Looks like her shoulder pads were stuffed elsewhere in her new art.
It's hilarious to think Urushihara had the tame designs when he's usually known for really erotic and hentai drawings.
Looks like her shoulder pads were stuffed elsewhere in her new art.
It hard to tell at what level of the company make those choices and how much of a pull certain people have. I will argue Persona has strong female characters but there times they have scenes that feel out of place with the characters position (Royal has a problematic moment with the new female character).Even with video games, there's a portion of the Japanese industry who are going through some effort to do better in recent years, especially with big, more internationally oriented IPs. Like, Square Enix could've done WAY WORSE with Tifa in FFVII's remake (though there's still room for improvement) but made a conscious decision to not sex-doll her up to the 100th degree like they did with Cidney in FFXV, and Capcom has done well with the (default) designs of female characters in the more recent Resident Evil games.
Unfortunately this approach doesn't quite reach all of their IPs yet, but even at its worst something like REMake 2 doesn't get as bad as tribal-outfit-Sheva (unless I've missed some piece of DLC/optional content). I hope that with the suprisingly massive international success of Monster Hunter World, maybe they'll apply some of that REmake female character design-logic to the next Monster Hunter as well, as they look to repeat/expand on the franchises newfound western success.
Well, at least with Tifa, there seems to have been someone, or more than one person, at SQEX who was/were all "yo, guys, we have to take a careful approach with Tifa in this remake that we are making for a more worldwide audience" and made them take the current approach that is about as tasteful a look as Tifa can probably have with a design this faithful to her OG one.It hard to tell at what level of the company make those choices and how much of a pull certain people have. I will argue Persona has strong female characters but there times they have scenes that feel out of place with the characters position (Royal has a problematic moment with the new female character).
Looks like her shoulder pads were stuffed elsewhere in her new art.
Something I noticed with Fate and stuff too. They were tamer when they were straight up banging but now we can't have that so we just have to have everyone running around in lingerie I guess hahaIt's hilarious to think Urushihara had the tame designs when he's usually known for really erotic and hentai drawings.
Something I noticed with Fate and stuff too. They were tamer when they were straight up banging but now we can't have that so we just have to have everyone running around in lingerie I guess haha
It feels like over the years it's become widely accepted that fans want to imagine having sex with characters, but don't want to imagine those characters having sex themselves.
So now everyone has to be both:
a) an innocent virgin
b) sexually available
It was weirdly refreshing in In/Spectre this season where a woman just straight up admits to having had sex (even if it used some very unnatural exposition).
That's what's weird to me. It feels like Mass Effect was as close as (I personally think) we got to having people who fucked but also had character. Yes the path "to the fucking" was kind of paint by numbers but I don't think I've spoken to anyone who lusts/loves the characters for their physical attributes over their personality traits. Hell people like myself loved Tali and we never even saw her face (until they retconned it to just be "Human but with some junk on their faces"). Ever since then it's like the potential for shippers/shipping wars, player pandering, and other things have become so prevalent that people are downright afraid to just commit to relationship writing unless it's at the VERY end of a story or game. It's really a shame because I feel some of the most untapped writing potential out there is established relationships between characters and how those relationships persist through things in fantasy/scifi settings or even normal scenarios.It feels like over the years it's become widely accepted that fans want to imagine having sex with characters, but don't want to imagine those characters having sex themselves.
So now everyone has to be both:
a) an innocent virgin
b) sexually available
It was weirdly refreshing in In/Spectre this season where a woman just straight up admits to having had sex (even if it used some very unnatural exposition).
You see that in a lot of regards in cosplay/youtube/twitch etc as well. People will lose whole followings based on it. I had dated a cosplayer when I was younger and was super bitter about the fact that she never admitted to dating me while we were together, and even though I don't agree with the decision, I can see why some wouldn't. I've seen models and other content creators get unfollowed/lose support/get shit on for the person they choose to date, so I can see why this persists, and hate that it's come to that.I mean that's literally the japanese pop idol scenario right now.
Half the country lusts over you, but don't you dare get a boyfriend or else your career is over because "the illusion has been broken".
Indeed. I recall an interview with an ex-SNK dev that was translated by shmuplations. http://shmuplations.com/snkgoldenage/But yeah, game devs certainly seem petrified of alienating certain vocal fanbases, both those who lust after fictional characters, and those who play matchmaker with them.
Even with video games, there's a portion of the Japanese industry who are going through some effort to do better in recent years, especially with big, more internationally oriented IPs. Like, Square Enix could've done WAY WORSE with Tifa in FFVII's remake (though there's still room for improvement) but made a conscious decision to not sex-doll her up to the 100th degree like they did with Cidney in FFXV, and Capcom has done well with the (default) designs of female characters in the more recent Resident Evil games.
