaginations.
 
Many of the contemporary takes on super heroes, Marvel especially, seem based on the idea of people with power being responsible rather than exploitative and dishonest.

It's not just about having the power to punch your problems. It is "authority" figures who actually are worth looking up to.

A recurring narrative in these movies paints traditional government as corrupt or out of touch. There are often conversations in modern super hero media about whether super heroes are just vigilantes or if they're something more that is needed by society.
 
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RexNovis

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,184
Q/A from Alan Moore's interview in 2016 seems relatable.
Well that's an extremely pessimistic and impugning way of interpreting things. I can't say I really agree with that assessment as many of the folks into the modern super hero pop culture were not into it as children so this idea of them harkening back to childhood or whatever seems I'll conceived.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
Being able to blame nearly a century of horrible US foreign policy on a Nazi supergroup is an easy answer compared acknowledging America's own historic or ideological failings.

You know, I think this is why while I'm not going to come out and say Winter Soldier didn't have a point, I left feeling underwhelmed and patronized by the film.
 
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RexNovis

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,184
Many of the contemporary takes on super heroes, Marvel especially, seem based on the idea of people with power being responsible rather than exploitative and dishonest.

It's not just about having the power to punch your problems. It is "authority" figures who actually are worth looking up to.

A recurring narrative in these movies paints traditional government as corrupt or out of touch. There are often conversations in modern super hero media about whether super heroes are just vigilantes or if they're something more that is needed by society.
So it's an appeal to an authority that's deemed as having moral authority? That's an interesting observation.
 
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RexNovis

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,184
I mean... to a point. Yeah, it's called escapism. Obviously.

I'll certainly admit there's absolutely a catharsis in watching Daredevil beat the everloving shit out of a wealthy capitalist who manages to manipulate a system to his own ends, with Matt screaming into his face in rage and triumph "This city rejected you. It beat you! I beat you!"

There's no shortage of people who found power in the image of Black Panther or Wonder Woman fighting against apathy and injustice.


Thing is, Marvel's own relationship with politics in their films is still messy. DC is kinda not part of the conversation in a meaningful way right now. But either way, the movies inherently are built on personifying systemic failings as punchable problems rather than having to consider long-term reconciliation or introspection. Being able to blame nearly a century of horrible US foreign policy on a Nazi supergroup is an easy answer compared acknowledging America's own historic or ideological failings.

I think yes you're right but I don't see it as a cop out I see it as people just not knowing how to really right the ship so to speak or even not believing they have any power to do so to begin with.

I guess what you see as willful ignorance I interpret as perceived helplessness and frustration. I think people just want something or someone to really believe in as a solution or a moral authority and reality nowadays offers nothing to fulfill that desire.

edit: oops sorry for the double post
 

Addi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,244
I don't think I have such a benevolent read of the phenomenon as you. Is it really the general audience that influences what the studios are going to create or is it Hollywood and mass media that actually dictacte taste?
 

Baccus

Banned
Dec 4, 2018
5,307
The world getting increasingly complex for many people let them to project their fond memories of their childhood into comfortable heroic archetypes adapted to their reality.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,138
It's marketing. They spend a shit tonne of money to market these characters to you. People would drop super heroes like a bad joke if those companies stopped marketing them.
 

TestMonkey

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,178
It's just the modern version of western, war and kung fu flicks. A few individuals can successfully battle the system because of their righteousness.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,229
What are your thoughts? Do you agree that the popularity of media gives an insight into the minds and hearts of the people? Do you agree with me about why the idea of a superhero is so appealing to modern society?

I don't necessarily agree with that being the primary reason, although it could be one of them. People like their big blockbuster films, and when they actually happen to be full of charismatic actors and are typically well directed and produced it almost doesn't matter what the genre is. Each decade had a genre fad, although in the case of comic book films, they seemed to actually emerge quality wise in the early 00s, and gained popularity up until the point we are now at.

