Playing Fire Emblem Heroes on the way to work this morning. More obvious comments on Loki's outfit and her bizarrely shaped breasts aside, I think we can file her belt buckle in the 'costumes likely to disembowel the wearer' category. Also, isn't the point of a buckle that the belt is actually a strip of leather with two ends rather than a hoop? She needs some new terms of affection too, I'd always pictured Loki as a verbose, eloquent entity rather than one to repeat the same term twice in a dozen words.
I sniggered at 'skip' in the corner. Yes please, I'd like a new villain.
In fairness the actress for Pyra really sells her obliviliousness in the scene quite well. I really wish her design wasn't so ridiculous because I like everything else about her..
Some like chapter 4, some don't. (there is one really dumb scene in chapter 4 i guess, that and the one with the weight were the dumbest in the game. But they are short, and in the end still pretty harmless, i rolled my eyes and moved on. you could just sell the game though if you regret your preorder.
I just feel like this'll be the turning point. Much like FFX was for me and my love for the series. I thought the story was ridiculous, I was disappointed by the lack of exploration, disappointing final boss, etc. I got through it, but I thought if they make another FF like that, I'm out. I really liked XII because I love Tactics and Matsuno, but when XIII came out and was being described as "X but worse" I had officially given up on the series. XC2 feels like I'm in the same position as I was with FFX. I'd totally throw down for an X sequel, but if I see XC3 with another Pyra, I'm out.
At least the clothes tearing for FEH is sorta tamer then other Gatcha games. Anyone remember how the Bomber game had the girls in tears with the only clothing left was to cover up naughty bits?
I watched a clip about that "Blushy-Crushy" thing, I have very little idea what it was about. But damn, the writing in that game is so juvenile and straight up bad.
The problem with XB2 is that the game is trying to have its cake and eat it too.
There's a later heart-to-heart after chapter 4, it features the new party member and their blade chastising Tora for wanting to dress Poppi like a bunny or something (with the excuse of, "It helps her defense.") And one of the options leads to the newly joined blade burning Tora as punishment.
I watched a clip about that "Blushy-Crushy" thing, I have very little idea what it was about. But damn, the writing in that game is so juvenile and straight up bad.
They definitely dialed down the target age group from that of previous Xeno games. And, in all fairness, I think it worked, if other threads praising the characters/plot are anything to go by. The reality is that this sort of stuff - safe, predictable, light - attracts a bigger audience. The fanservice doesn't hurt, either, since that target demographic either doesn't seem to care, or actively enjoys it :/
I've kinda made my peace with it now, I think. The story/tone I'd like isn't going to happen, so I may as well go all in on writing it myself!
I feel that the video games medium as a whole is at a turning point. It's about to step out of its adolescence and entering adulthood. This shift is taking a long time though, and is needlessly being hindered especially by Western male bro and Japanese otaku culture.
All the people critizicing games for their depiction of women as sex objects and dependence on men (but also the depiction of men as muscular alphas incapable of expressing complex emotions) truly are the frontrunners of this transition.
I hope that the video game medium grows up soon, for our sake but also for the sake of children playing these games and integrating the games' lessons into the construction of their world views.
I fear that it is going to take a long time. Music, TV, Movies, all forms of media relay on tropes and those die hard. I don't think that video games are worse than other forms of media, in fact games might be a tad more self aware.
I know most people here aren't familiar with the character but! https://twitter.com/po_po_cco/status/958064870397829125
I really love this outfit redesign for Kasuga I stumbled across on Twitter. It definitely still fits her characterization while removing the unneeded sexualization. It's really cute too.
So, i got to admit, I'm impressed with FE Heroes Valentine's day Heroes. All of them are wearing full outfits. Granted, it's still not battle ready but at least they aren't exposing themselves for titillation this time.
So, i got to admit, I'm impressed with FE Heroes Valentine's day Heroes. All of them are wearing full outfits. Granted, it's still not battle ready but at least they aren't exposing themselves for titillation this time.
Yeah, Roy and Lyn look about 12 but the costumes themselves are still pretty cool. Hector 'just here to fight' in ladykiller mode, in both senses of the word! :D
I feel that the video games medium as a whole is at a turning point. It's about to step out of its adolescence and entering adulthood. This shift is taking a long time though, and is needlessly being hindered especially by Western male bro and Japanese otaku culture.
