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Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,308
I'm pretty sure this thread is bumped for that exact purpose.
No, people don't bump it to get people banned. The thread gets bumped because people have things to talk about and it continues to be a relevant topic. This is borderline conspiratorial thinking.

I guess it's a decent litmus test for a forum that wants a particular mindset in its users. [...] I can understand a few different views on this topic that have been presented here.
Not-so-subtle accusation of an echo chamber, somehow followed by an admission that multiple views have been discussed... well then.

Though, I wouldn't say every user who has a differing opinions is a dickhead. And I can see some serious dude-bros making men look terrible with their ignorance. In the end they all get banned anyway. I just come in here to enjoy a good read, a good laugh, and keep my opinions to myself :)
Uh-huh. Maybe lay off the smug superiority complex next time you want to participate in this thread.

The perils of this industry. Another thread brought this up again, so...what are everyone's thoughts on Shanoa?

latest


Keep in mind that...
-Yep, thighboots, because of course
-She's also fully bareback, because she breath errr - absorbs enemy magic through a rune on her back ( https://www.squarepalace.com/sites/...x675/public/tests/6312/6312.jpg?itok=AOHLLJi5 )

Is this terrible design? Is this a bad "sexy because woman" design? Is this a good "sexy" design? Is it neither?

She keeps making me think conflicting things. What do y'all think?
I'm not a fan of the heels or the bare back (just, why...), but overall it's a decent design, because she at least looks cool and stylish, rather than stupid and insulting. Like others have said, there's an elegance and grace to that design that you don't usually find anymore.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Shanoa is the kind of design that looks quite cool to me at first glance, but once you start to dissect it you start to notice the questionable elements. Like I always found the bare back + absorbing mechanic cringey, but I rarely think about stuff like the thighboots.

I guess the elegant art styles helps the design seem a lot more dignified too.

Yeah artstyle definitely is helping me overlook parts of it. Like let's take a look at Charlotte, the sister half of the brother-sister team of Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin.

latest


Like, she's more more or less similarly dressed compared to Shaona but that thigh gap is so common in anime that this is annoying me more than Shanoa despite Charlotte showing far less skin.

Also, it's not like the Castlevania are free from this in any case, as both games have their share of scantily clad lady enemies, including fully naked women that are only fine because the sprites aren't detailing private parts. Also, weirdly Shaona is the only woman protag in castlevania where the voice clips imply the lady enemies are sexually attracted to Shaona while Charlotte gets more antagonistic responses. So Shaona definitely was made with her "beauty" in mind from the start given how much of it is reinforced in the game.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I think the artstyle goes a long way in making me more forgiving of the more sexualized aspects of her design. The back is the worst part given that numerous moves will showcase it including the rune absorption. I guess because it isn't as "in your face" as showing visible cleavage or leaning around for panty shots.

...which is more a problem with games in general when I'm happy the male gaze is only centered on her back rather than the normal parts.

Shanoa is the kind of design that looks quite cool to me at first glance, but once you start to dissect it you start to notice the questionable elements. Like I always found the bare back + absorbing mechanic cringey, but I rarely think about stuff like the thighboots.

I guess the elegant art styles helps the design seem a lot more dignified too.
I'm not a fan of the heels or the bare back (just, why...), but overall it's a decent design, because she at least looks cool and stylish, rather than stupid and insulting. Like others have said, there's an elegance and grace to that design that you don't usually find anymore.
Yeah, I think I'm on the same page with you all here, there's a gothic elegance to the art style that goes well with (most of) the outfit. Interesting pick to discuss though Machachan
 
Last edited:

kaytee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
440
USA

What an absolutely stunning post. The first half made me think of the great article The Male Glance by Lili Loofbourow, which I think a lot of people in this thread would enjoy.

Side note, as she was brought up, Tharja makes me sad. I think she's a genuinely interesting character, and the fact several of my girl friends have huge crushes on her confirms that to me, but her design sort of waters that down as it really has nothing to do with her characterization of being a reclusive, grumpy sorceress. FEH and merch further sexualizing her and making her even more Robin-centric doesn't help either.

I didn't realize the entire time I played Awakening that her clothes were sheer... I just thought it was a normal shirt/dress. I liked her because, like you said, she was this grumpy, misanthropic character, and that was fun.

