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ZhugeEX

Senior Analyst at Niko Partners
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
3,099
There has been a lot said about single player games recently when many calling them dead or saying they're not as viable as they once were. I always get asked about this and so I thought I'd take some time to put together my own thoughts. I'm interested in seeing if this helps contextualise some of the talk we've been seeing aroudn the demise of single player games.

Hopefully this is a good thread to discuss this. I'll try and answer questions when I can.

Are single player games dead?

The short answer is no. The long answer is a lot more complicated.

When people talk about the industry moving away from single player games they are usually referring to third party, AAA, linear, Single Player, narrative driven, $60 games. Why this distinction? Because rising costs of video game development and increased expectations means that a lot of these games simply aren't as viable as other types of games. Gamers this generation value hours more than anything else. Online games with multiplayer are also more popular this generation. That's why the top 10 best selling games are all games like Call of Duty, Destiny, Madden, NBA, Overwatch, Battlefield etc...

These games, that offer unlimited hours of gameplay and ongoing service and content updates appeal to the mass market gamer. They're also less risky as a $100m investment doesn't solely rely on millions of $60 unit sales. These games generate a return on investment through post launch monetisation methods such as DLC, Season Passes, Microtransactions and Loot boxes. Whereas a single player game relies solely on unit sales at $60 assuming there is no post launch monetisation.

It's becoming increasingly hard to sell these third party AAA, linear, single player, narrative driven, $60 games and generate a healthy return on investment because the market for those games is now a lot smaller than it was with the mass market having moved to service games. That's why you don't see many of them at a AAA budget. Those that still do go for that AAA budget, such as Wolfenstein 2 for example, have underperformed and aren't selling as much as other AAA games.

As mentioned above, single player games aren't dead, but they've had to evolve beyond what they were last generation. With hours becoming more valuable we've seen single player games embrace open worlds, online or co-op components, post launch monetisation and larger and longer story content. That's why Assassin's Creed Origins has a long list of post launch content. That's why Shadow of War has loot boxes, that's why most of Sony's games now have open worlds or wide linear approaches compared to before and it's why games like The Witcher 3 and Final Fantasy XV have post launch DLC and other content. The Witcher 3 also benefits from being developed in Poland where development costs are lower, not to mention CDPR has additional revenue streams through GOG and the like. Adding on these elements makes the game more appealing to the mass market gamer of today and gives them a reason to buy these $60 single player games. All you have to do is look at the list of AAA third party single player games today to see that the above is true.

With the market for single player games smaller this gen than it was last gen, it also means that quality is a huge factor in a games success to. That's why games like Agents of Mayhem or Quantum Break, despite embracing those changes, can end up underperforming too. If you're releasing a single player game you need to hit a lot of checkboxes and be the top in its category if you want it to sell a certain amount. As above, with rising budgets and rising expectations, AAA budget single player games do need to sell a certain amount at $60 to be profitable. That number of units is always rising, especially when more and more people are waiting for that $30 sale. That's why they're incredibly risky and that's why there are less and less pure single player linear games in the third party AAA space.

This is why AAA third party publishers will greenlight a $100m service game over a $100m single player game. Because the service game market is larger and more lucrative, because people will buy more copies on day 1 than a single player game, because service games run for multiple years and can be monetised over that period, because new content updates can bring in new players etc... It's why games like Rainbow Six Siege, Grand Theft Auto V and Call of Duty Black Ops 3 are still on the current best sellers list years after release.

But what about game like Nier, Nioh and Persona 5?

These are not AAA budget games. They have much lower budgets and thus, lower expectations. They also don't sell on the same level as AAA titles to in terms of units / revenue. They also follow the same trend of moving away from the 5-10 hour linear game style to having an open world in the case of Nier, having an online component in the sense of Nioh and having hours and hours or RPG content in the case of Persona. Ultimately, games in this segment are also very hit and miss and there are plenty of AA and Indie single player games that haven't been successful. A good number have and this is a space where we can expect to see more single player games. The games market is huge and so AA and Indie single player games aren't leaving any time soon.

