• The GiftBot 2.0 Launch Giveaway Extravaganza has come to a close with an astounding 8073 games given away to the community by 696 members, a huge success thanks to you! The gifting now continues with more official prizes in the new Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Leftover Steam codes are also being given away to the PC Gaming Era community.

Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
607
It's been a while, but at one point I was playing quite a bit of overwatch. If you had told me that was the original tracer model I wouldn't have known the difference. I also would have thought that was just mercy's default model with a haircut. The proportions on tracer ARE insane of course, but they always were right? Or am I remembering her as worse than she was.

I do like Mei's new super clunky boots.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,754
Blizzard - Masters of Generic

This really just feels like an art director gave up halfway through. It would be nice if they would either get back to their more comic-oriented roots or take inspiration from somewhere because the art is bland. And honestly I think mediocrity is the worst place to be, because it shows there's no spark (and yes, a bad game is bad because someone was trying and didn't know what they were doing - a game is mediocre because people knew what they were doing and just didn't have any inspiration or direction).
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,417
Canada
Blizzard - Masters of Generic

This really just feels like an art director gave up halfway through. It would be nice if they would either get back to their more comic-oriented roots or take inspiration from somewhere because the art is bland. And honestly I think mediocrity is the worst place to be, because it shows there's no spark (and yes, a bad game is bad because someone was trying and didn't know what they were doing - a game is mediocre because people knew what they were doing and just didn't have any inspiration or direction).
I feel that way about their fantasy stuff. WarCraft especially just has a 'look' I'm really bored with from them for really bulky junk.

Although I find Overwatch a relatively 'safe' concept, I've really enjoyed the art direction.

That said, Lilith looks great. Chic and dark; I've always beena sucker for a bold, gold, and black combo.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,632
Ok what is with certain posters on this website just eagerly dismissing any opinion by any minority (be it racial, sexual, and LGBT related)? You can't have any discussion outside this thread because they will all just pile in to let you know that you don't matter. It's frustrating as all hell.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,235
Ok what is with certain posters on this website just eagerly dismissing any opinion by any minority (be it racial, sexual, and LGBT related)? You can't have any discussion outside this thread because they will all just pile in to let you know that you don't matter. It's frustrating as all hell.
I'm guessing your referring to the Persona thread?
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,986
Ok what is with certain posters on this website just eagerly dismissing any opinion by any minority (be it racial, sexual, and LGBT related)? You can't have any discussion outside this thread because they will all just pile in to let you know that you don't matter. It's frustrating as all hell.
At its core this place is still mainly a "gaming community" and it carries a lot of the worst of the other site and the "community" in general. This place it isn't progressive at all. You see many opinions getting dismissed from people from the "developing world", people with decolonial thoughts, in favor of animal rights and liberation, many ideas that challenge Western "logic" dismissed and laughed. With that said there are many wonderful people that tries to challenge all that and I'm grateful for them and all that I have learned thanks to their contributions.
 
Oct 28, 2017
706
Ok what is with certain posters on this website just eagerly dismissing any opinion by any minority (be it racial, sexual, and LGBT related)? You can't have any discussion outside this thread because they will all just pile in to let you know that you don't matter. It's frustrating as all hell.
That's been my experience as well - as someone who doesn't hit any minority categories except queer (pansexual) it is super painful to watch or try to participate in discussions where this is happening. Many of us like to think this forum is "so woke" but when it comes time to take in the actual lived experiences of a minority, we (as a group) fail repeatedly.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,235
I'd say Era is pretty progressive.

As long as you don't criticize a person's favorite piece of entertainment. That's why such discussions of anime, Kojima, etc. turn so toxic.

As an aside, also political candidates. You should have seen the hostility on Neogaf when BLM protested one of Bernie Sanders rallies in 2015.
 

Mib

Member
Nov 16, 2017
216
I'd say Era is pretty progressive.

As long as you don't criticize a person's favorite piece of entertainment. That's why such discussions of anime, Kojima, etc. turn so toxic.

