Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)

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fourfourfun

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Oct 27, 2017
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In the case of Kojima, it’s his game.
He can design the way he wants.
We are more than happy to critique several elements of games - from UI to controls to technical accomplishment to structure to monetisation - is talking characterisation beyond reproach, because surely absolutely every element of every game is the way they want it.
 

Shredderi

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Oct 25, 2017
1,441
I hate out of place boob armors and blatantly obvious fanservice. To me it gives this feeling of "so you think you need to entice me with this cringy shit so I would buy and play your game?". I would be embarassed if someone walked in on me playing the game featuring that kind of fanservice. Would be less ashamed of having straight up porn on. Not all fanservice and titillation is bad. Like with many things, it's all about context. I don't have problem with Dead or Alive franchise because that doesn't even try to pretend to be anything else than what it obviously is. DoA is honest about it's presentation and I would not buy it and then be bummed out by the sexualisation. It's not for me, but I don't hate it. Cool medieval fantasy world where everyone is wearing heavy and cool looking armor, except the females who have bikinis made of iron? That asks too much from my ability to suspend disbelief.
 

Syril

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Oct 26, 2017
5,290
Fire Emblem is 100% just weeaboo fanservice now. It's a shame because even the new games have compelling stories and fun gameplay, but the marketing and the aesthetic make you feel pathetic for playing them.
Man, I really miss Senri Kita's character designs from Path of Radiance. It's so jarring seeing the current stuff after that.
 

Lime

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A significant portion of male gamers have made it abundantly clear that they refuse to listen to women and instead would rather have their dicks get hard than make games an inclusive, non-misogynist space. After years of open public misogyny, male gamers still want to dominate and exclude, because virtual tits and ass is more important than the well-being of other people. Thousands of personal testimonies, decades of academic research, and hundreds of well-written thinkpieces and feature articles have all proven and shown the misogyny in games culture. But nothing happens and we are still in the same position as before.

And if women still voice their experiences, they are met with harassment, doxxing, and silencing from the gamer nazi to the "I just want to discuss the validity of your personal experience" male gamer. And then you have the unaffected gamer on the sidelines who just wish 'they could go back to talking about games' , i.e. have women shut up.

I am personally done with giving any more reasonable doubt to posters who "just want to debate" while we have rampant misogyny in video games industry and culture and people fear for their safety. People's life experiences is not up to debate and it's not funny or an intellectual exercise, it's everyday sexism reproduced over and over again that hurts and marginalizes. And yes, the overall amount of 'your' video game waifus designed to get your dick hard implicitly foster alienating spaces, whether you like it or not.
 

Chopchop

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Oct 25, 2017
7,087
Good points. This is why I think Yoko Taro's "I just like girls" explanation for the outfits in Nier is refreshingly honest. He doesn't try to be high brow about it and just says it plainly. He comes across as a lot more likeable for it.

And the funny thing is that as sexy designs go, I think the outfits in that game actually look pretty cool too. They're not like some stereotypically bad sexy designs where some guy obviously just tried to find stupid excuses to show skin and result in outfits that are revealing, but look stupid because they are uncoordinated messes.

I agree that sexy designs are not inherently bad. But I do agree that the vast majority of them, and their implementations are embarrassingly juvenile and don't do any favors for the reputation of video games being anything but a boy's club.
 

Principate

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Oct 31, 2017
7,860
One problem that it happens is when, a product, starts to focusing on women and giving them spotlight, its often mocked or shamed, which is fucking cool because I cant have hot boys but I have too many hot girls at this point
Yeah it's hilarious transparent. Pretty guys make and general female orientated fanservice makes certain sections of the male audience uncomfortable. But we can't have that can we! And how dare they take our scantily clad female characters!

Thankfully in some respect money talk so there will be a shift but there'll be plenty of kicking and screaming as it occurs.
 

fourfourfun

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Oct 27, 2017
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what about male characters? They are straight up jacked, shredded, coming out of marvel comic books.
There was that meme from the midpoint of the 360/PS3 generation which put a whole bunch of leading games males in a grid, and it was literally like a copy paste - the empty ideal voice for every white dude to slip into who wants to be "badass".
 

luulubuu

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Good points. This is why I think Yoko Taro's "I just like girls" explanation for the outfits in Nier is refreshingly honest. He doesn't try to be high brow about it and just says it plainly. He comes across as a lot more likeable for it.

