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Snormy

I'll think about it
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,123
Morizora's Forest
I kind of want to try Grandblue but it wasn't available in my region and I'm sort of deep into Epic 7 - which is mostly grossly objectified designs right down to ass and boob shot animations quite often. I do really like one hero but I'll probably need to whale all my savings for a chance to get her. :(

Silver Blade Aramintha
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I do wish there was a gacha game with good gameplay and more reasonable designs.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,522
I kind of want to try Grandblue but it wasn't available in my region and I'm sort of deep into Epic 7 - which is mostly grossly objectified designs right down to ass and boob shot animations quite often. I do really like one hero but I'll probably need to whale all my savings for a chance to get her. :(

Silver Blade Aramintha
478518c0a6ab438d8bf7bf99cdb08354_1552028378.png

d14abc46d0394a629c0a06b06f392f00_1551947056.gif

I do wish there was a gacha game with good gameplay and more reasonable designs.
As someone who played Grandblue for a month...it's really nothing special and I don't understand how it got so popular.

I'll probably get that fighting game though.
 

Deleted member 8583

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,708
As someone who played Grandblue for a month...it's really nothing special and I don't understand how it got so popular.

I'll probably get that fighting game though.

The RPG looks interesting. Just going to wait for impressions to see if it does not have the typical JRPGs problems with sexualization and objectification.
 

Nebty

Member
Mar 27, 2019
43
As someone who played Grandblue for a month...it's really nothing special and I don't understand how it got so popular.

I'll probably get that fighting game though.
I don't play Granblue, but doesn't it have a ton of crossover promos with other popular series? I know it had a Persona 5 one. Maybe that's why.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,522
The RPG looks interesting. Just going to wait for impressions to see if it does not have the typical JRPGs problems with sexualization and objectification.
I mean...expect it. Pretty sure that at least 25% of grandblue's economy is bathing suit dlc.

I don't play Granblue, but doesn't it have a ton of crossover promos with other popular series? I know it had a Persona 5 one. Maybe that's why.
Yeah but only because it was already popular. I don't know, it's the junk food of mobile RPG's.
 
As someone who played Grandblue for a month...it's really nothing special and I don't understand how it got so popular.

I'll probably get that fighting game though.
What I can say is Cygame is pretty generous with giving free stuff, allow you to save up draw chances for characters. There also a lot of queer community around the game which is where I started. It very much about characters.
 

kyorii

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,983
Splatlandia
GrandBlue needs a writer, because it's plot and characterization is the most blase of blase, but they're TRYING in their design department to meet a happy medium of skinship and sensible design.

Emphesis on TRYING because...

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81t6pZRWouL._SX466_.jpg[/img]
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And the series is rife with boob armor and thigh gaps and dumb clevage and see through skirts and and and....

But some of these designs are real good.

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Grandblue Fantasy is no oasis, and if you think it is, you will drown in summer bikini dlc.

Writing varies with events and the main story does pick up after awhile. In fact the most recent event from the anniversary was the conclusion of a 3 year arc and was insanely good. (and was catered to the lady fans)

Regarding gameplay. Granblue was basically the first mobile MMO like and the gameplay is rewarding with the gradual progression. Also the music some by Uematsu and his protégé Narita, is outstanding.
 
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Gun Dog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
504
As someone who played Grandblue for a month...it's really nothing special and I don't understand how it got so popular.

I'll probably get that fighting game though.
From what I've gathered from friends that play it and big discord channels is the usual Cygames generosity with how much pulls free pulls they give you/suptix, low barrier of entry device needed, the art, and the insane amount of characters that have multiple costumes/rarity designs that you can freely change around.
 

Nana&Popo

Member
May 6, 2018
177
Granblue's writing has so much variation on quality, but generally the later the story came out the better it is. Early story arcs, events, and fate episodes are really bland and boring, but some later stories do get really good. As someone already mentioned, the recent anniversary storyline was really good and female fan service focused (hell, I could almost go straight for sandalphon). Granblue also focuses alot on reusing its vast, already existing cast, instead of just making new characters. This allows for characters to grow and change over time much more than any other gacha on the market. It's really interesting to get attached to some of these characters and see how they progress and change.