As an aside, also political candidates. You should have seen the hostility on Neogaf when BLM protested one of Bernie Sanders rallies in 2015.
Part of it is that a lot of posters, even if they identify and agree with progressivism, don't think about these things all that much (especially people who aren't minorities) and don't know a lot about certain subjects to actually pick up on things past a surface level.

Off topic, but things like people defending blizzard because they 'apologized', while missing the part where Blizzard is a company and can't actually feel sorry, and that the man on stage is there (partly) to do PR. It seems like an apology on first glance, and that's as far as a lot of people go.
 

timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,331
They just announced Hilde for Soul Calibur 6

Her transition to a full boob plate is sadly complete
Well, crap. I shouldn't be surprised based on how all the women characters were designed in SC6, but I was still hoping they would faithfully recreate her SC4 armor. This one really hurts. Hilde was my gold standard for how to design women knights for a long time. This week has been a real downer in terms of gaming news.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,988
Brazil
Well, crap. I shouldn't be surprised based on how all the women characters were designed in SC6, but I was still hoping they would faithfully recreate her SC4 armor. This one really hurts. Hilde was my gold standard for how to design women knights for a long time. This week has been a real downer in terms of gaming news.
Titania is still the queen
If not even Fire Emblem Heroes did her a boob plate, she is good for a long time =P
 

timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,331
Titania is still the queen
If not even Fire Emblem Heroes did her a boob plate, she is good for a long time =P
Well it's good to know there is still at least one armored badass still out there. Hopefully next gen will be the one where we get a lot of awesome rpgs with well designed armor.
 

GLAVONAK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,168
Honestly their principle designs haven’t changed too drastically. Although Mercy has pseudo underboob now?
it’s weird, it looks like they kinda toned down the boob armor of the original design but now she has those weird prices on top that give the look of underboob




and Tracer’s new model still has her leggings jammed up into her sphincter
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,235
I really want to know this too. Almost no review that I could see made any mention of it. Pretty disappointing.
Did reviews of MGSV bring up Quiet? I genuinely don't remember.

Braixen and Primarina in particular. It's always vague "this Pokemon is trash" singling out of feminine Pokemon.
Huh. Didn't know that was a thing in the Pokemon community.

If I had to take a guess, those Pokemon fans expect all Pokemon to be badass looking i.e. coded male.
 
Last edited:

Richter1887

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,290
I still can't comprehend how someone could find the new Hilde design good looking or even attractive.

Like seriously, how the hell do they keep coming up with worse and worse designs?
 

Shandy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
263
Such a soft and malleable metal, for her breasts to still move as they do. This plate is of questionable composition and quality!
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,986

Vee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
729
Hilde is literally the only SC character I like (from a design and story standpoint) and they just shit all over her.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,171
The designs in overwatch 2 seem a lot " sleeker" or simplified and persnanlized than the previous game. It makes me curious what they are going to do with some of the games crazier designs from the previous game. Like say moira or reaper
 

Shining Star

Member
May 14, 2019
821
What. Can I join you in this parallel universe?
Hm, of the 36 anime I tried out last year it only felt like maybe 6 of them were specifically aimed at men, and those were the bad ones I didn't finish lol. I think it seems like a lot of anime is male-targeted because those are the kind that are popular over here in the West, but if you follow anime and watch a lot you see that's not really true. One of the reasons I love anime so much is that compared to other mediums it's by far the biggest and most consistent source of great female characters. That just doesn't come through if you're looking at what Crunchyroll is advertising or whatever.
 

Mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,912
Kotaku's Death Stranding review gets in to a little bit how women are treated in the game if anyone is curious. It's been the big thing I've been wanting to know about the game.

Death Stranding sometimes falls into reductive gender tropes, in much the same way that other Kojima games do. This is a story of fatherhood, very often to the expense of the women in the cast. Sam’s ongoing bond with his bridge baby intersects with the story of Mads Mikkelsen’s mysterious villain Cliff, underpinning the main plot’s world-shaking politics with more human and relatable sentiments. But Death Stranding stumbles when the time comes to handle the women and their stories. There are gestures at motherhood themes to go along with the fatherhood themes, such as a storyline that uses ghosts as metaphor for postpartum depression, but this is ultimately a story about men, and one where even the bravest sacrifices of the female characters come hand in hand with the same characteristic leering camerawork of Kojima’s previous games. It’s never so gross as Metal Gear Solid V’s Quiet, but it’s still a noticeable issue that undercuts the narrative’s larger examination of parental pain and sacrifice.