And the funny thing is that as sexy designs go, I think the outfits in that game actually look pretty cool too. They're not like some stereotypically bad sexy designs where some guy obviously just tried to find stupid excuses to show skin and result in outfits that are revealing, but look stupid because they are uncoordinated messes.
I mean sure, I prefer that than other stuff, 2B and the other androids look, in my opinion, more "extra" and badass than sexy.

2B is by far the most erotic one, but I like her better than the rest.

Still, I think the game wasn't directly promoted by the butt thing but it was highly praised at first? Is that okay, though?
 

LightEntite

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Oct 26, 2017
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User was warned: do not come in a thread about women's voices to immediately dismiss women's voices and talk about "dudes complaining"
TBH I hear dudes complaining about sexualized designs wayyyyy more than women.

And most of the cosplayers I know will actively flock to those designs way quicker than any others.

It may be bad in practice, but people seem to enjoy it regardless.

Gladio is kind of an eye candy, especially his LC outfit, but doesn't reach the trash tier that Cindy is.
Gladio is at minimum just as bad as Cindy. The dude is wearing black leather pants with a leather jacket and no shirt.

I switched his outfit to alternate almost immediately.
 

Musubi

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Oct 25, 2017
6,259
Personally, I don't think horny design is inherently bad. I think the problem arises when that is the only kind of design that is out there. I think that is getting better these days tbh. There is much more variety in games out there these days. Its probably still not at the level of diversity it needs to be at but we are getting there. Also, biggest thing is just fucking be honest about it.

I think the main problem with Quiet vs lets say 2B in Nier is Taro is pretty up front about his design intentions with 2B where as Kojima obfuscates Quiet behind layers of bullshit arguments telling us "no actually there is a really good reason why she's nearly naked all the time".
 

Skade

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Oct 28, 2017
3,993
TBF it goes both ways you don't see anywhere near the same amount of female orientated fanservice as in some Japanese games anywhere in any retail western game. Female orientated fanserice generally does not exists. The difference is in japan that's still reasonably niche in games but common as fuck in manga/and becoming more common in anime. So all you generally see is ludicrous female objectification. It won't be going away anytime soon but there does seem to be surge in female operated works and more and more companies recognise the power the yen female otaku's have.

The best case scenario your going to see is a bit more equal opportunity ludicrious objectification.
Let's hope then. But i don't think it will really change anytime soon.
 
Oct 25, 2017
712
It's a fantasy image still aimed at heterosexual males though. The muscle freak design of men in gaming isn't done as an equal opportunities chance to ogle.
Yeah exactly. Characters like that aren't put in there so female players can ogle over them like male players are supposed to for skimpy female characters. They're there as like the peak idea of what a male players wishes they looked like. It's all in service of making dudes feel cool.
 

Principate

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Oct 31, 2017
7,860
TBH I hear dudes complaining about sexualized designs wayyyyy more than women.

And most of the cosplayers I know will actively flock to those designs way quicker than any others.

It may be bad in practice, but people seem to enjoy it regardless.



Gladio is at minimum just as bad as Cindy. The dude is wearing black leather pants with a leather jacket and no shirt.

I switched his outfit to alternate almost immediately.
He's no more sexualized than dante is!
 

fourfourfun

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Oct 27, 2017
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TBH I hear dudes complaining about sexualized designs wayyyyy more than women.
The enthusiast space is a very male dominated space (in a lot of places - electronic music, gear, have this sort of struggle too). It gets talked about more now as we are being encouraged to listen to more voices than just those that are facsimiles of our own.

The biggest thing is the phenomenon of the pushback "this thing that isn't about me is completely overblown imo and we should not discuss it and actively fight it because it'll probably make things worse just for me".
 

sugarless

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Nov 2, 2017
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Most of the time, it's because writers and designers just don't know how to create a female character. *snip for quote length*
Thank you for this, really interesting stuff. It probably also applies to how straight, usually male writers approach adding a gay character to a story, since heterosexuality likely even more of a "default" assumption than male gender.
 

luulubuu

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TBH I hear dudes complaining about sexualized designs wayyyyy more than women.