Mind you the writing and art are both still very far from perfect, and it can be somewhat... problematic at times.
 

caff!!!

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,031
Only gatcha I got into was dragalia lost and I bailed after the grind turned dangerously unfun. Still love Silke from the game, while the rest of the female characters were oops all exposed navels, or that fucking dragon that turns into a titty lady because they are in love with the bland ass MC
TLp35qT.png
 

Laiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,171
FYI, it's "Granblue", not "Grandblue". There's no 'd' in the name. Don't ask me why, I don't make these decisions.

Only gatcha I got into was dragalia lost and I bailed after the grind turned dangerously unfun. Still love Silke from the game, while the rest of the female characters were oops all exposed navels, or that fucking dragon that turns into a titty lady because they are in love with the bland ass MC
TLp35qT.png
Between the blandness of so many of the character designs and the fact that literally every character of the same class shares the exact same moveset... It's a wonder how they expected the game to succeed when they're literally selling the characters in a lottery. You kiiiind of need each character to feel unique and interesting to sell them, and they utterly failed at that. Two unique skills is not anywhere close to enough.

Even when I got the characters I wanted I just couldn't feel all that elated due to how samey they all played. Just terrible, really.
I kind of want to try Grandblue but it wasn't available in my region and I'm sort of deep into Epic 7 - which is mostly grossly objectified designs right down to ass and boob shot animations quite often. I do really like one hero but I'll probably need to whale all my savings for a chance to get her. :(

Silver Blade Aramintha
478518c0a6ab438d8bf7bf99cdb08354_1552028378.png

d14abc46d0394a629c0a06b06f392f00_1551947056.gif

I do wish there was a gacha game with good gameplay and more reasonable designs.
E7 is such a weird hodgepodge. You have great designs like Rima, Nemunas, Diene, and Armin next to garbage fanservice designs like Luna (BLEH!), Lorina, Yufine, Falconer Kluri, etc., etc., etc. You can tell the dev team has a very interesting mix of personnel and a rather laissez-faire approach to how characters get approved.

In all honesty, it's probably one of the better examples out there, if only because there are clearly at least some women on the dev team who get a fair shake, as opposed to other games where it's clearly a super heterosexual-male-dominated enterprise.
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,413
You know, I've always cursed the fact EU never got Granblue Fantasy. But now... I'm okay. I'm over over it.
 

Deleted member 49179

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2018
4,140
Here some more Granblue designs

The Erune race designs have both genders exposing a part of their bodies. And it varies between each character.

What's bothering me in those designs is not only that a lot of their body is clearly exposed with the goal to titillate, but also that they basically seem to wear lingerie. Especially the last one with the weird heels.

It looks like a collaboration with Victoria's Secret or something.
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,591
Gran Blue is definitely one of those games where you are uncertain of a character's age just by the art alone. Lots of skimpy costumes on child looking characters. In battles, all the characters are in the chibi style. Everyone looks like a child and if the character has revealing clothing, that also gets carried over to the chibi art.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,707
So I just finished rereading The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo after like 12 years. I know this thread mainly deals with women in games, but I'm curious to know what people here think of Lizbeth Salander as a character and how she's depicted in the story. I'm just looking for general impressions, if your willing to give them.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Loooong beleaguered sigh

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Do I really need to elaborate here ...

A double damn fucking shame when you consider that this game (Fantasy Strike) is ironically forming you and easing you in fighting game truisms , by ironically havinng the gal to challenge aforementioned mechanical truisms through creating a more streamlined mechanical paradigm that ironically gives you a better footing to approach more "serious buisness" 2D fighting games ...

Sooo being more mechanically accessible to lower the barrier of entry in the whole genre altogehter yes ... but being sensible character design wise ? Naaaahh

And that's just for Jaina ... don't get me started with Valerie and then the compare and contrast with Setsuki ...
 
