This season is really strong.
I never thought we'd get an anime adaptation of Karakuri Circus, much in the same way I never thought we'd get a faithful adaptation of Ushio and Tora.
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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This season is really strong.
I never thought we'd get an anime adaptation of Karakuri Circus, much in the same way I never thought we'd get a faithful adaptation of Ushio and Tora.
Yeah, some of the super popular stuff here in France such as Asterix and Lucky Luke don't really have parents (note they don't have kids either) except for maybe one specific issue where they'll likely be central to that issue's plot.
I'm not sure if "having parents" is really indicative of writing quality. As you said as long as you don't aim for some sort of "realism", it's just pure convenience. You just don't write characters that "should" exist but have little relevance to the plot.
So much this. God does that feel cheap every fucking time. Even some of the tamer stuff you can find suffers from this.
What about when the parent is a deadbeat asshole who abandons the child to go on an adventure?
Asterix and Lucky Luke are adults in adventure stories. The original sentiment is talking about Japanese high school protagonists in romcom/drama. A lot of the time, the absence of parents in those kind of stories really feels much too "convenient".
Asterix, Obelix, and Luck Luke may be past 18yo, but I would hardly call them "adults". Asterix and Obelix in particular very much behave like children. Sneaky children, but still.
Very interested in hearing about this.
Berserk get a tad suspect with how much it uses it's rape scenes and while you could argue some instances definately serve a narrative purpose, I don't feel like same is true for shit like troll dens.
Some might also argue that visual depictions themselves are tad overly erotic.
I don't think how they behave is really relevant. The point is they are not going through a performative stage of life with plot and drama revolving around adolescence that could really be enriched and/or contextualized by having or even acknowledging parental figures.
And the reason they did it was apparently because they felt it would be weird having a 30 year-old Rorona acting in her usual childish ways. Then just... don't...?
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Unfortunately much of that licensed stuff has moved to mobile with its ftp trappings, with a few stragglers on Nintendo platforms. All the 'babiez' and 'petz' abuse of typography makes me think I should have written 'stragglerz' though!
My daughter like dinosaurs. Why can't there be a 'dinosaurz' game, Monster Hunter Stories is still a bit complex for her :-)
I'm tempted to say "fair point", but most of the time teens in JRPGs don't actually revolve around what actual adolescence entails. I mean the "coming of age" archetypal shonen plot isn't really about adolescence, even though there are obvious metaphors about it.
You're right, but again, the original post was specifically talking about Japanese high school protagonists in romcom/drama, not JRPG teens.
None of them are good parents and the way the women are written are 99% of the time terrible, but it is interesting how Dragonball is the most popular anime out there and it revolves around parenthood and how parents are as growing influences.
Funny thing is that most western people see Goku as a really bad parent. Personally I agree with that sentiment.
On the other hand, in Japan Goku is considered a good dad.
Goku is in his 40s in Dragon Ball Super yet he continues acting like an idiot. So I don't see a reason to turn Rorona into a kid, especially after she had the same antics in Atelier Totori, and she was in her 20s in that game.
They could have made her appear late in the game or not at all, only mentioned. Better that than turning her into a kid. But we know the real reason Gust did that was because they didn't want to see Rorona in her 30s.
http://theconversation.com/as-japan...nge-single-women-are-in-the-firing-line-96636
It's just more ageism and sexism, which has become more and more common over time.
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That's just Toei destroying Goku's character. Adult Goku in the Manga was definitely not a bumbling idiot. Manga Goku is one of my favorite characters ever, Super Goku I find annoying.
I didn't mind Rorona in the third game. You already had more than enough straight characters and it's not like Totori was that young either. If Rorona had aged I don't think she would have looked that differently. Astrid and Esty didn't change that much since the first game. Same goes for Cordelia.
And you're right, she looks almost the same in one ending in Meruru Plus. So again, I don't see the reason to turn her into a kid.
Cordelia case also reminds me of Maho in Steins;Gate 0. In the bad future, she is exactly the same as when Okarin and the others met her. Same with Faris. The only ones who changed were Ruka and Daru.
When vegeta is a better parent than you, you are doing something wrong.
A series that an horrible rape commited to a previously strong woman literally strips her out of all the agency she had (literally) and turns her into just a non-character but simply a motivation for the male character.
It's trash IMO (as a dude), and this is without going into the troll shit.
Yeah as a dude, while I really dig the other aspects of Berserk, the way it constantly relays on rape for shock value and the clearly erotic way its depicted a lot of the time is gross as hell and undermines the meaning of the handful of times it was portrayed and used well (arguably only in Guts' case, which is nice as male rape is super rare in media but yeah).
I was curious, and read up to chapter 4 of Goblin Slayer, which already has a rape by goblins in the first chapter (and in the 4th chapter).
What a lovely series here that totally isn't being so EDGY and treating women badly.
What a lovely series here that totally isn't being so EDGY and treating women badly.