All the people critizicing games for their depiction of women as sex objects and dependence on men (but also the depiction of men as muscular alphas incapable of expressing complex emotions) truly are the frontrunners of this transition.
I hope that the video game medium grows up soon, for our sake but also for the sake of children playing these games and integrating the games' lessons into the construction of their world views.
Im sorry to jump in oddly but I'm not sure about this.
Video games are entertainment, not education. Yes games can be art, but as with movies the true trend setting and high selling games will be purely entertainment.
People have to learn from each other, from social bonds, to learn what's right and wrong and acceptable within peoples tolerances and beliefs. I don't form my life desires off of GTA or FFVII and I don't model myself off of H-man or Barbie.
Companies don't have to conform to some higher standards of, if they aren't breaking a law then they have every right to try to make games based on selling trends and popular desires.
What was it, 15 million people. 15 million people wanted to shoot, steal and kill online this year when GTA V outsold pretty much any single franchise this year. Not even a NEW gta, the same one that's been out for years. Not my desired game but good on those people, they are getting their escapism. That's what games are about.
Re: the blushy crushy thing. I don't know if it's necessarily otaku, I feel it's more generally east Asian of thinking girls should be cute and act like little kids. I had a 40 year old postdoctoral Chinese colleague who moved around like she was Poppi, flapping arms and strutting while walking and all.
Though maybe she was a Chinese otaku mother, I dunno.
Or it's just a coping mechanism for me to go "don't understand the culture" lol.
Blushy Crushy is also dumb because one of the options has pyra has doing it all oblivious like, which makes no sense. Its not like this character has never interacted with people before. Why would Pyra suddenly be oblivious to social interactions?
Even still, blushy Crushy isnt even the worst part. They make all sorts of remarks throughout the game that Tora designed poppi with all sorts of fetish modes and she is in the games very definition a child.
Xenoblade 2 injects sexualization into its females where ever it can, with only a handful making it out unscathed.
Video games are entertainment, not education. Yes games can be art, but as with movies the true trend setting and high selling games will be purely entertainment.
Ok? This doesn't negate their problematic aspects.
People have to learn from each other, from social bonds, to learn what's right and wrong and acceptable within peoples tolerances and beliefs. I don't form my life desires off of GTA or FFVII and I don't model myself off of H-man or Barbie.
People don't just learn from other people. They also learn from what they're exposed to. We normalize behaviors and situations when they are constantly presented to us, even if they are not specifically presenting the problem.
For example: why are beauty standards what they are? The easiest and likely most reasonable response to this is, because culture dictates what is beautiful to us (you could simplify it even more and say "because I like it" but that doesn't really tell us anything and it's not a defense from criticism). In different eras and locations, beauty standards are extremely different from what they are here and now. Cultural standards change, and with them, the trends surrounding them.
To summarize: We are a product of our culture in a larger sense, not just the people we interact with.
Companies don't have to conform to some higher standards of, if they aren't breaking a law then they have every right to try to make games based on selling trends and popular desires.
No, they don't. We aren't saying they have to. We are voicing our concern with decisions they are making. Those decisions have consequences.
What was it, 15 million people. 15 million people wanted to shoot, steal and kill online this year when GTA V outsold pretty much any single franchise this year. Not even a NEW gta, the same one that's been out for years. Not my desired game but good on those people, they are getting their escapism. That's what games are about.
The whole "video games and anime aren't real and nobody in the real world would be influenced by them" spiel falls kinda flat in the face of selfie beautification filters pushing further and further into "make yourself look like a cartoon character" territory...
People have to learn from each other, from social bonds, to learn what's right and wrong and acceptable within peoples tolerances and beliefs. I don't form my life desires off of GTA or FFVII and I don't model myself off of H-man or Barbie.
If you believe the media you consumed as a child didn't inform your morals, not to put a fine point on it, you are wrong. And to a lesser extent, this is an ongoing process with adults too. Human behavior learning is fundamentally imitative, and while we may differentiate between reality and fiction on a conscious level, our subconscious is nowhere near as selective. Saying "well I played GTA and I'm not a killer" is as ridiculous a strawman as the peanut butter argument.