What about first party?

Everyone uses Uncharted 4 as an example of why single player, linear, narrative driven, $60 games are not going away. However, using this as an example is a bit odd. You'll notice in my post above that every time I referred to single player linear games I threw in the phrase 'third party'. That's because there is a huge difference between first party and third party. These differences are.

1. First Party has a unique strategy in that it wants to create software that does not directly compete with third party so it can sell consoles and drive larger installed bases that buy first party software, third party software, PS Plus subs, online content etc... Therefore first party always targets underserved audiences and tries to be unique to make the console more appealing.

2. First party does not need to pay a license fee to distribute games on its own console. Whilst third party games need to pay Sony $10 for each game they sell, first party does not. This means First party games have much higher margins and can generally be profitable more quickly.

This is why Sony and Nintendo have many more single player games compared to any other AA or AAA publisher out there. It's also why they take more risks (Death Stranding) than third party AAA publishers. But that doesn't mean that Sony and Nintendo are immune to market changes. They too have noted that AAA, single player, linear, narrative driven, $60 games are becoming less and less popular. You can see that Zelda Breath of the Wild embraced an open world and DLC. You can see that Sony's new IP, Horizon had an open world too. They've done this to appeal to more gamers, they've also designed the games to have tons of content and replayability. Just look at Sony's other single player games line up, they all focus on hours of content these days. Having a 5-10 hour single player only game doesn't cut it. Even God of War is 25 to 35 hours or something like that.

When you look at Uncharted, they added in a multiplayer mode that has tons of microtransactions, they've made the game more wide linear and they focused more on longer and deeper content. All of this is to increase the appeal of the game and make it more financially viable. Uncharted can work for Sony because they can generate a profit from it and also use it to sell PlayStations and everything that comes with that. That's why Uncharted 4 is bundled, that's why the Uncharted Collection was too. Sony want as many people to buy and experience these games so they can bring new users into the ecosystem and upsell to other content, whatever that may be.

So no. Single player games aren't dead. They're just evolving. Single Player, Linear, Narrative driven, AAA, $60 games are not as successful as they once were and so you won't see many from third party AAA studios. If you do see single player games from AAA third party studios you'll see them have open worlds, multiplayer / co-op, DLC and Microtransactions, longer and deeper stories and more. You'll also still see single player games at a AA / Indie level and they'll still come from first parties of course.
 

ashtaar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,518
Thanks for this zhuge I pretty much agree with everything you said
Launching a AAA game is hard and it pretty much had to go off perfectly or have a huge cache to be half as successful as a big multiplayer game
 

Fdkn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
718
Spain
That was a good write up but I fail to find the way in that it can drive a discussion, because all those thing are very true and also sort of 'evident' for anyone that took enough time to analyze the trends.

It was very much needed because of the constant derailing of many threads about the subject, tho.
 
OP
OP
ZhugeEX

ZhugeEX

Senior Analyst at Niko Partners
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
3,099
That was a good write up but I fail to find the way in that it can drive a discussion, because all those thing are very true and also sort of 'evident' for anyone that took enough time to analyze the trends.

It was very much needed because of the constant derailing of many threads about the subject, tho.

Yeh. I kind of wrote this in 5 minutes to reply to someone in the Uncharted thread and then wasn't sure what to do with it. Figured a new thread might spark some discussion or something.
 

Deleted member 419

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,009
To supplement the points you made in the OP - I think, in the context of 2017, there is a completely unrelated issue that is adversely affecting the perception of third-party AAA games and their financial viability.

That issue? Bethesda's disastrous review policy.

"Third-party AAA games," this year, at least in the context of single-player, 10-20 hour campaigns, were effectively Bethesda games. Other than Mass Effect: Andromeda, Bethesda's hat trick of Prey, The Evil Within 2, and especially Wolfenstein II (also throw in Dishonored 2 at the end of last year if you prefer), were arguably the most well-known releases in this category in 2017, and all suffered from a complete lack of pre-release review buzz. Not because they were bad, but because critics were not permitted to communicate to the general public how good they were. All three (or four counting Dishonored 2) reviewed fairly well, with TEW2 being the most divisive but still being ultimately well-received.

