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Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
Capcom certainly never received enough shit for that outfit tbh. Literally a character possibly created in response to allegations of racism and then they include not only that an African tribe section, but gave her this outfit:
sheva_tribal.jpg



and also made sure to make her character exclusive weapon a BOW?
sheva_in_her_tribal_costume_by_xdoorwayxcreeperx_d2lngao-pre.jpg


Like bruh...
The heels perfect that outfit
 

Babymomo

Member
Aug 14, 2019
200
Anime is one of my favorite forms of animation for the last decade, though I ain't afraid to point out the flaws it has with sexualizing females. If they wanted to be fair, there would be a fuck ton more of Bara-centric anime (think Yaoi for gay men rather than straight women). Though yeah, I have a keen bias for flat-chests in terms of character appeal, though not to the point of being a minor. But that's around only three characters I really care about.
What is it with you and your weirdo off topic ramblings about sexualised men in threads where women and others disscuss how damaging media that objectifies women is
superthumb.jpg


How many times will I have to post this reminder... :\
www.resetera.com

Feminist Discussion of Anime and Manga |OT| Not your waifu OT

This is largely going to be a thread where people can discuss feminist theory of anime and manga as well as recommend ones that you believe show positive feminism. First let's briefly go over feminist theory. What is Feminist Theory? Feminist theory covers a broad range of topics, but for this...
aw that thread is dead and honestly there is so much to be said about how anime and anime inspired games come together and inspire each other, so honestly just give the anime disscussions a chance cause it might leads us to better discussions on how games do that shit as well
superthumb.jpg
 

kappapeachie

Member
Aug 5, 2019
123
This is a weird add question but does the anime art style usually tend to be a tall tale signs of questionable things to come? Like it isn't always mutually inclusive since there has been games with anime styles that avoid this yikes shit. Not common but it's always nice to find a few.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,059
I started playing Tomb Raider 2013, and while I appreciate that Lara has regular human breasts as opposed to giant balloon tiddies, the gratuitous torture porn kind of negates any goodwill I had towards the game in that regard :/

Yeah people had a problem with that even before the game came out. Part of it is a callback to how gruesome Lara's deaths were in the original Saturn game, but really a lot of Lara's characterization in TR13 is based on her getting the shit kicked out of her.

Yeah it's pretty messed up. I really hate the idea of characters becoming heroes by enduring pain and trauma. A while back I looked at a compilation of the death animations for it alongside one for Resident Evil 4, and it was really telling how Tomb Raider frequently focused on Lara's face as she was dying, while RE4, a horror game, always made sure you could never see Leon's face during any of its deaths.

The sole exception is a rare death animation for Leon -- when he gets killed by the acid from those insect dudes in the castle dungeon.

Just try and picture the modern TR but with Indiana Jones.

Does Indiana Jones really need a gritty reboot-backstory?

Modern TR just strikes me as an insecure teenager crying out for adult validation. "Look at me! I'm a grown-up!! TAKE ME SERIOUSLY!!!"

I never agreed with the whole "R-rated gritty survival" theme of the reboot. Really, in every fashion other than Lara's new character design and the improved gun combat, reboot Tomb Raider feels like a downgrade.

For starters I don't think they should've gone for an M rating. Reboot Tomb Raider in general is just way too violent. Uncharted is T-rated. Even Casino Royale and Batman Begins are PG-13 movies. Hell, they said TR13 was partly inspired by First Blood Part 1, which actually isn't a very violent movie. It kinda is, but Rambo doesn't intentionally kill anyone in it.

For the most part, Uncharted Lost Legacy is what I would've wanted a new Tomb Raider to be.

Capcom certainly never received enough shit for that outfit tbh. Literally a character possibly created in response to allegations of racism and then they include not only that an African tribe section, but gave her this outfit:
sheva_tribal.jpg



and also made sure to make her character exclusive weapon a BOW?
sheva_in_her_tribal_costume_by_xdoorwayxcreeperx_d2lngao-pre.jpg


Like bruh...