Gladio is at minimum just as bad as Cindy. The dude is wearing black leather pants with a leather jacket and no shirt.

I switched his outfit to alternate almost immediately.


Cindy, every morning - Yeah, I think just my undies, with maybe a cap, shorts no bigger than my undies and a jacket just barely closed is a good choice.

But... Yeah, let me just wear the same jacket but with belly showing but..what if I get cold? THAT'S IT. GLOVES.

But my legs might get cold too, what if I just wear normal pants or an uniform...?

NO

High tights and white boots, I love wearing white boots in such a clean job as a mechanic.
 

Maculo

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Oct 27, 2017
172
Madrid, Spain
For many publishers teenage boys are main target and what sells games to them better than boobs. This is sad and I don’t think it will end soon. It’s all about money
I'm not sure that's the reason to be honest. I get that 'some' teenagers won't complain if there are boobs in their games, but probably that's not the reason that would make them buy a game. If a teenager buys MGSV is for the tactical-espionage setting, not because of Quiet wearing a bikini....I don't think the game would have sell less if she was wearing a more appropriate dressing given the setting.
 
Oct 27, 2017
96
User was warned: unprovoked personal attacks
A significant portion of male gamers have made it abundantly clear that they refuse to listen to women and instead would rather have their dicks get hard than make games an inclusive, non-misogynist space. After years of open public misogyny, male gamers still want to dominate and exclude, because virtual tits and ass is more important than the well-being of other people. Thousands of personal testimonies, decades of academic research, and hundreds of well-written thinkpieces and feature articles have all proven and shown the misogyny in games culture. But nothing happens and we are still in the same position as before.

And if women still voice their experiences, they are met with harassment, doxxing, and silencing from the gamer nazi to the "I just want to discuss the validity of your personal experience" male gamer. And then you have the unaffected gamer on the sidelines who just wish 'they could go back to talking about games' , i.e. have women shut up.

I am personally done with giving any more reasonable doubt to posters who "just want to debate" while we have rampant misogyny in video games industry and culture and people fear for their safety. People's life experiences is not up to debate and it's not funny or an intellectual exercise, it's everyday sexism reproduced over and over again that hurts and marginalizes. And yes, the overall amount of 'your' video game waifus designed to get your dick hard implicitly foster alienating spaces, whether you like it or not.
Well aren't you just open minded? The good news is that you can vote with your wallet and not buy games you deem sexist or misogynistic. You can write or tweet at developers or publishers who you deem to be perpetuating things you do not like; let them know they lost a sale. Personally, I do not want any sexualized anything in my video games, but to approach this with such a closed-minded attitude seems counter-intuitive to me. Good luck changing minds with that kind of attitude toward debate.
 

luulubuu

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Yeah it's hilarious transparent. Pretty guys make and general female orientated fanservice makes certain sections of the male audience uncomfortable. But we can't have that can we! And how dare they take our scantily clad female characters!

Thankfully in some respect money talk so there will be a shift but there'll be plenty of kicking and screaming as it occurs.
I can't believe that my conception of a bright future is a mainstream, well written piece of media which is not shamed and has a large budget with sexually appealing characters of any gender and any body shape.

It totally replaced flying cars at this point.
 

Ferrs

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Oct 26, 2017
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TBH I hear dudes complaining about sexualized designs wayyyyy more than women.

And most of the cosplayers I know will actively flock to those designs way quicker than any others.

It may be bad in practice, but people seem to enjoy it regardless.



Gladio is at minimum just as bad as Cindy. The dude is wearing black leather pants with a leather jacket and no shirt.

I switched his outfit to alternate almost immediately.
Even though I did the same as you, changing Gladio's custome because it was pretty bad, I can't agree at him and Cindy being equal. I mean, she has the jacket open just enough to show her tits, she has small as fuck hot pants, she even shows her panties, wear high thighs.... it's in another league IMO.

EDIT: Beaten by Luulubuu.
 
Oct 25, 2017
712
I'm not sure that's the reason to be honest. I get that 'some' teenagers won't complain if there are boobs in their games, but probably that's not the reason that would make them buy a game. If a teenager buys MGSV is for the tactical-espionage setting, not because of Quiet wearing a bikini....I don't think the game would have sell less if she was wearing a more appropriate dressing given the setting.
Quiet was very heavily featured in the marketing for MGSV, if I remember right.
 

