Yeah, even with that thumbnail they know what they're doing...
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)
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Yeah, even with that thumbnail they know what they're doing...
I remember when I went back to that game as an adult and noticed they also animated bouncing tits.I'm playing Sonic Adventure 2 right now and uh...
Jesus Christ Sonic Team.
She's a bat that wasn't necessary sonic team lol
Rouge is based on Doronjo and her expies from the Tatsunoko animated series they made during the 70s and whenabout.I'm playing Sonic Adventure 2 right now and uh...
Jesus Christ Sonic Team.
lets roll out some gems MSA is the horniest game I've seen promoted so often...everything is trash waifus, and the designs are just...
There is so many....SOOOO MANY
gonna quote my post in a similar thread from 2017
I hope people realize that the entire point of the the two METAL SLUG ATTACK game character designs in the OP is a mobile game that's entire purpose is to make new "Sexy" characters so they can sell more microtransactions to get the new sexy playable unit.
The only thought that went into designing those characters was just for "T&A" and really nothing more....
Like all of the designs besides the OG Metal Slug characters are basically....Throw some tits on it, and maybe show it wearing a thong or a short skirt/bikini....or make it a sexy monster.
for example. They're literally just the same body model with some slight alterations...look at the pose
I mean, im all for better representation....but dont expect it from a game where the entire selling point is "Stupid sexy girls with guns"
Good Lucifer, those designs. Mobile gaming may be the worst thing to happen to the industry.
Yeah, it certainly hasn't helped video games become better or more innovative. They're just digital slot machines.
Ehh there are some bright spots in mobile games. I'm actually playing them more than my other systems.
Currently having fun with FGO, Magia Record, and that new game Arknights. Arknights has some pretty great designs. My current fave is Earthspirit.
Currently having fun with FGO, Magia Record, and that new game Arknights. Arknights has some pretty great designs. My current fave is Earthspirit.
Lately I've been having a really hard time enjoying fantasy stories. Mostly games, but also big shows like Game of Thrones and most recently, The Witcher. It feels like over the past ten or so years the genre has started to get uncomfortably violent against women. Specifically in regards to themes like sexual assault and rape. I acknowledge that this subject is supposed to make the viewer/reader/player uncomfortable by design, but that's not really what I'm talking about.
It really feels like rape and sexual assault are used either as a way to prove a series or game is "mature" or "adult". Just as often it is used as way to provide a male character a chance to prove their virtue, they can be brooding and unpleasant, but if they kill a rapist they are a good person. I guess what I'm struggling to put into words, is that it kind of often feels like it is in service of a masculine power fantasy.
What really gets under my skin is that media, often just feel like they throw it in for shock value. The consequences of this kind of abuse are almost never really examined, and in games often completely ignored. It feels cheap and is increasingly making it impossible for me to enjoy modern fantasy. This issue isn't exclusive to fantasy stories, but i feel like it pops up more in that genre then some others.
The way it's used just feels gross to me. At best it is often used as a trauma to make a woman stronger. A badass woman warrior was once young and innocent until she or someone she knew was sexually assaulted and she had to harden herself. It's like the audience wouldn't just accept a woman as a fighter unless she was "broken" in some way. And this is the best case, more often it's just a tragic victim who is forgotten about as the game or series goes on.
I don't think I'm being oversensitive, and I don't think I'm seeing things that aren't there. It just feels like a trope that was taboo for a long time, and then people started getting edgy and threw it into their stories. But it doesn't feel like it is thrown in to sever any real purpose. It's just there to show that the world is dark, which just infuriates me.
I'm so sorry for this rant. If this post is inappropriate for this thread I will gladly delete it. It just feels like I'm realizing a genre I used to really enjoy has developed these really gross and unpleasant tendencies, and I can't really find a concrete reason why other then narrative laziness.
It really feels like rape and sexual assault are used either as a way to prove a series or game is "mature" or "adult". Just as often it is used as way to provide a male character a chance to prove their virtue, they can be brooding and unpleasant, but if they kill a rapist they are a good person. I guess what I'm struggling to put into words, is that it kind of often feels like it is in service of a masculine power fantasy.
