Why was there a time where transgender people were murderers in movies?
- Thread starter fireflame
- Start date
Yeah it's the first thing I thought of reading the title.
Sayo Yasuda could be my favorite character, like, ever. Especially after the "Confession" Manga. Such a fascinating character.
OP
OP
There are not many movies where a transgender person is the main character. So when the antagonist is a transgender person(the antagonist is generally the second most important character in a movie, sometimes it is even more important than the hero), I think it is easier to notice it, especially given some of those movies were crticially acclaimed.
This isn't nearly as bad as what the TC is making it out to be.
Compare it to the 70s when seemingly every movie ever starring a white action hero had 99% of the badguys or henchmen as black.
Compare it to the 70s when seemingly every movie ever starring a white action hero had 99% of the badguys or henchmen as black.
Pro-tip: don’t be the guy defending discrimination by saying “things used to be worse”
Wut. I'm saying it wasn't an issue compared to something that WAS an issue.
TC is trying to create an issue out of something that ISN'T an issue. Stop trying to create an argument where there isn't one.
I have and I'm still have not seen any compelling reasoning to OP's thoughts.
Where does The Crying Game fall on the spectrum?
Though technically she's a murderer too...
It is still an issue. Do not use discrimination to minimize other discrimination.
Yup.
I mean, Hannibal literally says it.
The main character’s reaction is/was considered comically over the top, even back when it came out (that’s what Ace Ventura was parodying).
If your "massive list" of examples is proof of this, then your argument holds no weight at all. Because your "massive list" is a very select few films that aren't even all about trans people.
Anyways, I'm out. See ya later.
Viewing the excellent documentary « the celluloid closet » might shed some light on the negatives LGBTQ tropes used in Hollywood movies. Lots of exemples of gay, lesbian or transgender characters used as plot devices and presented as crazy, suicidal, or just dangerous killers.
As a gay kid in the eighties (I’m 45) I remember only having negative representation in movies, books, and media in general... and it was quite hard growing up believing I would maybe later be driven mad by my “perversion” and/or end up on the fringe of society or simply kill myself. I would often go to sleep thinking about my future - or lack thereof.
But the documentary also has some funny exemples of LGBT subtext inserted in mainstream movies without anybody really noticing, and some (few) positive examples of representation.
Trailer :
As a gay kid in the eighties (I’m 45) I remember only having negative representation in movies, books, and media in general... and it was quite hard growing up believing I would maybe later be driven mad by my “perversion” and/or end up on the fringe of society or simply kill myself. I would often go to sleep thinking about my future - or lack thereof.
But the documentary also has some funny exemples of LGBT subtext inserted in mainstream movies without anybody really noticing, and some (few) positive examples of representation.
Trailer :
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That list mostly consist of crossdressers they had the joker from The Dark Knight on their. I'm asking for a list of films that do portray transgender people in that way
That is because society at large doesn’t recognize being transgender as legitimate, so it’s passed off in written as “just some sicko” that’s “not technically trans”
It still falls under the umbrella of trans representation in media because being trans isn’t just defined as “someone who wants sex reassignment surgery.” Something you would know if you came into these kinds of conversations with any willingness whatsoever to learn.
I’m not sure why you bothered coming into a thread to spout ignorance and then bounce as soon as someone offered you concrete information.
User warned: Dismissive drive-by posting in a thread about serious issues.
This is searching for a reason to be outraged
That is how media portrays trans people. As cross dressing weirdos. When society doesn’t view being trans as legitimate, you can’t just cherrypick examples that actually acknowledge being transgender as legitimate and then claim that it summarizes the issue.
OP
OP
I was not intending to do that, just questioning why what i percieved as a negative perception/depiction happened in movies back then.
People fear what is foreign to them, people fear what they don't understand. It's as simple as that.
It's called being reflective of potential flaws or wrongdoings. If you're so upset by the idea that hey, maybe we fucked up somewhere as a society, why come into the thread? Its not as if youre trying to make a sound argument anyway.
.. eyeroll..
So you can't show me that this is a heavily used trope about transgender people in films. Just say so , no need to go round in circles. I'll watch the
the celluloid closet doc that was mentioned however which might be more helpful
Let us know what you make of it.
(Also consider google. There’s a wealth of knowledge out there. You don’t need to come into threads like these and demand to be educated as a qualifier for acknowledging the existence of these kinds of things.)
Yeah Dressed to Kill is an interesting one. On the one hand it feels pretty shitty to use being transgender as a shock tactic for a horror movie and portray it more as a split personality/mental illness, on the other there’s that great scene towards the end where De Palma is clearly making fun of conservative old people when Nancy Allen calmly and unjudgementally discuses sexual reassignment surgery to her teenage cohort and some prim and proper old ladies eavesdropping start freaking out.