Most of this narrative about the death of the AAA third-party game has revolved around this recent string of underperforming games from Bethesda. While the market for AAA third-party games is certainly changing in critical ways, it's also very important to note that those Bethesda releases all suffered from an asinine marketing policy that potentially adversely affected pre-release buzz, and consequently launch sales, in a major way.

In other words - the most heavily-publicized single-player "flops" of the year, which precipitated this entire doomsday discussion, had another veeery extenuating circumstance at play affecting their commercial performance.
 

NinjaCoachZ

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,777
Nice writeup. As someone who mainly plays AA games, indies, Japanese games, and first-party games, I've never felt too affected by the "death of AAA single-player", but I definitely see how it can be a downer and in stark contrast to how last gen was. The nice thing though is that AA and indie games have been getting more attention and I feel are becoming much more ambitious and capable of filling the void. So I think it is very true that they are not "dead", but evolving, and the space that various types of games occupy is shifting and readjusting.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
I'm actually hoping for a resurgence of lower priced ($30-$40), lower budgeted single player experiences. by not needing to target the widest market, we can get some games that are more unique in their experience. however, 3D games are still much more expensive than they ever been and large-ish companies most likely wouldnt see the value of those games when they could spend that development budget on more expensive, higher profit service games.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
Agreed, thanks for this. I've tried to make a lot of these points but people don't seem to want to hear them, so thanks for putting your weight behind this.

You may wanna also include a bit about why Hellblade isn't a good model for every dev, since people keep bringing it up as a counter argument. Like how long it took to be profitable, how that's not sustainable, and how not every dev has the background and resources of Ninja Theory. ZhugeEX
 

corasaur

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,988
fingers crossed for more medium-budget single-player stuff. open worlds get exhausting and there's only so many multiplayer games i have the energy to git gud at.

That was a good write up but I fail to find the way in that it can drive a discussion, because all those thing are very true and also sort of 'evident' for anyone that took enough time to analyze the trends.

It was very much needed because of the constant derailing of many threads about the subject, tho
.

i kind of figured that was the purpose of an admin posting a thread that basically boils down to "please learn these market realities so we can have better threads."
 

WestEgg

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,047
I wonder if games focusing on hours played is having the effect of people buying less games in general as the ones they have take up more time? I can appreciate that even first party titles are evolving to the tastes of the market, but I hope the 5-10 hour platformers stick around. I don't know how much it costs to make a game like Rayman Legends or Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, but these are some of my favorite games this generation.
 

C4lukin

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
613
Tejas
I want to say first off I agree with the OP.

It is a complicated issue but you hit most of the points.

On a seperate issue though, it should be known to read the original post. People should not have to be reminded to do so.

Just make it law.
 

Ahasverus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,599
Colombia
I'm not against everything being open world if devs use it well. AC Origins had a fantastic ooen world, while. HZD didn't. There's a whole lot of difference.
 

Knight613

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,768
San Francisco
I definitely don't expect that many third party AAA single player games anymore, and the ones that do come out will definitely have added multiplayer or microtransactions, but as long as the first party studios are stepping up I don't really see anything wrong with it.
 

Ultraviolence

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,213
I can get behind GaaS stuff after we get some regulation for these awful lootboxes that go beyond cosmetics and affect actual player progression. There is obviously still place for Single Player games but GaaS as the norm will only increase so I'm really hoping action gets taken on that issue.
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,993
North Carolina
Pretty great points. Can't really argue with it. Hopefully we will see people with more informed opinions on the matter around the forum/

The thing about 1st party single player titles is actually a really, REALLY good point. Sony and Nintendo not only don't have to pay a fee to publish, but get consoles sales because of their single player games. Zelda and Mario being incredible hits certainly helped sell a ton of Switch consoles. 3rd parties don;t get that benefit.
 

Peace

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
978
France
When people say that the cost of AAA are too high, what is that expensive ? Is it textures, open-world filling or something else ?