What really gets under my skin is that media, often just feel like they throw it in for shock value. The consequences of this kind of abuse are almost never really examined, and in games often completely ignored. It feels cheap and is increasingly making it impossible for me to enjoy modern fantasy. This issue isn't exclusive to fantasy stories, but i feel like it pops up more in that genre then some others.
The way it's used just feels gross to me. At best it is often used as a trauma to make a woman stronger. A badass woman warrior was once young and innocent until she or someone she knew was sexually assaulted and she had to harden herself. It's like the audience wouldn't just accept a woman as a fighter unless she was "broken" in some way. And this is the best case, more often it's just a tragic victim who is forgotten about as the game or series goes on.
I don't think I'm being oversensitive, and I don't think I'm seeing things that aren't there. It just feels like a trope that was taboo for a long time, and then people started getting edgy and threw it into their stories. But it doesn't feel like it is thrown in to sever any real purpose. It's just there to show that the world is dark, which just infuriates me.
I'm so sorry for this rant. If this post is inappropriate for this thread I will gladly delete it. It just feels like I'm realizing a genre I used to really enjoy has developed these really gross and unpleasant tendencies, and I can't really find a concrete reason why other then narrative laziness.
Don't trash mobile cuz a fan favorite franchise got a waifu bait mobile game.
Play Cytus II.
Welcome to being "woke" - and trust me when I say that older stuff is even worse and more blatant about it, especially if you're into reading genre fiction (Fantasy and Science Fiction novels in particular, which are absolutely the foundation that gaming was initially built on). It really is true that when your eyes are open to sexism, racism, homophobia, ableism, etcetera, you see it everywhere. That's because it is everywhere. I really appreciate your post as it mirrors my own experience in being able to see this shit, and being aware of it can definitely lessen your enjoyment of entertainment. It has always been an element of gaming, but as things like graphics, sound design, and voice acting talent have outpaced the majority of the storytelling talent present in the industry and games are released more frequently it has gotten extremely disturbing to experience in games for obvious reasons.
One of my solutions has been vastly reducing amount the things I intake, but I have always enjoyed the less popular genres of games that more heavily target women as consumers so it is a bit easier for me to still have gaming as a major part of my life. Even going back to older media can hit pretty hard. I used to watch TV shows like Friends and Gilmore Girls with my partner and watching them through a more modern lens can be really off putting for both of us. Being more selective, turning things off and walking away to deal with the messages that media is sending, and enjoying things while being able to be critical of their awful elements helps me deal. Listening to and believing women and other disenfranchised people about their lived experiences has been huge for me, which is why I try not to post too much in this thread.
If you already have a therapist or a partner or friend to talk to, great! Volunteering, getting involved in organizations that fight the -isms, and donating can all help. Good luck.
I know there are good mobile games but look at all the gatcha/F2P/freemium games with very sexualized girls and women that make big bank. You even have traditionally more conservative companies like Nintendo chasing those dubious dollars.
You're not wrong for thinking that way. There are whole subgenres of fantasy that are an excuse for misogynistic tropes by having medieval settings for backwards reasoning. You know olden times, when women were obligated to marry and have as many kids.
Writers shouldn't be use to having a woman's first or only vulnerability be the threat to her sexuality. Yet these writers are probably male and these tropes are ingrained into their mindset.
Nintendo was never really shy about those fan service type of games. You'd see them pop up on their systems. Think people just kinda ignored it happening.
My favorite author used to be David Gemmell as a teenager. I re-read his books when I got a kindle after about 15 years of having not read them. I still enjoyed many battles, characters and set pieces but I got incredibly fed up of women being there solely to be killed or raped as motivation for the hero. Pretty much every book had that, it really soured my experience once I noticed it....
It's not just that, it's sheer volume. The ratio is quite absurd by comparison to more traditional games. Or at least, that's my general impression. I can't think of an analog to something like Fire Emblem Heroes or FGO in the more traditional game space (especially in terms of ROI). I understand that's why they're popular among developers, but I think it's part of why people are so leery of video games more generally now. Even if some games in some spaces have become less toxic, the overall trend, especially in mobile, seems like a race to the bottom.
