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Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)

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Deleted member 8583

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8,708
Icemonk191 said:
Just noticed we lost Kinsei. With all the shit that's been going on in the last few days I'm not surprised she left.
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Does not surprise me, the malice some of the post showed was on another level. Then you had plenty of people even questioning the intent of the thread and that it was just a troll topic. Nintendo fans are the worst here. I remember something similar in Smash representation thread were some poster said that Game and Watch and DK were the black representation and the Pokemon cat was the Latino one.
 
TheSyldat

TheSyldat

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Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Ketkat said:
Yeah, these threads have been exhausting to read to say the least. Hopefully we can get people to take our concerns seriously at some point in the future
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I'm not having my hopes high ...
Sadly the powers that be are still bigoted dyadic cis straight whie men in most occidental cultures countries ...
 
SolidSnakex

SolidSnakex

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Oct 25, 2017
23,339
SapphiCine said:
She is acting as a PR mouthpiece whether she intends to or not. Women get used by the men in control like this. Do you see the project leads addressing the bigger issue? No and you completely ignored the rest of my post.
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What i'm saying is that the image in particular is exactly what she was behind. That's her work. So I don't see how she's being used when she's literally giving meaning to the work that she contributed to the game. Polygon found the right person to actually explain the context behind what's being shown. As far as the rest of your post, I didn't comment on it simply because I can't answer it. Certainly CDPR's recent history with trans issues doesn't inspire confidence. But we won't have definitive word one way or another until the game is out. There have been studios that have done questionable things and then turned for the better, and studios that have done questionable things and continued to do them.
 
Biestmann

Biestmann

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Oct 25, 2017
7,412
Kinsei leaving is a huge loss. She was a great poster, but I can understand the decision she took and anyone else that would. I am a straight cis man myself, but the apathy and bigotry towards anyone but ourselves is getting hard to bear. These people sold their fucking integrity for video games.
 
TheSyldat

TheSyldat

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1,127
Biestmann said:
Kinsei leaving is a huge loss. She was a great poster, but I can understand the decision she took and anyone else that would. I am a straight cis man myself, but the apathy and bigotry towards anyone but ourselves is getting hard to bear. These people sold their fucking integrity for video games.
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Syldat throws fluffy teddy bears in Biestmann general vicinity

Frankly I can't blame her as an intersex ERA isn't all that welcoming to intersex folk either .

I hope she'll go see friends see some other landscapes and places , and come back to us one day .

Then again it would be easier for her to come back if this place was less filled with a bunch of dyadic cis straight dudes thinking and straight up saying that they know more than us what is punching us down and what isn't ...
 

Deleted member 8583

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8,708
TheSyldat said:
Syldat throws fluffy teddy bears in Biestmann general vicinity

Frankly I can't blame her as an intersex ERA isn't all that welcoming to intersex folk either .

I hope she'll go see friends see some other landscapes and places , and come back to us one day .

Then again it would be easier for her to come back if this place was less filled with a bunch of dyadic cis straight dudes thinking and straight up saying that they know more than us what is punching us down and what isn't ...
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For that to happen, at this rate, we need a gaming era purge (or a new site).
 
Pandora012

Pandora012

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Oct 25, 2017
5,495
The apathy comes from not having to deal with many of the issues that other minority groups have to deal with. They have been catered to, so much it hard to actually have empathy for other peoples suffering.
 
Hasseigaku

Hasseigaku

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,537
I do not blame anyone for peacing out, I'm a cis hetero white dude and I get exhausted by people being shitty about a wide variety of topics around here.

Can't imagine how exhausting it might be if it's talking about shit that impacts your everyday life.
 
Princess Bubblegum

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,268
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
SolidSnakex said:
What i'm saying is that the image in particular is exactly what she was behind. That's her work. So I don't see how she's being used when she's literally giving meaning to the work that she contributed to the game. Polygon found the right person to actually explain the context behind what's being shown. As far as the rest of your post, I didn't comment on it simply because I can't answer it. Certainly CDPR's recent history with trans issues doesn't inspire confidence. But we won't have definitive word one way or another until the game is out. There have been studios that have done questionable things and then turned for the better, and studios that have done questionable things and continued to do them.
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You're missing the forest for the trees. The writer of the article spoke to the company and they directed him to her without making a statement themselves. Yes, she was the right person for the writer to talk to about the meaning and context behind it but again it's a piece of art in the context of a game by developers that haven't addressed LGBTQ+ rep in the game and the real concern regarding the art. CDPR deserves no benefit of the doubt, no big developer does when it comes to trans representation.
 
Pandora012

Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
TheSyldat said:
There is struggling to empathize and then there is engaging in massive dog piling ...
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The dog piling is basically because they can't empathize. They see pages of it, but still continue to do it, without truly thinking about what's being said. I imagine it's a defensive measure, that becomes offensive. After all, mention how something is problematic that they like and people will take it as an attack on them.
 
