The fact that they call it graduating...I fucking loathe idol culture
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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Didn't the writer notice how unnatural that sounded? It's used 4 times within 4 sentences. Setting aside what a loathsome wordchoice that is in the first place... Sure telling. Grrr.
I wouldn't call myself an idol fan (well, I am for Babymetal but it's a mix of styles) but aside the stupid thing of prohibiting their relationship be it in Japan or South Korea, I don't think there's something too different than other industries of music in and outside of Japan for me to hate it. The thing that I hate and I'm glad some groups out there are stopping is the relationship prohibition which is just absurd and a relic of the idolization of them from the 80s that should have been abandoned for decades.
Funny that you mention that because the characters were designed to look much older specifically to avoid problems with the censors for depicting children going through so much physical and emotional suffering.
so... I hate that I know this, but "graduating" is the actual official term used by the groups (see: here) and they have whole ceremonies and whatnot. the writer's not incorrect to be using it, as far as I know (they're using it too much, but that's more a writing style issue than a being a weirdo issue)
it's definitely the term they use to describe it themselves (quoted below: the one true j-pop idol, sashihara rino)
Yeah, but... the problem here isn't that the article keeps using it (that was just the icing), but the implications there. The word choice seem to be a direct part of the infantilization-virginization of idols, with the relationship bans and idols being forced to apologize after being harassed(!!!!).
To be fair, sotsugyou has these implications slightly less than the English graduation, but the school/child-related ones are still there even in Japanese.
Having finished Assassin's Creed Odyssey (finally), I'll simply say that while the game isn't perfect, Cassandra's great. We need more Cassandras in our games, and while it was long overdue, it's great that Ubisoft finally delivered a solid female protagonist (even if, like FemShep before her, she's just basically written as ungendered character to accommodate for the character creation options).
It's proof that it's doable, and I had way more fun than I expected living this Odyssey and romancing (or not), whoever I felt like "my" Cassandra would (role playing style).
It's proof that it's doable, and I had way more fun than I expected living this Odyssey and romancing (or not), whoever I felt like "my" Cassandra would (role playing style).
Stay far away from the DLC because hoo boy does it take that agency away from you
That sometimes leads to rather hilarious situations. Divinity 2: Ego Draconis is an example. The game just didn't care if you were male or female, so the usual "oh, look, you're such a manly gamermale, you strong male you" lines that game designers throw into games to assure the player they are the most manly thing that all women want were rather wacky.
I mean, they sounded like they could be said to a woman, it just made the thing feel rather odd.
It was still bad, of course, but it was something, I suppose.
I've read about that. I didn't intend to play the DLC in the first place. I usually skip DLC for huge games. After like 140h to complete a game, I just want to shelve it, even if I had a lot of fun with it.
Anyways, thanks for the advice.
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Yeah I see what you mean. I didn't feel that way about Odyssey's protagonist though. It just felt like they tried to avoid any kind of strong genderization. Which is, well, I guess that's the extent of what we can expect right now. It's the usual y'know. I'm better off with a relatively ungendered protagonist than with a gender caricature.
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Odyssey sounds much better handled, yeah :) I didnt't mean to denigrate it, sorry if I sounded like I was!
Thanks for the spoiler. I'm playing through GoW for the first time at the moment. She's not introduced as such. I have encountered her once but didn't who she was. Now I do :(
It was a spoiler then. It is now. Lol. No big deal. Surprises are overrated anyway :)
As for Freya, I have to say, she's not wearing too much. That said, Kratos could be accused of the same thing with his side/under/all boob and bared midriff. I don't really have an issue with it, given the context. What I do have a problem with are characters like Quiet from MGSV. Just horrific.
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Heh. It means Alexios and Kassandra are essentially just swaps without defining characteristics (which include gendered traits, even if that's just how other NPCs interact with them).
I could go into more details but I know it's an unpopular opinion so maybe I shouldn't >.>
(I should stress that Kassandra is still pretty awesome, though!)