I also think that's part of why games have become much more siloed, with the rise of Discord. There seems to be far less concern about those outside the in-groups. Games as a whole might be more diverse, but they're also becoming more and more insular, meaning the extremes are becoming that much more extreme (and a lot of that, I suspect, is linked to culture and politics).
Interesting, but in the old days instead od having a discord channed. You'd have entire forums, and smaller chat groups surrounding a particular game, so I'm not so sure about that aspect. Discord just provided a new medium for what was always done.
As for well mobile games making others leery of video games....I'm not so sure about that. Especially, when there are games for pretty much everyone out there. Unless you are talking about the predatory aspects involving money? Even then, it's something that has been seen in the traditional console scene. And will probably be seen until proper regulations are in place.
As for well mobile games making others leery of video games....I'm not so sure about that. Especially, when there are games for pretty much everyone out there. Unless you are talking about the predatory aspects involving money? Even then, it's something that has been seen in the traditional console scene. And will probably be seen until proper regulations are in place.
Well Nintendo doesn't have any north American development side for retro studios. I'm not surprised they Chase the sexy otaku dollars. That's always their problem. Aside from some core franchises Nintendo Japan gets some sleazy stuff and Nintendo America has to cut around it to make it seem "Nintendo". At least sony has applied their """"""""""''censorship""""""""""" at a global development level.
It's mostly until very recently (Late Wii/DS era ) that Nintendo put any real effort into genres where that stuff is king. A lot of the Wii/DS era was focused on the mainstays while Wii U/3DS/Switch has been about more niche games in volume and having mainstream success with them.
That said as someone who has issues with a few games here and there, censorship shouldn't be applauded.
What we need is variety. back in '99 when I was playing fighting games with my friend we realized that there were fat men, slim men, muscular men ultra muscular men, young men, old men etc..but when it comes to women all of them had the same voluptuous body type and the only difference was their height, boob, and tight size...
I mean, this topic is about sexualized character designs, not stuff like Nintendo of America removing and obscuring references to trans characters being trans.
Creative choices made to adopt to certain audiences are not censorship. The fact that it keeps being brought up as such just continues to repeat a deeply problematic cycle. Worse, it helps the more toxic elements lay claim to what they'll see as a legitimate complaint against any change to a video game.
User Banned (Permanent): Encouraging off-site harassment; prior bans for inflammatory behavior
Ummmm..... seems like we have jokesters around here.
MOD EDIT: offsite drama content removed
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i don't think it's censorship. i think it's localization and marketing.
I only put """"""""""""""""""""""""censorship""""""""""""""""""""""""""" because i believe this to be the only accurate way of using that word.
Just a reminder that Censorship has a very specific definition: the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security as decided and enforced by the government. Censorship is enforced by capital L Law. If the government is not involved it is not censorship. Games go through constant changes and decisions made in localization are simply a part of that committee process. If a game company decides to change any aspect of the game prior to release, that is either a creative choice or a decision to better fit the market they are selling their product in.
Let's stop misusing this word.
Let's stop misusing this word.
Great, good to know a fellow Resetera member is trying to incite harassment.
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B-b-but the Wikipedia article on censorship says that it applies to corporations too!
Even though that statement in the article lacks a source. Oops.
EDIT: This is Gale In Context's definition of censorship:
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That's just not true. Censorship does not have to be carried out by the government to be censorship.
A large creative project with multiple people working on it like most video games will go through many changes that not all those involved with it agree to.
If the studio orders a director to cut 30 minutes of a 4 hour film because they find it too long censorship?
If a game director tells an artist to increase the boob size of a petite female character so as to attract more otaku money censorship?
If the third season of a TV show, that ended on a cliffhanger, is cancelled because of poor ratings censorship?
In all these examples people were forced to make creative changes they did not want to do. But I wouldn't call that censorship. No outside force made them do anything.
Again, creative decisions in response to market demands are not censorship.
Turning originally normal female characters into slutty parodies of themselves so as to get the money of horny folks?
Not censorship.
Lengthening the skirt of a character so her undies don't show allowing the game can to be made more marketable to a wider audience?
CENSORSHIP!