Holy shit I never noticed the heels.
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,365
Sheva's costumes were really bad, and skin tight leotard Jill was very bad too. It also sucks that the best part of resident evil 5 is definitely trying to S rank the Mercenaries mode in coop with a friend, and that mode the different skins were tied to specific gear load outs. So you couldn't even avoid the bad skins if it was also the gear load out you wanted for the challenging game mode.

Maybe BSAA Jill or Regular Sheva was your favourite appearance, but oops too bad the gear load out you wanted was on "Clubbin Sheva" or "Battlesuit Jill"
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,550
The late 00's early 10's got pretty bad. The worst for me was the Dead Island Bust

torso-zb_uk.0.jpg
This is one of this things that makes me feel like reality has descended into parody.

It's especially ridiculous when you remember how Dead Island tried to market itself "seriously" with that initial trailer.
 

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,415
Beaumont, CA
aw that thread is dead and honestly there is so much to be said about how anime and anime inspired games come together and inspire each other, so honestly just give the anime disscussions a chance cause it might leads us to better discussions on how games do that shit as well
Yeah I agree. I mean something like what we just had where "Hey the posing in this setup is very similar to what this anime did and that was all about sex yadda yadda" I think is unavoidable. But something like an actual anime discussion should be done in the other thread. Just my two cents. Not trying to backset mod. We're just getting into the fall season with a bunch of new shows, so I'm sure that thread will become active again soon.

Which game was it that came with a free mousemat of an anime girl, with her breasts as the wrist rest??
Those are so popular, I don't think it's just one...
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,304
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
That anime feminism thread was never going to be very successful, it wasn't even started by a woman/non-man. As a woman that's angrily shouted into the void that is anime fandom, particularly in the old country, I lost the will to talk about sexism/misogyny in anime when men have a large presence.
 

Foot

Member
Mar 10, 2019
10,885
This is a weird add question but does the anime art style usually tend to be a tall tale signs of questionable things to come? Like it isn't always mutually inclusive since there has been games with anime styles that avoid this yikes shit. Not common but it's always nice to find a few.
It certainly acts a warning sign for me. I love anime style art too, so it sucks that so much of it is steeped in deeeeeeeeep sexism.
 

Deleted member 8583

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,708
It certainly acts a warning sign for me. I love anime style art too, so it sucks that so much of it is steeped in deeeeeeeeep sexism.

Yeah, it's a sad development. When browsing games with steam daily recommendations if I see the anime tag there's like 70% chance that it comes with a nudity or sexual content tag.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
That anime feminism thread was never going to be very successful, it wasn't even started by a woman/non-man. As a woman that's angrily shouted into the void that is anime fandom, particularly in the old country, I lost the will to talk about sexism/misogyny in anime when men have a large presence.

...is it hypocritical of me to point out that men also unfortunately dominate this thread as well when I'm like the biggest instigator of that trend?
 

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
Just a little bit of snark here, but maybe the anime thread would be more active if the side-convos here just happened in there. >.>
...is it hypocritical of me to point out that men also unfortunately dominate this thread as well when I'm like the biggest instigator of that trend?

As has been said before, I don't think it's a bad thing that there's so many men in here, or in the anime thread, it's when they start yelling over everyone that it becomes an issue. Still, I understand the discomfort and the need for this to feel like a safer place.
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,304
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
...is it hypocritical of me to point out that men also unfortunately dominate this thread as well when I'm like the biggest instigator of that trend?
While there are number of men that participate in this thread, there are also a lot of active women/non-men in here. Plus a woman mod watching over the thread. Regardless, you're cool and I have no qualms with you. It's really men that are super invested in anime and accept/defend the status quo that I just can't deal with.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,346
The heels perfect that outfit
I imagine they were trying to think of footwear and then realized even while barely wearing anything she has to wear heels because of her default outfit and the walking anims.
Yeah it's pretty messed up. I really hate the idea of characters becoming heroes by enduring pain and trauma. A while back I looked at a compilation of the death animations for it alongside one for Resident Evil 4, and it was really telling how Tomb Raider frequently focused on Lara's face as she was dying, while RE4, a horror game, always made sure you could never see Leon's face during any of its deaths.
Technology limitations are a big factor here. A reminder that during that era it was incredibly rare for character faces to actually move during gameplay. A better comparison would be games during the same console generation. RE5/6 featured a lot more close ups of the face during death scenes.
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,304
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
Speaking of death animations, I appreciate that as violent/gory as the Gears of War series is it doesn't give you a very clear view of the death animations. Especially the ones involving decapitations/head stomps. At least during the campaign, can't speak for multiplayer.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,601
That anime feminism thread was never going to be very successful, it wasn't even started by a woman/non-man. As a woman that's angrily shouted into the void that is anime fandom, particularly in the old country, I lost the will to talk about sexism/misogyny in anime when men have a large presence.
To be fair to him, he asked for volunteers and only started it when there weren't any.