Growing up as a comic book loving nerd, the Marvel films were always the kind of movies I wanted to see anyway, but it just took a really long time to reach this point. I have wondered for a while though how much longer these kinds of films are going to be able to hold the general public's interest (but then just think about how it's likely not even just the super hero aspect that keeps the general audience going). While Marvel makes "good" films, only a select few are what I would consider "great", and they seem content mainly keeping the status quo. With how much muscle Disney has with controlling theaters now, do we even really have much of a choice in the matter though?

It's marketing. They spend a shit tonne of money to market these characters to you. People would drop super heroes like a bad joke if those companies stopped marketing them.

It's not just marketing. One only has to look at the two awful Batman films after Returns.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,138
It's not just marketing. One only has to look at the two awful Batman films after Returns.
And Warner Media still markets him. There are literally 100s and 100s of super heroes and villains, have you ever wondered why they aren't well known? Because mindshare and marketing.


You can even look at Ironman, Thor, and Captain America: relatively no-names until the Disney machine got them and marketed them as if they were the biggest and most well known things. What about Avatar? It wasn't just James Cameron's name that sold it, that's not how it works. Well timed and placed marketing is nearly 100% the reason you know about any kind of media out there. People RARELY (extremely rarely) just happen upon a mega hit that's been hiding in the woods for a long time.
 

Vinx

Member
Sep 9, 2019
1,417
For America, its because they have been a part of our popular culture for almost 100 years and our nation is only less than 250 years old.

People think that this fascination with comic book movies is recent phenomenon but people have always been clamoring for comic book movies ...just with a certain modicum of quality.

The Superman and Batman serials from late 40s were very popular.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,229
And Warner Media still markets him. There are literally 100s and 100s of super heroes and villains, have you ever wondered why they aren't well known? Because mindshare and marketing.


You can even look at Ironman, Thor, and Captain America: relatively no-names until the Disney machine got them and marketed them as if they were the biggest and most well known things. What about Avatar? It wasn't just James Cameron's name that sold it, that's not how it works. Well timed and placed marketing is nearly 100% the reason you know about any kind of media out there. People RARELY (extremely rarely) just happen upon a mega hit that's been hiding in the woods for a long time.

I wasn't completely disagreeing with you. Duh, marketing makes a difference, but it's not the sole reason behind these films being so successful. Batman was already one of the most recognized comic book heroes before Tim Burton's first film. Only Superman was more well known, and Spider-Man was somewhere in the mix too.

Marketing isn't why the third and fourth dumpster fires had such a critical backlash, and despite making money, it wasn't enough for them to continue with more sequels. Also, on what planet was Iron Man, Thor and Captain America relative "no-names"? They weren't "household names" known to virtually everyone like they are now, but they were some of the most popular comic book characters that also happened to be in a ton of video games, animated shows and also had other various merchandise from the early 80s.

For America, its because they have been a part of our popular culture for almost 100 years and our nation is only less than 250 years old.

People think that this fascination with comic book movies is recent phenomenon but people have always been clamoring for comic book movies ...just with a certain modicum of quality.

The Superman and Batman serials from late 40s were very popular.

Yes, exactly. The first superhero film that was decent was the original Reeve's Superman, but then it wasn't until Sam Rami's Spider-Man where a more fantastical (closer to the comics) version could be set to film and look good.

Anyone remember this shit?
 
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Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
It's only Marvel's super heroes that are dominating. The other comic book companies just can't compete.

lol what are you talking about

do you know how many fucking superhero tv shows there are that aren't marble

nevermind stuff like Overwatch that became kind of a phenomenon for a while and that was basically an original superhero ip, plus aquaman and joker making a billion
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,229
lol what are you talking about

do you know how many fucking superhero tv shows there are that aren't marble

nevermind stuff like Overwatch that became kind of a phenomenon for a while and that was basically an original superhero ip, plus aquaman and joker making a billion

Marvel is dominating the theaters, but DC has been dominating the small screen, and especially animated films for almost a decade. Nolan's trilogy was also a relative high water mark that Marvel was playing catch up to.
 

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
Marvel is dominating the theaters, but DC has been dominating the small screen, and especially animated films for almost a decade.

And it's not even like Marvel is doing well at the expense of everyone else, either. F&F, DC, all that shit still makes a ton of money.
Marvel is just starting to finally take games seriously with Spider-Man and Iron Man VR, a space that, while Batman dominated absolutely, WB has been investing into for like 10 years.
 