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Metalsnakezero

Metalsnakezero

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Apr 13, 2018
2,034
From the wild lands of Brooklyn
That really sucks with how things went. I came to this site cause it was insightful and had meaningful discussion while being loose enough to have fun. Obviously the whole design of the site was going to still have people like those who push Kinsei and it pretty bad that it went that far.

Does anyone know if Kinsei has a twitter or anyway for follow their ideas?
 
Icemonk191

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
Monolith said:
Harsher punishments could work for this. Instead of days have bans be weeks then a repeat perm.
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Yeah honesty this. My biggest complaint about this place is that stuff like this is aloud to fester because the offender often just gets a slap on the wrist. I get it, they don't want to be like neogaf and hand out perms like they're gonna out of style but the line has to be drawn somewhere!
 
Prax

Prax

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Oct 25, 2017
3,755
Kinsei come back. This place is better with your perspective and contributions.

Dogpiles are overwhelming, especially if they are dogpiles of stupid, but hopefully you come back with a vengeance.

It's difficult to discuss these topics with people who identify so heavily with their hobbies or franchises or what have you that they feel like critique or discourse is a personal attack on them existentially, so the defense mechanism turns to dismissal or hostility to protect their egos.
 
Deleted member 49179

Deleted member 49179

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SapphiCine said:
A forum dominated by cis men is always going to be like this.
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While I definitely agree with you up to a point, there's also the whole historical and contextual position of the community to take onto account. We are on a forum mostly aimed at the gaming community after all, and gamers are not known to be an especially progressive bunch, most unfortunately. At least not the very vocal minority.
 
fertygo

fertygo

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Oct 25, 2017
8,558
Mods/admin obeying self request ban is always weird to me. Just ask them to change password to gibberish and logout if they want to.
 
Mr_Antimatter

Mr_Antimatter

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Oct 28, 2017
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On the subject of the cyberpunk controversy, It was enough combined with other issues to get me to cancel my long held amazon discounted pre-order.

Now, On the controversy itself I do know cyberpunk as a genre often has a theme of wild exploitation of women, minorities, etc. But this game doesn't seem to have the tack nor skill to really get that across without being overly exploitative itself.

Are there any games of note that really pull that off? I can think of a few movies that handle it fairly reasonably, but I'm drawing a blank games wise.
 

Deleted member 8583

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Mr_Antimatter said:
On the subject of the cyberpunk controversy, It was enough combined with other issues to get me to cancel my long held amazon discounted pre-order.

Now, On the controversy itself I do know cyberpunk as a genre often has a theme of wild exploitation of women, minorities, etc. But this game doesn't seem to have the tack nor skill to really get that across without being overly exploitative itself.

Are there any games of note that really pull that off? I can think of a few movies that handle it fairly reasonably, but I'm drawing a blank games wise.
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Not that I remember. The latest trilogy of Shadowrun games were good, but none of them went deep with those issues.
 
Metalsnakezero

Metalsnakezero

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Apr 13, 2018
2,034
From the wild lands of Brooklyn
Mr_Antimatter said:
On the subject of the cyberpunk controversy, It was enough combined with other issues to get me to cancel my long held amazon discounted pre-order.

Now, On the controversy itself I do know cyberpunk as a genre often has a theme of wild exploitation of women, minorities, etc. But this game doesn't seem to have the tack nor skill to really get that across without being overly exploitative itself.

Are there any games of note that really pull that off? I can think of a few movies that handle it fairly reasonably, but I'm drawing a blank games wise.
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Observer - Deals with people using the system to get their own while you play as a aging detective with old tech and questioning if his investigation is right.
VA-11 HALL-A - It pretty anime in a way that it fun with interesting subjects of queerness and sex work.
Invisible, Inc. - Good strategy game with the focus on stealing info from companies.
 
Delphine

Delphine

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Skittles said:
Site has been bleeding POC and women for awhile now
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To be fair I've just arrived a month ago and I already noticed how not as progressive as they think they are users on ERA are, and it's a bit exhausting to deal with. Still way less exhausting than on many places over the internet though, but... doesn't mean this forum shouldn't/couldn't be better still.
 
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SchrodingerC

SchrodingerC

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Oct 25, 2017
5,855
Oh Kinsei, I'm so sorry you got attacked with such hostility. Wish you weren't driven away like this, but understandable since gaming side has made you feel so unwelcomed. :(
 
HK-47

HK-47

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,585
Mr_Antimatter said:
On the subject of the cyberpunk controversy, It was enough combined with other issues to get me to cancel my long held amazon discounted pre-order.

Now, On the controversy itself I do know cyberpunk as a genre often has a theme of wild exploitation of women, minorities, etc. But this game doesn't seem to have the tack nor skill to really get that across without being overly exploitative itself.

