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Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
I agree it would be a shame if they changed her again after how much time it needed to nail her design (and with this I include the IMO outdated old design).
Yeah, it certainly took awhile to get here, don't know if it's a new artist at Eidos or an old one at Crystal Dynamics that just kept iterating but they've pretty much nailed it now, female anatomy perfection without pushing too far and her face is super pretty, and like you say she actually have muscles.

I honestly have no issues with the old design, but for that to work at this point, for example in a spin-off, they would need to change the whole visual style more in line with some old super hero comics, and the men need to look similarly over the top, beefy and V-shaped backs. Dagger of Xian tried to use the old design with realism and I don't think it works.
 

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,415
Beaumont, CA
Honestly a woman being in better shape than them probably intimidates them.
Likely part of it. I find musculature on women like the new Lara quite attractive myself. But you know subtly so. You have guys out there who are into bara or extreme musculature and then you have the masochistic "Step on me Queen!" types. It makes me sound like such a weirdo, but I appreciate characters more when they're not tryign so hard to be all bouncy bouncy in your face. But so many are just used to that and so many game companies feel too compelled to oblige.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
Likely part of it. I find musculature on women like the new Lara quite attractive myself. But you know subtly so. You have guys out there who are into bara or extreme musculature and then you have the masochistic "Step on me Queen!" types. It makes me sound like such a weirdo, but I appreciate characters more when they're not tryign so hard to be all bouncy bouncy in your face. But so many are just used to that and so many game companies feel too compelled to oblige.
I do find it weird how liking toned women seems to only exist in the extreme fetish realm, not that that's what you're getting at. Pretty much the current design for Lara makes it look like she lifts, but not like she's on Creatine about to weight train for a body building competition.
 
OP
OP
Persephone

Persephone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,435
I'm looking forward to trying the game (got it via Humble Bundle) after I whittle down my backlog. Weren't there a lot of people, even here on Era, calling her ugly because of the muscle? It's great!

I remember someone getting banned for saying she wasn't "feminine" enough. Someone asked him to clarify what he meant by "feminine" and that led down a fucking rabbit hole iirc
 

RedHoodedOwl

Member
Nov 3, 2017
14,245
Obama appearing in the manga was so bizarre.
The whole body switch mini plot got even weirder, from what a friend told me.



Didn't think the mangaka could top himself from his previous mangas, yet he broke those expectations. 😒
Another manga that had gross depictions of women involved a protagonist's teacher being raped for like 10 chapters. She was used solely to torture her student, who was a werewolf I think?
Just an awful manga.

Wolf Guy Wolfen Crest?
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
I remember someone getting banned for saying she wasn't "feminine" enough. Someone asked him to clarify what he meant by "feminine" and that led down a fucking rabbit hole iirc
I hate the gender role arguments. A guy knows about as much about femininity as he does about masculinity, which is absolutely nothing that he wasn't spoon fed for years by ill informed and out dated media. I also hate when women crave a "masculine" guy. You could ask them what "masculine" is and probably get the same dumb sexist shit.
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,860
There are so many things wrong with the character, Mari Tomita.

*googles character*

Not a capable fighter, can be air-headed, and has constant delusions (likely fantasies) of her being sexually assaulted rather than taking/managing situations properly.

*sees the images*

tenor.gif


Wolf Guy Wolfen Crest?

That's likely it.
 

Rae

Member
Mar 7, 2019
997
I have to say realistic clothing options for women is a huge selling point for in games. Like if I play the demo and everyone is wearing weird clothes OK but just the women? No.
 

Deleted member 32679

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
2,787
I have to say realistic clothing options for women is a huge selling point for in games. Like if I play the demo and everyone is wearing weird clothes OK but just the women? No.
That was MGS5 for me. Everyone is wearing semi realistic military gear and clothing and than you have Quiet with her tits and ass on full display. Her outfit looked like it was dropped in a blender. Thank god there's a fatigues option, although that doesn't stop the constant fanservice.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
That was MGS5 for me. Everyone is wearing semi realistic military gear and clothing and than you have Quiet with her tits and ass on full display. Her outfit looked like it was dropped in a blender. Thank god there's a fatigues option, although that doesn't stop the constant fanservice.