A reclusive, grumpy sorcerer...who has a creepy obsession with the player avatar that ultimately consumes her entire character, iirc.

Is this still true when you play as the female avatar? I don't remember it at all, and I'm questioning how much I actually maxed out her rank with other characters. I used her a ton, so you'd think I would've...
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,427
The perils of this industry. Another thread brought this up again, so...what are everyone's thoughts on Shanoa?

latest


Keep in mind that...
-Yep, thighboots, because of course
-She's also fully bareback, because she breath errr - absorbs enemy magic through a rune on her back ( https://www.squarepalace.com/sites/...x675/public/tests/6312/6312.jpg?itok=AOHLLJi5 )

Is this terrible design? Is this a bad "sexy because woman" design? Is this a good "sexy" design? Is it neither?

She keeps making me think conflicting things. What do y'all think?
Like most female designs, it looks great for a night on the town but, as a combat vehicle, is completely inept.

It looks nice, very egalitarian, but the fact that she's wearing an outfit that exposes more than half her body on a vampire hunt is dumb.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
Yeah artstyle definitely is helping me overlook parts of it. Like let's take a look at Charlotte, the sister half of the brother-sister team of Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin.

latest


Like, she's more more or less similarly dressed compared to Shaona but that thigh gap is so common in anime that this is annoying me more than Shanoa despite Charlotte showing far less skin.

Also, it's not like the Castlevania are free from this in any case, as both games have their share of scantily clad lady enemies, including fully naked women that are only fine because the sprites aren't detailing private parts. Also, weirdly Shaona is the only woman protag in castlevania where the voice clips imply the lady enemies are sexually attracted to Shaona while Charlotte gets more antagonistic responses. So Shaona definitely was made with her "beauty" in mind from the start given how much of it is reinforced in the game.

Yeah when you look at this, Shanoa design looks way better lol. Her thighboots are bad, but far from this zentaiwhatevershit that plagues every damn design. Her outfit also looks both more stylish yet serious than this schoolgirl crap.

The bareback is whatever, more ridiculous than another thing IMO especially with the gameplay mechanic involved, so unnecesary. Honestly I find the cut skirt the worst part by far, as Redcrayon said it's the old tired "cut part so you can permanently see her thigh". It feels like devs/artists said "oh shit!, she doesn't show any skin when playing, we need to fix that" and decided to do the cut.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,254
Compare and contrast with Order of Ecclessia's other playable character, Balthier With Normal Pants Albus.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
What an absolutely stunning post. The first half made me think of the great article The Male Glance by Lili Loofbourow, which I think a lot of people in this thread would enjoy.



I didn't realize the entire time I played Awakening that her clothes were sheer... I just thought it was a normal shirt/dress. I liked her because, like you said, she was this grumpy, misanthropic character, and that was fun.



Is this still true when you play as the female avatar? I don't remember it at all, and I'm questioning how much I actually maxed out her rank with other characters. I used her a ton, so you'd think I would've...

Yes, Tharja is attracted to both female and male Robbin. It's just in Awakening you cannot marry Tharja if you're playing as female Robin. This was rectified in Fates where her spirit is reincarnated as Rahajat and she can marry female Corrin.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,308
Shanoa IMO is a good example of a style-over-practicality design that still manages to at least retain a strong sense of aesthetic. I don't mind some liberties being taken for a design to look "cool"; but a woman fighting monsters in a battle thong is the anti-thesis of that.

And you know how some will say "yes bikini chain mail isn't realistic but who cares it's fantasy, giant spiked pauldrons aren't realistic either" as a defense. Which I always found trite because the argument isn't, strictly speaking, about realism, but more about intent, cohesiveness and internal consistency. Guys get giant spiked pauldrons to denote strength and power and even if they are cartoony or goofy or not realistic, they are still associated with "big armour = protection = a strong warrior"; women get chain mail bikinis for sex appeal, not to show they are powerful warriors. "It's fantasy" is not a defense for "anything goes". We criticize stupid designs like that infamous FFTA2 pizza cutter sword (and equally ridiculous outfit), not because "it's not realistic", but because it's so damn stupid and ridiculous-looking.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
I do think the artstyle plays a long way in getting me to accept the design because her artwork in Harmony is...yikes, despite it being the same outfit.

latest


Back is now curved, slight cut in knee is now false Zetti-blahblah, Light hint at the other leg. Accented curves. Boobs and butt pose. Goes to show how important artstyle is given this now looks like a mess.
 

