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Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
13,048
Prefacing this with the fact that I've never played a Kojima game and don't plan to: I don't understand people who give Kojima's hideous misogyny a pass because he's a "genius". Like, everything I've heard about his games just makes him sound like a pretentious ass who's high on his own farts.
I think people are a bit more forgiving because MGS1-3 were mostly reigned in on this regard, even if they still had some problematic designs here and there (Sniper Wolf, EVA), and had bad ideas outright rejected (The Boss exposing cleavage in her final battle). The stories and characters in those games were still batshit insane and wacky, but for the most part, entertaining and occasionally thought-provoking with super tight gameplay and design.

Both the level design and story started to get away from him in MGS4, and from there on it feels like more creepy shit gets into his games. I'm not sure if it's because he developed enough clout by then that he had free license to do whatever he want (and even not then - he originally wanted the B&B squad in MGS4 to be completely nude), or he genuinely got worse with these sort of things. People have been openly critical of Kojima games since MGS4 for many reasons, but I think there is occasionally enough there for fans to latch onto and get excited about from a storytelling perspective. There are very few directors in the AAA space as committed to subversive and outright bizarre storytelling, so his problems get a pass in that regard.

My perspective is different as I was a latecomer to the MGS franchise, I played MGS1-4 and PW in the span of a couple of months, but there has definitely been a slippery slope that has accelerated since MGS4, and because of the goodwill he's built with the first few games, people are willing to look the other way - although I feel like it's definitely gotten a lot of blowback in recent years. "Ashamed of your words and deeds" is an internet meme for a reason.

I'm interested in Death Stranding, but I am in no rush to play it, and although I enjoy a lot of Kojima's wacky antics, I'm not sure I'm ready for another Quiet scenario. At this point, I think Kojima is simply too old and set in his ways to change his stance on these things in any significant way, unless higher-ups reign in him.
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
603
What is it with JRPGs and having their female characters stand with their feet and knees pointed inward in the most uncomfortable looking way possible? The FemC in Digimon Cyber Sleuth has posture so bad that it starts to look painful the longer you stare at in, and now I noticed that the new FemC in Sword and Shield is doing the same sort of pose with her legs as well.

Edit: Example

And while Pokemon is not as bad, it still makes me feel bad for all of the aching she's going to get in her joints. LOL
I have Knee Valgus, or Knock Knees, and I don't think those screenshots seem that crazy. Like I get that animators are probably aren't thinking "lets give representation to this minor deformity" when they make characters like that Digimon girl, but I'm not going to complain about seeing people stand like that.
That Pokemon girl is not going to be in any pain from it, she only has a very slight valgus. Mine is comparable to hers and It only causes me any extra pain during periods of extended physical exertion, like for example when I play soccer, after I've been going for a while. Just standing and walking around like normal? nah.
 

NoirSuede

Member
Oct 25, 2017
295
I'm interested in Death Stranding, but I am in no rush to play it, and although I enjoy a lot of Kojima's wacky antics, I'm not sure I'm ready for another Quiet scenario. At this point, I think Kojima is simply too old and set in his ways to change his stance on these things in any significant way, unless higher-ups reign in him.
Wasn't the whole reason Kojima made his own studio was because so he would never be meddled by higher-ups ever again, he's at least the 4th videogame auteur-type to have done this from what I can recall (George Romero with Daikatana, Peter Molyneux with Lionhead Studios, and Tomonobu Itagaki with Devil's Third)
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
13,048
Wasn't the whole reason Kojima made his own studio was because so he would never be meddled by higher-ups ever again, he's at least the 4th videogame auteur-type to have done this from what I can recall (George Romero with Daikatana, Peter Molyneux with Lionhead Studios, and Tomonobu Itagaki with Devil's Third)
I would assume if Death Stranding doesn't meet expectations, the next time Sony or any other publisher writes him a check, they will not necessarily give him carte blanche. It's perhaps wishful thinking, as I enjoy his games but the sexualization aspects are way too over the top and distracting. It kinda reminds me of Joss Whedon, who was perceived as a progressive creator in the 90s, but failed to change his ways as the years went on, and arguably became worse, and now looks downright regressive.
 