Gotchaye

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
This is obviously wrong. Superheroes dominate popular culture because they appeal to all kinds of people, not just those who feel hopeless about the direction the world is heading. This is just not that widespread of an outlook -- superheroes are everywhere precisely because they appeal to more than just the kids who don't fit in. They're popular in other countries too. China is a very important market for these movies, and people there certainly don't have this sense that things are now much worse than they used to be.

I don't know that there's much to explain here. Superhero movies don't strike me as qualitatively different from what we had before, except that now we have the technology to do visually impressive fantasy instead of westerns, or kung-fu, or Rambo-type stuff. It's kind of a stretch to say that any of these other genres are about "normal" people -- their superpowers are unexplained except as the result of rigorous training but in almost all cases it's explicit in the text that they're far more capable than a normal person. And lots of superheroes are this sort of "normal" -- Iron Man is just really smart. People have liked black and white power fantasies for a very long time.

I guess I'd say that the main things driving superheroes are that they're easy to sell internationally, they make great use of modern CG, and there are decades of already-tested stories that can be adapted.

You say that you see yourself as looking at the media to try to get "insight into the minds and hearts of the people". But that's not what you're doing in the rest of the post. You're doing the reverse. You've got a theory about what's going on in the minds and hearts of the people and you're trying to get insight into the popularity of superheroes from that.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,061
I'm not sure just how dominant superheroes are in culture as a whole. I think we're really just talking about the MCU's current dominance of Hollywood. Ever since Iron Man 1 was a hit, comic books have been the latest wellspring for Hollywood to adapt from. Well, Spider-Man is really what set it off. IM1 is just what flipped it into overdrive.

Marvel and Disney found a formula that worked and mostly just spent 11 years remaking that movie. That formula plays well to visual effects and tends to have a story just simple enough to easily translate into a lot of different languages. The whole thing is effectively a TV series where each episode is a 120 minutes long and costs the price of a movie ticket to watch. I think it's just a trend.

If you wanna talk about the dominance of superheroes in comics, they're only dominant in American comics. And even there, you can trace it back to the comics code authority, which implemented decades of content restrictions that made most genres other than superheroes non-viable in American comics.

Many of the contemporary takes on super heroes, Marvel especially, seem based on the idea of people with power being responsible rather than exploitative and dishonest.

It's not just about having the power to punch your problems. It is "authority" figures who actually are worth looking up to.

What's funny is the MCU tries to play lip service to the fact that Tony Stark is totally not this.
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,375
One simplistic take is that when things are good in the world then people tend to have more of an appetite for serious fare. When things are stressful or difficult then they gravitate toward more escapist fare.
One thing worth noting is that superheroes are hardly the only escapist type of movies. Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Mad Max, Avatar, etc... are all escapist and let the viewer forget about reality and embrace a very simplified and straightforward story.
 
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RexNovis

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,184
I don't necessarily agree with that being the primary reason, although it could be one of them. People like their big blockbuster films, and when they actually happen to be full of charismatic actors and are typically well directed and produced it almost doesn't matter what the genre is. Each decade had a genre fad, although in the case of comic book films, they seemed to actually emerge quality wise in the early 00s, and gained popularity up until the point we are now at.

Growing up as a comic book loving nerd, the Marvel films were always the kind of movies I wanted to see anyway, but it just took a really long time to reach this point. I have wondered for a while though how much longer these kinds of films are going to be able to hold the general public's interest (but then just think about how it's likely not even just the super hero aspect that keeps the general audience going). While Marvel makes "good" films, only a select few are what I would consider "great", and they seem content mainly keeping the status quo. With how much muscle Disney has with controlling theaters now, do we even really have much of a choice in the matter though?



