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Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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I dearly love Mamotte Knight / Gotta Protectors, but it's sadly telling that the Ninja (0:40 in that video) is the one class that's missing from the promotional materials for more recent games (if not excised from these games altogether).
I guess it went from "kind of parodic sexualization of everyone" to "straightforward sexualization of women" in about as much time as you'd expect for a Japanese videogame series. :(
But...but...Valkia the Bloody is like the only Khorne human model that's still around from Fantasy.
Boob armor aside, Valkia the Bloody is like the best Khorne character out there for her sheer power.
To be fair I largely stopped following Warhammer/40k (aside from the books) when the hobby became less compatible with my time and cash available when my daughter was born :D I treated Age of Sigmar as a bit of a 'jumping off point', but still enjoy the novels as they are easy to read when I'm tired on the train.But...but...Valkia the Bloody is like the only Khorne human model that's still around from Fantasy.
Boob armor aside, Valkia the Bloody is like the best Khorne character out there for her sheer power.
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Yeah, doesn't help that she's still one of the better woman models made by GW.
SHE'S A GHOST! WHY DOES SHE HAVE BOOBS!?!
It doesn't have much logic to it besides having something for people's horny mind to latch onto, I'd say.Yeah, doesn't help that she's still one of the better woman models made by GW.
SHE'S A GHOST! WHY DOES SHE HAVE BOOBS!?!
I'm hoping that the new Sisters of Battle line does away with the boob armor they have but I'm not holding my breath. It's so annoying. It takes them YEARS to make new women models and they're all sexed out the wazoo.
Heh, I'm not sure there's enough room to try and unpack both the global fascination in mythology with 'sexy supernatural female monsters', fantasy sculptors and artists that are fascinated with it and the sales potential of such titty monsters to a presumed audience of young men.Yeah, doesn't help that she's still one of the better woman models made by GW.
SHE'S A GHOST! WHY DOES SHE HAVE BOOBS!?!
Although this covers the latter well enough :)
They've shown a prototype of them. While they look a tiny bit chunkier than the old ones so at least the 'power armour' isn't skin-tight leather any more, they are still in corsets and boobplate.
They have not.
Which is particularly bad as the armors is specifically not skin tight. It's meant to be thick like tank armor, so it just looks hideous and jarringly out of place rather than titilating.
In general though, as a 40k fan, GW is turning around and producing more diverse models. We're getting numerous straight up black models now and the recent boardgame set features what appears to be female traitor guard (implying that there'll be female guardsmen nodels with the next update).
The lore, for the most part, is pretty gender neutral. There's no female space marines, which is fine in theory as space marines are supposed to be a tiny thousandth of a percentage of the human military forces, but is a problem when the space marines are the face of the hobby.
The black library books, when they focus on humans, are far different. Women are generally in the forefront of the more recent books, in all sorts of positions and of all colours Dan in particular spends half the ghost books literally shoving feminism down your throat like an after school special.
For the most part, you'll only ever find outright sexism in Forge World's content, and they're a subsidiary company. But boy do they have some disgusting shut in their books...
I read a piece some time ago about how the 40K lore, in a refusal to actually talk about sex, can end up coming across as incredibly queer and fetish-friendly. I doubt this was the original writers' intentions, but I can see the interpretation.
outermode.com/warhammer-40k-queer-darkness-fetish-first-millennium
outermode.com/warhammer-40k-queer-darkness-fetish-first-millennium
Wait people think Ada looks like a teenager? I don't see it at all. This is a video game however, and Resident Evil has never gone 100% photorealistic. This is probably about as close to photorealistic as RE has ever been, but Capcom has always had a way of stepping back just a tiny bit from the uncanny valley (I feel the Metal Gear games do this similarly) in terms of how characters' faces look. Maybe that face could plausibly be the face of a teenager, but social cues like dress and demeanor imply otherwise.
In any case, the lore (as far as we still know) states she's supposed to be ~24 during the events of this game, and I think the character design and character model make that believable. This isn't a Honoka or Marie Rose situation here.
In any case, the lore (as far as we still know) states she's supposed to be ~24 during the events of this game, and I think the character design and character model make that believable. This isn't a Honoka or Marie Rose situation here.
Now that you all outed yourselves, You will need to humour me when SoB release the next year.
Those will be some post.
Those will be some post.
Jokes on you, we outed ourselves weeks ago!