Anyway, I perfectly understand people value multiplayer games. You can play while discussing with your friends on discord, you discover new people, you share good memorable moment with them etc. It's hard to compete with that.
 

Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
ZhugeEX thanks for this thread. I feel like a clearer look at how investments and returns work in the current market is very useful for people who might want to avoid knee-jerk reactions about how they feel the market should work.

Put another way: If you want to criticize a market, understand it first.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,170
pretty much what i've been saying all year

SP isn't dying, and i find the notion kind of laughable. AAA mega budget productions based on a fairly singular experience (like, say, Bioshock Infinite, off the top of my head) definitely are. i expect sony and nintendo to keep them alive via first party, and perhaps we'll see more middle ground stuff like Hellblade. but no publisher will bank on them anymore
 

TC McQueen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,592
When people say that the cost of AAA are too high, what is that expensive ? Is it textures, open-world filling or something else ?
Asset creation, mostly. There's hundreds of people making the assets, which include textures, because there's so much stuff that has to go into modern games.

Animations are also a big money sink if you don't do motion capture, use an AI to handle face stuff, or have a decent system for procedurally generating them.
 

Vanillalite

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,709
I find this sorta true, but sorta straw man.

I mean if we go back to say the 16 bit era we didn't have AAA per se. So like games were on a more equal footing (I get it wasn't exactly the same) in terms of budget.

You knew which were the major franchises and which weren't though. Like you knew the major JRPGs and which weren't.

E.V.O. was second tier Enix compared to 1st tier DQ. You just couldn't tell by budget per se. Now you can. Like Lost Sphere isn't FF/DQ for SE. You just now have the AAA distinction to add onto this discussion in terms of funding. Even back in the day not every title was on the same level though.

We're still getting those same JRPGs. FFXV still had an AAA budget. I Am Setsuna didn't cause it was a 2nd tier JRPG. You're still getting both games like you did back in the day though.
 

Deleted member 6730

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
11,526
I'm ok with the death of games like The Order which only a few were ever worth the money. What I'm not ok with is companies using marketing speak like "games as a service" to effectively price gouge the players
 

Deleted member 5398

user requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
176
Yeah its very clear that "one and done" style of single-player games is going the way of the dodo. Getting players to stay on your game is a huge influence for continued success (Rainbow Six Siege can attest to that).

As much as some hate it, GaaS (in whatever form it takes) is the way of the future for this industry (or the AAA-big budget market at least).
 

ShadowMurloc

Member
Oct 30, 2017
186
Sydney Australia
Gaming as a whole is evolving. This won't suit everyone unfortunately.
Thanks to Sony, Nintendo, Rockstar, FROM and the rest for providing the kind of experience I want.
 

Vanillalite

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,709
Yeah its very clear that "one and done" style of single-player games is going the way of the dodo. Getting players to stay on your game is a huge influence for continued success (Rainbow Six Siege can attest to that).

As much as some hate it, GaaS (in whatever form it takes) is the way of the future for this industry (or the AAA-big budget market at least).

Is it though? Or is it that we have qualifiers to differentiate titles more in terms of semantics.

I mean not every game back in the day necessarily cost the same to buy nor had the same amount of work done. Even on the NES you knew what were say tier 1 Konami or Capcom titles and which weren't. Now you just categorize shit different with qualifiers.
 

Robert81

Member
Nov 2, 2017
317
I'm a one and done gamer. Just beat the new South Park game. I'll never play it again. I'm good with that. I feel the 24 hours I got out of that game was a good value. Same goes for those two yakuza games that got released this year, great games I'll never play again. I have no intention of playing only one game for hours at a time. Too many great games come out and not enough time to play them. Only destiny 2 I play a lot.that because it's a easy online game to play. I hate almost all gaas , I suck at playing them and I don't have lots of time to invest in them to get better. I'm hoping that the rise in people purchasing their game digital will help save single player games. That way they can't sell their games back to gamestop.
 