That said, Death Stranding is also just as infatuated with the male body. Whether that’s the sensual framing of Mikkelsen smoking a cigarette or the way the camera moves to ensure you’ve seen just enough of Reedus’ naked body during shower scenes, Death Stranding’s bisexual camera is more interested in men than even the torture-laden, blood licking Metal Gear franchise. The difference is ultimately in how lovingly men are framed compared to women, both by the literal camera and also their place in the larger narrative. Fragile’s body can be marred by timefall, rain lapping at her skin, but it’s still ultimately Léa Seydoux running in the rain as the camera focuses on her ass. Reedus stands naked on a beach, and Mikkelsen rises out of a tar pit, and yeah, it’s sexy, but they’re also allowed far more nobility.
 
Last edited:

SapphiCine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,385
Hm, of the 36 anime I tried out last year it only felt like maybe 6 of them were specifically aimed at men, and those were the bad ones I didn't finish lol. I think it seems like a lot of anime is male-targeted because those are the kind that are popular over here in the West, but if you follow anime and watch a lot you see that's not really true. One of the reasons I love anime so much is that compared to other mediums it's by far the biggest and most consistent source of great female characters. That just doesn't come through if you're looking at what Crunchyroll is advertising or whatever.
I may not be on the up and up for what's come out recently, but I still don't buy your original claim. I'll concede there has probably been more shows aimed at women in recent years but I'm going to need some evidence that anime aimed at "both genders equally" eclipses anime aimed at men.
the biggest and most consistent source of great female characters
I feel we have very different criteria for what makes a good woman character.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,754
Hm, of the 36 anime I tried out last year it only felt like maybe 6 of them were specifically aimed at men, and those were the bad ones I didn't finish lol. I think it seems like a lot of anime is male-targeted because those are the kind that are popular over here in the West, but if you follow anime and watch a lot you see that's not really true. One of the reasons I love anime so much is that compared to other mediums it's by far the biggest and most consistent source of great female characters. That just doesn't come through if you're looking at what Crunchyroll is advertising or whatever.
Much like SapphiCine I don't buy this for a second. And I watch a lot of shows. They are almost all, categorically, aimed at men. There are a handful every season that aren't, but given that there are roughly 60 shows every season now, having that handful is honestly pretty pathetic. And without some evidence showing the needle tipping more towards parity I'm really disinclined to buy that statement.
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
607
I play a lot of this game Dead by Daylight, an Asymmetrical multiplayer game where basically 4 players are trying to escape from 1 player who is a slasher movie villain (some of them licensed) and I wanted to compliment how good the majority of the original character women in the game are.

Most of the women survivor characters are fully clothed in their default skins, and even with the pay cosmetics there are very few scantily clad options. The killers are a bit hit or miss (Spirit is just straight up as naked as bandage mileena from MK9 back in the day, which is unfortunate) but some of the women killers are still very good.

Some survivors:



And some killers:

 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,235
If Death Stranding does have commentary on motherhood like some reviewers are saying, please god don't be as dumb as Other M.
 

thebigword

Member
Oct 27, 2017
315
Is anyone else exhausted of this attitude of "(insert creator) is a brilliant, GENIUS auter of their medium" while simultaneously ignoring the rampant misogyny in the creator's works, which prevails not just with Hideo Kojima, but with so many male content creators across most art forms? It gets so tiring seeing the sexism not only ignored, but the person behind the sexism being treated as a genius as well.
I know this response is late, but I just want to say thank you for posting this. I've been wanting to say something like this for a while, but was afraid I'd get dog-piled and pretty much run off from this site.
 