Unfortunately this approach doesn't quite reach all of their IPs yet, but even at its worst something like REMake 2 doesn't get as bad as tribal-outfit-Sheva (unless I've missed some piece of DLC/optional content). I hope that with the suprisingly massive international success of Monster Hunter World, maybe they'll apply some of that REmake female character design-logic to the next Monster Hunter as well, as they look to repeat/expand on the franchises newfound western success.
It hard to tell at what level of the company make those choices and how much of a pull certain people have. I will argue Persona has strong female characters but there times they have scenes that feel out of place with the characters position (Royal has a problematic moment with the new female character).
It will forever irk me that they never followed through on giving Tifa (even a subtle) scar from where Sephiroth slashed her.
Any new outrage posts from the usual places about how they still aren't big enough? I could use a good laugh.
Honestly this is a much more modest look than I thought compared to the original dress. A little bummed that this more or less debunks then scar theory, but otherwise it's still a relief Square didn't let 20+ years of wildly disproportioned fan-art influence the design.
It will forever irk me that they never followed through on giving Tifa (even a subtle) scar from where Sephiroth slashed her.
I kept hoping it would be revealed but they keep showing more skin and it's nowhere to be found. Shame.
I mean...practically her whole stomach is shown and now her whole cleavage/collar bone area is shown. If it IS there it's going to be dainty as hell and hardly worth showing at that point or even having if they don't outright show it.It could still be in the area below the cleavage and above the midriff.
I just worry they'll retcon it that she was never actually slashed and was just hit really hard with the flat part of his blade.That would be super lame.
That would be pretty good. Modern Netherrealm has come a long way from MK9's designs. They still give almost every female character high heels, but that's probably my biggest complaint. I really wish other fighting games would be like them, and not depend on the fanservice money that almost every other fighting franchise has done.
Imo they still have some great designs. Jaguar Warrior, Eresh, and Huang Di in particular being some favorites of mine.Fate had such awesome designs before it went full gacha. I will forever love F/SN Rider for example. She was incredible looking in both her servant and casual outfits without having to show a ton of skin.
With the leaps in technology compared to the 90s, MK creators wanted to push everything to the extreme. It was not just the female character designs but also the violence which was far above anything in MK1-4. Though only MK1 was serious in fatalities, after MK2 it swayed to parody side. Same with MK9, people were appalled by the violence but with MKX and 11 they were used to it and look it more as a parody and fun. Difference is that female character sexualisation was never the main point in 90s MK games, as opposed to the violence and fatalities. Models were based on real digitized actors so proportions and fanservice was to be help to a bare minimum so as not to expose the real actors behind it. No such issue with CGI models, hence the liberties with the character designs In that sense, MK went truly back to its roots.
That makes a lot of sense. I can see how their design philosophy would move towards the super fanservice of the PS2-PS3 era of games. What shocks me is that they course corrected. I don't know if they got a lot of criticism for MK9 that they took to heart, or if new hires just naturally moved away from those kinds of designs, or if they just felt they couldn't have that much sexualization with the level of violence in their games. I'm just so happy to see at least one developer move away from fanservice, and not overload their DLC with skimpy outfits to make a cheap buck.
They did add a bit of t&a back in the day between mk2 and ultimate 3, but it's no where near as blatant as mk9.
rolling it back made for some cool designs in mk11. I love the revamped skarlet and katana designs.
It's a very twelve-year-old boy's take on sexuality, which I think says everything.What I hate about the argument that western games have become prudish compared to the sexuality found in some JRPGs is that it feels like such a very rigid view of sexuality. Like you are either in chainmail bikinis or you are a prude. There is no acknowledgement that a character can be sexy through their actions or their characterizations. It just feels like such a lazy way to look at sexuality.
What I hate about the argument that western games have become prudish compared to the sexuality found in some JRPGs is that it feels like such a very rigid view of sexuality. Like you are either in chainmail bikinis or you are a prude. There is no acknowledgement that a character can be sexy through their actions or their characterizations. It just feels like such a lazy way to look at sexuality.
What I hate about the argument that western games have become prudish compared to the sexuality found in some JRPGs is that it feels like such a very rigid view of sexuality. Like you are either in chainmail bikinis or you are a prude. There is no acknowledgement that a character can be sexy through their actions or their characterizations. It just feels like such a lazy way to look at sexuality.
Honestly I'd love to a "real" take on a video game that actually indulges in sex instead of skirting around it with fanservice and stuff, but there is a -99% chance of any of them happening with mechanics that are remotely engaging and/or not just visual novels lol.