Principate

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Oct 31, 2017
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I'm not sure that's teh reason to be honest. I get that 'some' teenagers won't complain if there are boobs in their games, but probably that's not the reason that would make them buy a game. If a teenager buys MGSV is for the tactical-espionage setting, not because of Quiet wearing a bikini....
I mean Japanese games by in large aren't as popular as most western orientated and there's no it's partly due to this stigma. Outside of Overwatch most of the biggest games don't lean into female fanservice in that sort of way. Even in japan this is true. Such blantant fanservice is usually relegated to much niche games. Most nintendo games are devoid of it and they have the majority of the biggest IP's in Japan. Even from third parties most don't tend to lean into it too much.
 

Deleted member 25108

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I really have no horse in this race, feminism has never been my problem, unless it's tied to race issues which is something I do feel strongly about.

But that all being said, I just don't see the fucking point of sexualisation in games. Clearly it has a rabid audience, but as a male I just can't see the appeal of digital boobs. Bayonetta is no more sexy a character than Ahloy is. I care no more for Chloes ass or laura crofts boobs as I do Mario's nipples.

I feel that sexy character design is just something designers do because it's something they have always done. We could cut away all the boob armour and ass shots in the industry tomorrow and only a vocal minority would even notice.
 

CptPusheen

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I'm not sure that's teh reason to be honest. I get that 'some' teenagers won't complain if there are boobs in their games, but probably that's not the reason that would make them buy a game. If a teenager buys MGSV is for the tactical-espionage setting, not because of Quiet wearing a bikini....
It’s not selling in literal sense but rather making it more attractive for target audience. For sure all those sexualized characters aren’t there for artistic reasons
 
Oct 30, 2017
672
I mean 9 times out of 10, any explanation isn't the actual reason they did it. The actual reason is almost always just "I'm horny and my fans are too". Any bullshit lore justification is an after the fact thing they come up with after being criticized.
Thats true, they have no issue with it. The excuse is for people with the issue. I agree, they should just be straight up. No need for excuses or apologies.
 

Cid

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Oct 27, 2017
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Cindy, every morning - Yeah, I think just my undies, with maybe a cap, shorts no bigger than my undies and a jacket just barely closed is a good choice.

But... Yeah, let me just wear the same jacket but with belly showing but..what if I get cold? THAT'S IT. GLOVES.

But my legs might get cold too, what if I just wear normal pants or an uniform...?

NO

High tights and white boots, I love wearing white boots in such a clean job as a mechanic.

What are you doing?
It’s a rpg
It’s not supposed to make real sense like in the real world
The clothing is never sufficient for all the situations in any game
 

Zutrax

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Oct 31, 2017
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I completely understand your point of view, but I am not able to empathize with it at all. Though, I'm a man so there's the overlying reason for sure.

It's entirely possible that I am naive, ignorant, or somewhat shallow, but I've never had a problem with it when men are objectified in medium created for and by women and always found it to be a bit amusing to see it done since since everything we view is fictional and we aren't genuinely objectifying people, just characterized concepts of people which I feel if people are capable of differentiating things like violence in games and violence in real life they can do the same about how they treat the opposite sex as well. I feel like people who will objectify individuals in real life were already predisposed to the idea of doing so through societal teachings and that games objectifying women only really reinforces it but not introduces it to them. I always felt it was a matter of teaching people right from wrong, which are parents and teachers jobs (frankly I feel a course in avoiding and identifying objectification in sex ed would be a fantastic thing).

For instance, as a straight male who is friends with a lot of women who are anime fans, I very often sat around and watched tons of pretty boy anime/yaoi anime where the characters are mostly men who tend to often lose their clothing or sexually tease one another and I just laugh along and buy into it because it's all just absurdity.