Overall probably a net negative in terms of portrayal, but more likely due to De Palma trying to find a timely angle on Psycho than a malicious or judgmental intent (not that that excuses it) and I think the movie using sympathetic news footage of an actual transgender woman and the scene that doesn’t play the sex reassignment surgery discussion as something that shouldn’t be weird or horrifying unless you’re an out of touch prude may have been the movie’s attempt to say “ok just because the psycho villain was transgender doesn’t mean all transgender people are”.
Maybe I’m giving the movie more credit than it deserves in that regard though because I think it’s a fantastic thriller.
Overall probably a net negative in terms of portrayal, but more likely due to De Palma trying to find a timely angle on Psycho than a malicious or judgmental intent (not that that excuses it) and I think the movie using sympathetic news footage of an actual transgender woman and the scene that doesn’t play the sex reassignment surgery discussion as something that shouldn’t be weird or horrifying unless you’re an out of touch prude may have been the movie’s attempt to say “ok just because the psycho villain was transgender doesn’t mean all transgender people are”.
Maybe I’m giving the movie more credit than it deserves in that regard though because I think it’s a fantastic thriller.
There's a debate on whether the character is TG or not someone going that route for revenge.
If I recall the killer wasn't transgender though, which I think was the whole reason for the murders. It was a boy who was forced to pretend to be a girl by his fucked up parents which caused some mental issues. Being forced to be a gender you don't identify with is the opposite of transgender isn't it?
Like I said a few posts up - Because of an overwhelming negative representation of gay people in movies, I spent most of my childhood and adolescence thinking I would end up to be a murderer, a prostitute or kill myself - so I think I could have some things to say about the subject without searching too hard.
Because you now live on a society where media has more positive gay charactees in movies or TV shows doesn’t negate all the fucking shit that happened before.
So because someone goes off what they read in ths OP and may not be familiar with a TV tropes analysis you ask them what their "angle* is?
Sit down.
There’s an important distinction that absolutely needs to be made here or otherwise there are big problems. It’s worth noting that this doesn’t make things better and it’s equally shitty to cast men who don’t confirm to regular gender roles as evil any way you slice it but:
Are you actually referring to trans people or cis men that are cross dressers? There’s a difference.
Are you actually referring to trans people or cis men that are cross dressers? There’s a difference.
No, I’ll stay where I am, thanks. Coming into a topic about discrimination and immediately trying to minimize the extent of said discrimination does not earn someone the benefit of the doubt.
Its not a choice, but you are half right here. A lot of trans people do in fact still end up in the sex industry, so while it sucks that's a lot of the representation, at least its rooted in reality unlike the serial killer nonsense.
Unless you're in an Oscar winning movie. Then you also have HIV.
What do you mean by “he wasn’t actually transgender”? I’m beginning to worry that a lot of folks here don’t understand what it means to be trans...
The character goes through the full transition between the 1st and 2nd movie. I think it's alluded that they did it to help with the fact that she was basically brainwashed into being a woman. She identifies as a woman by that point. And it wasn't her parents who did it, it was her aunt. That plus the losing a parent and sibling plus some other stuff was the reason for the insanity.
A lot of horror fiction comes from transgressions of the accepted "normalcy" of everyday life, the culture at large dictates the barriers that the horrific violates. The transgressions change with the times, note how we see less "Crazy, usually younger woman breaks up a marriage" thrillers because the dissolution of a marriage and the family unit isn't seen as an affront anymore, and there was a time when being transgender was not only considered wrong but so far outside the accepted that it was monstrous.
And it is important to remember that the Hays Code only ended in the late 1960s so for something like De Palma's Dressed To Kill you have a filmmaker who basically started working at a time when the shackles of the Code were thrown out and then he tries to play Hitchcock without restriction, so it was more violent and more sexual and more outre.
And it is important to remember that the Hays Code only ended in the late 1960s so for something like De Palma's Dressed To Kill you have a filmmaker who basically started working at a time when the shackles of the Code were thrown out and then he tries to play Hitchcock without restriction, so it was more violent and more sexual and more outre.
It’s still blatant transphobia. Trans people are often forced to spend their lives living as a gender they don’t identify as and it doesn’t cause them to become serial killers.
But again, your initial premise isn't about gay people in general it's about transgender people in particular which the trope your claiming doesn't seem to exist.
The Crying Game?
I know that the Ace Venture pretty much stomped all over any nuance that the movie had, but it is actually a pretty thoughtful movie with a strong transgender lead.
Guess I need to brush up on my sleepaway camp lore, never watched anything past the first.
Crossdressers aren’t trans... they’re cis.
I mean don’t get me wrong - it’s super shitty to characterize the act of gender nonconformity as evil as a trope regardless - but I think it’s a grave mistake to confuse cross dressers with trans people and we need to really get ahead of that first.