RpgN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,552
The Netherlands
The perils of this industry. Another thread brought this up again, so...what are everyone's thoughts on Shanoa?

latest


Keep in mind that...
-Yep, thighboots, because of course
-She's also fully bareback, because she breath errr - absorbs enemy magic through a rune on her back ( https://www.squarepalace.com/sites/...x675/public/tests/6312/6312.jpg?itok=AOHLLJi5 )

Is this terrible design? Is this a bad "sexy because woman" design? Is this a good "sexy" design? Is it neither?

She keeps making me think conflicting things. What do y'all think?

Spoken as someone who still needs to play the game, the design looks gorgeous. I don't mind the boots or that her outfit is not fitting for the job, the fact that it looks elegant enough and nothing like the designs we're currently getting from other games is enough.
 

Booga

Alt account
Banned
Sep 15, 2018
937
No, people don't bump it to get people banned. The thread gets bumped because people have things to talk about and it continues to be a relevant topic. This is borderline conspiratorial thinking.


Not-so-subtle accusation of an echo chamber, somehow followed by an admission that multiple views have been discussed... well then.


Uh-huh. Maybe lay off the smug superiority complex next time you want to participate in this thread.


I'm not a fan of the heels or the bare back (just, why...), but overall it's a decent design, because she at least looks cool and stylish, rather than stupid and insulting. Like others have said, there's an elegance and grace to that design that you don't usually find anymore.
Smug what? You are incredibly aggressive and are making a spiffy amount of assumptions. This is why I stay away from threads like this. People just looking for a fight. Sorry you'll have to duke it out with someone else. Thanks for your input though.
 

kaytee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
440
USA
Yes, Tharja is attracted to both female and male Robbin. It's just in Awakening you cannot marry Tharja if you're playing as female Robin. This was rectified in Fates where her spirit is reincarnated as Rahajat and she can marry female Corrin.

Wow, really? I don't know if I just blocked it out or what... That's so obnoxious.

I do think the artstyle plays a long way in getting me to accept the design because her artwork in Harmony is...yikes, despite it being the same outfit.

latest


Back is now curved, slight cut in knee is now false Zetti-blahblah, Light hint at the other leg. Accented curves. Boobs and butt pose. Goes to show how important artstyle is given this now looks like a mess.

Yep, that's bad. I think it's a good example of how posing makes an enormous difference, because the other art is miles better than this.
 

Deleted member 18021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,000
I tend to give Shanoa a pass. I don't care for the back or the boots, but it's overall functional enough that I don't mind them too much. The art style does help, yeah.

And, well, it was kinda nice to finally have the main character be a woman for the first time since Sonia. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

dgIZgpA.gif


sure don't miss the days when practically every female character wore a leotard tho
 

thevid

Puzzle Master
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,305
The perils of this industry. Another thread brought this up again, so...what are everyone's thoughts on Shanoa?

latest


Keep in mind that...
-Yep, thighboots, because of course
-She's also fully bareback, because she breath errr - absorbs enemy magic through a rune on her back ( https://www.squarepalace.com/sites/...x675/public/tests/6312/6312.jpg?itok=AOHLLJi5 )

Is this terrible design? Is this a bad "sexy because woman" design? Is this a good "sexy" design? Is it neither?

She keeps making me think conflicting things. What do y'all think?

The more I think about it, the more I hate it. Looking at her back, it looks like the rune ends well before the dress starts. It also seems like the entire dress hangs off her neck with nothing really supporting it from the waist, seeing how loosely it hangs off her and barely covers her butt. But I'm a guy, and don't know about dresses to say how it would actually work. There are no shoulder straps or anything else that would provide support as far as I can tell though. It's like her whole outfit, armor plate included, is held up by her neck strap.

The design reminds me a little of Yoruichi from Bleach who has that special move that exposes her back. I think that design is more sexualized with exposed side boobs, but she also wears pants, so the outfit ends up looking more practical.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
I tend to give Shanoa a pass. I don't care for the back or the boots, but it's overall functional enough that I don't mind them too much. The art style does help, yeah.