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TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Okay Jaina is using mongolian style composite bow.
-Which mean that the bowing string is developping at least 60 joules of force once released , so that string swing back in rest position at approximately 85 km/h
Wearing cleavage revealing top with string speeds of that magnitude = your boobs are gonna get a truck load of deeeeeeppp cuts like hemorrhagic deep cuts.
Like for real "hell to the fucking no" .
-Then the breast plate to protect the breast on the side of the bow holding arm not being on the right boob once in player 2 position .
-The gloves now , again sorry not sorry but with mongolian style bow your entire forearm is at risk of getting cut by the string so your bowing gloves should always be elbow height length on the holding arm ... (and that's if we only plan to talk about the holding arm wrong design decision because the bowing arm glove is equally as stupid with a mongolian style bow )

And I could continue for hours ...

I didn't screenshot all of the animations that reveal problematic design choices with her ...
But my god is it atrocious. And what's even worse is that it's being atrocious while trying to pass for sensible desing because for once at least bowing protective gear IS on display.
So on the one hand you want to congratulate them for putting sports protective apparel on their character designs , and yet at the same time you wanna slap em for getting it so wrong ...
Almost as if the effort was only half hearted ...

And like I said Valerie is even worse in that regard...
 
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TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
For the bowing hand glove ironically she should be wearing that kind of glove
(again Mongolian Style Composite bows are weird beasts that requires one hell of a protective setup )
UT8GWjuXPJXXXagOFbXv.jpg


So even the gloves are wrong because the holding arm is showing skin while it should be entirely covered , while on the other hand the bowing arm and hand are overly covered because you do want your finger tips in contact with the string given the kind of pull you have to muster on those babies , and you do want your bowing arm to be naked as hell because on your bowing arm for your own safety you do want to feel the wind on that arm because it informs you of the intial sway your arrow is gonna receive , so having your arm naked is allowing to take notice of wind sway to not realease your string when the wind is too strong for it to be safe to shoot your arrow ....

Like ouch my head hurt just because I have to say all these out loud ...

I know that the glove setup for mongolian style bows is weird but it exist for a reason the archer's safety
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Oh and for people asking here have a look at MY forearm protection for the holding arm when using a mongolian style composite bow..

Yes that bad Yes it takes that much leather to keep my arm fully safe of any string cut ...
And I'm using a 60 joules bow , Jaina from the look of her bow is probably using an 80 to 95 joules one ...
AqllcjKPCSzd9plu8Wl5iUCL7WYcYYd_LGAMO-fNGPJVAi10gqDiYj4U2J2tYZyM44nHXUbu5q6cFczEXAmfng.jpg


And contrary to this photo meant to sell you this item you're supposed to wear that thing OVER a full sleeve top on that arm . While on the other side you want your top to be fully unsleeved .
 
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Joe2187

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,521
I didn't screenshot all of the animations that reveal problematic design choices with her ...
But my god is it atrocious. And what's even worse is that it's being atrocious while trying to pass for sensible desing because for once at least bowing protective gear IS on display.
So on the one hand you want to congratulate them for putting sports protective apparel on their character designs , and yet at the same time you wanna slap em for getting it so wrong ...
Almost as if the effort was only half hearted ...

And like I said Valerie is even worse in that regard...

Bruh... you're asking to much from this game, I can understand you not liking the representation being accurate if you're familiar with the subject matter...but thats like me getting pissed at overcooked for not representing being a chef accurately (actually overcooked does accurately represent it however) but the game has a giant magic panda man that throws cakes and baby pandas at you and a girl that paints magic to kill you...
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Bruh... you're asking to much from this game, I can understand you not liking the representation being accurate if you're familiar with the subject matter...but thats like me getting pissed at overcooked for not representing being a chef accurately (actually overcooked does accurately represent it however) but the game has a giant magic panda man that throws cakes and baby pandas at you and a girl that paints magic to kill you...
One single answer to you
Suikoden 3 : Chris Lightfellow ...

A game where you're riding griffins and fighting magical steampunk flying hornets automatons and yet Chris has an entire combat appropriate gear ...