I find it funny how people making this impermeability argument never fail to say "my morals weren't informed by fiction", not "our morals", implying that anyone refuting them may be instead revealing themselves to be more influenceable than them.
I find it funny how people making this impermeability argument never fail to say "my morals weren't informed by fiction", not "our morals", implying that anyone refuting them may be instead revealing themselves to be more influenceable than them.
Yeah, Roy and Lyn look about 12 but the costumes themselves are still pretty cool. Hector 'just here to fight' in ladykiller mode, in both senses of the word! :D
These are honestly so great. This is exactly what fanservice in Fire Emblem should be like: beloved characters wearing cute yet tasteful and dignified outfits that actually had some thought and care put into their design, not your older sister with her tits hanging out or a 12 year old wearing a slutty Halloween outfit. Those should be beneath Nintendo, and they should be left to obscure devs making niche games for a handful of creeps, not one of the biggest software and hardware developers in the industry with a huge focus on family-friendly games.
Hell, compare Lilina and Lyn here to the Bridal Blessings characters. Lilina and Lyn are obviously wearing the same kind of dress here, but there's plenty of details in the patterns to differentiate the two and that are unique to them. The Bridal characters are all wearing pretty much the same generic white dress, with no attention to their character or where they come from.
Btw Roy, Lilina and Lyn are supposed to be fairly young (14, 14 and 15 iirc), so their appearances mostly make sense in that regard.
(Yes, Lyn is 15. Yes, she is one of the most fetishized characters in FE, but in the Western fandom's favor I'll say that her age was changed to 18 in the Western version of her game. This is a fact that I assume only the most dedicated fans know... and that they immediately disregard in order to keep fetishizing her).
Honestly the only outright bad part about this banner is ship warriors arguing about Hector/Lyn and Eliwood/Lyn or whatever. stfu
shoves all my orbs in Hector's cleavage like he's a stripper
So, i got to admit, I'm impressed with FE Heroes Valentine's day Heroes. All of them are wearing full outfits. Granted, it's still not battle ready but at least they aren't exposing themselves for titillation this time.
Hate to be kind of the negative ninny here, but how far we've fallen when "Nintendo made costumes for females without their tits out" is a cause for celebration. :D
Hate to be kind of the negative ninny here, but how far we've fallen when "Nintendo made costumes for females without their tits out" is a cause for celebration. :D
On the bright side, I am happy that Sega still owe the right to Puyo Puyo instead of Compile Heart. Or else we'd see Puyo Puyo with lolis too. Not that Sega didnt have fanservice in some games, eg Fighting Vipers2
I know most people here aren't familiar with the character but! https://twitter.com/po_po_cco/status/958064870397829125
I really love this outfit redesign for Kasuga I stumbled across on Twitter. It definitely still fits her characterization while removing the unneeded sexualization. It's really cute too.
Maybe I'm just a dumb guy who doesn't know fashion, but I just don't know how they expect breasts to stay put in an outfit like that, especially when fighting.
If I may follow your lead though, there's an artist I follow on Tumblr who made some nice redesigns for SNK Heroines recently I quite like.
I actually just witnessed the cutscene earlier today. Yeah, Tora is easily one of the worst JRPG character ever. I can't believe that there are people who consider Xenoblade 2's cast as 'Best JRPG Cast Ever'.
These are honestly so great. This is exactly what fanservice in Fire Emblem should be like: beloved characters wearing cute yet tasteful and dignified outfits that actually had some thought and care put into their design, not your older sister with her tits hanging out or a 12 year old wearing a slutty Halloween outfit. Those should be beneath Nintendo, and they should be left to obscure devs making niche games for a handful of creeps, not one of the biggest software and hardware developers in the industry with a huge focus on family-friendly games.
Hell, compare Lilina and Lyn here to the Bridal Blessings characters. Lilina and Lyn are obviously wearing the same kind of dress here, but there's plenty of details in the patterns to differentiate the two and that are unique to them. The Bridal characters are all wearing pretty much the same generic white dress, with no attention to their character or where they come from.