I love Kassandra, but yes I completely agree. I wouldn't have minded a few differences.
I also wish her underwear was black, so whenever she goes swimming it looks more like a shadow underneath her armor.
I also wish her underwear was black, so whenever she goes swimming it looks more like a shadow underneath her armor.
I think "modding" - as in, games that allow their assets to be fiddled with by just about anyone, and in doing so, creating a new marketplace of aesthetics and wants - could be a useful angle of enacting this kind of change.
Skyrim, for example, has a few modders who do stuff like "modest female armors" that plugs boob-windows, makes sculpted breast armor look less like anatomical breasts, and other changes that still stays true to the original design. And the feedback from users on those mods are often very positive and appreciative.
If more games were open for modding, I could see a loosely organized modding group forming - "the sensible outfit compatriots" - that offer alternatives to bad design in otherwise good games.
There's a risk that, unless you're a prominent writer for a major outlet, or are very active on a prominent discussion forum (or on forums for individual game developers), a lot of the energy of these discussions don't translate into actual change (and that the momentum behind the discussion has to be built up again and again from zero, everytime the topic is raised).
More modding-availability would offer avenues of enacting direct change by taking the matters into their own hands, and organize with like-minded.
I am aware that just opening up games for modding might be seen as letting developers off the hook ("just fix whatever you whiny guys are bothered by yourself through mods, if it's so awful!") but the direct ability to modify assets to your liking is still valuable enough that it's worth championing for on its own.
It makes players more engaged with the game for longer periods of time, and has the added benefit of being an avenue for people learning entirely new skills like Blender/3DMax or Photoshop/Gimp (or social skills through collaborations on a project with other strangers you would never have talked to if it wasn't for your shared interest in adding or changing some part of the game). It's basically a win-win for everyone (though not all games will be equally suitable for a thriving modding scene).
Adding modding-options also don't mean healthy discussion and think-pieces suddenly won't be made and written. But what modding can do, is to illustrate that there is a need and a want for something, that you can demonstrate by a mod file's popularity. Basically, you do both: you keep good discussion going, while also push for more opportunities of individual agency in terms of shaping how the game's characters look.
It would also shift the discussion in terms of user-engagement from passive ("just vote with your dollar" which doesn't work; developers can't decipher the reason you didn't buy their product simply by you not buying their product) into the active ("a lot of these mods that make female armors and outfits less sexualized and more practical seem to be really well received by users, and downloaded by tens of thousands of individuals").
I do mods, though very rarely clothing/outfits, but working on one that sorta deals with females bodies, and having to make judgement calls for things like breast size and protrusion for the last couple of weeks has put the topic on my mind.
Skyrim, for example, has a few modders who do stuff like "modest female armors" that plugs boob-windows, makes sculpted breast armor look less like anatomical breasts, and other changes that still stays true to the original design. And the feedback from users on those mods are often very positive and appreciative.
If more games were open for modding, I could see a loosely organized modding group forming - "the sensible outfit compatriots" - that offer alternatives to bad design in otherwise good games.
There's a risk that, unless you're a prominent writer for a major outlet, or are very active on a prominent discussion forum (or on forums for individual game developers), a lot of the energy of these discussions don't translate into actual change (and that the momentum behind the discussion has to be built up again and again from zero, everytime the topic is raised).
More modding-availability would offer avenues of enacting direct change by taking the matters into their own hands, and organize with like-minded.
I am aware that just opening up games for modding might be seen as letting developers off the hook ("just fix whatever you whiny guys are bothered by yourself through mods, if it's so awful!") but the direct ability to modify assets to your liking is still valuable enough that it's worth championing for on its own.
It makes players more engaged with the game for longer periods of time, and has the added benefit of being an avenue for people learning entirely new skills like Blender/3DMax or Photoshop/Gimp (or social skills through collaborations on a project with other strangers you would never have talked to if it wasn't for your shared interest in adding or changing some part of the game). It's basically a win-win for everyone (though not all games will be equally suitable for a thriving modding scene).