And, well, it was kinda nice to finally have the main character be a woman for the first time since Sonia. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

dgIZgpA.gif


sure don't miss the days when practically every female character wore a leotard tho

I hate the fact that she's now non-canon with that bullshit reasoning that the first Belmont hero needs to be a man.

Wow, really? I don't know if I just blocked it out or what... That's so obnoxious.



Yep, that's bad. I think it's a good example of how posing makes an enormous difference, because the other art is miles better than this.

Yep, pose matter a lot in sexualization, especially in fictional media. How something is shot is all the difference in the world.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,308
Smug what? You are incredibly aggressive and are making a spiffy amount of assumptions. This is why I stay away from threads like this. People just looking for a fight. Sorry you'll have to duke it out with someone else. Thanks for your input though.
You came into this thread to say that:
- people bump this thread with the deliberate purpose of luring bans (an unsubstantiated and inflammatory accusation);
- this thread fosters "a forum that wants a particular mindset in its users";
- you are here to "enjoy laughs" yet will never state your actual opinion on the subject.

This is, indeed, a smug attitude, and not based on assumptions but specifically on what you wrote. I am not picking a fight; I am urging you to revisit your posting style in the future, because of how you came across. If you are interested in participating in discussion, please do so, but leave out the meta-commentary.
 

RpgN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,552
The Netherlands
I do think the artstyle plays a long way in getting me to accept the design because her artwork in Harmony is...yikes, despite it being the same outfit.

latest


Back is now curved, slight cut in knee is now false Zetti-blahblah, Light hint at the other leg. Accented curves. Boobs and butt pose. Goes to show how important artstyle is given this now looks like a mess.

That does make it look worse. I'm less positive with the pose but it's still better compared to other designs we're getting lately :/
 

Deleted member 18021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,000
I think Shanoa's design is the one I hate the least in Judgement, but that's saying very little, lol.
Still won't forgive them for what they did to Sypha.

Yeah, it was kinda the Zettai Ryouiki of the late 80's/early 90's.

Really sucks that it's basically a coin flip if Celes will have her dumb green leotard or her Amano design, on the chance that Square remembers she exists.

I hate the fact that she's now non-canon with that bullshit reasoning that the first Belmont hero needs to be a man.

I guess Iga has gotten better over the years, but yeeeah.
Then again, I remember playing the Bloodstained demo, and fighting a giant sea monster with huge breasts that were her weak point.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
The thing about Shanoa and the art style is that her face is the opposite of the animu saucer eyes doll face thing that a lot of games have going. Her face is serious, severe even, with eyes that are almost a slit. This makes the more questionable parts of her design more easily accepted.

Here's a quick and dirty edit with a standard anime face to compare and contrast.
RFLL5Fc.png


and keep my opinions to myself :)

And you had such a good run at it, too. :D
 
Oct 13, 2018
130
I do think the artstyle plays a long way in getting me to accept the design because her artwork in Harmony is...yikes, despite it being the same outfit.

latest


Back is now curved, slight cut in knee is now false Zetti-blahblah, Light hint at the other leg. Accented curves. Boobs and butt pose. Goes to show how important artstyle is given this now looks like a mess.

Castlevania%2B-%2BOrder%2Bof%2BEcclesia%2B-%2BPTBR.jpg

I admittedly like her design but it's exploitative any way you cut it. Just look at the official NA box art. The way she's angled makes it look as though she's completely undressed above the waist. Albus on the other hand screams functionality: leather boots, breastplate, gloves, and a holster for his pistol.

There is something of a disconnect between promotional artwork and her portrayal in game which is more muted, but the intentions behind her design seem rather apparent to me.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,404
The English Wilderness
The thing about Shanoa and the art style is that her face is the opposite of the animu saucer eyes doll face thing that a lot of games have going. Her face is serious, severe even, with eyes that are almost a slit. This makes the more questionable parts of her design more easily accepted.

Here's a quick and dirty edit with a standard anime face to compare and contrast.
RFLL5Fc.png




And you had such a good run at it, too. :D
It's more than just the eyes, it's her overall proportions. At a glance, she looks about eight heads tall. Anime, in general, tends to limit women to six, at most...
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
I think Shanoa's design is the one I hate the least in Judgement, but that's saying very little, lol.
Still won't forgive them for what they did to Sypha.