Last edited:

timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,331
I remember as a kid playing MGS and feeling weird about a few moments with Meryl and Sniper Wolf. I overlooked them because the game was fun, and those moments were just a small part of a much larger game. Then I played MGS2, and things just got really uncomfortable. For every cool moment there was gross stuff. Pretty much no woman walks out of that game unscathed. Fortune has a stupid design, Olga gets pretty much nothing to work with, everything to do with Otacon's family, and Rose's weird relationship with Raiden. The game was weird and trippy by design, but its treatment of pretty much every female character just stood out to me.

I used to kind of excuse it, just assuming that it was an eccentricity from Kojima, or tongue in cheek, but it has only gotten worse. Even more disappointing is that Kojima gets only more and more deified. He has made some good videogames, but his works have a long history of objectification and misogyny. I doubt he will ever really change, and have avoided pretty much all his games since MGS3.
 

xendless

Member
Jan 23, 2019
1,150
Is anyone else exhausted of this attitude of "(insert creator) is a brilliant, GENIUS auter of their medium" while simultaneously ignoring the rampant misogyny in the creator's works, which prevails not just with Hideo Kojima, but with so many male content creators across most art forms? It gets so tiring seeing the sexism not only ignored, but the person behind the sexism being treated as a genius as well.
An issue is with a lot of dudes who wanna seem woke act like Kojima and/or David Cage is the be all end all symptom of this in the industry
Then turn around and fellate Yoko Taro, Kamiya, et al who are just as bad
 

Lumi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,462
Is anyone else exhausted of this attitude of "(insert creator) is a brilliant, GENIUS auter of their medium" while simultaneously ignoring the rampant misogyny in the creator's works, which prevails not just with Hideo Kojima, but with so many male content creators across most art forms? It gets so tiring seeing the sexism not only ignored, but the person behind the sexism being treated as a genius as well.
Yoko Taro not only gets a pass, but he's hailed as some lovable, wacky, subversive maverick because he's...open about being horny. Anything fetishistic is only treated as another hilarious wacky stunt.
 

NoirSuede

Member
Oct 25, 2017
320
Man im glad I quit Honkai Impact 3rd after these two came out:


They don't even try to hide their underwear wtf.


Coincidentally this was also during the time all the top tiers in the game are either underage or "underage" with the ol non-aging excuse (in this game she's a defective clone that cant grow past the physical state of a 12 year old), so it really singled the devs out as a closet pedophile

Oh and also this game literally uses the Evangelion excuse to make almost the entire roster girl teens
 
Last edited:

timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,331
I sadly didn't understand how sexist/misogynistic the Metal Gear Solid series is until I was an adult.
I didn't even know how to explain it until I was in university. I just knew it made me feel weird, and moments felt wrong. I think a lot of young people play these games, and they get attached to the characters, world, and performances, and even if the pick up on the misogyny they aren't sure how to process it. All my childhood friends hated the stuff with Otacon's family in MGS2, but they didn't know how to talk about it, and a bunch of teenagers would rather talk about cool giant war machines instead of weird gender politics.

In some ways Quiet was like a minor cultural breaking point. She was just such a laughable example of cheap fanservice and the "words and deeds" defense was so crazy that justifying it became much harder. It made gender discussions harder to dismiss, at least with people who were willing to have an honest conversation.
 

NoirSuede

Member
Oct 25, 2017
320
Yoko Taro not only gets a pass, but he's hailed as some lovable, wacky, subversive maverick because he's...open about being horny. Anything fetishistic is only treated as another hilarious wacky stunt.
I swear he's only gets a pass on his horniness bc of how anime-adjacent his game's communities are, like imagine a book writer behaving the same way Yoko Taro does, their career would just die
 

SapphiCine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,385
I don't think Yoko Taro would have gotten this far and with such critical acclaim if not for the women that have held up the writing in his games, namely Sawako Natori. Hana Kikuchi too though, I know less about them. Both of them performed a miracle by making Kaine a damn compelling character in Nier despite the tasteless character design.
 

Alice

Member
Nov 2, 2017
5,205
The Japanese ver. has Gogo use the word masculine word 'ore', but honestly...in my mind that can be gendre fluid since 'ore' is kind of a narcisstic way of expressing oneself :V
Ore and boku aren't signs that a character is male. Strong willed female characters use masculine words all the time.