Adding modding-options also don't mean healthy discussion and think-pieces suddenly won't be made and written. But what modding can do, is to illustrate that there is a need and a want for something, that you can demonstrate by a mod file's popularity. Basically, you do both: you keep good discussion going, while also push for more opportunities of individual agency in terms of shaping how the game's characters look.
It would also shift the discussion in terms of user-engagement from passive ("just vote with your dollar" which doesn't work; developers can't decipher the reason you didn't buy their product simply by you not buying their product) into the active ("a lot of these mods that make female armors and outfits less sexualized and more practical seem to be really well received by users, and downloaded by tens of thousands of individuals").
I do mods, though very rarely clothing/outfits, but working on one that sorta deals with females bodies, and having to make judgement calls for things like breast size and protrusion for the last couple of weeks has put the topic on my mind.
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Honestly that's what I've been seeing a lot. It's just a sad loop at this point, the Catherine issue with Erica comes to mind.
- Controversy happened
- Outrage, people pledge to not tolerate it
- Fades away until the next controversy.
That's why both things are important; both making space for discussions to be had and developed, while also empowering individuals to more directly influence change.
The only other viable option is to nag developers until they change, which requires an enormous amount of energy from individuals, and isn't even a guarantee that change happens. It can also very easily be co-opted by opportunistic trolls, who shifts the conversation into SJW-swamp, which is a completely unwinnable argument once it happens.
So, that's why you do both. You keep the discussion alive, but also see if there are ways to empower people to actually do the change they want to see.
This, in turn also gives further merit to the need for raising the issue in the first place. It's harder to dismiss these concerns as "just triggered SJW:s writing articles about nothing" if you can point to hard data-points like "these specific mods are very well received, and have been downloaded by tens of thousands of individual users. So clearly, there is actual interest here. Maybe this is something to think about when we design our next game?".
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Alternatively, let them rot and inspire/empower a new generation of developers to surpass them.
Here's the protagonist of the upcoming Blade Runner 2019 comic. She's a Blade Runner named Ash. I must say I really like the design. Very classy!
Yeah. I think it's pretty telling that just about the entire old stable has gone independent/crowdfunded as their own group, publishing the Galette line.
This is pretty damn cool!Here's the protagonist of the upcoming Blade Runner 2019 comic. She's a Blade Runner named Ash. I must say I really like the design. Very classy!
Here's the protagonist of the upcoming Blade Runner 2019 comic. She's a Blade Runner named Ash. I must say I really like the design. Very classy!
Wow, that's... refreshingly great!
And unlike with YH, the artists often moved on to other magazines/yuri anthologies, so that magazine seems to have had a much bigger and positive impact there. That's one I don't mind buying.
Agreed!
"new, improved and more woke" people don't manifest automatically as the old generation dies off. As we know from the contemporary state of the world, social progress isn't a given function of time passing just passing. And what's more troubling, earlier gains can very quickly be lost if not actively tended to.
The trend of developers opening up their games for modding - largely in response to the incredible success of Skyrim's modding scene and its effect on keeping the game relevant - is a good "tool" for enacting the kind of change you want to see, precisely because it allows just about anyone to change the experience of the game, and share that vision with others.
As I said before, it doesn't - and shouldn't - let developers "off the hook" in any way, but it represents a tangible way for people to implement the change they want to see, and for that, "modding", as a game-feature, represents a valuable tool for showcasing and enacting an alternative perspective.
Here's the protagonist of the upcoming Blade Runner 2019 comic. She's a Blade Runner named Ash. I must say I really like the design. Very classy!
But but she's not showing skin! This means she's not a woman!
/s
She could be a replicant. You never know. Look at her shadow.
Considering the game is voiced and for me game sizes is one of this generation's biggest problems that nobody talks about, I am kinda happy they went for a more gender neutral version of the npc dialogue because it means less high quality audio files =P
Here's the protagonist of the upcoming Blade Runner 2019 comic. She's a Blade Runner named Ash. I must say I really like the design. Very classy!