Btw Roy, Lilina and Lyn are supposed to be fairly young (14, 14 and 15 iirc), so their appearances mostly make sense in that regard.
(Yes, Lyn is 15. Yes, she is one of the most fetishized characters in FE, but in the Western fandom's favor I'll say that her age was changed to 18 in the Western version of her game. This is a fact that I assume only the most dedicated fans know... and that they immediately disregard in order to keep fetishizing her).
Honestly the only outright bad part about this banner is ship warriors arguing about Hector/Lyn and Eliwood/Lyn or whatever. stfu
shoves all my orbs in Hector's cleavage like he's a stripper
Hate to be kind of the negative ninny here, but how far we've fallen when "Nintendo made costumes for females without their tits out" is a cause for celebration. :D
These are honestly so great. This is exactly what fanservice in Fire Emblem should be like: beloved characters wearing cute yet tasteful and dignified outfits that actually had some thought and care put into their design, not your older sister with her tits hanging out or a 12 year old wearing a slutty Halloween outfit. Those should be beneath Nintendo, and they should be left to obscure devs making niche games for a handful of creeps, not one of the biggest software and hardware developers in the industry with a huge focus on family-friendly games.
Hell, compare Lilina and Lyn here to the Bridal Blessings characters. Lilina and Lyn are obviously wearing the same kind of dress here, but there's plenty of details in the patterns to differentiate the two and that are unique to them. The Bridal characters are all wearing pretty much the same generic white dress, with no attention to their character or where they come from.
Btw Roy, Lilina and Lyn are supposed to be fairly young (14, 14 and 15 iirc), so their appearances mostly make sense in that regard.
(Yes, Lyn is 15. Yes, she is one of the most fetishized characters in FE, but in the Western fandom's favor I'll say that her age was changed to 18 in the Western version of her game. This is a fact that I assume only the most dedicated fans know... and that they immediately disregard in order to keep fetishizing her).
Honestly the only outright bad part about this banner is ship warriors arguing about Hector/Lyn and Eliwood/Lyn or whatever. stfu
shoves all my orbs in Hector's cleavage like he's a stripper
Ok? This doesn't negate their problematic aspects.
For example: why are beauty standards what they are? The easiest and likely most reasonable response to this is, because culture dictates what is beautiful to us (you could simplify it even more and say "because I like it" but that doesn't really tell us anything and it's not a defense from criticism). In different eras and locations, beauty standards are extremely different from what they are here and now. Cultural standards change, and with them, the trends surrounding them.
To summarize: We are a product of our culture in a larger sense, not just the people we interact with.
No, they don't. We aren't saying they have to. We are voicing our concern with decisions they are making. Those decisions have consequences.
What do sales numbers have to do with escapism? And, why are you dictating what games are about? I'm not seeing how these are connected.
Also, just a few pages ago, we had this discussion about Senran Kagura and DoAX.
That's a fair point on fashion a lot of people are swayed by a huge marketing machine when it comes to fashion. But not everybody is effected by the marketing or cares how they look. That industry has its own problems but I get your point. I think mine may not have been clear...
Sales numbers. The original point that takriel was saying was that we may be on the verge of a huge change with the subject matter and scope of games, games growing up. With sales numbers like 15 million copy's sold, GTA stands as a huge obstacle to any idea of cultural shift. It's subject matter alone laughs in the face of such a notion, and it's sales numbers also show that a chunk of the people out there do too. It's unfortunate cause yeah it's going to influence some people but it's not place to police their thoughts or actions. If their life is so basic they take after a video game in adulthood, that's a sad tale of a wasted life. So be it.
That's not what I was interested in talking about. You do what you do, voice your opinions, for the most point there are so many great points in this thread. I was just saying I don't agree with or expect a culture revolution, a growing up of games, because of their entertainment nature. The point I was trying to make again, was that that kind of demand wont be going away and I guess I think we won't see games become art, or more cultured.
I was tired, I think I got off point when that was the point I was mostly trying to make. Should have just kept lurking, I'll see myself out now.
Hate to be kind of the negative ninny here, but how far we've fallen when "Nintendo made costumes for females without their tits out" is a cause for celebration. :D
Except that Nintendo don't design these things. You can say that about them permitting it but they or their employees of EPD don't do it. There's a reason for why their internal games don't have such things.