I am not actively reading Berserk at this time, but based on various comments it seems like the author has finally gone back to address that subject in a far more constructive way in recent chapters, giving some desperately needed attention to the victim's perspective and acknowledging the impact of such a horrible experience on her. He could still drop the ball after this, no doubt, but it sounds like things are looking up compared to the previous status quo.
It appears that Casca is getting her agency back, but unfortunately due to many hiatuses, it took 21 years
Is this the chapter where you have tortured
, taped women strapped to wood to be meat shields against the force?
At the very least Casca's mind was rescued by two women and not Guts.
It also appears she still isn't completely over the trauma, which is relatively good since the fallout of said event is no small matter. Her recovery should not be portrayed as too easy nor as a purely magical solution.
Berserk is one of my favourite stories ever told.
I have a lot of issues with its depiction of sexual violence and I honestly believe most of it is unnecessary. The series has proven more than plenty of times that it both can portray such topics with the depth and maturity that they need, and that it doesn't need that kind of shock value to live up to its reputation, so seeing it go back to that feels incredibly disappointing on top of edgy and lazy. That said, the story, characters, surprisingly wide array of themes, and art/visual design are among the best I've ever seen, and come together to form something much greater than the sum of its (still fantastic individually) parts.
On the other hand, Goblin Slayer is exactly the kind of gratuitous edgy dark fantasy garbage that's little more than pointless shock value and makes stuff like Berserk look worse by association.
This is actually the stuff I'm waiting for them to get back to. Seeing how Casca actually has to readjust to be mentally functional again should be interesting. She has friends, female friends that she's never really had before so seeing Farnese helping her should be pretty good.
And later on it promotes the fact that a character wasnt raped because Resurrection spells require you to sleep (not sexually (?) with a virgin
Yeah the "miracle" is that you have to "sleep naked next to a virgin and maybe it heals you if you don't end up having sex".
Man people get so mad when you mention that the rape in Goblin Slayer serves no purpose and that the cruelty of the gobbos could have just been portrayed by them hacking up that first part, or just having dead or barely alive chars show up if the author can't resists it. I've seen so many bad excuses for why the rape "has" to be there over the last few days.
You can have your mindless fantasy Goblin Punisher without the rape and it would be perfectly fine and not take away from how dark and edgy the world is.
I read the first chapter of the Goblin Slayer manga because I was expecting uhh...goblin slaying
I did not like what I got instead
I did not like what I got instead
I noticed that too. People get immediately defensive someone says that all the rape scenes aren't necessary and it's just immature and cheap.
Hell, I've seen Goblin Slayer fans get defensive over people saying that maybe a one-dimensional show about a one-dimensional character killing one-dimensional evil creatures isn't exactly the pinnacle of entertainment.
I am already finding quite a few comments like that, including some at people that dare call this series edgy.
Yeah screw that. I actually kind of got hooked on Goblin Slayer in some ways lol, and will probably look into it more, but edgy it is with problematic aspects to it.
Yeah screw that. I actually kind of got hooked on Goblin Slayer in some ways lol, and will probably look into it more, but edgy it is with problematic aspects to it.
Typical use of women as a set piece to motivate and empower men. Really nothing new sadly.
I think there can be value in shock, horror and cruelty, monstrosity of the enemy but this was just not a good handle of it. I always like to bring up how stressful and shocking some of the stuff in Attack on Titan is for instance. You can have a more mature, gritty scene without being overly gross about it but I guess some people are into this kind of stuff.
I think there can be value in shock, horror and cruelty, monstrosity of the enemy but this was just not a good handle of it. I always like to bring up how stressful and shocking some of the stuff in Attack on Titan is for instance. You can have a more mature, gritty scene without being overly gross about it but I guess some people are into this kind of stuff.
Because having actual humans doing the raping could be off putting to their demographic, and having monsters do it instead allows for endless hand waving. And like, don't bother mentioning the word "furry" in the context because that would otherwise give too much credit to a grimdark wank show
Just shows you how many men really, really love rape. As an idea, as a concept, and as something to consume.
Hence the defenses for these scenes are seen as neccessary by these dudes - they want to keep having such scenes, while pretending it's all just media and needed.
One in five women is raped by someone, and that someone is found among dudes like that - or they're the very ones protecting the one that did it. Culturally, we haven't really improved there at all. Just look at the backlash against metoo. Media like goblin slayer puts this into a sharp focus, because it pulls away the mask of such people without them even noticing.
There's a good amount of this on mobile devices. Just have to watch out for the stuff with IAPs - don't get the app if it has *any*.
"Just shows you how many men really, really love murder. As an idea, as a concept, and as something to consume."
The rest of your post is on point. Rape is a rampant issue within our societies. But you can't point on media showing awful fictional crimes and people cheering on it, and then simply draw a line straight to real life implications. I'm pretty sure we see a whole lot more murder than rape in media (hell, most VGs are pretty much based on murdering as much as you can), yet they're nowhere near as frequent IRL than rape.