Bloodarmz

Member
Jul 11, 2018
328
What is it with JRPGs and having their female characters stand with their feet and knees pointed inward in the most uncomfortable looking way possible? The FemC in Digimon Cyber Sleuth has posture so bad that it starts to look painful the longer you stare at in, and now I noticed that the new FemC in Sword and Shield is doing the same sort of pose with her legs as well.
~Crocodile Dundee voice~
You call that a pigeon-toe?
Naw, this is a pigeon-toe!

(Lissa from Fire Emblem Heroes)

Please clarify this asexual thing about Death Stranding because I seriously can't believe what I'm reading. Kojima can't be THAT dumb.
Yeah, the game seems to have some "ideas" about asexuality. I heard it on the Waypoint podcast (should start at 58:40):
 

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
115
What is it with JRPGs and having their female characters stand with their feet and knees pointed inward in the most uncomfortable looking way possible? The FemC in Digimon Cyber Sleuth has posture so bad that it starts to look painful the longer you stare at in, and now I noticed that the new FemC in Sword and Shield is doing the same sort of pose with her legs as well.
I can't seem to find where I originally read about this, but this is actually something that young Japanese girls and teens do to look cute. They will physically force themselves to walk and stand like that, and I have to imagine it's bad for their growth and development, but you know...CUTE!!!

Here's a video of girls actually doing it:

 

Static_Void

Banned
Oct 30, 2018
3,254
north of the Dreamlands
Prefacing this with the fact that I've never played a Kojima game and don't plan to: I don't understand people who give Kojima's hideous misogyny a pass because he's a "genius". Like, everything I've heard about his games just makes him sound like a pretentious ass who's high on his own farts.
His games have a very convoluted way of telling stories, and usually contain a lot of pseudoscience and weird spiritual concepts. This can give the illusion that there is more depth to these games than there really is. This is mostly why some people are calling him a “genius” without seeing (or acknowledging) the awful misogyny.

Also, MGS 1 and 2 came out in times where people wanted to believe that the video game format had evolved from kids toy to art form. Convoluted “mature” games like these helped support that idea.

But there’s nothing genius about his games. When you piece the narratives together everything falls apart quickly. And all that is left is the misogyny.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,586
Reminder that MGS1's main story relies on a complete misunderstanding of how human genes actually work.

Did Kojima and his galaxy brain seriously connect asexuality itself to an analogue of Japan's declining birth and marriage rates?
How did he figure out are master plan! Japan was to be our testing ground before we implemented it around the world for total domination!

Uh...I mean...*Smoke Bomb*
 

Billy Awesomo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
802
New York, New York
Its funny because these guys are the KOF fans that A. Were really never going to buy the game or B. Buy the game play it for maybe a week and be over it.

The no mai no buy crowd dont actually give a shit about mai or FF/KOF in general. Doesnt help that from what i hear mais never been particularly good in the past couple of games from a tier perspective(i could be super wrong on this)
She's actually really good in XIV and was pretty good in XIII. She had a good amount of infinite combos in 99. I best liked using her in KOF 96-98, after KOF 99 they removed a crap ton of her move set. I mean she wasn't terrible in later games but the lack of a lot of her older moves didn't help her out much either. Not going to lie I've always liked Mai both as a character and her play style, although I never really liked her KOF designs nearly as much as her Fatal Fury designs, her Fatal Fury 3 and Real bout 2 and special had my favorite design. The cheesecake factor is pumped up to the Max in KOF, which I always found strange considering her roots in the Fatal Fury games. I sort of wish they would just use her Fatal Fury 3 design and call it a day.
 

Mib

Member
Nov 16, 2017
215
What is it with JRPGs and having their female characters stand with their feet and knees pointed inward in the most uncomfortable looking way possible? The FemC in Digimon Cyber Sleuth has posture so bad that it starts to look painful the longer you stare at in, and now I noticed that the new FemC in Sword and Shield is doing the same sort of pose with her legs as well.

Edit: Example



And while Pokemon is not as bad, it still makes me feel bad for all of the aching she's going to get in her joints. LOL
IIRC it's a real thing (along with things like higher pitched cutsey voices) that some Japanese women do. It's supposed to be be cute and feminine.
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
603
I wasn't offended at first about the Knee post but the responses after I brought up that Knee Valgus is a thing are starting to get to me. Like ya'll really never heard of Knock Knees? Just go walk around in a large crowd and you'll see a small number of people like that, and they aren't doing it "to look cute".
 