:P Oh I'm not looking forward to that hot mess that will be the SOB reveal.
Thanks for the link, enjoyed reading that.
Many of Games Workshop's faction designs are informed by it's forebears (as the article mentions) in various fantasy sources like 2000AD etc, you've also got weird fantasy art informing the artists that inform the miniature designers and writers that inform the background, and a definite push for faction-specific armour/outfit themes. I'd argue it's a mix of all of the above, where some of the fantasy stylings are undoubtedly fetish-friendly, but also an internal push for the marines being the face of the company shortly after the release of 40k in the late 80s. Before then, if there was a 'face' of the company it was an Elric-style spikey chaos warrior informed by fantasy art with fetish gear influences etc, but after that the popularity of 40k eclipsing Warhammer and driving growth (marine kits outsell pretty much everything else in the range combined) made it more about 'genetically engineered, brightly coloured killing machines are less controversial and more toys-for-boys-like' (which obviously has its own issues). That's why there's so many games where you play as a generic marine/Terminator as 'violent shooty man' sells more then 'fetish leather elf dude'.
That aligns with the point where GW was expanding to having a shop with a figure cabinet in the window on every major UK high street, and the bold colours of marine forces were both more eyecatching and more child-friendly! When I worked for them 20 years ago, whilst still at art college, we were very much told to focus more on a deceptively simplistic Saturday morning cartoon element of 'these are the good guys'. Easier to sell to parents than 'these are the shocktroops of a dying, unimaginably cruel regime trying to cling on a little longer in it's death throes against the soul-devouring gods of war, change , plague and desire, and rendered as 'good' only by virtue of containing virtually all of the viewpoint characters and over half of the factions'.
To bring it back to character design, I think it's hard to work out exactly how much of the leather and spikes fetish looks adopted by 40k hive gangs, chaos cultists, dark eldar/dark elf witches, slaaneshi daemons etc comes from fantasy art (including GW's own studio) first and how much of it from fetish gear, when they obviously inform each other too. It all gets incredibly murky when you add in various fascist/fetish stuff like Imperial troops running around in tight black leather and stormcoats decked out in skulls and eagles etc too, no wonder they chose to lead with the brightly coloured orders of asexual space marines as sort of honourable space knights, rather than catholic space nuns with guns, S&M torture elves or naked soul-devouring demons!
It all only hangs together as a company line of 'there's room for whatever the writers, artists and sculptors want in a weird galaxy', but as Siggy-P noted above, it's interesting that the most beloved writer is probably Dan Abnett's cracking sci-fi tales about diverse characters when so many of the army books scarcely mention women at all. Considering that so much of the fiction about the Imperial Guard includes female soldiers and officers it's so weird that they only have women included in the model kits for other armies in either specifically female units or fetish kit. It's like the Eldar (space elves) are allowed to have female warriors before the Imperium is, because elves are sexy, or some shit like that. Even they get boobplates. For a wide galaxy with a ridiculous amount of lore (the fiction series, The Horus Heresy, set in 30k that sets up the 'modern' 40k era runs to 50 books) it also seems to be hung up on the idea that you can't have female marines. Especially so when, when they decided to make bigger kits in order to sell new minis, it's perfectly fine for lost armies of two-foot bigger marines to appear, and old heroes to enter a macguffin chamber to become even bigger to match. The lore changes according to the whims of the writers, but there is a tendency to assume some things are set in stone while playing fast-and-loose with others.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/11/40k-we-need-to-talk-about-the-new-marneus-calgar.html
On another note, will also just drop a quote from that piece that hat_hair linked here that I think applies to a lot of games that combine 50 hours of violence and a death-toll in the thousands with either an awkward or non-existent approach to relationships.
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I have to admit, I've mainly followed the SoB launch as the Exorcist rocket tank is my favourite 40k kit, the idea of a crazy church organ dictating artillery fire pretty much sums up the oddball gothic craziness that I like about the setting. I was also defeated by trying to build a hybrid metal/plastic kit years ago as it just kept falling apart under it's own weight, so I'd like to have another go if they remake it as plastic-only and I have a bit more hobby time in the next few years.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-BE/Sisters-of-Battle-Exorcist
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Since we are on a 40k run, let me talk about how the Black Library keeps screwing up Commander Shadowsun. Commander Shadowsun is the leader of the Tau's military forces and one of the few women leader generals in the setting. She also has a uniform that is not sexualized and is as practical as anything else the Tau do
Want to know what her first story is about? About how she will never experience the joy of giving birth. How to tell no women talked to the writers example 15323423241.