It's not just marketing. One only has to look at the two awful Batman films after Returns.
Solid points to be sure. But I do think there's something to be said when you look at popular media across different time frames. My point about the war dramatizations was that it mirrored a national fixation one war on the Middle East with people polarized as being for against what seemed like the defining issue of the time.
But looking back to the popular films of the mid to late 80s you see an influx of Scoence fiction with both dystopian and utopian views on what the future might look like. I see this as a reflection of the advent of the computer and the boundless imagination of what the future might look like if technology continued to advance at such break neck speeds. Folks were either optimistic or concerned about what an increasingly technological society might mean and the media reflected that zeitgeist.

I've long held the belief that when it comes to popular media artists aren't so much creating something that people flock to as they are channeling what people already want even if they don't necessarily know it yet. The themes and lyrics of popular music similarly reflect this as I theorize movies do. There are, of course, plenty of artists that are creating unique stuff but the truly popular and successful ones are so because they give people what they really want. I think movies are an especially telling medium because they are quintessential escapism and as such the truly successful ones more directly play into the cultural desires of their time. Video games are also escapism but the actual mechanics at play allow for more fine grain differentiation as opposed to just the stories and topics and it's only recently (in the grand scheme of the topic we are discussing) that storytelling in games has been a driving factor for popularity. So I don't feel like they are as easily demonstrative of an example as films are.

even before films were popular media you can see the same cultural touch points in literature of the times. Looking back at the sorts of literature popular in different eras tends to tell you a lot about the sorts of things people were really concerned with.

tldr: I think popular art (especially storytelling) is popular because it reflects the desires of the populace at large more so than any other factor.

Would you agree with that or do you think I'm off base?
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,416
The English Wilderness
51A0O%2B10zDL._SX314_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
 
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RexNovis

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,184
One simplistic take is that when things are good in the world then people tend to have more of an appetite for serious fare. When things are stressful or difficult then they gravitate toward more escapist fare.
One thing worth noting is that superheroes are hardly the only escapist type of movies. Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Mad Max, Avatar, etc... are all escapist and let the viewer forget about reality and embrace a very simplified and straightforward story.
Yes I would agree with this generalization but I think if we look past the general escapism these popular films provide and delve mite into the overarching themes, characters etc that popular films of any period share a pattern emerges that gives finer insight into the thoughts, feelings and desires of the public at large.

it seems however that many do not agree with me on that.
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,375
Yes I would agree with this generalization but I think if we look past the general escapism these popular films provide and delve mite into the overarching themes, characters etc that popular films of any period share a pattern emerges that gives finer insight into the thoughts, feelings and desires of the public at large.

it seems however that many do not agree with me on that.
I agree that it's not just random chance. I do think that there's a bit of an element of technology/budgets. While there were popular Superhero movies in the past (Superman in 78 and Batman in 89, for example) they were held back a bit by the difficulty of special effects and the massive budgets that it would take to make them. Now the technology is there and the movie business has shifted toward studios happily spending $150-200 million for what is a likely chance to earn $1 billion rather than aiming for more movies with a lower budget for each.

So while I agree that you can glean cultural shifts from it I think it's good to also consider those more basic issues that have been resolved but in the past were barriers to the creation of these types of movies.
 

Lord Fagan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,367
I think that at this point of human history, an era of tremendous social and technological flux, mankind is likely to be drawn to and find meaning in stories that are built on a foundation of transformation. That's a theme that permeates origin stories, and in a larger context for the MCU, the greater meta narrative is about a world transformed. Life is categorically different when you look at the world before Iron Man, and after Endgame.

Cap sums it up quite nicely when he notes that he liked it better when the strangest thing science ever came up with was him. I think that sentiment transcends his own identity and abilities, and speaks to a greater feeling that the world one inhabits is a bizarre, frightening, and wondrous place regardless of what we might prefer otherwise.
 

CrazyDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,737
It was Westerns, then it was the action movies, now it's super heroes. There is always a dominate genre, eventually it will be something else.
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,375
Mad Max is about the world gone to hell due to environmental degradation. The last movie is about a savage warlord who hoards water chasing after his escapee harem.

I wouldn't include it with the likes of Avatar and Marvel.
It's not meant to be a sleight against them but to me Mad Max is escapist just as Avatar (which is also about environmental issues) is escapist. Captain Marvel could be said to be about women's equality, war refugees, etc.. but ultimately it's still escapist fare.