NoirSuede

Member
Oct 25, 2017
295
I wasn't offended at first about the Knee post but the responses after I brought up that Knee Valgus is a thing are starting to get to me. Like ya'll really never heard of Knock Knees? Just go walk around in a large crowd and you'll see a small number of people like that, and they aren't doing it "to look cute".
I dont think the guys who drew anime girls with that pose even know about Knee Valgus...
 

residentgrigo

Member
Oct 30, 2019
195
Germany
The African sun bleached Liquid´s hair Brian Damage. Carry on though. I will never excuse the seething misogyny in many of his works.

It started in 1988 with Snatcher (MSX and PC Engine), the first Kojima game with a real story. The protagonist Gillian -age 31- can show his penis instead of his badge to Katrina -age 14- when you introduce yourself to her. This is right after her cop father gets brutally murdered. You also get to see her breasts later when you walk in on her showering as you think that she is being attacked. You can also smell her panties and... the list is long in the non-US version.
The expanded version of game ends with you and your wife coming back together as you solve the case of your mutual amnesia but the other 2 women in the game (age 14 and 23) basically from a harem manga relationship with Gillian during the final scene that builds up a concluding sequel that never came.
Policenauts is equally filled with similar stuff.

I don´t want to mansplain Kojima´s works here but I finished all the games he directed and most of the things he produced. This often repulsive nonsense was there since the very start as he had no oversight on his 2 adventure games. The rape, sexualized torture and literally every scene with Quite in MSG V is the nadir of his treatment of women and his writing for his LGBT characters (look up Dr. Strangelove to get the worst of it) is equal garbage. I was physically disgusted by some of the scenes in the MGSV "duology" and that is coming from the man with a Berserk avatar.

Kojima has many qualities. One of them is game design but he needs an editor and a tight leash and Sony clearly said no to that. We´ll see.
 
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Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,796
I wasn't offended at first about the Knee post but the responses after I brought up that Knee Valgus is a thing are starting to get to me. Like ya'll really never heard of Knock Knees? Just go walk around in a large crowd and you'll see a small number of people like that, and they aren't doing it "to look cute".
Intent matters. People aren't laughing at or mocking people who have such characteristics IRL, they are criticizing the intent behind those kind of character designs because the intent is clearly to make women/girl characters to look cutesy/demure, as that's what they fetishize.
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
603
Intent matters. People aren't laughing at or mocking people who have such characteristics IRL, they are criticizing the intent behind those kind of character designs because the intent is clearly to make women/girl characters to look cutesy/demure, as that's what they fetishize.
Yeah. I said In my original reply that I get the animators aren't doing it to give representation, though frankly when I play the new pokemon I'll probably enjoy that the character stands like me, maybe I can make her look like an anime me with enough customization

A couple of the replies to that post have since gone from "animators are doing it because they think it looks cute/childlike" to "Girls/Women do it because it looks cute/childlike" and that's where I started to get offended.
 

Morrigan

Armoring
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
12,503
What is it with JRPGs and having their female characters stand with their feet and knees pointed inward in the most uncomfortable looking way possible? The FemC in Digimon Cyber Sleuth has posture so bad that it starts to look painful the longer you stare at in, and now I noticed that the new FemC in Sword and Shield is doing the same sort of pose with her legs as well.

Edit: Example



And while Pokemon is not as bad, it still makes me feel bad for all of the aching she's going to get in her joints. LOL
Google "pigeon toes anime" and you'll have plenty of answers.

It's a design trend from anime to make girls look passive, submissive, and "cute". It has nothing to do with representation of disabilities or anything like it.

Prefacing this with the fact that I've never played a Kojima game and don't plan to: I don't understand people who give Kojima's hideous misogyny a pass because he's a "genius". Like, everything I've heard about his games just makes him sound like a pretentious ass who's high on his own farts.
I have played many of his games and... nah, you're still right. Some of his earlier games are legit good in terms of gameplay (and some of its story ideas and characters), but overall he's a complete hack writer and "high on his own farts" is largely accurate.
 