But certainly there should not be complaints about inactivity in a thread which is not being supported. Go support it If it needs activity and one feels strongly about it. It's nonsensical to make posts about it elsewhere instead of bumping the primary topic, lol.
 

kappapeachie

Member
Aug 5, 2019
123
It certainly acts a warning sign for me. I love anime style art too, so it sucks that so much of it is steeped in deeeeeeeeep sexism.

ye. as an artist i tend to lean towards it myself but most of the time i tend avoid common cliches i kinda dislike from the medium like lolis and and other yikes shit. but even if you remove all of those you still gonna be dumped in the same box as creepos and other sorts of problem people. i wish in a perfect world this wasn't the case and anime is at least not emblematic of it but ey.

random stuff, i heard someone mention lady cindy a few pages ago and realized the more i think of her deisgn the less sense it makes. this woman is suppose to be a mechanic yet she dresses like this:

latest


my science teacher from middle once joked about a scene in this comedy film where a chick in skimpy clothes tries to open the front rear of the car then gas comes out. realistically, she would have been gained degree burns from that.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,405
For the Tomb Raider reboot, it's also worth mentioning the thought process behind Lara's portayal:

"You'll want to protect her."

kotaku.com

You'll 'Want To Protect' The New, Less Curvy Lara Croft

In the past, Lara Croft didn't need protecting. She was a fearless daredevil, a crack shot in short shorts with enough attitude to scare off a pack of bloodthirsty gorillas.

This is an article from way back in 2012, before the first reboot game (TR2013) came out.

But in the upcoming Tomb Raider reboot, things will be different. She hasn't become that woman yet. And executive producer Ron Rosenberg says you'll want to keep her safe.

"When people play Lara, they don't really project themselves into the character," Rosenberg told me at E3 last week when I asked if it was difficult to develop for a female protagonist.

"They're more like 'I want to protect her.' There's this sort of dynamic of 'I'm going to this adventure with her and trying to protect her.'"

So is she still the hero? I asked Rosenberg if we should expect to look at Lara a little bit differently than we have in the past.

"She's definitely the hero but— you're kind of like her helper," he said. "When you see her have to face these challenges, you start to root for her in a way that you might not root for a male character."
I don't remember the overall reaction to this news, but to me it always seemed really insulting to its audience (and Lara as a character). And low-key misogynistic tbh.
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
Tr 2013 is a pretty shallow and generic game imo.

The 2000s tr gamds have mods for extra outfits for lara which i plan on using in my future playtrhu of them.
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,304
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
Tomb Raider (2013) wanted to be gritty Uncharted (yes I know the Tomb Raider series influenced it) and just fell flat on its face. The Metroid-esque exploration was nice and the combat serviceable but lordy that story was shit. Including the queerbaiting, pretty sure the scriptwriter wanted Lara x Sam to be a thing.

Bought the GF Indivisible and watching her play. Dear Lucifer, the animators at Lab Zero Games really couldn't keep it in their pants with some of the idle animations for the bustier women like Thorani. Speaking of which, her introduction looked to have her making unwanted sexual advances on the protagonist. 😐
 
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Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
Tomb raider couldve only influenced uncharted if the latter had proper puzzles and platforming and not become generic and uninspired shooting gallery where you go from one shoot out to the next.
Og tomb raiders were about exploration' puzzles and platforming. The shooting was basic and simple.
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
Why you gotta shit on Uncharted like that? (Yes, I know Uncharted isn't 100% like pre-reboot Tomb Raider.)
I once replayed theu uc1 and 2 on ps4 and its constant shoot outs bored me. Fancy graphics can only entertain me for so long before i realize i keep doing the same gameplay loop over and over.