I'm sure there's some fallacious points to my statements, I'm not really claiming to be right just laying down my view on the subject and why I am not bothered by the content. Obviously women are treated much more poorly in real life than men so the reinforcement in media probably just adds to the problem instead of helping it. But I just always felt like if the shoe was on the other foot I genuinely wouldn't mind, because I found that frequently being surrounded by half naked men in my media to just be motivating for me to do things like work out and lose weight, etc. I probably just perceive and handle the idea of it much different than other people, and I accept that it's probably not the normal point of view as people can easily misconstrue and latch on to unhealthy ideas and concepts very easily.
 

luulubuu

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Who do you think they had in mind when designing them?
Probably just Nomura and power fantasy, Gladio and most of the crew is just a cool gang of hip dudes, one is buffy and proud of it, and that's about it. There's nothing flirty or sexual about Gladio, he is just strong.
 

RoyalFool

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Oct 25, 2017
133
Games, like much of society, treat women as a sexual currency. But I do feel it's getting better slowly now it's been established men don't actually mind playing strong female lead characters. Overwatch, the recent uncharted spinoff.. there is a growing list of games which get this right and set a good example for future games to follow

Unfortunately some aspects of it, such as women wearing only boob armour has probably been the norm for so long, some folk probably think it's historically accurate at this point.
 

Finale Fireworker

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I also hope we still get characters like Cindy or Quiet. Sometimes you just want that kind of entertainment
The single greatest failing with Quiet is that Metal Gear Solid used to write incredible roles for women, especially relative to the years they came out. They were data analysts, they were spies, they scientists, they were doctors, they were soldiers, they were weapons experts, and they had goals and ambitions and purpose beyond titillation. Metal Gear Solid, the first game in particular, wrote the kinds of female characters you couldn't find anywhere else in gaming. While there were still sexy characters like Sniper Wolf, they were not without their characterizations and they were counterbalanced by a large cast of well-written women.

As the series went on, these kinds of roles decreased. They were written out or given to men. By the time we get to Metal Gear Solid V, the most prominent (and one of the only) female characters in the game is a nearly-nude honey pot who literally does not speak. She is there to be seen, not heard. In a story about soldiers and corruption and dark actualization of wartime politics, the lead female is relegated to slinking around in the rain. Nothing about her design is justified or makes sense in the context of the story and it sends a message. It tells women that these stories are not for you. They're for boys. While all the male characters are there to tell a meaningful story, Quiet is there to crawl around in a bathing suit.

So yeah, of course Kojima can tell a story about whatever he wants. There aren't rules about what kinds of stories people should tell. But it reflects poorly on Kojima that this is his idea of a meaningful female character that will make us "ashamed of our words and deeds." It's embarrassing. I don't fault you for liking Quiet. Quiet exists, she's out there, like her or not. But it's very unfortunate that a series once famous for women in STEM now focuses on sex objects who can't talk.
 
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EMGESP

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It's just buisness to the publishers/developers. If they feel their target demographic are Men in the 18 - 35 yrs old bracket then they will do things you might not agree with to cater to them. Its no secret that Men are highly sexual beings that like the sight of beautiful women. At the end of the day games aren't real and Male characters tend to get stereotyped as well. There are still plenty of games that depict women in the way you'd like to see, so just try and ignore games that don't fit within your standards. I don't think devs should be forced to change their characters because of a vocal minority gets offended. I believe in full artistic creative freedom. I might not agree with every choice devs/publishers make, but different strokes for different folks as they say.
 

SolidSnakex

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Oct 25, 2017
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Probably just Nomura and power fantasy, Gladio and most of the crew is just a cool gang of hip dudes, one is buffy and proud of it, and that's about it. There's nothing flirty or sexual about Gladio, he is just strong.
I think his redesign says otherwise. For example, Gladiolus started out like this



And ended up like this



I'd say the change in direction is obvious. It's not as if Square are oblivious to the fact that FF has a very large female following.
 

Kinthey

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Oct 27, 2017
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Probably just Nomura and power fantasy, Gladio and most of the crew is just a cool gang of hip dudes, one is buffy and proud of it, and that's about it. There's nothing flirty or sexual about Gladio, he is just strong.
Power fantasy? Really? They straight up look like a J-pop band who are targeting a female demographic.
 

Busaiku

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Oct 25, 2017
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While I agree with you on that (and that's one of the reasons that saved the franchise, for good or worse) Echoes: Shadows of Valentia, of the 3 Fire Emblem 3DS games, has better design for the female characters than either Fates or Awakening. That said, how they treat many of the female characters as damsel in distress is disappointing, but that's a topic for another day.
And this.
 