In other words Magic Panda , and Valerie Magic Figt paint doesn't disqualify the game from criticism on protective gear ...
Sorry not sorry .
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
So TLDR : Jaina should be wearing this on the holding arm
0598571001506634533.jpg


and be fully unsleeved while wearing the bowing glove i showed you on the bowing arm

We all know why they did it they wanted to "show some skin" but here they have no excuse for getting it wrong because with their choice of bow for Jaina they had a perfect excuse to have an entire arm to be naked ...
 

TheCthultist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,450
New York

So simple, so good.

One single answer to you
Suikoden 3 : Chris Lightfellow ...

A game where you're riding griffins and fighting magical steampunk flying hornets automatons and yet Chris has an entire combat appropriate gear ...

In other words Magic Panda , and Valerie Magic Figt paint doesn't disqualify the game from criticism on protective gear ...
Sorry not sorry .
...Alright, so I usually read this thread specifically because it's typically full of great character design breakdowns, solid talking points on what's wrong with the industry, and legitimately interesting discussion and criticisms... but this whole argument that you've stretched out over four or five separate posts, for whatever reason, just comes off as pedantic in the extreme, only to end it with this condescending "sorry not sorry" when someone else points out a flaw in your thinking.

There IS such thing as artistic license when designing a character. They're not making an accurate-to-life game; the inclusion of the bizarre magic weirdness inherent of the Yomi/Fantasy Strike characters and setting. Is her outfit great? Absolutely not. But neither is it some purposeful affront to archery or half-assed as you described it above. Not everyone goes into those levels of detial when designing a character to just fit a "type," nor is it realistic to expect it of them. As a general rule of thumb, don't expect everyone to have the same level of specific knowledge that you might possess about a hobby, sport, or other thing that functions as one small aspect of what their designing as a whole...
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
artisitic license = a pretty name for "the rule of cool" ...

And again when you go as far as starting to research the subject down to the point of giving Jaina some protective gear that and this is my issue here only starts to depict mongolian style archery gear but get it so wrong that rather than being protective it will actually put you doubly at risk , this isn't just a problem of half assing it . The result of you half assing it does have long term impact on the public perception of what is enough to protect you ...

How many young men that take the mantle of breast plate designer for professional fencing are doing the boob armor shape the first time they have to make one for a female fencer because that's what they saw in video games and role playing games promotionnal art works for so long ???
Answer is waaay too many .

Same here because well trained archers in modern international composite bows , are jumping in competition fully unsleeved how many times in a mongolian style course do we have to almost "bully" our students into wearing appropriate protective gear ...

So given that international modern composite bow archers already feel like playing the diva and making the lives of mongolian style archers miserable as a resutl how about not adding to the pile for once ?

Again had they not tried at all I would have rolled my eyes once again and moved on my merry way , as always and kept my criticisms to myself .
But here the artists legitimately had some modicum of research being done , why stopping half way through ? Especially for creating results that once again I'll stress it gives a skewed prespective that is even more wrong than displaying Jaina not wearing any padding at all ???

Do you start to understand now ? The end result is even worse that if they didn't try at all !!!
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
On the one hand it is total fantasy that's not even trying for realism, but on the other hand having her use the protection that that bow requires in real life would probably be more interesting as a character design, if for nothing else than how unique it would be compared to the overwhelming majority of fantasy designs, and there's nothing that would prevent it from having a stylized design like anything else. And also they already went to the trouble of designing her with that very specific kind of bow in the first place.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
So even the gloves are wrong because the holding arm is showing skin while it should be entirely covered , while on the other hand the bowing arm and hand are overly covered because you do want your finger tips in contact with the string given the kind of pull you have to muster on those babies , and you do want your bowing arm to be naked as hell because on your bowing arm for your own safety you do want to feel the wind on that arm because it informs you of the intial sway your arrow is gonna receive , so having your arm naked is allowing to take notice of wind sway to not realease your string when the wind is too strong for it to be safe to shoot your arrow ....

Like ouch my head hurt just because I have to say all these out loud ...

This is all pretty interesting, actually. I wonder if they just saw an archer outfit with one covered arm and one naked arm, and didn't give any thought as to which arm was which and why.