Rape is a major issue but I really doubt such dubious media play that much of a role in it. I'm pretty sure it has more to do with gendered roles and how women are supposedly put there by god to serve men and other shit like that than some stupid ass wank show for ill-minded people. Rape is not usually committed by ill-minded people.
Hmm. No, I don't agree.
Murder is largely seen as a problem. Rape is not. In the US, for example, we see political candidates that entertain the idea of the death penality used for women that have an abortion, and at the same time think laws against sexual assault are too harsh, and major politicans openly mock rape victims in public. Even now, a woman that speaks up about being assaulted faces harsher consequences than the assaulter. Take several of the public figures who even admitted to doing it: Several are making comebacks after less than a year, with people cheering for that, while the victims get blacklisted. Goes for male victims too, by the way (as men can get raped too - you just don't see it glorified as often as the rape of women is).
I'm sorry, but as a culture, the difference between murder and rape couldn't be bigger.
...and the idea that murder in games is fine is something I wouldn't even agree with. I'd in fact argue that a lot of games contribute to attitudes that murder of some people isn't a problem (especially of non-white people!), much like the TV series "24" contributed to torture being more acceptable in the US (down to politicans using 24 as an argument to defend torture). Media doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's a reflection of culture.
And lets be frank: I don't think it's mean to think badly of people that want sexualized rape depictions in media. There's one thing to have it as a plot element, and another to use it to titilate.
I think there's also a difference in that some depictions of rape, in addition to being meant to be erotic or visually appealing for the audience, also eventually show the victim (on some level) enjoying it, which then links to real life accusations that a woman that isn't covered in blood and bruises wasn't raped because she didn't fight back hard enough. It's incredibly rare to show a murder victim enjoying being murdered, even if the illustration of such violence is shot in an appealing a way as possible- the erotica is for the viewer and perhaps the killer, not the victim. That's what makes people question the viewpoint of the creatives behind it- the erotica of violence doesn't come with the occassional sense that the creator thinks it's erotic for the victim too.
Fantasies of revenge or power are one thing, but showing the victim being overpowered and then starting to like it is what then adds an additional creepy justification (that is often joked about by abusers) to rape on top of the power fantasy that is also present in violence. I'm not saying that's present in the manga under discussion here (I haven't read it) but it's the difference between some segments of rape vs murder in terms of message to the (often presumed male) viewer and implied view of what the creator is thinking, or at least why people look at it differently.
You've also got the societal sense (at least in terms of fiction) that being a sanctioned killer (for whatever perceived-morally-correct reason) means killing is perfectly fine. If a knight/gunman/ronin/adventurer etc is killing bandits/mutants/monsters because they keep killing peasants in a world with zero enshrined courts of justice, for the most part, people are on board with that kind of frontier justice and can get behind the art of their skill at despatching the 'baddies'. There's no scenario where admiration at the skill or erotica of rape works on the same level of (however misplaced or assumed sanctioned) justification.
I mean, I think violence in games is something I think we do need to look at as the immersion and visual fidelity continues to evolve, but I don't see the comparison to rape in this case.
When we talk about violence in media, we are usually talking about characters on screen/page for a few seconds and dead moments later as cannon fodder, and there's a discussion to be had about the consideration of people as such, but it's very different to protracted periods of abuse. Perhaps a closer comparison would be someone trying to make domestic abuse as appealing and visually exciting as a thousand stories, films and games about being a soldier killing greater numbers of less skilled enemy soldiers, something that just sounds so very, very wrong, but for some reason the fascination with rape-as-erotic-entertainment continues.
On a related note, I thought Quiet's torture scene in MGV was rubbish, in that the scene can be summed up as the creator's idea of 'what a great pair of tits being zapped'. Her face covered because, of course, neither the director or the viewer wants to look at the only signifier that the woman isn't enjoying being naked, tied up and tortured while being ogled by the camera. If the plot required it to be a bloke getting zapped, somehow I get the feeling it wouldn't be shot as 'how weirdly sexy is this!'.
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I'm sorry. I just can't agree with that. Rape is deemed illegal. Rape is usually frowned upon in most circles.
I could agree that it may not be seen as the society wide problem it actually is. But you can at least in theory go to jail for raping someone. Having some shit politicians and other people deflecting on a regular basis does not in any way mean that it's not perceived as a problem. Having a hard time convicting rapists only means our justice systems is skewed and is not there to apply actual justice but social oppression. Just look at how in most societies the prison population is hardly representative of the country population (lots of blacks in US prisons anyone?).
Murder is definitely used to "titillate" in many, many ways, just not usually in a "sexual" way. But I'd argue that it's tied to the nature of the criminal act.
I'm sorry I can't spend more time answering now, but while I tend to see the point raised when talking about "rape culture", I think it often fails to see how it just basically ties to the basic inequalities between men/women. Rape is not as widely seen as a huge problem because in pretty much all cases women are the victims. If we stop treating women like shit, that problem will largely go away, I'm 100% convinced of that.
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