Except that Nintendo don't design these things. You can say that about them permitting it but they or their employees of EPD don't do it. There's a reason for why their internal games don't have such things.
You keep saying this like it makes any difference, like the only way something can be attributed to Nintendo is if it was made by Shigeru Miyamoto himself. These designs are official Nintendo material, they're commissioned by Nintendo, they have Nintendo's logo all over them, and, ultimately, they represent Nintendo.
That's a fair point on fashion a lot of people are swayed by a huge marketing machine when it comes to fashion. But not everybody is effected by the marketing or cares how they look. That industry has its own problems but I get your point. I think mine may not have been clear...
Unfortunately, everyone is affected by marketing, regardless of whether or not they want to be (or think they are or aren't).
Sales numbers. The original point that takriel was saying was that we may be on the verge of a huge change with the subject matter and scope of games, games growing up. With sales numbers like 15 million copy's sold, GTA stands as a huge obstacle to any idea of cultural shift. It's subject matter alone laughs in the face of such a notion, and it's sales numbers also show that a chunk of the people out there do too.
It's unfortunate cause yeah it's going to influence some people but it's not place to police their thoughts or actions. If their life is so basic they take after a video game in adulthood, that's a sad tale of a wasted life. So be it.
This... on the other hand, is a bit more questionable. I don't think anyone's making arguments about policing thoughts or actions. I also don't think people "take after a video game", because we aren't talking about people directly taking cues from them (no one is going out and randomly shooting people because they wanted to "play" GTA but in real life), but rather that they contribute to a certain culture (namely, those of objectification and sexual harassment as being "normal" - which leads to cultures where women are treated like second-classs citizens).
I was just saying I don't agree with or expect a culture revolution, a growing up of games, because of their entertainment nature. The point I was trying to make again, was that that kind of demand wont be going away and I guess I think we won't see games become art, or more cultured.
You keep saying this like it makes any difference, like the only way something can be attributed to Nintendo is if it was made by Shigeru Miyamoto himself. These designs are official Nintendo material, they're commissioned by Nintendo, they have Nintendo's logo all over them, and, ultimately, they represent Nintendo.
Of course it makes. It's not made by Nintendo internal teams, it's made by Intelligent Systems with collaboration of other invited designers. I even said that you can blame Nintendo for permitting it since they have a producer and a director in there allowing it but to say that Nintendo is making it is a stretch when it's not made by EPD designers. And like I said, there's a reason for why their internal made games don't have such things but only external partners since their internal focus on more kid-friendly characters.
Except that Nintendo don't design these things. You can say that about them permitting it but they or their employees of EPD don't do it. There's a reason for why their internal games don't have such things.
Which is why Xeno2 disappoints, even angers me so much. Yes, it's Monolith Soft, but they're not some third party contractor. Monolith Soft is owned by Nintendo and I have different expectations for them than I would a third party game simply published by Nintendo or a property Nintendo has licensed out. Then of course we have Fire Emblem core games, where there's no excuse for the creeper creep being some outside influence. It's internal and growing.
Which is why Xeno2 disappoints, even angers me so much. Yes, it's Monolith Soft, but they're not some third party contractor. Monolith Soft is owned by Nintendo and I have different expectations for them than I would a third party game simply published by Nintendo or a property Nintendo has licensed out. Then of course we have Fire Emblem core games, where there's no excuse for the creeper creep being some outside influence. It's internal and growing.
The relation of Monolith, Intelligent Systems and Nintendo is almost the same, with the difference that one is owned by Nintendo. These two even share the same Nintendo producer, who also does other RPG like Pokémon. Nintendo is related to all of these projects because they publish it and there's producers and directors in there (who are only part of external development, not internal since they're former SPD employes) but their internal games (ie EPD with Mario, Zelda, Splatoon, Pikmin, Animal Crossing, Arms and others) are a different beast.
And even if Monolith is owned by Nintendo, they're still a external company compared to their internal division, just like Retro, Nd Cube and 1-UP Studio. So you don't need to have such problem because these things will be only happening with their external developers.