Dark_Castle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,147
How do we know if a game is considered AAA? Is Rise of the Tomb Raider considered AAA for instance? Or Ni No Kuni 2?
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,170
Is it though? Or is it that we have qualifiers to differentiate titles more in terms of semantics.

I mean not every game back in the day necessarily cost the same to buy nor had the same amount of work done. Even on the NES you knew what were say tier 1 Konami or Capcom titles and which weren't. Now you just categorize shit different with qualifiers.

i think the point is days of publishers reliably slotting their release schedule with "one and done" high budget titles are over. you're just not getting a safe return on investment any more
 
Oct 27, 2017
822
Is it though? Or is it that we have qualifiers to differentiate titles more in terms of semantics.

I mean not every game back in the day necessarily cost the same to buy nor had the same amount of work done. Even on the NES you knew what were say tier 1 Konami or Capcom titles and which weren't. Now you just categorize shit different with qualifiers.

The prevalence of qualifiers, separating games in tier by publisher or developer etc. I think is a key point and a reality to this. The border between AAA and AA is a little too murky and indefinite, and further, the standards for AAA aren't really universal for some regions, especially Japan where I think Persona 5 is viewed by Atlus to be a AAA game but for the West it's viewed as AA and I personally wouldn't be able to definitively affirm one view over the other.
 

Deleted member 2620

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How do we know if a game is considered AAA? Is Rise of the Tomb Raider considered AAA for instance? Or Ni No Kuni 2?

It's a phrase used in a very, very flexible manner to make allllll kinds of arguments. The absolute highest tier of gaming budgets being more focused on multiplayer gaming isn't meaningful to me when there are still a lot of single-player games with very high production values.
 

Silky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,522
Georgia
How do we know if a game is considered AAA? Is Rise of the Tomb Raider considered AAA for instance? Or Ni No Kuni 2?


Use a bit of common sense mostly

Japanese titles have always been modest-budgeted compared to western titles

Square Enix being a huge megapublisher obviously fronts way more cash for their games than someone like Atlus or Falcom
 

KratosEnergyDrink

Using an alt account to circumvent a ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
I don't get it why Wolfenstein is constantly mentioned in this context. It think its obviously a very niche and "nerdy" game and no one should have expected to be a multimillion seller. This seems to be absurd.

Its like someone is baffled that a movie about nazi space zombies don't get a multimillion audience. Wolfenstein is not about nazi space zombies, but has probably a very similar audience.

(Nonetheless I will probably buy it next year for Switch)
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 2620

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Do we even know that Wolfenstein 2's budget is comparable to massive games like Destiny? That seems like an absurd assumption.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,827
Wow, that's a genuinely great write up, OP. I kind of figured a good amount of that stuff a while back but the extra clarification you offer helps. Kind of a shame that big linear single-player titles aren't as viable these days for major publishers, as I feel that there are certainly some benefits to more linear games, such as, say, Super Mario Galaxy compared to Super Mario Odyssey when it comes to tight and focused level design and I don't quite know if smaller teams and indie developers can necessarily make up for that. I like a lot of what they do but they don't quite have the scale bigger developers can offer
 

Peace

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
978
France
I don't get it why Wolfenstein is constantly mentioned in this context. It think its obviously a very niche and "nerdy" game and no one should have expected to be a multimillion seller. This seems to be absurd.

I even read post like "You didn't buy Wolfenstein ? You want SP game to die ? Wake up". I won't support game I don't find appealing just for the sake of it. I already bought BOTW and Persona 5 this year.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,373
Do we even know that Wolfenstein 2's budget is comparable to massive games like Destiny? That seems like an absurd assumption.
Ok so how is the most expensive game released this year by of the most well known studios in the gaming industry supposed to be niche? Hell yes a title like Wolfenstein is expensive. Full performance capture for multiple timelines isn't cheap. Neither were those visuals. Or that marketing campaign.
 

Deleted member 2620

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Ok so how is the most expensive game released by of the most well known studios in the gaming industry supposed to be niche? Hell yes a title like Wolfenstein is expensive. Full performance capture for multiple timelines isn't cheap. Neither were those visuals. Or that marketing campaign.

lol of COURSE Wolfenstein is expensive, what an absolutely incredible way to frame my post! I'm reeling.
 