Say what you will about Quiet, her character design was prescient. Nowadays everyone's getting accused of being a Russian plant! *jazzhands*
 

caff!!!

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,031
I have to say realistic clothing options for women is a huge selling point for in games. Like if I play the demo and everyone is wearing weird clothes OK but just the women? No.
Yeah, I just want some pants for fighting the world eating evil, not "going wild with a lasso tool" holes in the clothing and calling it an outfit
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
Weeelp I guess I totally forgot about that thread because I took a look and I posted there already. But what a trip... Quite telling almost all people seems to be perma'ed.

Apart from the manly or fat comments, it's also weird how much the "looks generic" argument is thrown. Like, the biggest difference from Shadow Lara to Old is one wear cargo pants instead of shorts and that already makes it go from iconic to generic.

It's a thing that I already saw mentioned with RE3 remake Jill too.
 

Deleted member 82

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,626
Weeelp I guess I totally forgot about that thread because I took a look and I posted there already. But what a trip... Quite telling almost all people seems to be perma'ed.

Apart from the manly or fat comments, it's also weird how much the "looks generic" argument is thrown. Like, the biggest difference from Shadow Lara to Old is one wear cargo pants instead of shorts and that already makes it go from iconic to generic.

It's a thing that I already saw mentioned with RE3 remake Jill too.

It's especially weird when, really, you could say the same things about characters like, say, Nathan Drake, or many other protagonists in big-budget Western third-person action games. While modern Lara doesn't especially appeal to me, I fail to see how Nathan Drake is any better. He's a pretty formulaic Hollywood-style action hero. Yet I don't hear that many criticisms against him. By and large, he and his games are well-loved.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
The thing about Lara is that yes, she looks more "generic" than the old Lara but that's not cause of the change of outfit. All they would need is to make her more stylish compared to the normal everyday climber clothing new Lara wears.

I think if they merge some aspects of the original with the current one (as in you make Lara more stylish but without crossing over into the PS2 era reboot series Lara sexualization), you get a much more "iconic" Lara. Things like braids, the round red sun glasses, the dual pistols etc are much more iconic material. Then again, the current Tomb Raider games have a very bland style overall which reflects on Lara herself. Old games were more varied interms of colour palate and overall style.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,391
Jill's new look in REmake3

jill1ujth.png


42789f14f565121e166ebvcj5o.jpg


Her original look is a pre-order bonus like with Claire's. So they've done the same thing with her that they did with Claire in REmake2 by making her default outfit look like something you'd expect to see her in given the situation.
 
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SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,860
Even with the original game's flimsy excuse as to why Jill had the skirt and tube top, it still didn't make sense why she'd be dressed like that(beyond the obvious reasons).

Happy with her design update.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,809
Jill's new look in REmake3

jill1ujth.png


42789f14f565121e166ebvcj5o.jpg


Her original look is a pre-order bonus like with Claire's. So they've done the same thing with her that they did with Claire in REmake2 by making her default outfit look like something you'd expect to see her in given the situation.
I don't think claire was pre-order bonus I think you got it by beating the game.

That said new jill looks fucking sick
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,351
I don't have too much of a problem with the female predator. But at the same time, is giving boobs and curves to an alien the only way to show it's female?

Going to shamelessly share a Tweet I just posted after seeing that Predator design

"Make it thinner and slap boobs on it" is a trend that needs to end.
One example I can think of off the top of my head is the lizard race in Divinity 2. Females are actually taller than the males and feature a frilled flap on the head.

 
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SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,860
Would love to have the power that bans all character artists from drawing breasts on female aliens. They would be forced to come up with creative ways to go beyond this design fallback.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
Maybe those old Ken Penders Sonic comics polished my brain too smoothly but I always sort of associate them with echidnas, which are basically "mammals with huge caveats"
 

Mib

Member
Nov 16, 2017
654
I also don't see the issue eith thr female predators. Predators (male and female) are just humans with scales and weird heads. If they differed more from humans, or the males did and the female didn't, that would be different. But as is, they're just a couple degrees away from 'human but blue.'
 

