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Why was there a time where transgender people were murderers in movies?

fireflame

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Oct 27, 2017
2,159
Recently I saw a movie called "Dressed to Kill" from Brian de Palma. It mad eme realized that in the 80's, for some reason, many movies depicted serial killers who happened to be transgender. Silence of the lamb depicts a murderer who has been denied transgender surgery, and I think there is an episode in X files who mentions a supernatural story involving a transgender girl who kills boys she seduces.

Where does that idea of associating transgender people to murderers originate and why was it a thing in the 80's and 90's?I have the feeling that it comes from a lack of understanding or knowledge about a category of people, since in the past, a lot of fantastic or horrific stories involved minorities.
 
Hassel

Hassel

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Oct 25, 2017
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just the two examples you have provided does not constitute “many”

How many film murderers do you think were acted out in the 20 years of the 80 or 90s

2000? 3000? 5000?

Is 2 out of thousands not a normal representation?
 
Geirskogul

Geirskogul

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Oct 25, 2017
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It comes from the widespread societal belief that transgender people are dangerous & mentally ill sexual predators. Its the same justification used for the bathroom BS.

Of course in reality trans people are the most marginalized demographic in society and are far more likely to be sexually assaulted or murdered themselves than they are to commit such acts on another person.
 
Trouble

Trouble

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Buffalo Bill was denied reassignment surgery because he wasn't actually transgender. The book goes into a bit more detail on that.
 
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Platy

Platy

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they were big on the "mental disease makes you a killer" so you could find example of every one, from autism to dawn to exchyzofrenia to "making the a full transition in society just to get away from murdering a dolphin"
 
OmegaX

OmegaX

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Oct 28, 2017
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I thought Buffalo Bill wasn't transgender but something else. Although I never understood what was his deal. Maybe a fetish for wearing woman skin?

Edit: too late it seems.
 
PersonAndStuff

PersonAndStuff

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Oct 27, 2017
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Definitely a thing. Most of the good ones at least, like Silence of the Lambs or Psycho, have it be something more than just transgender. But they're definitely playing with people's fear of transgender people.
 
OP
OP

fireflame

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Oct 27, 2017
2,159
Hassel said:
just the two examples you have provided does not constitute “many”

How many film murderers do you think were acted out in the 20 years of the 80 or 90s

2000? 3000? 5000?

Is 2 out of thousands not a normal representation?
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But those movies had a good critical reception and sort of became iconic in their category, so I think even though there are not thousands, it is still worth discussing it. The "transgender serial killer" trope is something that existed.
 
Nivash

Nivash

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Oct 25, 2017
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Being transgender was considered not just morally deviant but a sign of mental illness. Best case scenario transgender people in those days were played for a laugh. Worst case scenario it was used to accentuate that the villain is really crazy and boom, you got Buffalo Bill. Basically, any degree of transgender acceptance is a very recent thing in mainstream culture. Up until the turn of the millenium it was an alien concept in the mainstream.

I mean hell, a lot of conservatives are still stuck in the old mindset. That’s why you get them cheering the transgender ban in the military or freaking out about bathroom policies.
 
Neece

Neece

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Oct 27, 2017
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Hassel said:
just the two examples you have provided does not constitute “many”

How many film murderers do you think were acted out in the 20 years of the 80 or 90s

2000? 3000? 5000?

Is 2 out of thousands not a normal representation?
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Click to shrink...
This line of thinking is flawed because there aren’t very many trans characters depicted on screen.

So if there were 5 trans characters featured in big movies in a given year and 2 of them were murderers, then yeah that would be way beyond normal.

It’s nothing like having a few cis murderers out of thousands of cis characters.
 
cervanky

cervanky

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Trouble said:
Buffalo Bill was denied reassignment surgery because he wasn't actually transgendered. The book goes into a bit more detail on that.
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I don't think that would really come across to your typical movie-goer, it doesn't matter. The film still presents the perspective that Bill's dressing up is by its nature perverse, like in that "Goodbye Horses" dance scene.
 
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Nivash

Nivash

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Oct 25, 2017
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Neece said:
This line of thinking is flawed because there aren’t very many trans characters depicted on screen.