Weltall Zero

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Oct 26, 2017
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Infinitely thank you Persephone for this thread, and FInale Fireworker for his usual insightful input.
Also to other posters, if you're going to drive-by post arguments that have been made to death, like "sex sells" or "artistic freedom", at least put a bit more thought to it.

TBH I hear dudes complaining about sexualized designs wayyyyy more than women.
It's almost as if women were less numerous in videogame message boards, and also tired to death of saying the same things over and over and being ignored (case in point, you just entirely ignored Persephone with a "lol white knights" argument).

10 years ago you wouldn't have seen a AAA game headed up by a character like Ellie
23 years ago, one of the highest-budget and best-selling games made had a female main character for its first half and another female main character for its second half; they looked like this:




Contrast and compare with FFXV and tell me again about progress.
 
Oct 25, 2017
712
The single greatest failing with Quiet is that Metal Gear Solid used to write incredible roles for women, especially relative to the years they came out. They were data analysts, they were spies, they scientists, they were doctors, they were soldiers, they were weapons experts, and they had goals and ambitious and purpose beyond titillation. Metal Gear Solid, the first game in particular, wrote the kinds of female characters you couldn't find anywhere else in gaming. While there were still sexy characters like Sniper Wolf, they were not without their characterizations and they were counterbalanced by a large cast of well-written women.

As the series went on, these kinds of roles decreased. They were written out or given to men. By the time we get to Metal Gear Solid V, the most prominent (and one of the only) female characters in the game is a nearly-nude honey pot who literally does not speak. She is there to be seen, not heard. In a story about soldiers and corruption and dark actualization of wartime politics, the lead female is relegated to slinking around in the rain. Nothing about her design is justified or makes sense in the context of the story and it sends a message. It tells women that these stories are not for you. They're for boys. While all the male characters are there to tell a meaningful story, Quiet is there to crawl around in a bathing suit.

So yeah, of course Kojima can tell a story about whatever he wants. There aren't rules about what kinds of stories people should tell. But it reflects poorly on Kojima that this is his idea of a meaningful female character that will make us "ashamed of our words and deeds." It's embarrassing. I don't fault you for liking Quiet. Quiet exists, she's out there, like her or not. But it's very unfortunate that a series once famous for women in STEM now focuses on sex objects who can't talk.
Yeah, everyone immediately jumps to "BUT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO DO THAT" when someone criticizes stuff like that. I don't think many people are trying to say Kojima isn't allowed to make bad designs. Games can be art, so when people like Kojima just use them as vessels for their weird fantasies like a horny kid, it's disappointing.
 

Bán

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Oct 27, 2017
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I really have no horse in this race, feminism has never been my problem, unless it's tied to race issues which is something I do feel strongly about.

But that all being said, I just don't see the fucking point of sexualisation in games. Clearly it has a rabid audience, but as a male I just can't see the appeal of digital boobs. Bayonetta is no more sexy a character than Ahloy is. I care no more for Chloes ass or laura crofts boobs as I do Mario's nipples.

I feel that sexy character design is just something designers do because it's something they have always done. We could cut away all the boob armour and ass shots in the industry tomorrow and only a vocal minority would even notice.
The point is that it's just eye candy, and people like eye candy.

Horizon is a great example. One of the key appeals of that game was that wherever I went, I saw something mindblowingly spectacular. Typically it was a landscape, but sometimes it was a massive robot dinosaur or huge city on a pillar etc. No matter what it was, though, each time I saw something like that promoted this little dopamine rush of 'Whoa! Fucking look at THAT'. And that pulls you through the game. It's the whole reason I played it. I think a ton of us on here would understand this experience.

Well, for me and many others, seeing gorgeous women in games is the exact same. It's that same little dopamine rush of 'Whoa! Look at THAT' and your brain signalling 'Yeah, I like that a whole lot.' It's that same feedback loop, really. And there's nothing wrong with appreciating the beauty of the opposite sex in that way.

None of that is to say that we should be stuffing sexualised designs in games where they don't fit or where they interfere with the tone of the game or where they alienate a huge amount of the audience. It's just explaining why they're there.
 