Really sucks that it's basically a coin flip if Celes will have her dumb green leotard or her Amano design, on the chance that Square remembers she exists.



I guess Iga has gotten better over the years, but yeeeah.
Then again, I remember playing the Bloodstained demo, and fighting a giant sea monster with huge breasts that were her weak point.

Marina is kind of worse in Judgement, given her entire story revolves around her being jealous of other character's breasts.
 

Sev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
422
The perils of this industry. Another thread brought this up again, so...what are everyone's thoughts on Shanoa?

latest


Keep in mind that...
-Yep, thighboots, because of course
-She's also fully bareback, because she breath errr - absorbs enemy magic through a rune on her back ( https://www.squarepalace.com/sites/...x675/public/tests/6312/6312.jpg?itok=AOHLLJi5 )

Is this terrible design? Is this a bad "sexy because woman" design? Is this a good "sexy" design? Is it neither?

She keeps making me think conflicting things. What do y'all think?

Shanoa's design is great imo. I don't mind the thigh boots or the bareback clothing because it looks aesthetically pleasing and it doesn't take away from Shanoa's personality while looking stylish instead of gratuitous.

Honestly, I dislike chainmail bikinis and male gaze-y designs as much as most, but practical/realistic designs end up looking boring to no end to me. I much prefer designs that look fashionable and stylish while remaining in-character over any design that looks more practical but doesn't have as much personality or style. Give me more Bloodborne/Monster Hunter/FFXIV-style fashion over any kind of armour period.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
Shanoa's design is great imo. I don't mind the thigh boots or the bareback clothing because it looks aesthetically pleasing and it doesn't take away from Shanoa's personality while looking stylish instead of gratuitous.

Honestly, I dislike chainmail bikinis and male gaze-y designs as much as most, but practical/realistic designs end up looking boring to no end to me. I much prefer designs that look fashionable and stylish while remaining in-character over any design that looks more practical but doesn't have as much personality or style. Give me more Bloodborne/Monster Hunter/FFXIV-style fashion over any kind of armour period.
Her back could be covered and she could be wearing pants underneath what she's currently wearing and her look wouldn't really change for the worse. Her clothes would still have a stylized look without dumb sexualized aspects that make less sense in the context of her going on a quest of killing monsters.
 

Sev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
422
Her back could be covered and she could be wearing pants underneath what she's currently wearing and her look wouldn't really change for the worse. Her clothes would still have a stylized look without dumb sexualized aspects that make less sense in the context of her going on a quest of killing monsters.

I don't think having her back covered and wearing something other than thigh boots would change a thing at all, though. Her design could be better, but as it is now it's not necessarily sexualised or unbefitting of a combat situation.
 

Booga

Alt account
Banned
Sep 15, 2018
937
You came into this thread to say that:
- people bump this thread with the deliberate purpose of luring bans (an unsubstantiated and inflammatory accusation);
- this thread fosters "a forum that wants a particular mindset in its users";
- you are here to "enjoy laughs" yet will never state your actual opinion on the subject.

This is, indeed, a smug attitude, and not based on assumptions but specifically on what you wrote. I am not picking a fight; I am urging you to revisit your posting style in the future, because of how you came across. If you are interested in participating in discussion, please do so, but leave out the meta-commentary.
Ok lets get my stance clear. I actually read this thread all the way through. And the number of banned users is staggering. This is certainly substantiated.

Resetera definitely has a zero tolerance for sexism or other close minded behavior, often resulting in insta-bans, Again, one needs look no further than this thread to see literally, dozens of examples of this. So again, this forum very much does want to weed out certain behaviors and types. This is plainly obvious.

Me keeping "my opinions to myself" is because though I feel my ideas and opinions er on the side of progressive intersectional feminism, I feel that a gaming forum isn't the place to air them. Or at least not a place to confront people with my opinions.

The "here for laughs", I am referring to the sexist, or otherwise bigoted people who come in here, try to start a fight by disagreeing with everyone about their views on this particular topic and then getting banned.