Want to know what her first story is about? About how she will never experience the joy of giving birth. How to tell no women talked to the writers example 15323423241.
The moment a writer starts only talking about ~motherhood~ when it comes to female characters, you know the writer is trash.
This rule is also known as the otherM syndrome. The name itself already has the issue hidden in it :D
Ah, Warhammer. Where somehow the writers manage to give a more fitting description of the concerns of greater Plague-Daemons giving birth to and doting on their virulent spawn through them crawling out of their skin than introducing the prime concern of a Tau high commander that's conquered star systems, and happens to be female, as having to comment on motherhood. There must be a million male space marines and I don't think I've ever read even one of them say 'you know what, sergeant, current focus on purging this xenos scum aside for a moment, I think I would have been a good dad'. Presumably that would be heresy for both marine and writer.Since we are on a 40k run, let me talk about how the Black Library keeps screwing up Commander Shadowsun. Commander Shadowsun is the leader of the Tau's military forces and one of the few women leader generals in the setting. She also has a uniform that is not sexualized and is as practical as anything else the Tau do
Want to know what her first story is about? About how she will never experience the joy of giving birth. How to tell no women talked to the writers example 15323423241.
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In the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, there is no science. No religion. No war.
Only the baby.
I agree with everything you say. The recent changes are due to a change in management, and the franchise as a whole is a mess of different visions from over 30 years of different writers and sensibilities. There are periods when the writers all wrote over the top stories, then serious stories to differentiate from Warhammer fantasy, then ironic stories, and so on...
But... To be fair to the space elves, they are all wearing basically spandex bodysuits, not proper armor. And the Dark Eldar are wearing genuine BDSM suits.
Edit: also, just because; Cadian Guardswoman:
Every single human on Cadia is recruited at birth into the Imperial Guard. Without exception.
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'Three marines and a baby' :D
Practically writes itself. 'Tiberius Stabbius, Captain of the 4th company, struggled with looking after the fledgling warrior until he realised that three seconds in the core of his plasma cannon got the bottles of milk, each marked with the seal of purity, to just the right temperature. Unfortunately, even the application of the most holy rites of the chapter did little when changing young Timmicus in the cold, dark cells of the barracks. 'And they shall know no fear', thought Tiberius, as his two brothers recoiled at the stench, following a contrived and comical misunderstanding about 'disposing of the filth'.'
In the case of Cadia, shouldn't that be 'was recruited' going by the current lore :DIn the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, there is no science. No religion. No war.
Only the baby.
I agree with everything you say. The recent changes are due to a change in management, and the franchise as a whole is a mess of different visions from over 30 years of different writers and sensibilities. There are periods when the writers all wrote over the top stories, then serious stories to differentiate from Warhammer fantasy, then ironic stories, and so on...
But... To be fair to the space elves, they are all wearing basically spandex bodysuits, not proper armor. And the Dark Eldar are wearing genuine BDSM suits.
Edit: also, just because; Cadian Guardswoman:
Every single human on Cadia is recruited at birth into the Imperial Guard. Without exception.
Can you give me a timestamp or say the problem?
Because the ghost's torsos retain some semblance of their human bodies... It's more nonsensical that she has hair and a skull face, or that she has the ghost equivalent of flesh and muscle mass for her breast and arms, but no skin for her face.Yeah, doesn't help that she's still one of the better woman models made by GW.
SHE'S A GHOST! WHY DOES SHE HAVE BOOBS!?!
Just because someone can get off on an aspect of a design, doesn't mean it's there for someone to get off to it. If you want to call out how her breast are sculpted or the fact that the legless ghost has an hourglass figure, that's a different discussion, but just having breast isn't really a crime on its own.
For all the parent stories in gaming, has anyone run into a story about mom's or motherhood that doesn't to trip over itself with fetishistic fertility nonsense? The best example I can think of is Bayonetta 1, and that's it's own can of worms.
I can kinda see that, although sexual isn't where my brain goes with that. They're the breast I'd expect to see on a grade schooler's note book.