At least with 3 they tried to make it more light adventure and in uc4 they went for further light adventure elements. May need to replay uc4 again someday to see how i feel about it
Same with lost legacy @_@
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
The best thing they could do for Lara (as in the character) the next time she returns is to bring back her attitude and backstory (like her doing what she does because she likes it even though her parents disowned her because of it) from the first series (PSX era) and make her character design less sexist.

The current reboot's character design is something they should look at but I feel they can also mix it with classic Lara in some places. Give her back the braided hair and the round sun glasses. Give her back the acrobatic movements and the dual pistols. Make her more stylish while still feeling like a non sexualized woman.

This game itself is something for another topic.
 

ShyMel

Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
3,483
I don't remember the overall reaction to this news, but to me it always seemed really insulting to its audience (and Lara as a character). And low-key misogynistic tbh.
People in general did not seem to care for the statement and turned "you'll want to protect her" into a joke response in TR threads over the internet.
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,365
Indivisible is by the skull girls people right? They are pretty all over the place with some super hyper sexualized gross character designs, but every now and then you also get some gems.

I loved Peacock.
latest
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,251
Bought the GF Indivisible and watching her play. Dear Lucifer, the animators at Lab Zero Games really couldn't keep it in their pants with some of the idle animations for the bustier women like Thorani. Speaking of which, her introduction looked to have her making unwanted sexual advances on the protagonist. 😐

Thorani's idle animation is eyebrow-raising (though that's to be expected with Lab Zero), but she seems more maternal than anything to me other than that.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,059
The puzzles and platforming in Uncharted might've been inspired by Sands of Time more than anything else, but Tomb Raider's mark on gaming in general is undeniable. TR1 along with Mario 64 basically defined 3D platforming and environmental puzzle solving. Sands of Time started a new era of that kind of game.

And even back when Uncharted 1 came out I was disappointed in how shoot-heavy it was. I liked Uncharted 2 a lot more but Uncharted 4 is the only one that has the balance between action and puzzles I actually wanted... and people complained that it felt like a "walking simulator".
 
May 13, 2019
1,589
Indivisible is by the skull girls people right? They are pretty all over the place with some super hyper sexualized gross character designs, but every now and then you also get some gems.

I loved Peacock.
latest
On the subject of Skullgirls, does anyone remember that topic in NeoGaf where a guy exposited his belief that the game's off-putting character designs were the reason of why it wasn't hugely successful? That remains as one of the most on-point threads I've ever read on that site.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,504
On the subject of Skullgirls, does anyone remember that topic in NeoGaf where a guy exposited his belief that the game's off-putting character designs were the reason of why it wasn't hugely successful? That remains as one of the most on-point threads I've ever read on that site.
Nothing suggests that Skullgirls wasn't successful commercially.
Skullgirls sold over 50,000 copies across both platforms within ten days, becoming the highest selling game on the Xbox Live Arcade upon its release and third best-selling title on PlayStation Network for April 2012. The game saw a similar performance in Japan, climbing to the top of PSN's list of best-selling downloadable PlayStation 3 titles within a week. According to Peter Bartholow, CEO of Lab Zero Games, Skullgirls met Japanese publisher CyberFront's lifetime sales expectations in the first two weeks of release. On September 4, 2017, Zaimont announced that Skullgirls had sold one million copies on Steam.

Its overseas reception even led to an arcade release in Japan.

Not as popular as it could've been as a tournament game in the FGC, but that's arguably more the result of the art style chosen than anything else from what I've observed (abundance of cheesecake specifically was no more of a deterrent in that scene than with other fighters, something like DoA not getting anywhere among competitive players because it's not well-liked mechanically).
 