I am not disagreeing with anyone, you ARE being very presumptuous about my intention, and not respecting my right to keep my opinions to myself by threatening that not revisiting my "posting style" could result in something negative. And you are name calling, as none of what I said was intended to be smug, or even remotely like it. your response is the type I would expect from my boyfriend misunderstanding my tone in a text. And assuming it is a negative when in fact, it is lighthearted and positive.

My commentary was a direct response to another user's observation of a pattern that is very much reflected in this thread, both the first and second version, both of which I have read in their entirety. My comment was not meant to be an accusation, so much as a "ha, it certainly seems this thread very much serves this purpose" whether intentional or not, that is regularly occurring here.

my observation is substantiated, easily, and in no way a criticism. That is what i was referring to "laughing at". if some fool wants to go off on a sexist rant, I say they deserve what they get.

I won't be bullied by you just because you are a mod. And I do not want to continue to argue over my meaning. please don't put words in my mouth, or assume my intent. I was intentionally vague to AVOID a fight, and that vagueness instead earned me one. That is unfortunate.

Please accept my apology for not being more clear in my meaning. and please allow this exchange to end here.
 

Deleted member 41271

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 21, 2018
2,258
Like most female designs, it looks great for a night on the town but, as a combat vehicle, is completely inept.

Absolutely true. The conflict I have is that, were I do design a pen&paper RP character for myself, it might end up similar in parts - at least if you look at her from the front. Dress wouldn't have a side cut, there wouldn't be thighboots, and there wouldn't be the weird bare-back-held-by-neck angle to the dress, but the rest could end up that way for a melee sorceress.

Is that because that's what I like, or all the stuff in media? After all, what we see shapes us. Tough, hence being conflicted.

There is something of a disconnect between promotional artwork and her portrayal in game which is more muted, but the intentions behind her design seem rather apparent to me.

Yep. Especially when you get into some of the other artworks for her, which go yikes quickly. Hadn't seen some of them, those are really ouch.

Shanoa's design is great imo. I don't mind the thigh boots or the bareback clothing because it looks aesthetically pleasing and it doesn't take away from Shanoa's personality while looking stylish instead of gratuitous.

I feel this is mainly due to her heighth, personally. But I don't know. Maybe I just like long hair too much xD;
She's my favorite vania character, and I usually end up going "I like her design", before noticing aspects I like less.

Conflicting!

Here's a quick and dirty edit with a standard anime face to compare and contrast.

This...is a brilliant edit. Very good point. That is some HUGE contrast, and the head/body ratio really shows. Didn't even notice that before you pointed it out.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,427
Speaking of Castlevania, expect more giant titty monsters in Bloodstained similar to the one in that old beta.

MnIPSqIA1OZ3qLtRh2wDYoPd8YJb7S9f37jS6WMiQKcc1wrEmyMY6YDtace1sbRI_4dfjOAb2zVJ4IdrfC-tHwtvJOdTE0uB_TSR-m-RfArtWXZe9CQPKxYbe7J_7Y89mGIlurjOERy-gokoyYF9T8d8E5ZdaJ2Ob56LSepjZKp0CDtLh7xzRKMNqtdGtdWWEBHwvipjT5xlmQBf2oDl0mJ8XmYb_crGIvtgTy9V2KyZq3RwtiIi9mM7yEFakf1sUGRMFozzDpo9snMBDVoRjdsk5srA=s0-d-e1-ft


With Wayforward officially supporting the game now, I'd expect more than a few of the same sort of thing as we grow closer to the release date.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
The thing about Shanoa and the art style is that her face is the opposite of the animu saucer eyes doll face thing that a lot of games have going. Her face is serious, severe even, with eyes that are almost a slit. This makes the more questionable parts of her design more easily accepted.

Here's a quick and dirty edit with a standard anime face to compare and contrast.
RFLL5Fc.png
That's terrifying (and a point well made) :D
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
The thing about Shanoa and the art style is that her face is the opposite of the animu saucer eyes doll face thing that a lot of games have going. Her face is serious, severe even, with eyes that are almost a slit. This makes the more questionable parts of her design more easily accepted.

Here's a quick and dirty edit with a standard anime face to compare and contrast.
RFLL5Fc.png




And you had such a good run at it, too. :D

Shit's going to give me nightmares tonight.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
Humble are owned by ign now btw.