Mib

Member
Nov 16, 2017
215
I wasn't offended at first about the Knee post but the responses after I brought up that Knee Valgus is a thing are starting to get to me. Like ya'll really never heard of Knock Knees? Just go walk around in a large crowd and you'll see a small number of people like that, and they aren't doing it "to look cute".
I don't mean to offend. I know it's real condition, but it's also something that's been fetishized in certain Japanese media and culture as being cute, innocent, lady-like etc, with the actual condition (and the damage of imitating it) largely ignored.

I can't speak for you as someone without Knee Valgus, but knowing that it's a real condition just makes me more frustrated when I do see it in japanese media.
 
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Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,586
On the plus side, next wave of Fire Emblem Three Houses DLC dropped and everything is still incredibly tame in outfit designs.
 

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
115
Yeah. I said In my original reply that I get the animators aren't doing it to give representation, though frankly when I play the new pokemon I'll probably enjoy that the character stands like me, maybe I can make her look like an anime me with enough customization

A couple of the replies to that post have since gone from "animators are doing it because they think it looks cute/childlike" to "Girls/Women do it because it looks cute/childlike" and that's where I started to get offended.
I didn't mean to offend you, just illustrating that's where this is coming from in these games. That there are girls who intentionally walk that way because their culture tells them it makes them look cute, and that Japanese game developers use that aspect of their culture in their game designs. There's nothing wrong with having that specific disability and not being able to help it, but I personally think it's unhealthy for someone to force themselves to walk that way on purpose, especially if they're younger and developing. It's as ridiculous to me as the women who do things to harm their bodies here in the West out of a sense of fashion and sexiness.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,796
Yeah, Kojima has some good ideas (especially when it comes to criticizing war, technology) and occasionally he even nails some of those (though mostly pre-MGS4 when there was presumably a certain influence in his games who exited the franchise at that point), but then the execution is generally more or less flawed and goes in totally insane tangents that kind of ruin whatever the good idea there was, originally. And then he slaps on totally unnecesary misogynistic & perverse stuff that does its best to undermine & objectify the female characters.

Yeah. I said In my original reply that I get the animators aren't doing it to give representation, though frankly when I play the new pokemon I'll probably enjoy that the character stands like me, maybe I can make her look like an anime me with enough customization

A couple of the replies to that post have since gone from "animators are doing it because they think it looks cute/childlike" to "Girls/Women do it because it looks cute/childlike" and that's where I started to get offended.
It is unfortunate that it has perhaps become so closely tied to the sexualized/misogynistic aspect (at least in Japanese media) that I can't ever see game developers just making this kind of character without the implicit intent to try to make girls/women look less threatening/more subservient and/or cutesy & demure in an attempt to fetishize and thus appeal to certain type of misogynist men who like their girls/women shy & cutesy, the like they think are adequately feminine because they don't talk back to a man and whom they want to protect or whatever.

I guess it's good if you can look past that and just enjoy feeling represented by games, no matter how skeevy & perverse the intent behind it all.
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
603
I didn't mean to offend you, just illustrating that's where this is coming from in these games. That there are girls who intentionally walk that way because their culture tells them it makes them look cute, and that Japanese game developers use that aspect of their culture in their game designs. There's nothing wrong with having that specific disability and not being able to help it, but I personally think it's unhealthy for someone to force themselves to walk that way on purpose, especially if they're younger and developing. It's as ridiculous to me as the women who do things to harm their bodies here in the West out of a sense of fashion and sexiness.
I agree that doing it intentionally is dumb (and probably harmful since your body hasn't developed in a way that makes that a natural stance) The video you linked was super weird though right? This guy filming a bunch of girls walking presumably without their knowledge. (Which is super creepy. I clicked around his channel and he has other videos too where he's just filming random people in public to talk about his subject for that video). He also provides no evidence or examples of any of his suppositions, like interview a woman who walks like that or something right.
I'm not saying there aren't any girls doing it deliberately, i'm sure there are people who do it deliberately, I'm not denying that. But I sure didn't like that video.