Are there any games of note that really pull that off? I can think of a few movies that handle it fairly reasonably, but I'm drawing a blank games wise.
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Shadowrun has a lot of excellent women as party members, villians and npcs.
 
Warrior of Light

Warrior of Light

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Jan 11, 2018
9,847
Veelk said:
And if anyone spots a decent counterargument for why Tifa being redesigned to be less sexually objectified is bad but Jessie being redesigned to be more, hit me up.
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Remake Jessie is based on Roberto Ferrari's literal waifu.

QBnxxGQ.jpg
 
Mr_Antimatter

Mr_Antimatter

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Oct 28, 2017
2,571
TheSyldat said:
Linux or Windows versions of the games ?
If on linux I can double check on my own right now by just downloading one and see for myself then come back to you and tell you if the game works when having multiple monitors .
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Windows. I'll just redownload the game. Looks liek it was an issue with screen edge panning, which doesn't work so one just has to use WASD panning.
 
EdibleKnife

EdibleKnife

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Oct 29, 2017
7,723
esserius said:
This game looks really charming.
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Yeah this was the first thing I saw from E3 and instantly wishlisted it. Strikes me as exactly the kind of thing alot of people would actually like to see from Vanillaware's output.

Joe2187 said:
This game looks pretty good

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G'damn. I have yet to play the first. And keep getting it confused with V-11 Hall-A which I also need to return to and beat before the sequel for it arrives too.
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Completely missed Kinsei's thread due due to miring myself in the completely different pit of shit in BAD's Cyberpunk 2077/CDPR thread. I actually do remember the stuff Kinsei mentioned about Koichi Sugiyama, mentioned and learned about it around the time people were discussing the DQ11 soundtrack and I saw a video outlining the soundtrack controversy from SSFF.

Floored by how fucking viciously ugly shit got in Kinsei's thread even quicker than BAD's thread. It's astounding how some people can't fucking think straight when it comes to games. One moment they're praising Jim Sterling for rightfully calling out gross industry habits like financial exploitation and crunch and the next they're ripping into a poster genuinely trying to discuss how much homophobia is steeped in Japanese games. Too many ready to eviscerate anyone who wants to talk about serious issues beyond gameplay. So many people don't just want to plug their ears to the bigotry in the industry but rather outright fucking explode when it's even brought up. And fucking always those same people bring up how much they hate "outrage culture" and want games to stay "apolitical". Particularly funny in the Cyberpunk thread where people seriously tried to separate the genre from real world ideals and issues.

We literally have an ignore function on this board for both threads and posters and they could easily block all the "SJW nonsense" they despise. Yet they go out of their way to emotionally attack anyone who dares bring up bigotry. This place is somewhat better than GAF but it really is a testament to how ubiquitous this internalized "anti-SJW" (aka. anti-empathy) mindset is in the gaming community. Kinsei might never come to this site again let alone this topic but if they ever do see this post, I hope they know that there are a lot of people here, including myself, who are sorry you had to deal with that inane bullshit from other posters. I hope that you found at least a few true allies on ERA that you'll follow beyond the site and vice versa; and I want to hear from you or anyone else here if you could stand one more ally.
 
EdibleKnife

EdibleKnife

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Oct 29, 2017
7,723
Salarians said:
[Hidden content]
in short, I don't think this game should be supported
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Well shit. I actually hadn't even heard about any of this when the first game was on my radar. Had no idea of the connection to GaymerX either. I legit had zero fucking idea about Nick Robinson either until that DailyDot article. This industry is fucking crawling with some gross fuckers and their enablers.
 
esserius

esserius

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Oct 26, 2017
7,276
EdibleKnife said:
Well shit. I actually hadn't even heard about any of this when the first game was on my radar. Had no idea of the connection to GaymerX either. I legit had zero fucking idea about Nick Robinson either until that DailyDot article. This industry is fucking crawling with some gross fuckers and their enablers.
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As the film industry will attest, it's really difficult to get shitlords out of media.
 
caff!!!

caff!!!

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Oct 29, 2017
3,029
Honestly, I've had the thoughts since cyberpunk 2077's first trailer that this game was going to be like an 80's cyberpunk themed action work, complete with all the baggage and yikes of the era. I didn't figure the cover on such baggage would be blown this early, but I actually hope the game does criticize such elements as doubtful as that seems to be.
 
Weltall Zero

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
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Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
About Kinsei's thread, I think this post sums up so well what's wrong with Era's reaction to it:

I don't understand the point of this thread in general. Are you implying that by purchasing the Season Pass that you're supporting homophobic viewpoints? Because that's clearly not true.

"Are you criticising me, specifically? If yes, fuck you; if not, I don't give a shit.". Every man for himself; zero interest for anything that concerns other people or collectives. "If you're not trying to guilt trip me, why are you bringing this to my attention at all?".
 
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