Of course it makes. It's not made by Nintendo internal teams, it's made by Intelligent Systems with collaboration of other invited designers. I even said that you can blame Nintendo for permitting it since they have a producer and a director in there allowing it but to say that Nintendo is making it is a stretch when it's not made by EPD designers. And like I said, there's a reason for why their internal made games don't have such things but only external partners since their internal focus on more kid-friendly characters.
It makes only the most pedantic of differences when 1) IS has never developed a game for anything but Nintendo consoles, and 2) Nintendo treats every franchise by them as first party for all promotional intents and purposes. IS games have Nintendo's logo in their covers, not their own; the very existence of IS as a separate company is a mere anecdote that 99% of the public isn't aware of or cares about.
And in the case of Monolith the difference doesn't exist, even on this pedantic level. Frankly, I see zero point in splitting this hair unless you take preserving Nintendo's honor and child-friendly image more seriously than they themselves.
It makes only the most pedantic of differences when 1) IS has never developed a game for anything but Nintendo consoles, and 2) Nintendo treats every franchise by them as first party for all promotional intents and purposes. IS games have Nintendo's logo in their covers, not their own; the very existence of IS as a separate company is a mere anecdote that 99% of the public isn't aware of or cares about.
And in the case of Monolith the difference doesn't exist, even on this pedantic level. Frankly, I see zero point in splitting this hair unless you take preserving Nintendo's honor and child-friendly image more seriously than they themselves.
It's not about splitting hair with anything and I said that it's in their name either way because they publish it and these are their franchises in copyright and trademark along the developer like Fire Emblem. I never said otherwise. What I'm saying is that Nintendo, as a developer with it's internal developers of EPD, aren't making these designs. It's just it, not more and not less, it's not about being pedantic when it's what actually happens. I'm not saying that Nintendo isn't involved as a publisher, I'm saying that their employees aren't making these things.
At the same time, IS employees aren't Nintendo employees and that's what I'm saying. There's a reason for why Sakurai never worked at Nintendo even if he was part of Hal Laboratory and now is part of his own company.
Yeah, but these aren't working for them and they can't fire them. IS, Hal, Gamefreak and all of those are third party companies with their own board of directors, executives, chairman and CEO. With their internal studios they also have the same system but you can at least say that in that case they work for Nintendo. But my argument isn't it but the fact that internal Nintendo (EPD) is completely different than their external studios and third party partners, which is real and it shows. Nintendo as a publisher of course is part of all of them but my argument is about their internal development division just like Square Enix, Sega and Capcom have one and also have external companies owned by them.
I'd be willing to bet that if Nintendo wanted to fire somebody from a company they're largely funding, they could probably do it; for any reason or no reason at all.
Nintendo could pressure the second and third parties to fire someone, but they can't do it directly. They're largely autonomous entities with their own set of rules and regulations and Nintendo likes to keep it that way with minimal interference if any.
I'm not entirely convinced that 'anime news network' is going to be the most unbiased perspective when presenting news about Reddit banning pics of anime sexualised children as part of a crackdown on sexualised imagery of minors in general.
Btw Roy, Lilina and Lyn are supposed to be fairly young (14, 14 and 15 iirc), so their appearances mostly make sense in that regard.
(Yes, Lyn is 15. Yes, she is one of the most fetishized characters in FE, but in the Western fandom's favor I'll say that her age was changed to 18 in the Western version of her game. This is a fact that I assume only the most dedicated fans know... and that they immediately disregard in order to keep fetishizing her).
Nintendo of America likely did that because the North American version did this.
When they added new animations for each main lord's to the North American release, someone thought it was a good idea to add what can only be described as boob jiggling with Lyn's new animation for her regular attack with the Sol Katti. Honestly, I didn't even find out about it until I replayed Fire Emblem to capture footage to review Fates because Lyn always got a critical hit with the Sol Katti (weapon's high critical hit rate + supports + Lyn's naturally high skill easily give it a 50%+ chance).
Well, I was going to talk about another subject but first...
Another one of these. And yeah, it's amazing how if they're in their regular costumes their 2D portraits are happy but when they're in any of the alternative costumes (which...uggggggggghhhhhhhh) they're blushing as if embarrassed.
*sigh*
Edit: Also, yeah, the thumbnail isn't subtle at all.