Censorship is basically silencing somebody with force, either via threat of arrest, loss of job, loss of rights. None of this applies to changes companies choose to make to their own products. Corporations attempting to censor can be sued for violating the First Amendment. This applies to the government as well, but the courts can make varying interpretations of the FA which allow the government leeway to censor. See the Red Scare as an example. Basically, Censorship is illegal, unless the government decides to do it. Tossing the word censorship around inappropriately just gives cover to people who want to make disingenuous arguments and about SJWs having the ultimate power to take their smut away.
That makes sense, there is a difference between the two even if they're wrongly conflated. Doesn't really bother me either way.
There are some games (mostly loli stuff) that I side eye.
Mobile is a colossal platform. There's plenty of gems and good mobile games among the slog. I too have never cared for those waifu Gacha games but I don't think that's a reason to dismiss the entire platform.
I actually appreciate that mobile games with women protagonists such as monument valley and Florence have gotten so much popularity on the platform.
I'm more talking about the perception of the mobile platform rather than what's actually available on it. Any platform could have more or less good video games (and I do think it shifts over time), but I don't think public perception of mobile is particularly positive.
Pretty sure the general perception of mobile games outside of game forums are castle clashers, candy crushes, tsum tsums and similar products, the gacha waifu niche is pretty specific for people already initiated in gaming and anime
(Not really taking stances on this but just to keep in mind that mobile gaming still grabs most of the attention of elders therefore this forum's definition of mobile gaming can be different than the general audience's)
And a large segment is also women. Mobile gaming has allowed segments of the population that have been pushed out historically in traditional gaming an avenue in. That's actually partly why mobile gaming has a perception as not proper gaming. And I don't think mobile gaming has more anime titties than traditional console gaming either.
Regarding video games, they lack the subversiveness and abstraction of other art forms to be regarded as being subject to true censorship. Eg a video game portraying the Pope smashed under a meteorite,which was an exhibition that caused reactions some years ago.
Am not really referring specifically to gacha waifu though. It's part of it, but the part people notice are the stories about kids spending $3,000 of their parents money on rolls in a random gacha game, or people suing game companies for not revealing their drop rates. That's the sort of stuff that's seen by the wider public.
The, "is it gambling?" question in particular is one that's sparked a lot of debate.
I want to thank you for the advice. I'm sorry my earlier post sounded so melodramatic. The stuff I complain about really isn't anything new, the pattern just feels like it has become more and more apparent to me over the last few years. I also shouldn't ignore how some parts of genre/nerd culture are starting to improve. It feels like Tabletop games are starting to try and branch out to a more diverse audience. There are a fair number of podcasts and youtube shows that have pushed positive representation a lot more then most games and movies.
I really should take your advice to limit my consumption of media. There really is no good in playing/watching/reading content that will only depress or frustrate me. I truly want to hope that the rise of things like Gamer Gate, or Incels, is just the last gasp of an increasingly irrelevant culture. One that will eventually be replaced by new voices and perspectives. Fantasy can be a great genre, and I am sure there are tons of writers out there that don't reduce their female and minority cast to just victims and sexual objects. I really hope in the coming years it will be those works that are adapted into big budget franchises.
Here I am being melodramatic again. But I really do want to say thank you to all the people who post here. This thread has helped me a lot, even if I don't post in it often. Analyzing how we depict and treat gender in fiction is massively important, and too often people prefer to pretend there are no deeper meanings or impacts.
The Samurai Shodown S02 design of the women is bad to the point of parody but I also just found out that both are part of the Queen´s Blade universe. So I ain´t surprised. Lol. (They were technically in Samurai Shodown VI first but the series was a total wreck at that point.)
The rather cheap feeling and looking new game is ok btw. 6/10
The rather cheap feeling and looking new game is ok btw. 6/10
Well, if you're that interested, Luigi beat Nathan Drake to it.
Damn, you are right:
Luigi is the best Nintendo character of all time! 3D Street Fighters, some wrestling games, some MGS entries and some Batman games should have beaten Nintendo though for example. Believe it or not but I legit respect cape comics artists who go the extra mile with this stuff. Poor Batman: Damned No 1. Back to games.
One of her better episodes on this very topic, kinda:
It really took me till January 2016 to notice these "butt window" designs on men in games.
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