Nice. The clothes are maybe a little anachronistic (they read a little more noir than neo-noir to me) but that's a pretty great design.
Looks in line with what Deckard wore, and this takes place in the same year as the original.
Fair enough, maybe it's just the art style or I'm having a mild hallucination or something. Off topic in any case.
To be an devil's advocate, this only works if they actually look at the modding systems and see what mods are popular (which would be a neat thing devs should do more often).
I feel like another obstacle is that Waifuism simply makes more money than the otherwise. Fate Grand/Order would not make as much money as it is without some sexualization of it's female characters and people rolling and spending money to get then for both visual and gameplay purposes. While this is also repeating an argument said by 4chan and other right-wing sources, "people don't actually spend on these games" could actually apply with these sorts of games, which gives companies no real reason to budge unless you make it more profitable to not have that sort of thing in their game, and the people who do not want that sort of thing in their game is probably the same audiance who doesn't care much for the Gacha genre.
This is a dumb argument for a lot of reasons, not least of which is the fact that it's impossible to tell how a product like Fate would do given they've never actually tried a Fate series that didn't blatantly objectify women.
And it's not as if there isn't shitloads of money being made in the Marvel Universe right now. There's tons of money out there for catering to more than just horny males. It's a lack of imagination, not availability, that holds the industry back.
That's a valid claim.
"Lack of imagination" is something I've heard a lot, and I think it's more of a lack of taking risks for it. I don't think the industry is that secular for it to happen, just none willing to take off with any idea for something new. I think Cygames, the people behind Granblue Fantasy only was able to get funding for a Gacha product, so that's what they did until they recently got enough funding for full console games like Granblue Versus and the like.
I do feel like there also needs to be a bit more original IPs that are progressive, in addition to the retooling of established franchises to be more flexible and not have such a resistant fanbase, as well as showing that there's an audience for this stuff that goes beyond nostalgia.
They prefer to cather to a very simple marketing to understand (the pillow buying otaku whale) than the complexity of .... everyone.
It is closer to being cowards and taking the easiest path than going something daring and complex
The same can be said for the THQ Nordic incident that is already forgotten.
You would be very surprised to see that many female otaku do the same, be it for male characters which are the most common (with Lancer being one of the most popular) or female like Saber. We like to act with the premise that otaku are just some bunch of male teenagers or adults but between all of those, above 40% of otaku are female in different ages.
I need this now.Here's the protagonist of the upcoming Blade Runner 2019 comic. She's a Blade Runner named Ash. I must say I really like the design. Very classy!
Cygames only worked on Gacha product because the company was created by Cyberagent for that very reason. They were able to enter the console market due to the size and money they got since being created in 2011 but that don't mean that they will have many products on console every time like even companies like Koei Tecmo. Their products will be out in years from years. Of course, I mean those published and developed by them, not contracted works like the other two games they did for PS4/PC.
Having lots of reasons to show female lingerie means having lots of women in your cast. It is like madoka that almost accidentally deals with feminist themes because the author wanted to see girls suffering but basically made the cast 99% girls so they needed to have deep so he could have a story =P
Yep, that too, not to mention CORE VALUES which people seemed to have forgotten about.
Speaking of which, apparently an 8chaner is live streaming themselves going on a mass shooting rampage in New Zealand. Perhaps THQ's relationship with 8chan could stand to be brought up again.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/major-active-shooting-going-on-in-christchurch-nz.105436/
What feminist themes? I probably have missed them.
I think we should keep that to that thread, lest we stray off course, but that is a good reason why to not do your AMA on 8chan, a place that people who are rejected from 4chan go to.
Just wanted to direct attention to that thread and express my vain hope THQ's courting pedophiles and mass shooters will cause people to take another pass at that whole AMA thing again.
How society makes women suffer, lacked of consent to what happen to their bodies... basically pathriarchy sucks
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