So if there were 5 trans characters featured in big movies in a given year and 2 of them were murderers, then yeah that would be way beyond normal.

It’s nothing like having a few cis murderers out of thousands of cis characters.
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Name one fair and accurate transgender character in a major movie before the year 2000. I’ll wait.
 
Jessie

Jessie

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Oct 27, 2017
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Unineko no Naku Koro Ni has this trope, kinda. It’s actually relatively well done, and the villain is pretty sympathetic.
 
Jessie

Jessie

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Oct 27, 2017
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Oh, and Pretty Little Liars has this trope (not necessarily a killer, but definitely a main antagonist). It’s not done well.
 
SugarNoodles

SugarNoodles

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Nov 3, 2017
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PhoenixDark said:
That the OP is mischaracterizing things? Half of the...two films he references don't even depict what he claims they do. As others have pointed out, Buffalo Bill was not transgender.
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The film doesn’t really care about the distinction, so I hardly see how that makes the example irrelevant to the topic.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CreepyCrossdresser?from=Main.VillainousCrossdresser

Seems pretty significant but maybe people are just making discrimination up?
 
Rackham

Rackham

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Oct 25, 2017
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Sleepaway Camp

But I don't think there's many transgender murderers in films. I'd say most transgender people in films are shown to be prostitutes
 
Oneiros

Oneiros

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Sometimes it was due to associating transgenderism with mental illness and sometimes they just wanted the killer's identity to be a surprise.
 
Nivash

Nivash

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Oct 25, 2017
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Random Painted Highway

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Oct 25, 2017
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How is the crying game viewed these days?

Not exactly the primary character, but the primary motivator in a dog day afternoon-that was an unexpected curve for a young me as watching!
 
John Kowalski

John Kowalski

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Oct 27, 2017
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Symptomatic of a society that does not know what to do with the topic, so its place in cultural iconography is erratic, uncomfortable, ill placed.
 
Dream Machine

Dream Machine

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They were seen as weird and taboo. Horror movies and thrillers trade in weird and taboo.

Sleepaway Camp comes to mind too.
 
SugarNoodles

SugarNoodles

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John Kowalski said:
Symptomatic of a society that does not know what to do with the topic, so its place in cultural iconography is erratic, uncomfortable, ill placed.
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I mean I don’t know that society doesn’t know what to do with the topic. This trope is very clearly designed based on the fact that defying gender norms makes cis people very uncomfortable. Society knew what it wanted to do with the topic, it’s just that the result was discriminatory.
 
Redneckerz

Redneckerz

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Oct 25, 2017
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Unknown Body, Proxima Centauri. 4th O.B.
In the 80s people thought a lot less about the topics of today.

I mean, Married With Children would not exist in today's time frame for obvious reasons and Roseanne in the revival is getting huge amounts of attention for being so ''unpolitically correct''. They were, indeed, different times.

NamasteWager said:
Ace Ventura 1's murderer was transgender, right?
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Now that i think of it, i think that was the case. The Ace Ventura flicks are one of my faves, but some of the jokes at display do look awkward nowadays.
 
Neece

Neece

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Oct 27, 2017
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PhoenixDark said:
But he isn't transgender, as the OP claimed. There's even a scene where Clarice points out there is no link between transgender identity and violence/serial killers.
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Buffalo Bill isn’t diagnosed as being transgender, but that is irrelevant because the character still identifies that way.

And either way, the vast majority of the viewing audience saw Buffalo Bill as a trans character, and that iconography and impression has stuck.
 
OP
OP

fireflame

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Oct 27, 2017
2,159
PhoenixDark said:
But he isn't transgender, as the OP claimed. There's even a scene where Clarice points out there is no link between transgender identity and violence/serial killers.
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Yes iI checked and she does point it out.But I feel that the perception of the spectator might still be influenced towards this direction.Even though that criticism is unfair I keep reading a decent amount of feedbacks that blame the movie for being hostile or depicting a negative image of a transgender person. It does not, but to be honest when I was a teenager and watched the movie, I did not make a clear difference.
 
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