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So I find this article about Senran Kaguta cutting back on the sexual content
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/in...xual-content-with-no-narrative-reason/.140409
And of course one of the first comments is
Shame on you ladies for wanting to drag us to a "cultural dark age" :p
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/in...xual-content-with-no-narrative-reason/.140409
And of course one of the first comments is
Shame on you ladies for wanting to drag us to a "cultural dark age" :p
Miranda in Grandia III. She's a single mother whose "motherhood story" involves struggling with and coming to accept that her son needs to follow his own path. Before that she mainly comes along to watch out for her son after he gets in way over his head being an RPG hero, and she is 100% the party leader while she's there. Sadly this is only in the first 5-6 hours of a 40-hour game, because Grandia III is a game with serious issues.
Is it worth playing, or do the 'serious issues' make it fall apart?
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When people talk like that, threy're talking about the producer or director which is the position with more influence, not people on smaller scale of positions like that for the same reason people put more on a director on a movie than the guy who makes CG. When they say things like that, they meant in that aspect.
So in the case of persona 5, the view of Hashino for them is the one in which they see, not the rest of the team in which thry don't even know who they are as they are in positions lower than a central one. Same thing with Kojima or Sakurai and many directors/producers out there.
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it's supposed to. gotta have that stretched out look for the meemz ;)
It's complicated. The battle system and everything related to it is top-notch, and the first 5-6 hours when Miranda is there are all around really enjoyable. After that though, her son Yuki is way too bland to be a decent protagonist, and other main character Alfina is a black hole of personality. The very next part of the story afterwards is a buildup to the stupidest Love Conquers All speech I've ever seen.
So there's probably very, very slim chance of this, but has anyone played the new Leisure Suit Larry game Wet Dreams Don't Dry? I was a fan of the series growing up, but didn't really pay any attention to the new game. Until I read a review in a local gaming magazine that really recommended it. The reviewer doesn't really go into details, but says the game is quite well written and even touches upon on gender equality in a witty way. He notes how game like Larry should have snowball's chance in hell in a world after MeToo, but the game succeeds.
I do trust the guy as a reviewer and he is also a writer himself and responsible for really affecting game about alcoholism through the eyes of a child, Lydia (female protagonist too). But he's also a man and possibly has blind spots when it comes to these things. So I don't really know where to ask for impressions from this angle, except in ResetEra. I should probably make a topic for it, but I don't know who I should trust then. I've seen the "recommend anime for my kids" and "anime without fanservice" threads here.
Or does anyone know a review that would explore this more than just in a one sentence? I'd just want to know if it has some problematic content and how bad it is.
I do trust the guy as a reviewer and he is also a writer himself and responsible for really affecting game about alcoholism through the eyes of a child, Lydia (female protagonist too). But he's also a man and possibly has blind spots when it comes to these things. So I don't really know where to ask for impressions from this angle, except in ResetEra. I should probably make a topic for it, but I don't know who I should trust then. I've seen the "recommend anime for my kids" and "anime without fanservice" threads here.
Or does anyone know a review that would explore this more than just in a one sentence? I'd just want to know if it has some problematic content and how bad it is.
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Oh no! We are entering a dark age! How are we going to survive?! I can't survive without my tiddies!!!
It really says everything about someone when their definition of "culture" is having "tiddies" on their virtual characters. Amazing culture you got there.
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Cover looks bad on mobile
Yeah it's not ideal but I couldn't find a picture that really summarised "evil feminazis comin to take ur tiddies" in the way I wanted. If anyone has suggestions I'm open to ideas!
What about an image of Pyra or some other awful design with text saying "10/10 design. Such a power fantasy for females. Don't let the feminazi prudes take our boobies away"
This link could be a good demonstration of why threads like this exist:
https://videostandards.org.uk/ratingboard/featured.html
Discusses a game that is in itself a summary of nearly all bad things about sexualized design - even extending to the mechanics itself. Warning, some of that stuff is very gross indeed.
Came up in the "oh no, evil steam/sony censored our totally-non-terrible porn games about underage characters!" threads. It's awful.
https://videostandards.org.uk/ratingboard/featured.html
Discusses a game that is in itself a summary of nearly all bad things about sexualized design - even extending to the mechanics itself. Warning, some of that stuff is very gross indeed.
Came up in the "oh no, evil steam/sony censored our totally-non-terrible porn games about underage characters!" threads. It's awful.
I was always under the impression that that was Samus' role. ( ͡°╭͜ʖ╮͡° )
I literally couldn't finish reading that. I got to the part about the honey and the dog and bailed.
Just what?
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