It is unfortunate that it has perhaps become so closely tied to the sexualized/misogynistic aspect (at least in Japanese media) that I can't ever see game developers just making this kind of character without the implicit intent to try to make girls/women look less threatening/more subservient and/or cutesy & demure in an attempt to fetishize and thus appeal to certain type of misogynist men who like their girls/women shy & cutesy, the like they think are adequately feminine because they don't talk back to a man and whom they want to protect or whatever.

I guess it's good if you can look past that and just enjoy feeling represented by games, no matter how skeevy & perverse the intent behind it all.
I get it with the Digimon screenshot, that was super over the top and looks fetishized, but do I really have to look at this:

And be thinking the dev is getting sweaty over how shy and subservient this girl looks, because her knees are pointed slightly in? When it doesn't look fetishized I'd rather just enjoy that she looks like me.
 
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Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,796
I agree that doing it intentionally is dumb (and probably harmful since your body hasn't developed in a way that makes that a natural stance) The video you linked was super weird though right? This guy filming a bunch of girls walking presumably without their knowledge. (Which is super creepy. I clicked around his channel and he has other videos too where he's just filming random people in public to talk about his subject for that video). He also provides no evidence or examples of any of his suppositions, like interview a woman who walks like that or something right.
I'm not saying there aren't any girls doing it deliberately, i'm sure there are people who do it deliberately, I'm not denying that. But I sure didn't like that video.



I get it with the Digimon screenshot, that was super over the top and looks fetishized, but do I really have to look at this:

And be thinking the dev is getting sweaty over how shy and subservient this girl looks, because her knees are pointed slightly in?
I guess that looks subtle enough that there's not much of a sexualized/objectifying aspect to it.
 

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
115
I agree that doing it intentionally is dumb (and probably harmful since your body hasn't developed in a way that makes that a natural stance) The video you linked was super weird though right? This guy filming a bunch of girls walking presumably without their knowledge. (Which is super creepy. I clicked around his channel and he has other videos too where he's just filming random people in public to talk about his subject for that video). He also provides no evidence or examples of any of his suppositions, like interview a woman who walks like that or something right.
I'm not saying there aren't any girls doing it deliberately, i'm sure there are people who do it deliberately, I'm not denying that. But I sure didn't like that video.



I get it with the Digimon screenshot, that was super over the top and looks fetishized, but do I really have to look at this:

And be thinking the dev is getting sweaty over how shy and subservient this girl looks, because her knees are pointed slightly in? When it doesn't look fetishized I'd rather just enjoy that she looks like me.
Well, I was in a rush and had just linked the first video that came up that seemed to show what I was talking about. Anyhow, I don't think devs are getting sweaty over these things, but doing them because it makes the characters look cute. And then you have young girls in Japan seeing these character designs and deciding to mimic them so they can look cute too, which ends up being a vicious cycle.

As for finding discussions from people who do walk that way, you probably won't find them in English. There are several threads on Reddit with foreigners who live in Japan who are aware of it happening, though. Apparently it's a dying trend, but if you can read Japanese, this is a post from someone questioning why less girls are walking that way these days, although it's kinda old and may not be relevant anymore.

 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,586
From the Japanese banning women from wearing glasses thread



The reasons for why women shouldn't wear glasses

1. Safety Hazard (because every woman with glasses is Velma apparently)
2. Can't see make up behind glasses (...ladies I'll let you rip into that one)
3. Gives cold impression (...wat)
4. Doesn't go with traditional clothing (...again wat).
 

RpgN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
516
The Netherlands
From the Japanese banning women from wearing glasses thread



The reasons for why women shouldn't wear glasses

1. Safety Hazard (because every woman with glasses is Velma apparently)
2. Can't see make up behind glasses (...ladies I'll let you rip into that one)
3. Gives cold impression (...wat)
4. Doesn't go with traditional clothing (...again wat).
Can you link me the thread?

Is this serious? In Japan as a whole?
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,586
Can you link me the thread?

Is this serious? In Japan as a whole?

Doesn't seem to be Japan as a whole thankfully.
 

RpgN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
516
The Netherlands

Doesn't seem to be Japan as a whole thankfully.
Thanks, I just went through the thread. Really bizarre thing to enforce. It would have been worse if this was seen as normal in Japan.
 