So am i thr only one playing darksiders 3? Early on so far and Fury is a neat character. Granted she falls under the trope of being a blood knight that merely desires the joy of battle but i hadnt seen anything majorly offensive so far.
Well id agree about the boob armor i just reinvision her chest plate being less silly.looking in my mind :v
I'm playing it too, getting near the end.

I think they've done about as good of a job as you can expect while still maintaining the ridiculous art style from the previous games. The main things I appreciate are toning down exposed flesh on female characters a lot, making a lot of the regular enemies female, not trying to make all of the female characters hot, and including a pretty decent nonbinary character. The only Sin that's even sexy is Pride, which makes enough sense.

I don't love Fury's boob armor and heels but IMO it's not any less practical than all the enormous gauntlets and pauldrons everyone else has, nor a lot of the armor designs. Plus her hair is amazing and I want it.
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,412
So Darksiders III has an incredibly cool female Lust, one of the deadly sins. I was just watching someone stream the game when she made her appearance. Heels aside (for my own sanity), her design is great.



A fully covered-up female videogame character?? Just what would happen in a stream's chat?
Oh yeah.

"I am pretty sure that's a man"
"Non-binary Lust!" Edit: (Turns out they are non-binary, see below)
"Is that a boy or a girl?"
"Is she a tard?"
 
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PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,120
Castlevania%2B-%2BOrder%2Bof%2BEcclesia%2B-%2BPTBR.jpg

I admittedly like her design but it's exploitative any way you cut it. Just look at the official NA box art. The way she's angled makes it look as though she's completely undressed above the waist. Albus on the other hand screams functionality: leather boots, breastplate, gloves, and a holster for his pistol.

There is something of a disconnect between promotional artwork and her portrayal in game which is more muted, but the intentions behind her design seem rather apparent to me.
Holy heck. I never realized just how much of Shanoa's back was exposed in the NA boxart.
Doesn't help that she has the "Shit! I forgot to zip my dress up." face.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
That's terrifying (and a point well made) :D

Shit's going to give me nightmares tonight.

Isn't it? :D

This...is a brilliant edit. Very good point. That is some HUGE contrast, and the head/body ratio really shows. Didn't even notice that before you pointed it out.

It's more than just the eyes, it's her overall proportions. At a glance, she looks about eight heads tall. Anime, in general, tends to limit women to six, at most...

Yes, of course; there's a lot of anime / moe design tropes that are missing in that design, making it far more palatable. An unexpected one, to me at least, that I noticed after the edit is the hair; anime characters are rarely depicted with that kind of flowing, super long, exuberant yet kind of messy hair, which I guess it's a far more gothic kind of visual trope.

And of course, anime women have either completely flat chests to appeal to the loli crowd, or D+ cups with skin-tight cloth or cleavages down to their navels; there's no in-between like these suggested but not obvious curved shapes.
 

Kater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
639
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To you and every other gamer and/or misguided character designer who believes the bolded in the quote is true.

It's not that hard. You are creating a solution for a design issue that doesn't actually exist.
That's some gorgeous art and some good examples of standard breastplate armors that would fit a variety of people, no matter if they have breasts or not.

I am glad that some games that have awful designs that include boob armor of the worst sorts like Dragon Age Origins or The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim have mod support and people in the community actually thought to change the design to something much nicer and practical.

Here's an example from the mod called "Neutral Female Armors" for DA:O:

4462-3-1462398213.jpg

4462-0-1462398213.jpg


The same idea is behind the other mod I talked about for Skyrim, that one being called "Practical Female Armors". Some more examples:

250_uthgerd_the_unbroken.jpg

48160-1-1430831408.jpg


It still leaves some room around the chest. Not sure it's enough on some of them but it's better than having to look at the original armor design.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
So Darksiders III has an incredibly cool female Lust, one of the deadly sins. I was just watching someone stream the game when she made her appearance. Heels aside (for my own sanity), her designs is great.



A fully covered-up female videogame character?? Just what would happen in a stream's chat?
Oh yeah.

"I am pretty sure that's a man"
"Non-binary Lust!"
"Is that a boy or a girl?"
"Is she a tard?"