The thing is why does a stereotypical fantasy RPG or your average fighting game need to be sexualized? It's not like most of these games have explicit sexual content in them. The 'sex' in them is nothing but women character design. Most of the time the designs are illogical or off-putting. Most of the games would play the same regardless of character design.
If gamers want sex why not just play a porn/romance game?
They don't necessarily want sex but want to look at sexy women or play as them in a game. It was such a normal thing in media for a long time, that I honestly didn't think anything about it until I got older and was made more conscious about it.The thing is why does a stereotypical fantasy RPG or your average fighting game need to be sexualized? It's not like most of these games have explicit sexual content in them. The 'sex' in them is nothing but women character design. Most of the time the designs are illogical or off-putting. Most of the games would play the same regardless of character design.
If gamers want sex why not just play a porn/romance game?
I'm sort of under the impression that most Japanese devs wouldn't even know how to make a game like that. Aside companies like From Software (which still took some time to get to where they are), they simply don't hire artists and directors who have that mindset. Shigenori Soejima tried this, it seems like multiple times, and Hashino (piece of shit that he is) shut him down. The idea of a non-sexualized woman in media just doesn't process for them, and that's probably what happens at a lot of game devs in Japan. As such, it becomes a reinforcing circle. Public perception illustrates that Japanese games are for horny men, and as horny men continue to fill the ranks, it becomes a race to the bottom. Especially true as many societies and cultures have seen a recent backlash against progressivism (and Japan wasn't very progressive to begin with).I duno how to explain it, but I feel a lot of the examples perfect for this topic that come frome anime games is almost like a meme.
Like if you wanted reddit to play your game, so you just throw in "wacky memes" just to get their sales. Except in this case, it's just "badly over sexualised girl" just being throw in solely for the hardcore otaku and "I'm literally crying because they censored one inch of a character"
I dunno how to best put it, but it just feels empty and shallow with no purpose other than being a marketing gimmick. I think it's made worse when a lot of these games aren't exactly quality.
Honestly, I just think it's best to get rid of all this content. Look at God of war PS4. We went from nudity and threesome mini games to none and it was one of the best games of the year still. Surely we could have at least some of these anime games being really good games without the need for molestiation, stripper outfits and gross treatment of underage girls. It just doesn't seem to have any point, other than a few thousand lonely young guys scared of porn or watching Netflix or whatever.
There's a funny story behind that.Ive been playing Dark Souls Remastered for the first time and all women character designs have been excellent so far except for Gwynevere.
Source: https://www.giantbomb.com/profile/7...esign-works-translation-npcs-and-monst/98089/Miyazaki: Well, the truth is, I just wanted to make a really big woman. I think it was a Fujiko F. Fujio manga, (Yasuragi no Yakata, literally Tranqil Mansion), there was a company president who joins an exclusive club to escape his stressful work life, and there's a giant woman who takes care of the club members, almost like a mother… don't you think that's just a perfect situation? A giant, considerate, caring woman. The kind we all lost when we grew up, that's what I wanted to make. Originally I also wanted to put a mouth in the palm of her hand, and we made all of the animations, but it didn't make it into the final game. Talking of glamour, her breasts are nothing to do with me, they happened without my knowledge. It's all the artist's fault. I think I mentioned it earlier but I always seek a certain refinement in all my designs.
Waragai: Really? Haha
Miyazaki: Yes, But the artist had such a happy look on his face that I didn't have the heart to stop him.
That's hilarious. I'm happy that she didn't get mouth hands though, sounds creepy.There's a funny story behind that.
Source: https://www.giantbomb.com/profile/7...esign-works-translation-npcs-and-monst/98089/
There's a funny story behind that.
Source: https://www.giantbomb.com/profile/7...esign-works-translation-npcs-and-monst/98089/
That's hilarious. I'm happy that she didn't get mouth hands though, sounds creepy.
I always assumed they could avoid that problem if they started from the top. Like how Nintendo (in house) doesn't have this issue, while as soon as they let monolith soft and intelligent systems be in control, we get "waifus"I'm sort of under the impression that most Japanese devs wouldn't even know how to make a game like that. Aside companies like From Software (which still took some time to get to where they are), they simply don't hire artists and directors who have that mindset. Shigenori Soejima tried this, it seems like multiple times, and Hashino (piece of shit that he is) shut him down. The idea of a non-sexualized woman in media just doesn't process for them, and that's probably what happens at a lot of game devs in Japan. As such, it becomes a reinforcing circle. Public perception illustrates that Japanese games are for horny men, and as horny men continue to fill the ranks, it becomes a race to the bottom. Especially true as many societies and cultures have seen a recent backlash against progressivism (and Japan wasn't very progressive to begin with).