Joe2187

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,521
Art design for indivisible and Skullgirls is credited to mostly Alex Ahad and Mariel Kinuko both are well known for cartoonish pinup art so it's not surprising there is a lot of cheesecake aesthetics for most of the games art.
 

CO_Andy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,510
Skoolgirls has been ported to every platform under the sun. The game might just be the most commercially successful indie fighter.
 

Joe2187

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,521
Skoolgirls has been ported to every platform under the sun. The game might just be the most commercially successful indie fighter.

Not gonna lie, the phone (Mobile) version is probably one the most competent free mobile games I've played.

They're even adding in a free PVP mode later this month which basically lets anyone play skullgirls for free.
 
May 13, 2019
1,589
Not as popular as it could've been as a tournament game in the FGC, but that's arguably more the result of the art style chosen than anything else from what I've observed (abundance of cheesecake specifically was no more of a deterrent in that scene than with other fighters, something like DoA not getting anywhere among competitive players because it's not well-liked mechanically).
Now that I remember, the guy made the topic around Skullgirls' lack of popularity in the FGC and chalk it up solely to the artstyle.
 

Aexact

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,262
Now that I remember, the guy made the topic around Skullgirls' lack of popularity in the FGC and chalk it up solely to the artstyle.
Were they talking about the cheesecake or the macabre element cause I feel like the cheesecake element wouldn't be that off putting in the FGC. Like, there's a lot of T&A but T&A is passé. The more standout element was the weirdness of it. People throwing their heads and spines to fight.
 

Joe2187

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,521
Now that I remember, the guy made the topic around Skullgirls' lack of popularity in the FGC and chalk it up solely to the artstyle.

Skullgirls gets more entrants than you think for locals and major tournies...you just dont see them highlighted. I've been to many. Fighting game players dont give a shit about what the art style looks like as long as the game plays good....SFxTekken and MVC: Infinite are still played regularly every single week regardless of being ugly...the games are damn good. People still play Mortal Kombat, an art style even in the newest games I still find offputting....still good games.

These games arent made for mainstream appeal...with Skullgirls it was always gonna be an extremely niche market and the devs knew that from the beginning. "Did you like Marvel 2? yeah...did you like sprites? yeah? did you like Tag team fighters? yeah? did you like the ratio system from CVSNK2? yeah? Do you like traditional animations? yeah...then maybe this game is for you.

The other thing is Sonicfox one of the most famous FGC players around started his tournament career as a skullgirls top player, and is still a reigning champion in pretty much every tournament he enters.
 

Master Milk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,450
The reason Skullgirls isn't bigger in the FGC is because it's not made by Capcom, it's not backed by a big publisher, and it's not a legacy title with decades of history and fanbase to pull from. The last reason is probably the only one that really matters at this point, but the first two were certainly factors when the game first game out.

Sonicfox got his start as a DOA player.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,504
While Sonicfox is one of the most prolific FGC players, BBTAG and Soul Calibur VI were among the more recent games he's played in tournaments where he hasn't gained much traction (pretty sure he's already dropped the former, though having made top 8 in one very early tournament for it IIRC).
Were they talking about the cheesecake or the macabre element cause I feel like the cheesecake element wouldn't be that off putting in the FGC. Like, there's a lot of T&A but T&A is passé. The more standout element was the weirdness of it. People throwing their heads and spines to fight.
Darkstalkers would be the closest comparison in regards to overall weirdness/macabre vibe, and also doesn't get as much attention (particularly by Capcom standards).
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,304
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
Thorani's idle animation is eyebrow-raising (though that's to be expected with Lab Zero), but she seems more maternal than anything to me other than that.
I could see the developers using her being a maternal figure as justification for the ample bosom. 🙄 I didn't mean to seem 100% certain about her being a creep, it just came off that way from the dialogue bit I heard.
Yeah, Thorani reminds me of either a strong maternal figure or a counselor more than anything else. Thorani's animations seem... let's be generous and say excessive?
Yep, the breast bouncing is excessive. It's worse than your standard anime fanservice, though at least both breasts are bouncing in unison.
 
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