I'm also wondering if they'd be willing or able to change the design based on feedback, but the one time I've interacted with Sirlin he basically told me to fuck off (for suggesting that setting up an online website to sell his then-upcoming tabletop games wasn't particularly hard, although I guess it was lucky that I got told off before I had a chance to actually volunteer to). Never meet your heroes, kids!

I'm now tempted to use Syldat's expertise to get feedback on my game, as one of the characters uses a bow. Granted, said character is a mechanical, giant version of Medusa that shoots snake-shaped arrows, so it probably doesn't have too many points in common with real-world archery, but hey... :D
 
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TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
On the one hand it is total fantasy that's not even trying for realism, but on the other hand having her use the protection that that bow requires in real life would probably be more interesting as a character design, if for nothing else than how unique it would be compared to the overwhelming majority of fantasy designs, and there's nothing that would prevent it from having a stylized design like anything else. And also they already went to the trouble of designing her with that very specific kind of bow in the first place.
Hell most Tuvan female archer have their bowing arm tattooed with tattoos that represent their past victories in various competitions because again bowing the string of a mongolian composite requires a fuck ton of strength endurance flexibility and cold blood and self control .

There's a reason why female competitors are litterally flooded with mariage demands in Tuvan tribes ... (for real when you're a woman who know how to shoot a falcon with a Mongolian Composite in Tuvan tribes your flooded with enamoured men and women ... you don't even have to search they come to you on their own )

So it's doubly dangerous and even artistically and market wise it makes no sense .
Fantasy Strike plans on selling alternate costumes in the long run , you've lost an opportunity to sell tattoo patterns for her bowing arm like what the fuck guys ???
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,606
This is the most interesting discussion I've seen come out of this thread in ages, so by all means, keep on from my point of view. If I was designing for a weapon set, I'd want to get the associated armor correct.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
And here I am in Dark Souls 2 wearing silk sorceresses gloves to use my +10 composite bow!
In Dark Souls 2 you wield Welsh and German Style composites , so although your arrow speed and maximal fire distance is increased ironically the pull you have to muster is reduced.

Mongolian Style design principles runs completely contrary to that and you need to develop "Ulysses" type reflexes and musculature to be able use one of those babies.
Mongolian composite the first time you experience them makes you feel like a weakling with how much pull you have to muster just to bow it ...

It's a hardcore bow that requires a fuck ton of self control, you want to make a female archer look immeidiately badass to somebody that's knowledgeable in archery give the lady a Mongolian Style Composite , that's the universal symbol of "don't fuck with that bitch she's badass like you have no idea" ...
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
This is all pretty interesting, actually. I wonder if they just saw an archer outfit with one covered arm and one naked arm, and didn't give any thought as to which arm was which and why.
That would be possible indeed but then again that would make Jaina's fire based powers on hell of a coincidence on their part.
-For those who didn't play Fantasy Strike Jaina's bow special power shows the string to catch fire then the arrow absorbing said fire and be released on fire

Mongolian Style Composite are prone when you fire them rapidly to have the string to get really really heated. I've personnaly lost count of the number of times I came back home with finger burns after rapid fire training on the Mongolian Style Composite.

So maybe It's a coincidence on their part but given how the flame animation of the string catching fire represent heat distributinon in the string then transmission to the arrow accuratelty (although exaggerating it by making it litteraly be fire rather than just heat distribution) leads to believe that at least one designer have been given a Mongolian style for them to fire it and experimented first hand the string heat up

Again that's why it makes me so mad only half of the details are true to life ...

I'm now tempted to use Syldat's expertise to get feedback on my game, as one of the characters uses a bow. Granted, said character is a mechanical, giant version of Medusa that shoots snake-shaped arrows, so it probably doesn't have too many points in common with real-world archery, but hey... :D

DM me if you want hell (at least I read you first line as such ) your suspicion of potential mix and match of various bowing styles is a good gut instinct on your part here have a photo of accurate bowing gear when you use a Kyudo style bow ...
In other words the exact opposite setup of a mongolian style bow (and explaining why would take forever with Kyudo style ... no for real guys ain't nobody got time for that in that thread )

maxresdefault.jpg
 
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