Aexact

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,498
On the plus side, next wave of Fire Emblem Three Houses DLC dropped and everything is still incredibly tame in outfit designs.
No lie, I was low key dreading the advent of the sauna and fetish outfit DLC as ammunition that even 3 Houses succeeds off the back of low hanging fanservice but seeing them in action, yeah. Pretty restrained. Well, they’re dramatic but not in a short skirt/thigh highs way.

They’re so restrained, I’m still baffled what value 3 Houses DLC if they weren’t going to do traditional fanservice. Jeritza is free, Anna doesn’t even have supports like her Awakening and Fates incarnations, petting dogs and cats? Some minor stat boosters and more Aux maps (reusing story maps). Basketball costumes and glasses. And now the sauna is like an extra activity and thankfully not creepy. But it feels underwhelming even by Fire Emblem DLC standards. ... maybe not Echos, I only bought the prologue DLC for that.

Guess I’m waiting for Wave 4.
 
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esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,746

Doesn't seem to be Japan as a whole thankfully.
Japan as a whole is a deeply sexist country though.


What's worse is that there's actual regression in the country right now, due mostly to draconian policies and a cultural push for women to perform extremely stratified roles in society. (This newest regressive push seems to start in roughly 2015, so it's a more recent development.)
 
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residentgrigo

Member
Oct 30, 2019
195
Germany
Now that we are doing this, The Global Gender Gap Report 2018:

I flipped through it yesterday when I posted it elsewhere. Japan is indeed No. 110 of 149. The bigger number is this though. Page 14:
Political empowerment: No. 125 of 149. China is at No. 78 and South Korea is at No. 98 to give a comparison. The core problem isn´t a problem of representation in media or a right to chose. It´s systemic political suppression from the top.

On the "pigeon toe" discussion: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/06/japan-women-high-heels-workplace-kutoo-campaign
And the root of the problem: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/05/high-heels-at-work-are-necessary-says-japan-labour-minister

The look is huge problem in anime and the other are "disappearing" noses. Noses just aren´t cute enough it seems. I blame it all on K-ON (directed by a woman) and Kyoto Animation. That said, the 90s Sailor Moon anime is an older culprit regarding leg injuries:
 
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Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,208
Every Death Stranding thread seen to be full of stupid. Any good reviews that don't bury the sexual violence many paragraphs in?
Unfortunately no reviewer is gonna spend a bunch of time in a review going over the sexualization aspects of the game. It's just the nature of game reviews. I've seen a few reviews briefly comment on it but most of them said the camera leering on the women is not as bad as MSGV's.

The best you can hope for is the upcoming articles specifically talking about it.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,957
Brazil
i saw this earlier today and it seems to be relevant, no idea how things are now, as this seems to be strictly about the 90s

japan hate stuff that is made in the west

How many japanese women characters were famous in the 90's by the time FF7 had just came out
"people asked me who samus was when smash 64 was released" said sakurai in the latest smash video.

It was basically chun li or mai
I doubt anyone even remembered Alis =P
 

NoirSuede

Member
Oct 25, 2017
295
The look is huge problem in anime and the other are "disappearing" noses. Noses just aren´t cute enough it seems. I blame it all on K-ON (directed by a woman) and Kyoto Animation. That said, the 90s Sailor Moon anime is an older culprit regarding leg injuries:
Nah the dissapearing nose is just the pinnacle of a gradual trend of putting less and less attention on noses ever since the 90s, usually done to save costs since most anime are produced on a tight budget
 

DragonSJG

Member
Mar 4, 2019
3,340
I was wondering, how does ERA overall feel about Persona 5? I see claims that this site is like anti-persona or fire emblem even, which I'm sure aren't valid
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,142
I was wondering, how does ERA overall feel about Persona 5? I see claims that this site is like anti-persona or fire emblem even, which I'm sure aren't valid
I'd say in general, people here like Persona 5. There's also a big Fire Emblem community here. Having just played the game for the first time in May, I would say it's one of my favorite gaming experiences this year despite having serious issues with the homophobic scenes. People on the internet assume that if you criticize something, that means you hate it which is not true. In fact, if people largely hated something they would just ignore and not even bother with discussion. But it's because we do like something, whether it's a particular game or gaming as whole, that we do spend the time to critique and discuss because he want to see these products become even better.