Deleted member 5398

user requested account closure
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Is it though? Or is it that we have qualifiers to differentiate titles more in terms of semantics.

I mean not every game back in the day necessarily cost the same to buy nor had the same amount of work done. Even on the NES you knew what were say tier 1 Konami or Capcom titles and which weren't. Now you just categorize shit different with qualifiers.

GaaS is the future 100%.

I would love to see the return of B-tier games at a cheaper cost (30/40 bucks) but even that style of game is subject to the same treatment, as day 1 sales matter less and less, publishers will find ways to soak more money out of their properties, even "B-tier" properties.

I don't really see it as "GaaS works for AAA-big budget games only" I see it as "the principals of GaaS makes too much sense and we would be idiots to not implement that in any of our games". Now what form it takes (MTX/DLC road map/Always online/Limited time events) is another discussion.
 

Uno Venova

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,858
These conversations would really be helped if developer budgets were more common knowledge like they are for movies.
 

Vanillalite

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,709
Use a bit of common sense mostly

Japanese titles have always been modest-budgeted compared to western titles

Square Enix being a huge megapublisher obviously fronts way more cash for their games than someone like Atlus or Falcom

I mean it's not like Doom I had this huge budget compared to say idk SFII HF which released the same year.

I think a lot of people are putting recenctcy bias on this relative to the topic at hand.
 

Vanillalite

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,709
GaaS is the future 100%.

I would love to see the return of B-tier games at a cheaper cost (30/40 bucks) but even that style of game is subject to the same treatment, as day 1 sales matter less and less, publishers will find ways to soak more money out of their properties, even "B-tier" properties.

I don't really see it as "GaaS works for AAA-big budget games only" I see it as "the principals of GaaS makes too much sense and we would be idiots to not implement that in any of our games". Now what form it takes (MTX/DLC road map/Always online/Limited time events) is another discussion.

They already exist they just can be made and distributed even cheaper than than via digital downloads.

Let's take Nintendo for example. Not everything on the NES was Mario, Zelda, Castlevania, Mega Man level of a title. Same thing on my Switch. Not everything I play I'd Mario or Zelda. There's a shit ton of eShop shit that's the same level of b tier NES titles.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,373
lol of COURSE Wolfenstein is expensive, what an absolutely incredible way to frame my post! I'm reeling.
I imagine it's not too far off in comparison. Destiny 2 is obviously the much bigger and well known game, but that doesn't mean that Wolfenstein is nerdy or niche in anyway.

These conversations would really be helped if developer budgets were more common knowledge like they are for movies.
The way the gaming community largely misunderstands how budgets work makes this a relatively bad idea.
 

Silencerx98

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
Very well written OP, Zhuge! Pretty informative on the state of the market today. Personally, I love this "evolution" of single player, narrative driven games as it not only increases playtime, but the wide linear approach also allows multiple ways to finish an objective/encounter. I do hope devs continue evolving on this concept rather than jumping onboard with games as a service model as the easy way out.
 

xeroborn55

Member
Oct 27, 2017
952
This whole gaas phenomena reminds me of the mmorpg goldrush after WoW came out. A similar thing happened with mobas after LoL and dota 2.

Not every game/property is a good choice for the gaas model and its likely the market will not support every publisher throwing gaas bs into all the games, as was seen with mmo's and mobas.

Personnaly (and to change gears) i never understood all the handwringing over gaas. If i dont like what the publishers are doing or offering then i dont buy it. If i do and want more of whatever they are selling the i do. There are so many good games out there, surely there is something for everyone to find something to play.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,373
I imagine this is a product of how cagey everyone is in regards to gaming budgets.
Moreso the immaturity of a large part of the community tbh. Like remember that Skullgirls situation where they actually broke down the budget and people still argued? Or when people saw ME:A and said "THIS cost $40 million?!" (Where did that number even come from first of all?).