It's simply not going to happen until either Japanese consumers change their spending patterns or social conscience becomes a thing in Japan. Right now, so much of the purchasing power lies with the otaku that games are going to continue to bend over backwards for them. Hell, the otaku are so prevalent right now that a lot of the people making the games are otaku themselves so we're very far away from seeing much improvement. As for the political front, Japan is denying that a ton of women were made into sex slaves and mass-raped so hard that they're in a major trade war with South Korea right now. It's so bad right now that it wouldn't be unfair to state that Japan's political identity is tied to denying the rights of women.I always assumed they could avoid that problem if they started from the top. Like how Nintendo (in house) doesn't have this issue, while as soon as they let monolith soft and intelligent systems be in control, we get "waifus"
I would hope that if some of the biggest Japanese companies stopped doing this, it could encourage more to follow. But I'm jaded and I just assume that gust and Nippon ichi would make more games. it does seem like at least parts of Sony and Nintendo are trying though, so it might not be impossible to see improvement
Unfortunately, that means there isn't much we can do. I'm not saying don't shine a light on it, but rather its most effective right now to just not buy games that do this kind of thing?It's simply not going to happen until either Japanese consumers change their spending patterns or social conscience becomes a thing in Japan. Right now, so much of the purchasing power lies with the otaku that games are going to continue to bend over backwards for them. Hell, the otaku are so prevalent right now that a lot of the people making the games are otaku themselves so we're very far away from seeing much improvement. As for the political front, Japan is denying that a ton of women were made into sex slaves and mass-raped so hard that they're in a major trade war with South Korea right now. It's so bad right now that it wouldn't be unfair to state that Japan's political identity is tied to denying the rights of women.
Like all forms of bigotry, sexism doesn't "die off" when there's a generational turnover. Let's make a better world for women now.Unfortunately, that means there isn't much we can do. I'm not saying don't shine a light on it, but rather its most effective right now to just not buy games that do this kind of thing?
Maybe the next generation of the younger Japanese gamers will have a different attitude?
The very opposite is likely. Japanese youngsters are mostly likely drawn into the kinds of entertainment designed for them: anime, manga, and light novels. Right now these media are heavily targeting otaku tastes because, again, these are the people actually buying the product. Realistically the only way for there to be any change in Japan is for social conscience to gain a foothold, but there's no sign that this will happen and the trends are pointing in the opposite direction. Things would be different if Japan was receptive to social ideas from other countries, but it's not (read up on Japanese whaling if you want to be depressed) so any change will have to stem from internal sources.Unfortunately, that means there isn't much we can do. I'm not saying don't shine a light on it, but rather its most effective right now to just not buy games that do this kind of thing?
Maybe the next generation of the younger Japanese gamers will have a different attitude?
Miyazaki: Yes, But the artist had such a happy look on his face that I didn't have the heart to stop him.
Oh yeah, I already vote with my wallet and yeah I read it properly now, I just wonder specific with Japan. With the issues facing an aging population, it just makes me wonder if that would impact further generations. Maybe an increased birth rate and such leads to less "reliance" on this content?Like all forms of bigotry, sexism doesn't "die off" when there's a generational turnover. Let's make a better world for women now.
"Vote with your wallet" was admirably tackled by the OP, so read it.
Yeah I understand, I just wonder if a lot of these guys are unlikely to have kids and teach them bad values, a future generation might think better of this stuf. At least ideally anyway.The very opposite is likely. Japanese youngsters are mostly likely drawn into the kinds of entertainment designed for them: anime, manga, and light novels. Right now these media are heavily targeting otaku tastes because, again, these are the people actually buying the product. Realistically the only way for there to be any change in Japan is for social conscience to gain a foothold, but there's no sign that this will happen and the trends are pointing in the opposite direction. Things would be different if Japan was receptive to social ideas from other countries, but it's not (read up on Japanese whaling if you want to be depressed) so any change will have to stem from internal sources.
The best thing to do is to just not buy the products that disturb you but these tend not to be horribly dependent on sales outside of Japan so the effect is going to be limited.
I see that scenario and mindset being the case for the vast majority of anime productions.I feel like this statement encapsulates so much of video game art design.
"Sir, he drew the enormous breasts again, but his puppydog eyes...we couldn't bare to tell him to change it"
::sigh:: "Just ship the fucking thing, whatever."
I see that scenario and mindset being the case for the vast majority of anime productions.
Well, for the last decade or two it appears to be a combination of that and a god awful source material.I mean at this point that'd be an improvement given the crap that gets ok'd over the last few years.
Well, for the last decade or two it appears to be a combination of that and a god awful source material.