Tunahead

Member
Oct 30, 2017
986
I'm pretty sure there was already sexual dimorphism in Predators in expanded universe materials previous to that ghastly design and it basically amounted to the female Predators being the same as male ones, but bigger. The absolute unit of a main Predator in the ghastly Alien vs Predator: Requiem is commonly believed to be female for this reason. I quite liked that, but I'm not the least bit surprised to see the No Boobs No Buy crowd ruined that too, like they ruin everything. Great.
 

Deleted member 18021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,000
The remake design for Jill is a clear improvement, honestly.

Jill's tube top thing would have been fine if they went with a "ugh, i was out clubbing and now there's a zombie apocalypse" type of deal, and had her grab a jacket or something at first opportunity, rather than like a single web belt.

Alas.


Either way, that's a lot better to my eye.
 

plagiarize

It's not a loop. It's a spiral.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,558
Cape Cod, MA
The remake design for Jill is a clear improvement, honestly.

Jill's tube top thing would have been fine if they went with a "ugh, i was out clubbing and now there's a zombie apocalypse" type of deal, and had her grab a jacket or something at first opportunity, rather than like a single web belt.

Alas.



Either way, that's a lot better to my eye.
Hah. Creature designer who has been designing canon predators recently said he wanted to design a female Predator in March of this year.

Alec Gillis said:
I know there are people like 'All you're going to do is stick boobs on a predator', well, I think there's something else you can do.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923
I assume it'll be about how she's "ugly". Goodness knows there's enough people who complain that Alloy's design harms their enjoyment of the game.
Still can't believe there were people that didn't like Aloy, she was great. Her and her marvelous harem of strong women. Even Sona was bad ass as fuck, she probably the strongest mother character in a game within the last ten years.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,923

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,591
I am perfectly fine with discussions about changes to character designs but they seem to happen far more often for female characters than male characters. I wonder why. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.........
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I am perfectly fine with discussions about changes to character designs but they seem to happen far more often for female characters than male characters. I wonder why. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.........

Indeed. RE fans have absolutely no ground to stand on with Jill, considering that Chris has looked literally like a completely different person every couple of games.

A core issue of RE in general is that its playable characters aren't well defined at all. Pretty much every one of them is "generically handsome person" with typically only their hair and clothes to tell them apart. I guess it's a problem that stems from Chris and Jill being originally represented as either low-poly PSX models or (pretty terrible) live-action actors; also probably why Claire and Leon are at least marginally less generic since they at least had CG models. Capcom should have sat down at some point redesigned them to be more unique and keep that design consistent, but instead they just keep redesigning away their already sparse distinguishing features. It feels as if there's just too many cooks in the kitchen for any one of them to nail down a "definitive" design for the characters that all other directors must follow.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,176
Indeed. RE fans have absolutely no ground to stand on with Jill, considering that Chris has looked literally like a completely different person every couple of games.

A core issue of RE in general is that its playable characters aren't well defined at all. Pretty much every one of them is "generically handsome person" with typically only their hair and clothes to tell them apart. I guess it's a problem that stems from Chris and Jill being originally represented as either low-poly PSX models or (pretty terrible) live-action actors; also probably why Claire and Leon are at least marginally less generic since they at least had CG models. Capcom should have sat down at some point redesigned them to be more unique and keep that design consistent, but instead they just keep redesigning away their already sparse distinguishing features. It feels as if there's just too many cooks in the kitchen for any one of them to nail down a "definitive" design for the characters that all other directors must follow.

Leon is the least generic looking RE character imo since they are consistent with the pretty boy haircut. That as well as being generally speaking, slender looking makes him stand out from most every other hypermasculine, muscular male shooter protag in the industry.

That said, Jill's RE1 design is probably the most iconic look any character has had in the series, especially since she's the most popular character to use in crossovers. Those shoulder pads and beret are unmistakable.
 
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