Lime

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Well aren't you just open minded? The good news is that you can vote with your wallet and not buy games you deem sexist or misogynistic. You can write or tweet at developers or publishers who you deem to be perpetuating things you do not like; let them know they lost a sale. Personally, I do not want any sexualized anything in my video games, but to approach this with such a closed-minded attitude seems counter-intuitive to me. Good luck changing minds with that kind of attitude toward debate.
1. People can express themselves moreso than with their money. We are not just walking wallets who only exist by virtue of the currency we spend on products. Why do you think we are posting on a video games message board? We are certainly doing something more than just expressing ourselves with currency - we are writing and sharing opinions and arguments with one another.

2. I don't see how I am the closeminded one, when I am addressing the people who refuse to listen and refuse to acknowledge the personal experiences, the academic research, the feature articles that emphasize the misogyny in games culture. I am sorry if I am drawing a line in the sand, but after listening to the same old broken record for years if not decades by thickheaded dudes with their privileged penises I am just too tired of entertaining their refusal to listen, acknowledge, and learn.
 

Pirate Bae

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4,368
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It's just buisness to the publishers/developers. If they feel their target demographic are Men in the 18 - 35 yrs old bracket then they will do things you might not agree with to cater to them. Its no secret that Men are highly sexual beings that like the sight of beautiful women. At the end of the day games aren't real and Male characters tend to get stereotyped as well. There are still plenty of games that depict women in the way you'd like to see, so just try and ignore games that don't fit within your standards. I don't think devs should be forced to change their characters because of a vocal minority gets offended. I believe in full artistic creative freedom. I might not agree with every choice devs/publishers make, but different strokes for different folks as they say.
That's all well and good, but the underlying issue is that female sexualization in gaming is a direct reflection on societal expectations, standards, and its treatment of women. Saying "they can make whatever they want to appeal to the consumer" is not enough, because it's more than just a fictional world.

Games need to take a hard stance on the issue, and there need to be more strong, non-sexual female protagonists to change societal views on the subject.
 

rochellepaws

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,159
Ireland
One of my main complaints about the recent Fire Emblems, Fates especially. Take both Corrin for example, the male one is completely fine while female Corrin's armor has her showing her tights. Same with both of her promotions. And there are others worse like Camilla, Sophie, Effie when she promotes to general... and many others.

It is of bad taste what they are doing, objectifying these female character so horny young males can take pleasure using them. Sadly, I doubt this will stop anytime soon.
This kind of stuff creeping into long standing series without a history of sexualisation is what really bothers me. I don't have any issue with games like Senran Kagura existing, they're open and honest on what they are and the kind of audience they're looking for but please, please, please don't start tarnishing existing franchises with something so cheap and tacky. The changing representation of Samus in smash bros is another example in giving her highly impractical footwear for bounty hunting.
 
Oct 25, 2017
712
Gladio was just as bad as Cindy, only he was around for like 90% of the time. I don't know why the Prince's bodyguard needs to walk around without a shirt, one would think some armor or more official attire would be used.

It's not just female characters, they just tend to get more ridiculous outfits more often. But all the tall, powerful, handsome looking male protagonists are also objectified.

Hell, even Mario is objectified in Odyssey!





It's sickening.
First off, that's not objectification. It's just a dude in a bathing suit. It would be objectification if he had like a glistening sweaty body, was posing suggestively, and had some clearly defined bulge. That's just Mario with no shirt. If anything, it's supposed to be comedic.

And Gladio isn't "just as bad" as Cindy. You can see his muscles, but so what. He doesn't have an inappropriate design, he just looks "cool". He's the strong guy, he's a fighter, he does cool shit the whole game. Cindy isn't like that. Every scene with her, she's contorted in some suggestive manner and dressed like a pin-up girl. She's never really shown to be strong, she's just eye candy.
 

Chaos17

Member
Oct 27, 2017
649
France
I mean, it sells. Especially in Japan, where this trope is insanely prevalent. I also feel like most games' target audience (especially over there) is teen or young adult boys. Sex sells, especially when you're targeting it at a demographic that's going to buy it in a place where it's prevalent.
Not only in Japan, I've played enough mmorpgs to know that guys like to play female characters because they're more pleasing for the eyes than the males characters.
Why ?
They find it annoying to look like tin cans all the time while women have a more diversified wardrobe and haircuts.
 
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