Lust is nonbinary. Everyone else refers to them with they/them pronouns.
 

RpgN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,552
The Netherlands
So Darksiders III has an incredibly cool female Lust, one of the deadly sins. I was just watching someone stream the game when she made her appearance. Heels aside (for my own sanity), her designs is great.



A fully covered-up female videogame character?? Just what would happen in a stream's chat?
Oh yeah.

"I am pretty sure that's a man"
"Non-binary Lust!"
"Is that a boy or a girl?"
"Is she a tard?"


I had to watch all of it.

Lust has the best and most convincing voice acting out of the rest. It's been a while since I watched/played a western game with any kind of story, I loved the dialogue and how right it felt. Why did the playable character sound angry at the beginning?

We need more characters like Lust. She was so fun to watch.

Edit: apologies, I didn't know they are nonbinary.
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,412
Lust is nonbinary. Everyone else refers to them with they/them pronouns.

Oh, is that so? Then that's not a bad thing to say at all. Makes me feel even better about the character to be honest. Thanks for letting me know, I wouldn't have otherwhise catching only that snippet.

Why did the playable character sound angry at the beginning?

I take it Fury is angry pretty much all the time in honor of her name.
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,682
Québec, Canada
Wow, they had the "perfect" excuse to have Lust be in a skimpy outfit and they didn't go for it.

And non-binary? That's refreshing.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
Lust has the best and most convincing voice acting out of the rest. It's been a while since I watched/played a western game with any kind of story, I loved the dialogue and how right it felt. Why did the playable character sound angry at the beginning?
It's a long story, but the short version is that Fury thinks they are responsible for killing a friend of hers. Add to this, Lust is making things worse for everyone because it's all a game to them.

Oh, is that so? Then that's not a bad thing to say at all. Makes me feel even better about the character to be honest. Thanks for letting me know, I wouldn't have otherwhise catching only that snippet.
Yeah it's not ever overtly stated. Nobody makes a big deal of it, which is my favorite.

Wow, they had the "perfect" excuse to have Lust be in a skimpy outfit and they didn't go for it.

And non-binary? That's refreshing.
When you first enter Lust's domain Fury remarks "this place doesn't seem very lusty", and it's explained to her that everyone lusts for something different. Power, sex, food, peace, what have you.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,300
That's some gorgeous art and some good examples of standard breastplate armors that would fit a variety of people, no matter if they have breasts or not.

I am glad that some games that have awful designs that include boob armor of the worst sorts like Dragon Age Origins or The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim have mod support and people in the community actually thought to change the design to something much nicer and practical.

Here's an example from the mod called "Neutral Female Armors" for DA:O:

4462-3-1462398213.jpg

4462-0-1462398213.jpg


The same idea is behind the other mod I talked about for Skyrim, that one being called "Practical Female Armors". Some more examples:

250_uthgerd_the_unbroken.jpg

48160-1-1430831408.jpg


It still leaves some room around the chest. Not sure it's enough on some of them but it's better than having to look at the original armor design.
Thing about boob armor in general that annoys me so much is that you're DRASTICALLY increasing the chances of being killed with boob armor.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,427
That's some gorgeous art and some good examples of standard breastplate armors that would fit a variety of people, no matter if they have breasts or not.

I am glad that some games that have awful designs that include boob armor of the worst sorts like Dragon Age Origins or The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim have mod support and people in the community actually thought to change the design to something much nicer and practical.

Here's an example from the mod called "Neutral Female Armors" for DA:O:

4462-3-1462398213.jpg

4462-0-1462398213.jpg


The same idea is behind the other mod I talked about for Skyrim, that one being called "Practical Female Armors". Some more examples:

250_uthgerd_the_unbroken.jpg

48160-1-1430831408.jpg


It still leaves some room around the chest. Not sure it's enough on some of them but it's better than having to look at the original armor design.

Yes, we talked a little about modded Skyrim a few pages ago and how, while it can fix a ton of the problems Skyrim has when it comes to design, wading through the often murky waters to find those good mods can be a trying experience.

To that end, I'd suggest this: https://eskrimmods.blogspot.com/ (NSFW)

It's a pretty good collective of skyrim mods and ports with, importantly, filters to allow people to step around lewd armors if they so chose.
 
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